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jabrch
07-22-2004, 04:34 PM
Scratched from the lineup. Leaving Cleveland. Coming home. Pain in the same knee. Team doctors to look into it. Herm says full range of motion and no fluid.

RKMeibalane
07-22-2004, 04:36 PM
:hurt :maggs

"White Sox Baseball: Bring your first-aid kit."

valposoxfan
07-22-2004, 04:37 PM
Scratched from the lineup. Leaving Cleveland. Coming home. Pain in the same knee. Team doctors to look into it. Herm says full range of motion and no fluid.
Well this could most definitely be a problem. Especially since he has full range of motion. Hopefully this is still just pain from the knee healing.

Mickster
07-22-2004, 04:38 PM
:bundy

:(: :o: :(: :o:

jabrch
07-22-2004, 04:39 PM
Every day his chances of getting 14mm for 5 years gets smaller and smaller in my eyes. And I no longer think this is a bad thing. He may rue the day he passed on it for the difference of a few buck in deferred money or a guaranteed 5th year.

Jjav829
07-22-2004, 04:40 PM
O man, this isn't good. Maybe he's just heading home early to get ready for the press conference tomorrow announcing his new contract.

pearso66
07-22-2004, 04:40 PM
He's probably keeping himself since not signing that contract. Especially now that the knee injury could look to others like a cronic problem

Edit: whoops I meant probably Kicking himself. I don't know how i missed that.

bobj4400
07-22-2004, 04:41 PM
Just dont think this bodes well for tonight. Gload/Timo v. Sabathia = automatic outs. Unless we end up with Sandy/Davis catching and Burke in right (which I dont like either).

Frank and Maggs out of the lineup is killing us...

Lip Man 1
07-22-2004, 04:41 PM
Un friggin' believeable!

Lip

Jurr
07-22-2004, 04:43 PM
As a former athletic trainer, I can definitely say that this problem is more than likely caused by Magglio's insistence on playing the field. Any joint that is laden down with scar tissue takes some time to fully function without full inflammation on that knee after a rigorous exercise. That's what rehab does...it tries to loosen up everything to the point that the knee doesn't keep inflaming every time he gives it a tough workout. Two things that are promising is that he does in fact have full range of motion and no swelling....which are two of the telltale signs of true inflammation. He's just having discomfort, and it's probably worrying the manager and the player. I guarantee he's just going to get a quick run through the orthopod's office for an MRI to see just how much scar tissue he's got left to battle through.

DaveIsHere
07-22-2004, 04:51 PM
thanks for the info JURR, I can no drink my Miller Lites' tonight in peace while watching a whitesox winner:rolleyes:

MarqSox
07-22-2004, 04:52 PM
Did he go home to his apartment in Chicago or home to Venezuela?

Jurr
07-22-2004, 04:53 PM
No problem. Maggs is just very hard headed, it sounds like. I hated working with players like that. College ballplayers were good about listening to the trainers and chilling out. Pro players in my experience (Titans) don't.

Jurr
07-22-2004, 04:54 PM
probably went to the team doc in Chicago, and will just reunite with the team tomorrow.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2004, 04:55 PM
Just curious...

The medical people said '4 to 7 weeks.' Is it still within this time frame? or is this situation now something considered outside the original injury / rehab?

Second just curious...how in the hell long does it take to get rid of 'scar' tissue and how much are we talking about? two inches? Two millimeters??

Lip

Tekijawa
07-22-2004, 04:56 PM
I don't understand why he's been in the field for those two games? I thought we got Everett so he wouldn't have too?

Jurr
07-22-2004, 04:58 PM
Cause he's Maggs. The team wants him to resign, so we're going to kiss his butt and we like his bat. If Maggs says, "I'll hit better if I'm in the field", we'll oblige, even though it's in his best interests to just keep resting that leg and take his AB's from the DH slot. Typical

Jurr
07-22-2004, 05:04 PM
In response to Lip, a meniscus is a little half-orange shaped pad of cartilage sitting between the two big leg bones (tibia and femur)....when there's inflammation after a surgery, you get some residual scar tissue..(anywhere from millimeters to centimeters..) even that amount of scar tissue doesn't feel normal in a fully functioning knee joint. The body reacts by inflaming and there's pain because that meniscus is padding the knee bones from impacting each other. If he's running around hard (I bet he felt it on that play in the outfield where he chased a ball into foul territory), he'll feel a good bit of pain the next day. If he took another week off and just stayed in the DH slot, he'd probably minimize that discomfort. Anyway, he'll (and we'll) be fine.

Win1ForMe
07-22-2004, 05:17 PM
Scratched from the lineup. Leaving Cleveland. Coming home. Pain in the same knee. Team doctors to look into it. Herm says full range of motion and no fluid.Is there a link or was this on the pre-game?

And sidenote-
:chunks

dickallen15
07-22-2004, 05:25 PM
Why does Magglio go home early? I'm sure he won't see the doctor until tomorrow morning. Shouldn't he be held to the same parameters as Frank,and be with the team? What's waiting a couple of hours until the team flight going to matter anyway? Shouldn't he be used as a decoy?

Jerko
07-22-2004, 05:27 PM
Lineup 7-22

Rowand cf
Harris 2b
Lee lf
Konerko 1b
Everett dh
Crede 3b
Perez rf
Uribe SS
Davis c

hawkjt
07-22-2004, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the comforting info Jurr. This is the danger when you devote almost a quarter of your entire payroll to one guy. He can get hurt and we will end up paying Maggs almost 5-6 million while on the bench. Frank and Maggs losing significant time is equal to anything the cubs have had and we have heard excuses from them all the time. Add Jose and Danny Wright and we have had no luck this year. Gotta rise above. Go Sox

Win1ForMe
07-22-2004, 05:30 PM
Lineup 7-22

Rowand cf
Harris 2b
Lee lf
Konerko 1b
Everett dh
Crede 3b
Perez rf
Uribe SS
Davis c
That has to be the WORST bottom of the lineup ever.

South Side
07-22-2004, 05:34 PM
That has to be the WORST bottom of the lineup ever.

Not so bad if Uribe continues to hit the way he did last night, late in the game. :smile:

jabrch
07-22-2004, 05:40 PM
Is there a link or was this on the pre-game?


reported on the Score.

Evman5
07-22-2004, 05:46 PM
Rooney and Farmer are saying he could back in the lineup as early as tomorrow.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2004, 06:11 PM
Let's hops so...Detroit isn't the same garbage team they were last year but dammit tonight was an important game! Someone last night posted about making a 'statement.' A statement is made with a sweep not a split.


I'm not going to be criticle of Maggs because he's obviously in some pain but if in fact he can play tomorrow what's to be gained by sitting him out tonight? Is he going to get that much better in 24 hours? or is this exam a psychological one to remove any doubts from his mind or the team's.

Just bad timing again.

Lip

Dub25
07-22-2004, 06:16 PM
I'll worry if he's announced to go on the DL again. For now, hopefully since he is not playing tonight he is just getting a head start and get some rest for the weekend.

Foulke You
07-22-2004, 06:55 PM
I wonder if Maggs rushed back too soon from the injury? Man, we really don't need this right now. Minnesota is coming to town on Monday.:(:

SoxxoS
07-22-2004, 06:56 PM
Don't worry. Borchard is available to hit .220/7/25 the rest of the year.

Cubbiesuck13
07-22-2004, 07:34 PM
in response to the post about kissing mags butt and junk, the Oz is a player's manager and player's manager listens to an All-Star calliber player when he says he can play the field. They tried to talk him out of it and Mags is the kind of guy who wants to give 110% and felt that he could. He knows how much money he stands to loose and he still went out and gave it his all. All I can say is I hope Jurr is right and I respect Mags a lot and would not stand in the way of letting him play the field.

Dadawg_77
07-22-2004, 07:43 PM
No problem. Maggs is just very hard headed, it sounds like. I hated working with players like that. College ballplayers were good about listening to the trainers and chilling out. Pro players in my experience (Titans) don't.
Well pro players, esp FA have million at stake so they might be more concern then college players.

oeo
07-22-2004, 07:45 PM
When I read this thread topic, I was thinking, wow the Sox finally signed him to a contract, he's returning next year. This is bad, bad news.

Win1ForMe
07-22-2004, 08:44 PM
There's now a story posted on the Sox website.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040722&content_id=806945&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp
The left knee Ordonez had surgery on in June is continuing to cause problems for him.


"It's just too sore," Ordonez said, when asked why he was scratched from the lineup.

Head trainer Herm Schneider said he wanted to get an expert's opinion on Ordonez's knee, and, because the team is headed back to Chicago after Thursday's game, now seemed the perfect time.

"He's sore in the knee area, and it just seems to come and go," Schneider said. "It's not real alarming to me right now. He still has full range of motion, but he's just got some discomfort. He's not carrying any fluid or anything."

That's a good sign. But manager Ozzie Guillen said he is still concerned about Ordonez. After all, the slugger has now been scratched from the lineup in two of the Sox's last three games. "To play one day, play real good, run the bases well and do everything he's supposed to do, and to show up the next day a little stiff, we can see that," Guillen said. "I worry about it. It's time to see what's really there and take a real look at it."

Lip Man 1
07-22-2004, 10:27 PM
Ozzie says: "It's time to see what's really there and take a real look at it."
I thought that's what the doctors have been doing the last month! (or is this another case of reading the x-ray or MRI wrong?)

Christ....just get it friggin correct the first time doc's!

Seriously didn't Joe Mauer have the same injury? and he's a catcher! Talk about putting stress on a knee. Has he had any trouble since he's returned? (and he plays on turf...)

Lip

StrTrkker
07-22-2004, 10:35 PM
Did anybody hear the post game on AM1000? Bill Melton said he had a somewhat similar injury and that hes pretty sure Mags will be back and that it doesnt look to serious in his opinion.

Lets hope Melty is right.

Win1ForMe
07-22-2004, 10:36 PM
Seriously didn't Joe Mauer have the same injury? and he's a catcher! Talk about putting stress on a knee. Has he had any trouble since he's returned? (and he plays on turf...)Yeah, he's back on the DL with knee soreness, although there appear to be differences:


But Mauer developed soreness and swelling before the All-Star break, when a planned change was made in his medication that helps cartilage growth. An MRI revealed some inflammation, and Mauer was unable to catch in a weekend series against Kansas City. He had one at-bat Thursday against the Royals.

SoxxoS
07-22-2004, 10:47 PM
I am taking bets on the time it take Joe Mauer to be converted into a 1st baseman...

The over/under is 3 years. I'll take the under.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2004, 11:02 PM
The Tribune now has a story on Maggs on their web site. Make of it what you will.

The story says Ordonez met with the team doctor TONIGHT as soon as he got back to Chicago and that it was possible he was going to have another MRI.

Then you have this quote from Ozzie:

"I hope it's nothing real bad, but we have to be prepared for the worst," manager Ozzie Guillen said.

Just me but this doesn't sound like 'nothing...'

South Side
07-22-2004, 11:06 PM
Personally, I see this whole ordeal decreasing his value... Couldn't this increase our chances of signing him?

Aidan
07-22-2004, 11:07 PM
The Tribune now has a story on Maggs on their web site. Make of it what you will.

The story says Ordonez met with the team doctor TONIGHT as soon as he got back to Chicago and that it was possible he was going to have another MRI.

Then you have this quote from Ozzie:

"I hope it's nothing real bad, but we have to be prepared for the worst," manager Ozzie Guillen said.

Just me but this doesn't sound like 'nothing...'Here's the link...

'Very sore' knee sidelines Ordonez
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040722soxbrite,1,4525757.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Dammit, maybe Maggs should've just kept his mouth shut and been the DH. It's bad enough that he's demanding more money than he's worth but now he's messing with out playoff hopes. We may have to trade for Carlos Beltran at the deadline. :o:

Win1ForMe
07-22-2004, 11:10 PM
The Tribune now has a story on Maggs on their web site. Make of it what you will.

The story says Ordonez met with the team doctor TONIGHT as soon as he got back to Chicago and that it was possible he was going to have another MRI.
Just curious but how else would expect them to "look" at his knee?

samram
07-22-2004, 11:22 PM
The Tribune now has a story on Maggs on their web site. Make of it what you will.

The story says Ordonez met with the team doctor TONIGHT as soon as he got back to Chicago and that it was possible he was going to have another MRI.

Then you have this quote from Ozzie:

"I hope it's nothing real bad, but we have to be prepared for the worst," manager Ozzie Guillen said.

Just me but this doesn't sound like 'nothing...'
During Wednesday's game, he made a catch in right where he ran toward the foul line and then had to stop quickly to avoid running into the wall in foul territory. When I saw that, my immediate thought was that had to be rough on his knee. Hopefully, it wasn't some single incident that caused the aggravation. There's no way he can play the field right now, no matter how much he dislikes DHing. Hopefully he can hit and stay in the lineup, but he has to DH for at least another week.

StillMissOzzie
07-23-2004, 01:42 AM
He's probably keeping himself since not signing that contract. Especially now that the knee injury could look to others like a cronic problem

Edit: whoops I meant probably Kicking himself. I don't know how i missed that.
So are you saying that he re-injured the knee by kicking himself?

SMO
:D:

StockdaleForVeep
07-23-2004, 01:56 AM
Im sure he's fine, we all seen him playing and he's been sliding and hittin homers, who knows, if he keeps playin injured maybe we can have a magical world series moment where magz hits a game winning game 7 bomb with one leg as he limps the bases.

SSN721
07-23-2004, 06:34 AM
I dont like the whole situation. The only positive I might see is it might decrease his overall value and increase our chances of signing him. Maybe it will actually knock his value down to here we all feel he deserves instead of an inflated price tag. But if that happens at the cost of making the playoffs and making some noise this year I dont want it. I just hope he can get back in the lineup soon. Get well Maggs

SoxOnTop
07-23-2004, 06:35 AM
Why does Magglio go home early? I'm sure he won't see the doctor until tomorrow morning. Shouldn't he be held to the same parameters as Frank,and be with the team? What's waiting a couple of hours until the team flight going to matter anyway? Shouldn't he be used as a decoy?
*****, Frank had already been diagnosed and was going to be put on the DL after the homestand regardless. Sitting on the bench for 2 days would not have changed the number of days he was on the DL. Maggs, on the other hand is being sent home to be evaluated and may play as soon as today. The sooner he's evaluated, the sooner he may get back on the field. You can't compare the situations.

Quit looking for reasons why Frank is being wronged by KW. Why are the Thomas apologist always jealous of Maggs?

Flight #24
07-23-2004, 07:55 AM
Ozzie says: "It's time to see what's really there and take a real look at it."
I thought that's what the doctors have been doing the last month! (or is this another case of reading the x-ray or MRI wrong?)

Christ....just get it friggin correct the first time doc's!

Seriously didn't Joe Mauer have the same injury? and he's a catcher! Talk about putting stress on a knee. Has he had any trouble since he's returned? (and he plays on turf...)

Lip
Sheesh. Maggs comes back, andimagine that - there's some discomfort when he plays the field for the first time in a while!!! THey're on a road trip, without an ability to have drs check him out and make sure it's OK so he heads home......So how in heck would Ozzie know ANYTHING except that Maggs went home to have his knee checked out???

But I'm sure it's appropriate to start casting doubt on Sox docs (again), yeah that's fine. Because a manager who hasn't spoken to docs about a player who might not even have been examined yet is likely to have the definitive word on what's going on......

And FWIW - Mauer is out again - maybe the Twins docs are ignorant/incompetent as well, huh Lip?

Remember - it's medicine, where you make educated guesses unless you want to open things up. It's not anything like finance or engineering where you have a lot more specific, concrete evidence. Do we really need to rehash the whole MRI/pitching injury medical discussion? Beckett21, where are you???

jabrch
07-23-2004, 08:17 AM
Ozzie says: "It's time to see what's really there and take a real look at it."
I thought that's what the doctors have been doing the last month! (or is this another case of reading the x-ray or MRI wrong?)

Christ....just get it friggin correct the first time doc's!


Lip
Lip, stick to JR bashing. You are good at it - and have a good case and a strong degree of credibility there. Your doctor bashing is weak. It's undignified for a person of your stature. And your understanding of medicine is clearly insufficient to draw the conclusions you seem to be drawing.

dickallen15
07-23-2004, 09:02 AM
*****, Frank had already been diagnosed and was going to be put on the DL after the homestand regardless. Sitting on the bench for 2 days would not have changed the number of days he was on the DL. Maggs, on the other hand is being sent home to be evaluated and may play as soon as today. The sooner he's evaluated, the sooner he may get back on the field. You can't compare the situations.

Quit looking for reasons why Frank is being wronged by KW. Why are the Thomas apologist always jealous of Maggs?They could have had somebody else look at him. Getting examined Friday morning or Thursday evening would make no difference on his status for Friday night's game or DL status as that always can be made retroactive.One more thing, it was the Anahiem and Oakland doctors that found the problem in Maggs knee, not the Sox doctors. To rip Frank, who has a stress fracture and needs to be in a non-weight bearing boot, because he won't sit in the dugout (he would either have had to sit and not move for the entire game, and he was in a boot). My point was not to rip Magglio, in fact, I named my dog after him. It was to show just how ridiculous KW was to throw a fit about Frank, especially after a game that was won, and after KW was on the radio saying Frank would be out a couple of days.

SoxOnTop
07-23-2004, 12:37 PM
They could have had somebody else look at him. Getting examined Friday morning or Thursday evening would make no difference on his status for Friday night's game or DL status as that always can be made retroactive.One more thing, it was the Anahiem and Oakland doctors that found the problem in Maggs knee, not the Sox doctors. To rip Frank, who has a stress fracture and needs to be in a non-weight bearing boot, because he won't sit in the dugout (he would either have had to sit and not move for the entire game, and he was in a boot). My point was not to rip Magglio, in fact, I named my dog after him. It was to show just how ridiculous KW was to throw a fit about Frank, especially after a game that was won, and after KW was on the radio saying Frank would be out a couple of days.
Maggs was diagnosed by the Anahiem and Oakland doctors becuase that is where he was when he got injured. Currently he is going through rehab. Would you have a Cleveland doctor check him out who knows nothing about his rehab or where he he is currently in his recovery? I'm not saying that your ripping Maggs. Your needlessly ripping KW and bringing up Thomas for no appearent reason.

And KW may have had no right to rip Thomas in public, but the strategy to have him on the bench as a decoy certainly has merrit. Nobody but Frank knows whether or not he was healthy enough to walk around the dugout and sit on the bench for 2 days. But I wouldn't be surprised if he refused just to piss off KW becuase he's dissapointed on the 1st and 15th of the month. Of course, we don't know Frank's side to the story becuase we won't talk to the freakin' media. And why not? Becuase he sticks his foot in his mouth every chance he gets. Perhaps it's ironic that it is his foot that is injured.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2004, 12:39 PM
I can only speak for myself but I'm sick of these friggin' injuries being goofed up, misdiagnosed and screwed up.

I have already admitted in another post my admiration for doctors and how I can't imagine doing what they do but by the same token these team doctors are supposedly the 'best' in the field making huge amounts of money to be 'right...'

If for whatever reason they can't ,then it's time to find someone who can.

Now I'm being told in essence 'medicine isn't an exact science.' ***? What is this car repair???

Either something is hurt or it's not, either something is torn or it's not, either something is broken or it's not.

My God, Frank Thomas played on a broken foot for three weeks apparently while people were saying, 'we don't know what's wrong...' I'm sure Frank was very happy about that situation wasn't he?

Sorry the 'excuses' about MRI's and x-rays and such just don't cut it anymore with me.

This team is trying to win a championship and the people in the front office need to know 'exactly' what the hell is wrong so that they can make intelligent decisions on what to do about it to say nothing of the athletes themselves who may only have their career at stake. (Just ask Mike Sirotka about that!)

Because I don't follow other teams I can not say if what is happening to the Sox is common or not. All I know is that the list started with Eldred (Sorry I CAN NOT forget the comments from Manager Gandhi!) and continued with Sirotka (the doctors LET him pitch in Japan even after he told them something was wrong) and it's continued from there.

Do you think Kenny Williams spent time trying to defend his medical staff after the 2000 season because he had nothing else to do?

He did it because other, more important, better educated people then myself, were asking the same questions and wanting answers.

Lip

Rocky Soprano
07-23-2004, 12:40 PM
And KW may have had no right to rip Thomas in public
That's the whole point. KW needs to learn how to handle some stuff in house and not doing it with the media.

SoxOnTop
07-23-2004, 12:50 PM
That's the whole point. KW needs to learn how to handle some stuff in house and not doing it with the media.
Yes, but what the heck does that have to do with Maggs being sent back to Chicago for evaluation. My point is that every Thomas appologist hates KW. And as such you guys go out of your way to make connections to injustices done to Thomas by KW even when they have no place. I'm sure if Frank ends up being out for the year and we go to the playoffs one of you will make the case that it is KW's fault that Frank isn't play in the playoffs.

You guys are rediculous.

SoxxoS
07-23-2004, 12:59 PM
That's the whole point. KW needs to learn how to handle some stuff in house and not doing it with the media.
KW normally would have just flipped over a buffet table, but dinner was over.

dickallen15
07-23-2004, 01:02 PM
Maggs was diagnosed by the Anahiem and Oakland doctors becuase that is where he was when he got injured. Currently he is going through rehab. Would you have a Cleveland doctor check him out who knows nothing about his rehab or where he he is currently in his recovery? I'm not saying that your ripping Maggs. Your needlessly ripping KW and bringing up Thomas for no appearent reason.

And KW may have had no right to rip Thomas in public, but the strategy to have him on the bench as a decoy certainly has merrit. Nobody but Frank knows whether or not he was healthy enough to walk around the dugout and sit on the bench for 2 days. But I wouldn't be surprised if he refused just to piss off KW becuase he's dissapointed on the 1st and 15th of the month. Of course, we don't know Frank's side to the story becuase we won't talk to the freakin' media. And why not? Becuase he sticks his foot in his mouth every chance he gets. Perhaps it's ironic that it is his foot that is injured.
Maggs got sent to the Oakland and Anaheim doctors because that's where the Sox where when he had continuous pain in his knee, and the White Sox medical staff could find nothing wrong with him. The Sox were in Oakland, he left there and went to Anaheim to visit with their doctor. The Sox weren't even playing there. I think a doctor in Cleveland is capable of taking an MRI. Frank was supposedly selfish for not sitting on the bench with a stress fracture, just to act as a decoy. The Sox won the game. KW has a problem with Frank and needs to keep his mouth shut. Maybe acting as a decoy has merit, I don't know, but Frank's injury was a lot larger than KW thought.

Paulwny
07-23-2004, 02:35 PM
I can only speak for myself but I'm sick of these friggin' injuries being goofed up, misdiagnosed and screwed up.

I have already admitted in another post my admiration for doctors and how I can't imagine doing what they do but by the same token these team doctors are supposedly the 'best' in the field making huge amounts of money to be 'right...'

If for whatever reason they can't ,then it's time to find someone who can.

Now I'm being told in essence 'medicine isn't an exact science.' ***? What is this car repair???

Either something is hurt or it's not, either something is torn or it's not, either something is broken or it's not.


My God, Frank Thomas played on a broken foot for three weeks apparently while people were saying, 'we don't know what's wrong...' I'm sure Frank was very happy about that situation wasn't he?

Sorry the 'excuses' about MRI's and x-rays and such just don't cut it anymore with me.

This team is trying to win a championship and the people in the front office need to know 'exactly' what the hell is wrong so that they can make intelligent decisions on what to do about it to say nothing of the athletes themselves who may only have their career at stake. (Just ask Mike Sirotka about that!)

Because I don't follow other teams I can not say if what is happening to the Sox is common or not. All I know is that the list started with Eldred (Sorry I CAN NOT forget the comments from Manager Gandhi!) and continued with Sirotka (the doctors LET him pitch in Japan even after he told them something was wrong) and it's continued from there.

Do you think Kenny Williams spent time trying to defend his medical staff after the 2000 season because he had nothing else to do?

He did it because other, more important, better educated people then myself, were asking the same questions and wanting answers.

Lip
Lip, remember the thread in the PL, Drs pay teams to be the "Official team medical personnel" ? Teams no longer look at a doctors credentials they look to see how much he has in his wallet.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=36570

johnny_mostil
07-23-2004, 02:36 PM
I am taking bets on the time it take Joe Mauer to be converted into a 1st baseman...

The over/under is 3 years. I'll take the under.
Yeah, but will he be a good first baseman? Even a very good hitting catcher is an ordinary hitting first baseman.

Jurr
07-23-2004, 02:37 PM
Well, these meniscal tears aren't the type that clear up totally after a surgery. Any doctor can tell you that in the case of a cartilage padding on the biggest joint in the body (in terms of force against), you're going to build up some scar tissue, and you can't quite tell someone how long it'll be before they are able to take on a full exercise load without pain. It's just part of it. You can give a timetable based on what you know, but it varies so much from patient to patient. Magglio should've been more willing to sit his butt down and DH. He's not going to be damaging anything anymore than he has already, because the surgery clears that stuff out. It's just a matter of him getting over the pain that the extra scar tissue (post-op) is causing. Being on an exercise bike or an elliptical trainer is a good idea. Pounding full force on that joint in the outfield is not. He just needs to give it a little more time. But as far as the medical staff goes, they can't give an absolute timetable as to when Maggs will be pain free. The MRI was probably taken yesterday to get an idea how much more scar tissue is left to knock out.

StockdaleForVeep
07-23-2004, 02:59 PM
Well, these meniscal tears aren't the type that clear up totally after a surgery. Any doctor can tell you that in the case of a cartilage padding on the biggest joint in the body (in terms of force against), you're going to build up some scar tissue, and you can't quite tell someone how long it'll be before they are able to take on a full exercise load without pain. It's just part of it. You can give a timetable based on what you know, but it varies so much from patient to patient. Magglio should've been more willing to sit his butt down and DH. He's not going to be damaging anything anymore than he has already, because the surgery clears that stuff out. It's just a matter of him getting over the pain that the extra scar tissue (post-op) is causing. Being on an exercise bike or an elliptical trainer is a good idea. Pounding full force on that joint in the outfield is not. He just needs to give it a little more time. But as far as the medical staff goes, they can't give an absolute timetable as to when Maggs will be pain free. The MRI was probably taken yesterday to get an idea how much more scar tissue is left to knock out.

What i dont understand is how fielding was what hurt his knee again? He has been batting for how long since he came off the dl? Running drills before that, he slid into home a few days ago, and all this he appeared fine. Im not an expert in medicine....or in math....or with women but thats straying from the topic. I dont know how running the bases hard and whatnot and fielding are different\fielding worse. He didnt make any diving plays.

SoxxoS
07-23-2004, 03:03 PM
Yeah, but will he be a good first baseman? Even a very good hitting catcher is an ordinary hitting first baseman.
I think Mauer will be the exception, he has got a great stick. Shoot, he is the only guy that can say he "owns" Shingo!

Flight #24
07-23-2004, 03:12 PM
I can only speak for myself but I'm sick of these friggin' injuries being goofed up, misdiagnosed and screwed up.

I have already admitted in another post my admiration for doctors and how I can't imagine doing what they do but by the same token these team doctors are supposedly the 'best' in the field making huge amounts of money to be 'right...'

If for whatever reason they can't ,then it's time to find someone who can.

Now I'm being told in essence 'medicine isn't an exact science.' ***? What is this car repair???

Either something is hurt or it's not, either something is torn or it's not, either something is broken or it's not.

My God, Frank Thomas played on a broken foot for three weeks apparently while people were saying, 'we don't know what's wrong...' I'm sure Frank was very happy about that situation wasn't he?

Sorry the 'excuses' about MRI's and x-rays and such just don't cut it anymore with me.

This team is trying to win a championship and the people in the front office need to know 'exactly' what the hell is wrong so that they can make intelligent decisions on what to do about it to say nothing of the athletes themselves who may only have their career at stake. (Just ask Mike Sirotka about that!)

Because I don't follow other teams I can not say if what is happening to the Sox is common or not. All I know is that the list started with Eldred (Sorry I CAN NOT forget the comments from Manager Gandhi!) and continued with Sirotka (the doctors LET him pitch in Japan even after he told them something was wrong) and it's continued from there.

Do you think Kenny Williams spent time trying to defend his medical staff after the 2000 season because he had nothing else to do?

He did it because other, more important, better educated people then myself, were asking the same questions and wanting answers.

Lip
Translation: I dont care if it can't be done, do it anyway!!!

Lip: Drs have come on here and posted to the inaccuracies and difficulties in reading MRIs, XRays, etc. Patients have posted about how their own personal diagnoses were revised and how after surgery new/different things were found. So I'm sorry if you feel like it "just don't cut it with me anymore", unless you want to go invent a better diagnostic tool you will have to live with what's out there.

You're basically saying "I don't care that MRI's aren't exact, since the Sox drs cant make them exact they must be incompetent". That's ludicrous.

Other teams have the same issues. Troy Glaus was back & forth for weeks before finally being diagnosed as needing shoulder surgery. Garrett Anderson spent the first half of the season with them trying to figure out why he had back pain - only to eventually find out it was arthritis. And yet the Angels supposedly have one of the best medical staffs in all of sports (IIRC, isn't either Andrews, Jobe, or Boscardin affiliated with them?).

But I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you can use it to slam the Sox organization. Hey - are you sure it isn't JR hiding behind the MRI machine and mucking the reading up somehow?

And KW had excellent reason to stand by his medical staff: people like you with no medical training or apparently interest in understanding the truth of the industry were making claims like yours that the Sox staff was incompetent or that he had cheated Gord Ash. Both are VERY serious. No drs or other medical experts were part of that, just Gord Ash (in a CYA manouver) and a bunch of journalists dragging the Sox through the mud (again).

samram
07-23-2004, 03:25 PM
Translation: I dont care if it can't be done, do it anyway!!!

Lip: Drs have come on here and posted to the inaccuracies and difficulties in reading MRIs, XRays, etc. Patients have posted about how their own personal diagnoses were revised and how after surgery new/different things were found. So I'm sorry if you feel like it "just don't cut it with me anymore", unless you want to go invent a better diagnostic tool you will have to live with what's out there.

You're basically saying "I don't care that MRI's aren't exact, since the Sox drs cant make them exact they must be incompetent". That's ludicrous.

Other teams have the same issues. Troy Glaus was back & forth for weeks before finally being diagnosed as needing shoulder surgery. Garrett Anderson spent the first half of the season with them trying to figure out why he had back pain - only to eventually find out it was arthritis. And yet the Angels supposedly have one of the best medical staffs in all of sports (IIRC, isn't either Andrews, Jobe, or Boscardin affiliated with them?).

But I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you can use it to slam the Sox organization. Hey - are you sure it isn't JR hiding behind the MRI machine and mucking the reading up somehow?

And KW had excellent reason to stand by his medical staff: people like you with no medical training or apparently interest in understanding the truth of the industry were making claims like yours that the Sox staff was incompetent or that he had cheated Gord Ash. Both are VERY serious. No drs or other medical experts were part of that, just Gord Ash (in a CYA manouver) and a bunch of journalists dragging the Sox through the mud (again).
Good post. Another example is Giambi. They can't figure out what's wrong with him, whether it's the parasite, some other infection, or even cancer. He's being tested for everything, and they can't figure it out and this has been going on for at least six weeks.

RKMeibalane
07-23-2004, 03:27 PM
Lip, there are few things I dislike more than arm-chair physicians. For the past three weeks, you've done nothing but criticize the men and women who have dedicated themselves to helping others. If you're not happy with the job the Sox medical staff has done, that's your business, but I'm getting tired of reading the same thing posted over and over again. Drop it.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2004, 06:28 PM
RK:

Fine...we'll chalk up Thomas and Ordonez to 'bad luck.'

There is that any better?

Instead of trying to find out why this has happened five times to players since July 2000, we'll take the Cub approach and blame it on a 'curse.'

Lip

RKMeibalane
07-23-2004, 06:47 PM
RK:

Fine...we'll chalk up Thomas and Ordonez to 'bad luck.'

There is that any better?

Instead of trying to find out why this has happened five times to players since July 2000, we'll take the Cub approach and blame it on a 'curse.'

Lip
Injuries are part of sports, Lip. Grant Hill hasn't been healthy for more than four years. At this point, nobody really knows why his ankle hasnt healed. And, considering that he may not play basketball again, does it even matter why his ankle remains such a problem? I don't think so.

I'm more inclined to blame the Sox injury woes on bad luck than anything else. Frank hurt his ankle by taking a bad step while leading off first base. Maggs hurt his while standing in the batter's box. Could the Sox medical staff have done a better job with the initial diagnosis? Maybe, but there's no way to really know what the test results looked like.

Let's just hope that Frank and Maggs can make it back before the end of the season. The Sox are going to need both of them in order to wrap this thing up.

Mickster
07-23-2004, 06:59 PM
The sox team physician was just on the pre-game show and stated that this endema in his bone is something that is not very common with this type of injury. One can find this particular injury with individuals who have been in auto accidents where an individual's knees sometimes get "jammed" into a dashboard, for example...

ode to veeck
07-23-2004, 07:05 PM
Lip,

I dunno about the other four cases, but I can relate to the uncertainty in the meniscus repair department.

MRIs don't reveal everything either. In my case, there was a moderate amount of abraisons to be found once Raiders' Dr. King got in my knee with the scope in March. Like Maggs, I am impatient to get back to full usage, and continue to have to take a few days off from the tennis court, even now nearly 5 months from my meniscus tear repair. Two months out I was still havng some pain in the knee after using it moderately (doubles).

For me the pain has mostly subsided, but I still get minor swelling after vigorous usage, like today after two hours of hard singles play yesterday. My physical therapist and docs have said it really takes several months to get back to 'normal'.

Trying to come back too quick doesn't help, even if you ice it reguarly after use, take anti-inflammatories, etc. Staying at DH would be the conservative approach (like me staying away from singles) until time allows for more healing.

There is a huge amount of uncertainties in soft tissue repairs, unlike a nice hard mechanical thing, like a big four barrel carberator you just rebuilt.

Ode