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Jerry_Manuel
09-28-2001, 05:24 PM
From the SouthTown:
Most of the White Sox players spent the final hours before Thursday afternoon's game emptying their lockers and packing up.
While there are still nine more games left on the schedule, none will be played at Comiskey Park.

Few players seemed to mind.

"No, to be honest, it's unfeeling," Paul Konerko said when asked whether he had any sentiments regarding the last home game of the season. "It never took off (this season) between us and the crowd. The way I see it is we were the best team in the American League last year and still didn't draw good crowds. Factor in what we did this year, and there hasn't been a connection."

Konerko wasn't alone in his feelings regarding the small Comiskey Park crowds.

"I think they gave up on us," reliever Sean Lowe said. "There are 10,000-15,000 out there that are our hard-core group. Everyone after that gave up on us.

"Last year, we had people jump on the bandwagon. This year, they jumped off pretty quick."

The Sox's attendance last season was close to 1.9 million. That fell to about 1.75 million this season, fourth worst in the American League behind Tampa Bay, Detroit and Minnesota.

Of that group, only the Sox and Twins have winning records.

Meanwhile, the Cubs entered Thursday's game only three games better than the Sox in the standings. Their attendance was at the 2.45 million mark.

"For the Sox, in order to maintain fans or exceed attendance numbers, we have to win or do well," Sox outfielder Chris Singleton said. "This is a Cubs town. We need to be in first place. We all understand that."

But they don't think it's fair.

"There's a lot of inside jokes (among the players) about the fans," Konerko said. "Not the ones that are here at least they're showing up.

"As players, we have the luxury of traveling to other locations. Our fans don't make a difference like other places. Someday, we hope to have that.

"We do have some good hard-core baseball fans that know the game. We just need 20,000 more (per game)."

A slow start to the 2001 season which began with fans holding high expectations was the Sox's downfall. An 8-15 April, which included a 5-10 home record, seemed to quickly clear the stands.

"We thought they were coming around late last year, but they took a step backwards this year," Konerko said. "Us not winning as much played a big part in that."

At the same time, many players have grown accustomed to the home surroundings.

"There's not one thing as far as home-field advantage," Lowe said. "When we win at home, it's because we're home and it's us. That's it. We really don't have a home-field feel. You go to Seattle or Cleveland, and you can feel the roar when something happens. There's nothing like that here."

The attendance for Thursday's finale was 13,567, only about half of whom showed up, according to some estimates.

MarqSox
09-28-2001, 06:03 PM
That hurts. I mean, on the one hand, they see us as hardcore fans ... but on the other hand, it sounds like they don't even care about the fans anymore. I suppose in their minds Sox fans don't care about them ... man. That hurts.

Jerry_Manuel
09-28-2001, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
That hurts. I mean, on the one hand, they see us as hardcore fans ... but on the other hand, it sounds like they don't even care about the fans anymore. I suppose in their minds Sox fans don't care about them ... man. That hurts.

Well I think they see it as no matter what they do the fans won't come out. So perhaps they have taken a we don't care about the fans stance. They don't show it, I mean they sign autographs before the game. So it's not like there saying screw you.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-28-2001, 06:37 PM
Can I state something that ought to be obvious? After 21 seasons of Reinsdorf ownership competing against the Cubune, there simply aren't that many White Sox fans left. The fan base isn't large enough to sell 25,000 season ticket packages and our attendance has become dependent on walk-up sales. You can't draw 2.5 million people this way.

I'm not blaming all of this on Reinsdorf, though he certainly has played a role. The biggest factor is the resources available to our nearest competition, the Cubs. Before Bill Wrigley sold them, the team was a joke. The Tribune may not know how to field a winner but they sure know how to market a loser. It's gotten to the point where the only new Sox fans are the ones who are related to old ones.

The biggest blow of all was the Cubune getting approval for night games at Wrigley Field. That was the last "monopoly" the Sox had for summer evening entertainment. Once the Flubs began playing in the evening, Sox revenues began to implode. Even the New Comiskey only stemmed the fan base decline for a few years.

As for the rest of it, blame Satan.

"That's me!"
:reinsy

Jerry_Manuel
09-28-2001, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Can I state something that ought to be obvious? After 21 seasons of Reinsdorf ownership competing against the Cubune, there simply aren't that many White Sox fans left. The fan base isn't large enough to sell 25,000 season ticket packages and our attendance has become dependent on walk-up sales. You can't draw 2.5 million people this way.


Well like I said George the players realize there is nothing they can do outside of winning a world series that will bring the fans back. If there even is fans to bring back.

Spiff
09-28-2001, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The Tribune may not know how to field a winner but they sure know how to market a loser.

Sums it up perfectly.

LongDistanceFan
09-28-2001, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
From the SouthTown:
Most of the White Sox players spent the final hours before Thursday afternoon's game emptying their lockers and packing up.
While there are still nine more games left on the schedule, none will be played at Comiskey Park.

Few players seemed to mind.

"No, to be honest, it's unfeeling," Paul Konerko said when asked whether he had any sentiments regarding the last home game of the season. "It never took off (this season) between us and the crowd. The way I see it is we were the best team in the American League last year and still didn't draw good crowds. Factor in what we did this year, and there hasn't been a connection."

Konerko wasn't alone in his feelings regarding the small Comiskey Park crowds.

"I think they gave up on us," reliever Sean Lowe said. "There are 10,000-15,000 out there that are our hard-core group. Everyone after that gave up on us.

"Last year, we had people jump on the bandwagon. This year, they jumped off pretty quick."

The Sox's attendance last season was close to 1.9 million. That fell to about 1.75 million this season, fourth worst in the American League behind Tampa Bay, Detroit and Minnesota.

Of that group, only the Sox and Twins have winning records.

Meanwhile, the Cubs entered Thursday's game only three games better than the Sox in the standings. Their attendance was at the 2.45 million mark.

"For the Sox, in order to maintain fans or exceed attendance numbers, we have to win or do well," Sox outfielder Chris Singleton said. "This is a Cubs town. We need to be in first place. We all understand that."

But they don't think it's fair.

"There's a lot of inside jokes (among the players) about the fans," Konerko said. "Not the ones that are here at least they're showing up.

"As players, we have the luxury of traveling to other locations. Our fans don't make a difference like other places. Someday, we hope to have that.

"We do have some good hard-core baseball fans that know the game. We just need 20,000 more (per game)."

A slow start to the 2001 season which began with fans holding high expectations was the Sox's downfall. An 8-15 April, which included a 5-10 home record, seemed to quickly clear the stands.

"We thought they were coming around late last year, but they took a step backwards this year," Konerko said. "Us not winning as much played a big part in that."

At the same time, many players have grown accustomed to the home surroundings.

"There's not one thing as far as home-field advantage," Lowe said. "When we win at home, it's because we're home and it's us. That's it. We really don't have a home-field feel. You go to Seattle or Cleveland, and you can feel the roar when something happens. There's nothing like that here."

The attendance for Thursday's finale was 13,567, only about half of whom showed up, according to some estimates. My take on this is that no matter how hard they try, the fan base is not there. There is no way to hide a disappointment. Like Paulie stated, last yr they were exciting and this yr nothing, mostly from the beginning of the season the fans never came out.

I was there in the old park and the new. It was exciting coming to the old park. The new park the parking is lousy, the excitment is gone, why, its not the team the players try hard. Its the park and the enviorment. How do you fixed that??

Kilroy
09-28-2001, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan My take on this is that no matter how hard they try, the fan base is not there. There is no way to hide a disappointment. Like Paulie stated, last yr they were exciting and this yr nothing, mostly from the beginning of the season the fans never came out.

Look at the words you're using. Fanbase implies long time fans. You just don't develop fanbase during the course of one winning season. Sorry to say it, but the players should just shut up and play. If they want fanbase, they'll have to build it.

You think the Bulls got to where they are today in one season? Heck no. I can remember when you could walk up at game time and get a seat 5 rows off the floor. We'd see Reggie Theus and Artis Gilmore in their primes, up close. And I know we've said this one here before, but its not too long ago when the upper deck at Wrigley was just plain closed. Not enuf tickets sold. I'm no old man either. We're talking 15-18 years ago. Now I know some of you weren't born, but you have to recognize that the Bulls and the Cubs have built what they enjoy today over years, not during one off-season.

FarWestChicago
09-28-2001, 10:36 PM
I'm no old man either. I wish I could say that.

Kilroy
09-28-2001, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I wish I could say that.

I can still say it, but it won't be long before I can't. But of course, like fine wine...

PaleHoseGeorge
09-28-2001, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Look at the words you're using. Fanbase implies long time fans. You just don't develop fanbase during the course of one winning season. Sorry to say it, but the players should just shut up and play. If they want fanbase, they'll have to build it.

You think the Bulls got to where they are today in one season? Heck no. I can remember when you could walk up at game time and get a seat 5 rows off the floor. We'd see Reggie Theus and Artis Gilmore in their primes, up close. And I know we've said this one here before, but its not too long ago when the upper deck at Wrigley was just plain closed. Not enuf tickets sold. I'm no old man either. We're talking 15-18 years ago. Now I know some of you weren't born, but you have to recognize that the Bulls and the Cubs have built what they enjoy today over years, not during one off-season.

Kilroy's right. I remember the 1984-85 season, I was living near Taylor and Ashland. A friend of mine from the suburbs came in on a Saturday night, we had dinner (Rosebud Cafe), and went to see the Bulls. Neither of us were big basketball fans, but we wanted to see this new rookie phenom named Jordan. We bought tickets at game time and saw him beat the Knicks on a last-second jumper. There were several thousand seats available.

To sell season tickets, you need businesses to buy them for their clients and employees. I can't tell you the number of business associates who tell me their company used to buy season tickets for both the Sox and Cubs but don't any longer. They simply got tired of the Cubs tickets getting snapped up while the Sox tickets were left unused. It was a waste of money. Now seriously, who's fault is that?

"What good is a federal anti-trust exemption if you actually have to WORK to market your product?"
:reinsy

GASHWOUND
09-28-2001, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Kilroy's right. I remember the 1984-85 season, I was living near Taylor and Ashland. A friend of mine from the suburbs came in on a Saturday night, we had dinner (Rosebud Cafe), and went to see the Bulls. Neither of us were big basketball fans, but we wanted to see this new rookie phenom named Jordan. We bought tickets at game time and saw him beat the Knicks on a last-second jumper. There were several thousand seats available.

To sell season tickets, you need businesses to buy them for their clients and employees. I can't tell you the number of business associates who tell me their company used to buy season tickets for both the Sox and Cubs but don't any longer. They simply got tired of the Cubs tickets getting snapped up while the Sox tickets were left unused. It was a waste of money. Now seriously, who's fault is that?

"What good is a federal anti-trust exemption if you actually have to WORK to market your product?"
:reinsy

What should someone do to market the WS? Pass out bumper stickers to out of towners, Make the players go on a traveling publicity tour across the country, rent out those big blimps and advertise the WS name above other ballparks, or just win? See, the only way we will grow a larger fan base, two things have to happen.. Bull doze New Comiskey and build a brand new super ballpark like Enron field, or like the "new Candlestick Park" as I like to call it. That will draw people from all over the country to the new park, which will then give it alot of publicity with word of mouth and people getting to know the players and the team. Also that will also bring out all the other fans who were to lazy to go through all the so-called "trouble" that goes into making a trip to Comiskey. "Traffic, no attractions around the ballpark, costs to much, blah, balh, blah." OR something so obvious that Riensy will utter out the famous words of "HUH?" Winning?
Yes, thats right, WINNING!

Winning Division championships 2, 3, 4 years in a row. gee, what a noble idea. Maybe throw in a WorldSeries here and there, you know...for the heck of it.

If that happened we would have the park filled to capacity and new fans would endure to the team and its players. Hey, do I hear...FANBASE! :)

LongDistanceFan
09-29-2001, 02:13 AM
all you guys have a valid point, esp in baseball, but i remember when, as someone posted, you can an get real good seats at the bulls game. But that kind of change, shorty after a certain #23 was drafted.

ihatethecubs
09-29-2001, 02:35 AM
yea those p*ssies say that now that they wont be playing at comiskey any more this year so nobody can get on them for saying that. fu*k those sh*theads what a bunch of babies. they should be glad the get paid 5 million dollars to play baseball but they cry about attendance and make "inside jokes" about the fans.

MikeKreevich
09-29-2001, 06:00 AM
If the players salarys were based on attendance, Id say they had a reason to bitch. No one seems to know why the sox don't draw. Maybe its because they don't get the out of town busloads other teams get. You can't hear the sox on the radio if you go just 100 miles out of town. No problem getting a Cardinal game on about 5 different stations.
Everybody knows that if the sox played in Wrigly, and the cubs played in Comiskey, the sox would lead in attendance.
It must be the park and its location. If you put Comiskey in a neighborhood with lots of good bars filled with beer loosened beautiful women They Will Come!

Paulwny
09-29-2001, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat
. You can't hear the sox on the radio if you go just 100 miles out of town.

I pick up evening games at ~ 8:30pm EST and I live >500 miles away. Win and keep winning, make the play-offs 4-5 yrs in a row, get to the world series, maybe win it , the fans will return.

LongDistanceFan
09-29-2001, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat

Everybody knows that if the sox played in Wrigly, and the cubs played in Comiskey, the sox would lead in attendance.
It must be the park and its location. If you put Comiskey in a neighborhood with lots of good bars filled with beer loosened beautiful women They Will Come! How bout a better and cheaper parking? An exciting player, and discount prices for the upper deck.

Paulwny
09-29-2001, 09:55 AM
Winning is the only solution to regaining a fan base. Talk all you want about a sterile stadium, traffic problems, bad location and lack of establishments to frequent before and after the game, yankme stadium, with the exception of a sterile stadium, has all these problems yet baseball fans flock to the stadium. I wonder why. WINNING IS THE ONLY SOLUTION!!!!!

cheeses_h_rice
09-29-2001, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by ihatethecubs
yea those p*ssies say that now that they wont be playing at comiskey any more this year so nobody can get on them for saying that. fu*k those sh*theads what a bunch of babies. they should be glad the get paid 5 million dollars to play baseball but they cry about attendance and make "inside jokes" about the fans.

I think you're overreacting and misinterpreting what Konerko is saying. By "inside jokes" I'm sure it's more of a situation where they're playing the Indians and only 24,000 people are there, so they're probably saying to each other, "Well, another HUGE crowd to see us." They're not dissing the fans that are there, they're just disgusted that it seems they can't do anything to consistently bring in bigger crowds, despite being competitive and having won the division last year. I mean, Chicago isn't Detroit. It isn't Kansas City. It isn't Oakland. It's the third biggest city in the USA, so they should be drawing more people. If I were a player, I'd be a little dismayed as well.

RichieRichAllen
09-29-2001, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat
If you put Comiskey in a neighborhood with lots of good bars filled with beer loosened beautiful women They Will Come! [/B]

Hell, I'll drink to that!

LuvChiSox
09-29-2001, 04:56 PM
as we saw last year, winning doesn't build a big fan base but it helps. We led the division almost all season, and still there were plenty of good seats available every game. So putting a winning team on the field doesn't seem to be a big factor.

A good start to getting fans out to the park would be to sell the UD seats at $5 every weekday homegame. I cannot fathom why they don't do this. Can JR be that stupid? He'd rather see empty seats than cheap seats?

Also, if people started coming to the park for the cheap UD seats, then they would find out that many of those seats up there aren't half bad. (And a lot of people sit way up there anyway, even though they could be sitting in the lower deck).

This year it seemed like the players were more willing to sign autographs before the games than they were last year. And I like the way that Maggs makes it a point to acknowledge his "fan club" out in right field every game. This kind of stuff helps the fans feel closer to the team.

I hope in the off-season, that management will take a good hard look at what they can do to get more fans out to the park. Obviously, the recent renovations didn't help very much. They seem to be focusing on the aesthetics of the park more than anything else. I'd rather see them spend the money on some good talent rather than changing the facade of the concessions stands.

LongDistanceFan
09-29-2001, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by LuvChiSox


A good start to getting fans out to the park would be to sell the UD seats at $5 every weekday homegame. I cannot fathom why they don't do this. Can JR be that stupid? He'd rather see empty seats than cheap seats?

Also, if people started coming to the park for the cheap UD seats, then they would find out that many of those seats up there aren't half bad. (And a lot of people sit way up there anyway, even though they could be sitting in the lower deck).

let see it this way........... you have let say for argument sake, 1,000 empty in the UD empty. JR charges $5 every week day games, ummm he makes $5,000 extra per game then he wouldn't have............. on weekdays, you give a dicount for parking as well......... he will keeps this lets say for 2 yrs......... get them used to coming back and he will make money and rebuild the fanbase. On the season ticket holder cut them a break. He doesn't make to max profit in everything, just help the fanbase a little.