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View Full Version : For all you Crede and Borchard haters...


Aidan
07-21-2004, 09:00 AM
I'm not saying I want this to happen but we could easily trade these two guys for Benson and Kendall...
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20040719&content_id=804367&vkey=trade2004&fext=.jsp
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that the Pirates are interested in shoring up both corner infield spots and right field, but that Littlefield said on his weekly show on flagship KDKA: "It's not a done deal we're trading Kris Benson."Joe Crede (corner infielder)
Borchard (right fielder)
FOR
Kris Benson
Jason Kendall

I'm sure either Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney could be subbed in for Borchard but people here seem to like those two and hate Borchard. It could be done quite easily but it's very unlikely because of Kendall's huge contract. Many people think that Benson is overrated but you know what they say, "you can NEVER have enough pitching."

habibharu
07-21-2004, 12:25 PM
id do that trade last yesterday!

Tekijawa
07-21-2004, 12:35 PM
id do that trade last yesterday!
That's EXACTLY what we need an overpaid Catcher, and an over rated "ace"... I don't understand why everyone hates Crede so much?

SoxxoS
07-21-2004, 12:39 PM
Sure you just didn't read my earlier post??:cool:


http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37342

Win1ForMe
07-21-2004, 12:40 PM
I would do that trade in 2 seconds.

I don't understand why everyone hates Crede so much?
Yeah, I mean he's only the least productive player at his position. What's not to like?

Win1ForMe
07-21-2004, 12:45 PM
I would do that trade in 2 seconds.
And this doesn't mean I'm giving up on Borchard. But with a 2005 outfield of Lee/Rowand(even though I hope they rethink this)/Everett already set, I don't want to see Joe wasting away another year at AAA. So unless they have a plan to give him regular playing time next season, I'd much rather get some value for him.

Tekijawa
07-21-2004, 12:49 PM
I would do that trade in 2 seconds.


Yeah, I mean he's only the least productive player at his position. What's not to like?
Trust me we would miss him the every time that Uribe would overthrow Konerko at first on a play charging the ball... His GLOVE is worth 10 times more than any bat we could put at that position.

Win1ForMe
07-21-2004, 01:11 PM
Trust me we would miss him the every time that Uribe would overthrow Konerko at first on a play charging the ball... His GLOVE is worth 10 times more than any bat we could put at that position.
So you're going to tell me that Joe Crede's defense is worth more than Jason Kendall's offense and Kris Benson's pitching? You're nuts.

Here's how baseball works:
1. Pitching 2. Hitting ....................................... 3. Defense

Mickster
07-21-2004, 01:15 PM
So you're going to tell me that Joe Crede's defense is worth more than Jason Kendall's offense and Kris Benson's pitching? You're nuts.

Here's how baseball works:
1. Pitching 2. Hitting ....................................... 3. Defense
Actually, winning teams have shown it to be:
1. Pitching 2. Defense..................................... 3. Hitting

patbooyah
07-21-2004, 01:18 PM
I'm not saying I want this to happen but we could easily trade these two guys for Benson and Kendall...
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20040719&content_id=804367&vkey=trade2004&fext=.jsp
Joe Crede (corner infielder)
Borchard (right fielder)
FOR
Kris Benson
Jason Kendall

I'm sure either Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney could be subbed in for Borchard but people here seem to like those two and hate Borchard. It could be done quite easily but it's very unlikely because of Kendall's huge contract. Many people think that Benson is overrated but you know what they say, "you can NEVER have enough pitching."
:tsk:

Rudy Law
07-21-2004, 01:19 PM
I don't understand why everyone hates Crede so much?[/QUOTE]
Because he is the 3B and he is batting.230..and is showing no signs of coming out of it...You can't have that out of your 3B...Especially when the the 9 spot is also an automatic out

Win1ForMe
07-21-2004, 01:21 PM
Actually, winning teams have shown it to be:
1. Pitching 2. Defense..................................... 3. Hitting
Yeah, it's not like the Red Sox, the 3rd worst fielding team in the league, are much better than the 3rd worst hitting team (Toronto) and the 3rd worst pitching team (Cleveland). GMAB.

Tekijawa
07-21-2004, 02:00 PM
So you're going to tell me that Joe Crede's defense is worth more than Jason Kendall's offense and Kris Benson's pitching? You're nuts.

Kris Benson 7 Wins 75 Strike outs in 118. innings 4.26 ERA 1.4 WHIP, Very Similar Numbers to Garland and half the people here are ready to run him out of town...

So essentially you're giving up "our top remianing prospect" and our everyday thirdbaseman for a catcher and A mediocre starter, that will add around 16+ Million to our annual payroll.... you guys are truly brilliant! Crede is IN THE 8th Spot, I can't imagine to many teams expect 300, 50HR and 120 RBI out of that spot like we seem to do for some reason? so you get a guy that hits 40 points higher gets on base 16 more times a season, and like you said no one in the 9 spot hits, that's just 16 more stranded runners instead of a SOLID GLOVE at third who also covres Valentin going to his right, which is where he used to make all those errors remember?

I'd trade him if we had an ample back up or could get one but that isn't the case... Look at what everyone and their grandma is looking for for all their players, they all want Young pitching, young talented catchers and Third friken' basemen!!!

P.S. Uribe and Valentin aren't options for 3rd unless you are truly living in a fantasy world.

fquaye149
07-21-2004, 02:08 PM
Actually, winning teams have shown it to be:
1. Pitching 2. Defense..................................... 3. Hitting
usually you know what you're talking about mickster, but not here.

that's just an espnization of their twincentric philosophy.

Think about the best teams in baseball and think about how many of them actually need their defense (with the exception of the twins)

now think about the great gms. how many of them value defense over production?

The Tom
07-21-2004, 02:13 PM
Crede is IN THE 8th Spot, I can't imagine to many teams expect 300, 50HR and 120 RBI out of that spot like we seem to do for some reason? .[/QUOTE]
I don't expect any of those things, but I dont think 280, 20, and 70 is too much to ask for. He cant even give that.

ma_deuce
07-21-2004, 02:14 PM
That's EXACTLY what we need an overpaid Catcher, and an over rated "ace"... I don't understand why everyone hates Crede so much?
I don't hate Joe Crede, I hate the way he has been playing. We need production and he has not produced. This is our year, and we need a catcher. Sandy is old and injury prone, Burke is too green, and Davis should be waiting tables at a local Denny's. With Olivo gone, we need another reliable catcher. Kendall fits the bill well, and we would be suckers not to trade for him.

Deuce

fuzzy_patters
07-21-2004, 03:28 PM
[QUOTE=Tekijawa]Kris Benson 7 Wins 75 Strike outs in 118. innings 4.26 ERA 1.4 WHIP, Very Similar Numbers to Garland and half the people here are ready to run him out of town...

[QUOTE]

Good point. Furthermore, NL ERA's are typically .5 runs lower than AL ERA's because the DH is replaced with the pitcher. Thus, Benson's AL adjusted ERA would be more like 4.76. Since US Cellular has given up homers at a faster rate this year than Coor's Field, you can probably bump that ERA up closer to 5 if he played for the Sox. We can find a better pitcher than Benson. Hell, Schoenweis can do better than Benson.

Dice
07-21-2004, 04:12 PM
I'd give Crede one more full season before I make a move for him. REMEMBER, he was supposed to be called up 2 years ago for full time duty.


Borchard is in the same respects, I'll give him at least 3 full seasons to prove himself before I ship him off. BUT if he has a terrible season I'd consider moving him immediately. We've seen flashes of what Crede can do we haven't seen anything for Borchard.

sendimjoey
07-21-2004, 04:25 PM
Joe Crede is not killing the Sox offense by himself. Uribe and Harris have been pretty inconsistent (except when they've consistently been cold) the last two months, and there's the small matter of not having the best two hitters on the team healthy and in the lineup on a consistent basis since the end of May.

Let's keep in mind that Crede comes cheaply, too, for the next three or four years. A team like the Sox can't afford to ship a promising (though underperforming) second-year player like Crede away. He's shown that he has some ability at the major-league level. I think he'll get it turned around just fine.

There have to be other options at catcher than Kendall. I'd have to think about this before throwing out any names.

sendimjoey
07-21-2004, 04:48 PM
There have to be other options at catcher than Kendall. I'd have to think about this before throwing out any names.
I looked, and there aren't many non-Kendall options, actually. :redface: Greg Zaun from the Blue Jays would be a switch-hitting, very poor man's Kendall (good average and OBP, doesn't hit the ball hard enough to break a pane of glass). Benito Santiago is due back from an injury sometime next month, so he's a possible pickup after the waiver deadline, maybe.

I'm no huge fan of Zaun's, but having him catch 3-4 times a week and Alomar catch 2-3 times a week wouldn't be intolerable. (Maybe this thread should go to the Clubhouse.)

Jerome
07-21-2004, 05:05 PM
Actually, winning teams have shown it to be:
1. Pitching 2. Defense..................................... 3. Hitting

Where is the teal font? What winning teams are you referring to?

Defense is without a doubt, the most overrated aspect of the game in baseball. Managers waste offense by putting guys with "good gloves" in games. GMs waste millions paying for a gold-glove calibur players. If I were a GM, I'd destroy the phrase "five-tool" player because hitting for average and power are the ones that really matter. Pitching and Offense are so much more important than defense.