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View Full Version : I hope the offer to Ordonez is OFF THE TABLE


jabrch
07-23-2004, 05:13 PM
I wish no ills to Magglio. However, greed like his should not be rewarded with economic gain. Fewer players would turn down 13mm offers if Ordonez ends up having screwed himself out of 52mm.

bigdommer
07-23-2004, 05:25 PM
Well, someone is going to lose big in this case.

Loser 1) The Sox. Maggs' injury costs them a shot at the playoffs.

or

Loser 2) The Sox again. The Sox win the Central despite losing Maggs. However, they lose the opportunity to trade him, and his injury scares off a large contract offer.

or

Loser 3) Maggs. He loses a shot at playing with Sox in the playoffs. Then the Sox and the rest of the league decide not to offer him Vlad money, and Maggs has to sign a 2 yr deal worth a mere $20 mill.

Best case: The Sox make the playoffs, get Thomas and/or Maggs back for Sept and Oct. No one offers Maggs more than the Sox previous offer. Sox, out of good faith, put their offer back on the table. Maggs works hard in the offseason. Same lineup next year.

Deadguy
07-23-2004, 05:29 PM
I guess we can thank the greediness of Colon, Magglio, and their agents for getting us out from under potentially disastrous long-term contracts.

The situation with Magglio, though, is much more displeasing, as he at least is a consistent player we can count on, a decent guy, and is a well deserved fan favorite. I wish you the best Magglio, wherever you end up.

Wealz
07-23-2004, 05:29 PM
I wish no ills to Magglio. However, greed like his should not be rewarded with economic gain. Fewer players would turn down 13mm offers if Ordonez ends up having screwed himself out of 52mm.
I know what you're saying, but it's tough not to feel bad for Ordonez. Just from what I read on bone marrow edema it looks like it could lead to a degenerative knee condition.

I remember Reinsdorf picked up the option for the following year on Ozzie's contract right after Ozzie suffered his year-ending knee injury. Wonder if he would consider offering Maggs a 1-year deal for significant money that also included incentives. Would Ordonez even accept that.

bigdommer
07-23-2004, 05:33 PM
I know what you're saying, but it's tough not to feel bad for Ordonez. Just from what I read on bone marrow edema it looks like it could lead to a degenerative knee condition.

I remember Reinsdorf picked up the option for the following year on Ozzie's contract right after Ozzie suffered his year-ending knee injury. Wonder if he would consider offering Maggs a 1-year deal for significant money that also included incentives. Would Ordonez even accept that.
I feel bad for Maggs if his knee deteriorates and he can never play again.

No matter how nice a guy he is, if he goes broke, I won't feel sorry for him. I don't feel bad for guys who turn down 13 mill of guaranteed money because they need more.

South Side
07-23-2004, 05:34 PM
I feel bad for Maggs if his knee deteriorates and he can never play again.

No matter how nice a guy he is, if he goes broke, I won't feel sorry for him. I don't feel bad for guys who turn down 13 mill of guaranteed money because they need more.
I don't think he's going broke anytime soon.

Deadguy
07-23-2004, 05:44 PM
I don't think he's going broke anytime soon.
It depends on how well he invested or spent his money over the past three years. He may have been spending money with the expectation that another gigantic contract was in his future.

I'm guessing that he probably grossed close to 35 million dollars (before taxes), during his tenure with the White Sox. Even though 3 million dollars alone is a sum of money that most of us would be VERY lucky to earn after a lifetime of work, that type of money can be squandered, if Magglio is not that frugal with the money. Magglio comes off as someone who is somewhat conservative, so I'd expect that he still has a pretty nice sum of money left, but I just hope he hasn't surrounded himself with people that have offered him terrible advice over the past couple of years.

jabrch
07-23-2004, 05:53 PM
I know what you're saying, but it's tough not to feel bad for Ordonez. Just from what I read on bone marrow edema it looks like it could lead to a degenerative knee condition.
I have a very hard time feeling bad for him. He would feel no worse than Albert Belle felt for sticking the Os with 50mm or so of salary when he couldn't play. I can't believe Magglio, who made an issue of a few bucks of deferred money and a guaranteed 5th year is now facing the possibility of not getting year 1 to 4, much less year 5.

nope - given that he should already be set for life, I have no sympathy for a guy who turned down the money he was offered.

bigfoot
07-23-2004, 06:04 PM
I have a very hard time feeling bad for him. He would feel no worse than Albert Belle felt for sticking the Os with 50mm or so of salary when he couldn't play. I can't believe Magglio, who made an issue of a few bucks of deferred money and a guaranteed 5th year is now facing the possibility of not getting year 1 to 4, much less year 5.

nope - given that he should already be set for life, I have no sympathy for a guy who turned down the money he was offered.
While I have respect for the player and the business side of the equation. I don't have to feel sorry for the monetary aspect on either party. There are insurance policies taken out on all contracts. Though the policies may only cover three years instead of the entire life of a contract. One of the reason you don't see more 'long term' contracts without, club option years and buyouts.

owensmouth
07-23-2004, 06:12 PM
He still has 6 to 7 million due him THIS year for walking around on crutches. That'll buy a lot of White Castle hamburgers.

StillMissOzzie
07-23-2004, 06:52 PM
While I have respect for the player and the business side of the equation. I don't have to feel sorry for the monetary aspect on either party. There are insurance policies taken out on all contracts. Though the policies may only cover three years instead of the entire life of a contract. One of the reason you don't see more 'long term' contracts without, club option years and buyouts.
Right you are, bigfoot. Some of the big money contracts are *contingent* on the player being insurable. Maggs may not be insurable if this injury lingers. While the Orioles did get soaked somewhat on Belle's injury, since they didn't have him playing for them, I believe that they recovered about 80% of his pay from insurance.

SMO
:gulp:

Lip Man 1
07-23-2004, 10:09 PM
I'm going to be optimistic here.

I don't think he's done. I think someone, hopefully the Sox, are going to offer him a one year incentive laden deal for next season.

I think Maggs is going to have one of his 'normal' years in 2005 and cash in big in 2006.

Lip

samram
07-23-2004, 10:13 PM
I'm going to be optimistic here.

I don't think he's done. I think someone, hopefully the Sox, are going to offer him a one year incentive laden deal for next season.

I think Maggs is going to have one of his 'normal' years in 2005 and cash in big in 2006.

Lip
Actually, that makes a lot of sense for Maggs. I think Millwood did the same thing this past off-season.

However, if he does sign somewhere else, will the injury hurt the Sox's draft-pick compensation? If he ends this year at .290 with 15 HR and 50 RBI (which is a stretch), will that make him a second tier free agent, not worthy of a first-round pick? Or are the rankings based on the player's overall career?

jabrch
07-23-2004, 11:36 PM
Actually, that makes a lot of sense for Maggs. I think Millwood did the same thing this past off-season.
Milwood was offered arbitration, and shocked philly by accepting it. So they worked out a 1 year deal to avoid the hearing. It will be interesting since the same situation is likely to happen again there.

doublem23
07-23-2004, 11:55 PM
Actually, I hope the Sox sign him for at least a year or two at his market value. I didn't think anyone was going to give him $15 million/year before this all happened, now I don't think there's any way he's getting what he wants. Hopefully he realizes the best for all parties involved is for him to swallow his pride for a year, have a monster season in 2005, erase all the doubt and then try and cash in again for 2006.

StillMissOzzie
07-24-2004, 01:33 AM
I'm going to be optimistic here.

I don't think he's done. I think someone, hopefully the Sox, are going to offer him a one year incentive laden deal for next season.

I think Maggs is going to have one of his 'normal' years in 2005 and cash in big in 2006.

Lip
Lip, just seeing you start a post with "I'm going to be optimistic here." shocked me, but I think you're right. He will probably be offered arbitration anyhow, just to keep the draft pick(s), but I would not be surprised if he got an incentive-laden offer based on AB's and/or games available that came to $10-12M if they all are met.

SMO
:gulp:

MUsoxfan
07-24-2004, 02:22 AM
I feel bad for Maggs if his knee deteriorates and he can never play again.

No matter how nice a guy he is, if he goes broke, I won't feel sorry for him. I don't feel bad for guys who turn down 13 mill of guaranteed money because they need more.

I NEVER feel bad for guys that turn down obscene amounts of money and claim to play for "the love of the game". Guys who truly play for the love of the game don't extort the teams they're playing for. I will not miss Magglio. We don't need him now, we haven't needed him in the past, and we won't need him in the future. I may take some backlash from this, but Aaron Rowand is the best outfielder this team has seen in years and I'd love for him to get Magglio's would-be contract. He AND Lee are both better.

ClaudelSleptHere
07-24-2004, 03:09 AM
1. We better not need him now, because we don't have him.

2. If we didn't need him in the past because we've not won it all with him, I'll give you that stretch.

3. We don't need him in the future? I'm not so sure about that yet.

Seems like all it takes is a stint on the DL to make people forget just how good this guy was (is?).

Imagine how much we would have had to overpay for Carl if we hadn't already traded for him.

Aidan
07-24-2004, 04:14 AM
Imagine how much we would have had to overpay for Carl if we hadn't already traded for him.Good point. :gulp:

indysoxfan
07-24-2004, 04:32 AM
"you never a man behind.."

i am so glad i do not work with any of you SOB's...

:mad:

owensmouth
07-24-2004, 05:25 AM
I think this a real disaster for Magglio's immediate plans. His hopes for a 70 million dollar, five year contract are probably down the drain. The realization that he was in his free agency year may have been part of the reason Maggs wanted back in the field and he's been burned.

If he doesn't make it back in September, who is going to risk that type of dough? Even George may want to double clutch. Besides, he'd rather have Beltran.

flo-B-flo
07-24-2004, 12:06 PM
:reinsy Maggs is hurt! What a terrible thing:D: :maggs es ok Jerry me voy con los ositos.

Brian26
07-24-2004, 12:44 PM
I think this a real disaster for Magglio's immediate plans. His hopes for a 70 million dollar, five year contract are probably down the drain. The realization that he was in his free agency year may have been part of the reason Maggs wanted back in the field and he's been burned.

If he doesn't make it back in September, who is going to risk that type of dough? Even George may want to double clutch. Besides, he'd rather have Beltran.
Actually, this is a great point. Unfortunately, does this mean Mags won't want to come back at all in Sept to risk permanent injury?

hawkjt
07-24-2004, 12:56 PM
I think the sox should leave the deal on the table cuz this does not sound like it will be a recurring injury. He has never had knee problems prior to May 19 ,a day that will live in sox infamy) Like ironman Karl Malone who played 19 years without missing more than like 10 games until a guy fell on his knee, Maggs is very durable and will bounce back. I do believe it puts the sox offer in a better lite and I hope he takes it.

soxtalker
07-24-2004, 01:19 PM
I think the sox should leave the deal on the table cuz this does not sound like it will be a recurring injury. He has never had knee problems prior to May 19 ,a day that will live in sox infamy) Like ironman Karl Malone who played 19 years without missing more than like 10 games until a guy fell on his knee, Maggs is very durable and will bounce back. I do believe it puts the sox offer in a better lite and I hope he takes it.
I don't think that's quite right. IIRC, some of the discussions in the media have indicated that this type of injury can lead to further problems down the road. If that is the case, Maggs market value in a long-term contract have taken a dive.

Wealz
07-24-2004, 01:46 PM
I think Maggs is going to have one of his 'normal' years in 2005 and cash in big in 2006.

Lip
All sorts of bad possibilities for Maggs' because of this injury. If this increases the chances for a degenerative knee condition I can't see a team willing to commit long-term to him.

Flight #24
07-24-2004, 02:00 PM
All sorts of bad possibilities for Maggs' because of this injury. If this increases the chances for a degenerative knee condition I can't see a team willing to commit long-term to him.
actually, the Sox are one that could. They look to have a potential need for a DH in 2-4 years (depending on if/when Thomas retires or leaves).

Deadguy
07-24-2004, 02:07 PM
actually, the Sox are one that could. They look to have a potential need for a DH in 2-4 years (depending on if/when Thomas retires or leaves).
If it is expected that Magglio will be retained as a DH in the final few years of a potential contract, that should drive down the value of his value longterm (in terms of $$$$$), since he is an inferior hitter than Thomas, and thus would be an inferior DH.

There is no way that Magglio or his agent would agree to such an inferration, though, since they will claim Magglio will be able to play the field for the duration of any potential deal.

Yomarei
07-24-2004, 02:12 PM
.Seems like all it takes is a stint on the DL to make people forget just how good this guy was (is?).

Was.

In 2003-2004, he abandoned his all-field approach in favor of being the new Sosa. As a result, he threw away his chance at having a HOF career.

His fielding and baserunning are not what they used to be 3 years ago, and he doesn't appear to be on his way to 1000-1050 OPS campaigns.

TrollHouseCookie
07-24-2004, 02:13 PM
How do you say, "I'm hosed" in Spanish?

South Side
07-24-2004, 02:45 PM
I NEVER feel bad for guys that turn down obscene amounts of money and claim to play for "the love of the game". Guys who truly play for the love of the game don't extort the teams they're playing for. I will not miss Magglio. We don't need him now, we haven't needed him in the past, and we won't need him in the future. I may take some backlash from this, but Aaron Rowand is the best outfielder this team has seen in years and I'd love for him to get Magglio's would-be contract. He AND Lee are both better.
You think Rowand deserves a Magglio contract? Please, put the pipe down.

jabrch
07-24-2004, 03:47 PM
:reinsy Maggs is hurt! What a terrible thing:D: :maggs es ok Jerry me voy con los ositos.

I hope you don't seriously believe JR would be happy that Magglio got hurt so he could get a lower price on him next year. That's friggin insane.

gosox41
07-24-2004, 04:29 PM
All sorts of bad possibilities for Maggs' because of this injury. If this increases the chances for a degenerative knee condition I can't see a team willing to commit long-term to him.
If it does increase his chances for a degenerative knee then the dumbest thing the Sox could do is sign him to a long term contract.



Bob

JoseCanseco6969
07-24-2004, 04:47 PM
Like some of you said, I want no part of Maggs longterm. A one or two year contract is fine with me as long it isnt guaranteed if he goes on the DL. I said in another post, wouldnt it be nice to use the Maggs money, if we could trade for Beltran, and give it beltran?

Nick@Nite
07-26-2004, 09:56 PM
How do you say, "I'm hosed" in Spanish?
:troll