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View Full Version : Why don't we play smallball???


Mots09
07-20-2004, 10:51 PM
I thought "Ozzie Ball" consisted of playing small ball and utilizing our speed??

Arowand was up there hacking tonight 3-0 with a runner on first down by a run and NO OUTS!!!!

This makes me soooo mad. Smallball and doing correct fundamentals wins ballgames!:angry:

South Side
07-20-2004, 10:56 PM
I thought "Ozzie Ball" consisted of playing small ball and utilizing our speed??

Arowand was up there hacking tonight 3-0 with a runner on first down by a run and NO OUTS!!!!

This makes me soooo mad. Smallball and doing correct fundamentals wins ballgames!:angry:
It's obvious that they are physically incapable of it. Most idiotic moment of the game--- Konerko GIDP with 2 on and NO OUTS!!! Thinking of it again makes me want to :chunks

ND_Sox_Fan
07-20-2004, 11:00 PM
Then when Texas was in the same situation, they bunt and execute. It hurts to see.:mad:

I understand as a coach sometimes you get a feeling and don't want to take the bat out of a guy's hands, but it was almost a no brainer bunt with Konerko up in the 8th, even if you have to pinch hit in that situation.

South Side
07-20-2004, 11:05 PM
Then when Texas was in the same situation, they bunt and execute. It hurts to see.:mad:

I understand as a coach sometimes you get a feeling and don't want to take the bat out of a guy's hands, but it was almost a no brainer bunt with Konerko up in the 8th, even if you have to pinch hit in that situation.
Right, you have the EXACT same situation and Texas did exactly what we should have done ... and they win... that hurts even more.:angry:
That is why I don't really hold it against Marte (I hold the walk against him) b/c not only does he a good job 95% of the time but when you have 2 runners on and no outs then you are suppose to score! It's called manufacturing runs and it seems like we're the only team that cannot do it!

jabrch
07-20-2004, 11:06 PM
Then when Texas was in the same situation, they bunt and execute. It hurts to see.:mad:

I understand as a coach sometimes you get a feeling and don't want to take the bat out of a guy's hands, but it was almost a no brainer bunt with Konerko up in the 8th, even if you have to pinch hit in that situation.
You don't take the bat out of PKs hands. Not the way he is hitting right now. Nope - bad idea.

Mots09
07-20-2004, 11:14 PM
The way he is hitting.... Is that .186 since the All-Star break. You are damn right you take the bat out of his hands, thats the winning run that you need to get in the top of the 8th!:angry:

milrtyme28
07-20-2004, 11:18 PM
We do seem to be unable to manufacture runs in any way shape or form unless it is with the long ball. I hate watching timo step into the batters box and praying he can hit one out for us. :whiner: :whiner:

Mots09
07-20-2004, 11:22 PM
Exactly ME... As I said to my buddies tonight. Jose embodies everything the Sox are..... STREAKY and it can either be a K or a HR!

More times than not this will catch up with you!

OEO Magglio
07-20-2004, 11:36 PM
The way he is hitting.... Is that .186 since the All-Star break. You are damn right you take the bat out of his hands, thats the winning run that you need to get in the top of the 8th!:angry:For the people who wanted pk to bunt I ask when's the last time you've seen him bunt?

WSox8404
07-20-2004, 11:38 PM
For the people who wanted pk to bunt I ask when's the last time you've seen him bunt?
Then the whole team need to take some frickin bunting practice, because that double play was a momentum shift. Absolutely pathetic.

South Side
07-20-2004, 11:43 PM
For the people who wanted pk to bunt I ask when's the last time you've seen him bunt?
Bunting is a fundamental part of baseball. If you are incapable of doing it then you shouldn't be in the Major Leagues. GIDP with no outs in a tie game with 2 on is unacceptable. That is a major problem and Ozzie needs to address it. I am so sick of this losing every other day. It's not working...

ND_Sox_Fan
07-20-2004, 11:44 PM
For the people who wanted pk to bunt I ask when's the last time you've seen him bunt?
Then pinch hit someone who can!!

OEO Magglio
07-20-2004, 11:50 PM
Then pinch hit someone who can!!Ok, sure bunting is a fundamental part of baseball but I still ask you have you ever seen pauly bunt? Whether he can or can't bunt is that a good time to test out to see if he can bunt, I don't think so. ND, your not going to pinch hit for the player that is leading your team in homers and rbi's. Ozzie did nothing wrong in this situation, I believe he made some other mistakes in this game but this wasn't one of them.

mealfred13
07-20-2004, 11:55 PM
Then pinch hit someone who can!!
AT THE VERY LEAST, yes. Wasn't Uribe available off the bench to lay down a freakin bunt?

Then you could have moved gload to first, Willie to Center, and Rowand to right. If it means the winning run, who gives a crap if Paulie had to sit for the last inning. He did his job with a 2 run jack.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-20-2004, 11:58 PM
Ok, sure bunting is a fundamental part of baseball but I still ask you have you ever seen pauly bunt? Whether he can or can't bunt is that a good time to test out to see if he can bunt, I don't think so. ND, your not going to pinch hit for the player that is leading your team in homers and rbi's. Ozzie did nothing wrong in this situation, I believe he made some other mistakes in this game but this wasn't one of them.
I am sure he can't be as bad as half of the other players on this team. In all seriousness, I understand what you are saying and that is why I said in my original post that I know (from personal experience) managers get a feeling and don't want to take the bat out of certain player's hands. However, with Paul's special ability to hit into double plays, that feeling has to be a bit harder to get to - especially with Paul's mini-slump over the last 5 games or so.

All I am saying is that the players have to step up and execute in that situation - either move the runners along or drive the ball somewhere.

OEO Magglio
07-21-2004, 12:01 AM
I am sure he can't be as bad as half of the other players on this team. In all seriousness, I understand what you are saying and that is why I said in my original post that I know (from personal experience) managers get a feeling and don't want to take the bat out of certain player's hands. However, with Paul's special ability to hit into double plays, that feeling has to be a bit harder to get to - especially with Paul's mini-slump over the last 5 games or so.

All I am saying is that the players have to step up and execute in that situation - either move the runners along or drive the ball somewhere.I definitely agree with you, Pauly has to get the job done there, it was pauly's fault thought not ozzie's. I would have loved to see this place if pauly attempted a bunt and popped it up, there would be others that would just go nuts no matter what.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-21-2004, 12:04 AM
I definitely agree with you, Pauly has to get the job done there, it was pauly's fault thought not ozzie's. I would have loved to see this place if pauly attempted a bunt and popped it up, there would be others that would just go nuts no matter what.
Well put! I know I would still applaud the bunt if he popped it up because that is the way I play/manage the game, but you are right about most folks.

OEO Magglio
07-21-2004, 12:05 AM
Well put! I know I would still applaud the bunt if he popped it up because that is the way I play/manage the game, but you are right about most folks.Fair enough. For the most part I'm the same way, just to me this was not the scenario to bunt but we agreed to disagree, so all is well.:smile: :bandance:

doublem23
07-21-2004, 12:07 AM
Bunting is a fundamental part of baseball. If you are incapable of doing it then you shouldn't be in the Major Leagues. GIDP with no outs in a tie game with 2 on is unacceptable. That is a major problem and Ozzie needs to address it. I am so sick of this losing every other day. It's not working...
You're ****in' kidding right? Konerko? Lay down a bunt? The worst I'd do with him is a hit and run. You only get 27 outs, giving them away with bunts and **** is stupid, especially with a line-up like this.

My only real problem with the game was pinch-hitting for Crede and then letting Davis bat in the 9th. :?:

OEO Magglio
07-21-2004, 12:09 AM
You're ****in' kidding right? Konerko? Lay down a bunt? The worst I'd do with him is a hit and run. You only get 27 outs, giving them away with bunts and **** is stupid, especially with a line-up like this.

My only real problem with the game was pinch-hitting for Crede and then letting Davis bat in the 9th. :?:My beef with ozzie this game, wat pinch hitting with maggs for sandy instead of crede in the 7th inning. If they put maggs on there you can pinch run with uribe who is obviously is faster then davis and then play him at 3rd, that way sandy can still bat.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-21-2004, 12:12 AM
My beef with ozzie this game, wat pinch hitting with maggs for sandy instead of crede in the 7th inning. If they put maggs on there you can pinch run with uribe who is obviously is faster then davis and then play him at 3rd, that way sandy can still bat.
Yes - he just wasted Mags in tonight's game. Furthermore, as you point out - it would be much better to have someone hit for Crede in the current climate.

South Side
07-21-2004, 12:15 AM
You're ****in' kidding right? Konerko? Lay down a bunt? The worst I'd do with him is a hit and run. You only get 27 outs, giving them away with bunts and **** is stupid, especially with a line-up like this.

My only real problem with the game was pinch-hitting for Crede and then letting Davis bat in the 9th. :?:
I didn't say he should have laid down a bunt there but I am saying, in general using the excuse that he doesn't know how to correctly do it, then that's a problem, and a horrible excuse. But then again, I don't think anything could be worse then... and I will say it again... GIDP WITH 2 MEN ON AND NO OUTS IN A TIE GAME. Had this not happened there would be no problems in the 9th, who cares if Davis bats when we're up by 1 and Shingo is warming? You have a guy on 3rd in the 7th as well... It's just terrible.

doublem23
07-21-2004, 12:19 AM
I didn't say he should have laid down a bunt there but I am saying, in general using the excuse that he doesn't know how to correctly do it, then that's a problem, and a horrible excuse. But then again, I don't think anything could be worse then... and I will say it again... GIDP WITH 2 MEN ON AND NO OUTS IN A TIE GAME. Had this not happened there would be no problems in the 9th, who cares if Davis bats when we're up by 1 and Shingo is warming? You have a guy on 3rd in the 7th as well... It's just terrible.
All right, well you can't manage on what "should have happened." Had the Sox hit 9 homers in the first inning, they also wouldn't be in the same position.

And no, I have no problem with a corner infielder not knowing how to lay down a bunt. That's not his job. Paul didn't sign that big contract a few years ago to bunt.

South Side
07-21-2004, 12:26 AM
All right, well you can't manage on what "should have happened." Had the Sox hit 9 homers in the first inning, they also wouldn't be in the same position.

And no, I have no problem with a corner infielder not knowing how to lay down a bunt. That's not his job. Paul didn't sign that big contract a few years ago to bunt.

The DP was a very big "should NOT have happened" and a crucial aspect of the game, it's not the same as saying they should have scored 9 in the first. I have a problem with him not knowing how to bunt, a big problem with it and for the exact situation that occurred tonight.

JB98
07-21-2004, 02:14 AM
The DP was a very big "should NOT have happened" and a crucial aspect of the game, it's not the same as saying they should have scored 9 in the first. I have a problem with him not knowing how to bunt, a big problem with it and for the exact situation that occurred tonight.
It's not Konerko's job to move runners along. It's his job to drive runners in. He failed in that situation, but he's one of our big guns and I'll never agree with anyone who says we should take the bat out of his hands. In addition, I have zero confidence in Ross Gload, even with runners on second and third and one out. In case you didn't notice, he whiffed on three pitches. Do you really think he would have knocked in that run? I don't. I'll take my chances with Konerko. If the same situation comes up tomorrow, I'll want Paul to swing away again. I'm not willing to give up outs in the middle of the order to set up RBI chances for the woeful hitters at the bottom of our lineup.

As for the bottom of the eighth, Texas didn't have Teixeira bunt with a man at first and no outs, did they? Of course not. You take a chance on a double play in order to give one of your big RBI guys on opportunity.

Seriously, I've had it with all these pleas for more small-ball.:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

We are a power-hitting team. We live and die by the long ball, and you can't change your style of play midseason. It doesn't work like that.

mealfred13
07-21-2004, 02:22 AM
It's not Konerko's job to move runners along. It's his job to drive runners in. He failed in that situation, but he's one of our big guns and I'll never agree with anyone who says we should take the bat out of his hands.
When Paulie stops hitting into double plays constantly and re-learns how to hit the ball the other way into the gap between second and first (like he did SO many times during the 2000 season), then I will gladly watch as he gets a hit, lines out, or pops out during that at bat. But while he continues to ground into double plays, he should bunt. The situation called for it. No out, 2 on, DP nice and ripe, Mr. DP at bat, tie game, solid closers coming in. Take advantage, and bunt it.

South Side
07-21-2004, 03:51 AM
It's not Konerko's job to move runners along. It's his job to drive runners in. He failed in that situation, but he's one of our big guns and I'll never agree with anyone who says we should take the bat out of his hands. In addition, I have zero confidence in Ross Gload, even with runners on second and third and one out. In case you didn't notice, he whiffed on three pitches. Do you really think he would have knocked in that run? I don't. I'll take my chances with Konerko. If the same situation comes up tomorrow, I'll want Paul to swing away again. I'm not willing to give up outs in the middle of the order to set up RBI chances for the woeful hitters at the bottom of our lineup.

As for the bottom of the eighth, Texas didn't have Teixeira bunt with a man at first and no outs, did they? Of course not. You take a chance on a double play in order to give one of your big RBI guys on opportunity.

Seriously, I've had it with all these pleas for more small-ball.:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

We are a power-hitting team. We live and die by the long ball, and you can't change your style of play midseason. It doesn't work like that.
And that's why we're 6 games over in a sub-par division... It's not working and that is why we lost today! It is Konerko's job to move the runner along but he obviously can't do it so you settle for his role as home run hitter or GIDP guy as does Ozzie apparently... I'll take that when he's hot but what about now? No, we lost a game b/c of it. I didn't say take the bat out of his hand... If I were manager I would not have pinch hit for Paulie and that is b/c he IS one of our biggest bats... I don't even know what I would have done differently to be honest with any of you (good thing I'm not a manager) but I know that I am not making excuses for PK... He didn't get the job tonight. You expect one of your best hitters to do something productive with 2 men on and no outs (in a tie game) and he didn't do it... result? A loss. Something's gotta change... Live and die by the homerun works when you have offense like we had from April to June but what about now? We're losing every other game. Something's gotta change...

owensmouth
07-21-2004, 05:36 AM
Even laying down a near perfect bunt, PK can be doubled. He's not the slowest runner in the American League, but he's close. If you pinch hit for PK, it would be very obvious what was coming, and then what? Uribe is faster than Paulie, but he isn't fast.

Aidan
07-21-2004, 05:38 AM
Even laying down a near perfect bunt, PK can be doubled. He's not the slowest runner in the American League, but he's close. If you pinch hit for PK, it would be very obvious what was coming, and then what? Uribe is faster than Paulie, but he isn't fast.Exactly. I think the only guy on our roster that Paulie can beat in a foot-race is Sandy Alomar. :(:

JRIG
07-21-2004, 05:47 AM
Let's take a quick look at the best teams in baseball.

Yankees. Smallball? Nope.
Red Sox. Smallball? Nope.
Rangers. Smallball? Nope.
A's. Smallball? Nope.
Phillies. Smallball? Nope.
St. Louis. Smallball? Nope.
L.A. Dodgers. Smallball? Nope.
Twins. Smallball? Yes.

How about we don't play smallball because it's not an effective strategy for winning baseball games.

SOXSINCE'70
07-21-2004, 07:31 AM
This team was built for the long ball.Why do you think the fences were brought in before the '01 season?? Comiskey Park is now the easiest park to hit a home run.Yes,even easier than Coors Field.

This team can't play small ball with base cloggers like Konerko.I'm not the first to mention this.I won't be the last.The Sox better learn how to take ball 4 and manufacture a few runs here and there.Their next 22 games are against the Central.This is the season.We'll see just how good of a manager Ozzie is in the next 3 weeks.A good manager shakes off a loss like last night's and says "Today's a new day (or night)".
A bad manager lets clubhouse divisivness ruin any hope of even a WC berth
(see Baker,Johnnie B,a/k/a/ "Dusty").:angry: :angry:

BigEdWalsh
07-21-2004, 08:00 AM
This team was built for the long ball.Why do you think the fences were brought in before the '01 season?? Comiskey Park is now the easiest park to hit a home run.Yes,even easier than Coors Field.

This team can't play small ball with base cloggers like Konerko.I'm not the first to mention this.I won't be the last.The Sox better learn how to take ball 4 and manufacture a few runs here and there.Their next 22 games are against the Central.This is the season.We'll see just how good of a manager Ozzie is in the next 3 weeks.A good manager shakes off a loss like last night's and says "Today's a new day (or night)".
A bad manager lets clubhouse divisivness ruin any hope of even a WC berth
(see Baker,Johnnie B,a/k/a/ "Dusty").:angry: :angry:
That's it in a nutshell. We don't play smallball because this team sucks at it. Willie Harris isn't even good at it and he SHOULD be!! Whatever the outcome of this year, come spring training Ozzie better have everybody-no exceptions work on some smallball skills (bunting, base stealing, hit and run and whatever else smallball may involve that I can't think of). Not that I want to see things necessarily change dramatically, but sometimes ya gotta manufacture runs!!!:angry:

ND_Sox_Fan
07-21-2004, 08:07 AM
Let's take a quick look at the best teams in baseball.

Yankees. Smallball? Nope.
Red Sox. Smallball? Nope.
Rangers. Smallball? Nope.
A's. Smallball? Nope.
Phillies. Smallball? Nope.
St. Louis. Smallball? Nope.
L.A. Dodgers. Smallball? Nope.
Twins. Smallball? Yes.

How about we don't play smallball because it's not an effective strategy for winning baseball games.
Just checking, but I am pretty damn sure that the RANGERS bunted in the bottom of the 8th last night - putting the 5th and 6th runs in scoring position.

TornLabrum
07-21-2004, 08:43 AM
When Paulie stops hitting into double plays constantly and re-learns how to hit the ball the other way into the gap between second and first (like he did SO many times during the 2000 season), then I will gladly watch as he gets a hit, lines out, or pops out during that at bat. But while he continues to ground into double plays, he should bunt. The situation called for it. No out, 2 on, DP nice and ripe, Mr. DP at bat, tie game, solid closers coming in. Take advantage, and bunt it.
According to Greg Walker, Konerko has changed his whole hitting approach in the past year. You might have noticed that, despite yesterday's game, he has hit into a lot fewer double plays and has hit the ball more to the right side.

As far as bunting, you don't have the middle of your lineup bunt when they are quite capable of jacking the ball out of the park. That's just dumb baseball.

TornLabrum
07-21-2004, 08:45 AM
Just checking, but I am pretty damn sure that the RANGERS bunted in the bottom of the 8th last night - putting the 5th and 6th runs in scoring position.
I wasn't able to see last night's game. Exactly who bunted for the Rangers. Was he their equivalent of Konerko?

BigEdWalsh
07-21-2004, 08:52 AM
I wasn't able to see last night's game. Exactly who bunted for the Rangers. Was he their equivalent of Konerko?
Just for the record, it was Laynce Nix.

BigEdWalsh
07-21-2004, 08:56 AM
According to Greg Walker, Konerko has changed his whole hitting approach in the past year. You might have noticed that, despite yesterday's game, he has hit into a lot fewer double plays and has hit the ball more to the right side.

As far as bunting, you don't have the middle of your lineup bunt when they are quite capable of jacking the ball out of the park. That's just dumb baseball.
I've noticed that Konerko hasn't grounded into quite so many double plays.
However, I disagree with your comment about the dumb baseball. With 2 on and no outs, tie game, late innings bunting would have been smart baseball, middle of the lineup included.

TornLabrum
07-21-2004, 09:03 AM
I've noticed that Konerko hasn't grounded into quite so many double plays.
However, I disagree with your comment about the dumb baseball. With 2 on and no outs, tie game, late innings bunting would have been smart baseball, middle of the lineup included.
Yeah, if you're playing in the dead ball era....

BigEdWalsh
07-21-2004, 09:13 AM
Yeah, if you're playing in the dead ball era....:D:
Sorry still disagree. It's simply playing for one run to possibly win the frickin' game. Had they got another run and taken the lead. I like the chance to win with Marte (though as it turned out had an uncharacteristic bad night) and Shingo. What's wrong with a little fundamental baseball?

ma_deuce
07-21-2004, 09:21 AM
:ozzie
"Hey Jose. If you got a 3-0 count, don' swing."

:manos
"But Ozzie, how am I gonna hit the long ball if I don' swing?"
:shammy
"I agree with Manos. You gotta fully extend to entertain the crowds. Walking is for wimps."

Mots09
07-21-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by JRIG
Let's take a quick look at the best teams in baseball.

Yankees. Smallball? Nope.
Red Sox. Smallball? Nope.
Rangers. Smallball? Nope.
A's. Smallball? Nope.
Phillies. Smallball? Nope.
St. Louis. Smallball? Nope.
L.A. Dodgers. Smallball? Nope.
Twins. Smallball? Yes.

How about we don't play smallball because it's not an effective strategy for winning baseball games.



I understand this team isn't built around small ball, but when you need ONE RUN to get the lead and possibly even up the road trip you lay down the bunt! That is fundamental baseball, in fundamental baseball you give yourself the best chance to score a run. A lot easier when they are 90ft closer, and you dont have Joe Crede coming up :D:


I understand none of those teams on the list other than the Twins are smallball teams, but I think a smallball team won the World Series lastyear if i am not mistaken



-White Sox White Sox GO GO White Sox-

mdep524
07-21-2004, 10:39 AM
Let's take a quick look at the best teams in baseball.

Yankees. Smallball? Nope.
Red Sox. Smallball? Nope.
Rangers. Smallball? Nope.
A's. Smallball? Nope.
Phillies. Smallball? Nope.
St. Louis. Smallball? Nope.
L.A. Dodgers. Smallball? Nope.
Twins. Smallball? Yes.

How about we don't play smallball because it's not an effective strategy for winning baseball games.
Here's the thing- so-called "Smallball" is about more than just bunting. It's about EXECUTION. Do I think the Sox should bunt more often? No. Should they take more walks, hit behind runners, hit and run, steal bases, 1st and 3rd, go to the opposite field, hit the ball in the gaps? YES!!!! That is what is going to make the runs accumulate, not frickin' bunting.

The Sox don't do ANY of those things- not ONE. They're agressive, dead pull all-or-nothing power hitters with little to no speed. Ick.

mdep524
07-21-2004, 10:50 AM
Also, I think St. Louis has one of the best offenses in the game-you have them listed as a "no" on smallball, but that is wrong. They bunt when its called for, (they did a few times vs. the Cubs in the past 2 days), but more importantly they still do the little things to score runs- Womack gets on base via the walk or slap single, he gets moved over, and the big guns drive him home. Combine that with big time power- Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds, etc.- and you've got a great approach.
I would love to see the Sox play like the Cards.

SOXSINCE'70
07-21-2004, 10:55 AM
That's it in a nutshell. We don't play smallball because this team sucks at it. Willie Harris isn't even good at it and he SHOULD be!! Whatever the outcome of this year, come spring training Ozzie better have everybody-no exceptions work on some smallball skills (bunting, base stealing, hit and run and whatever else smallball may involve that I can't think of). Not that I want to see things necessarily change dramatically, but sometimes ya gotta manufacture runs!!!:angry:
Willie's been thrown out trying to steal a lot lately.As "Hawk" mentioned last night,this fact should not make Harris gunshy.Station to station teams don't get it done when playoff time comes.Good post,Big Ed.

The Tom
07-21-2004, 10:57 AM
The way he is hitting.... Is that .186 since the All-Star break. You are damn right you take the bat out of his hands, thats the winning run that you need to get in the top of the 8th!:angry:
This is a pointless argument. Ozzie didn't, nore will he or any other manager in all the bigs, take the bat out of a guy like Konerko's hands. It just does not happen. You let a guy like Konerko swing the bat, period.

And to fill you in, Ozzie's not playing small ball because his lineup isn't capable. It's hard to put runs together when the bottom of the lineup are all basically automatic outs. That's too much pressure on the rest of the guys. Thus, we have to hit home runs to win (note most of our home runs are solo or two run).

Frater Perdurabo
07-21-2004, 11:06 AM
Here's the thing- so-called "Smallball" is about more than just bunting. It's about EXECUTION. Do I think the Sox should bunt more often? No. Should they take more walks, hit behind runners, hit and run, steal bases, 1st and 3rd, go to the opposite field, hit the ball in the gaps? YES!!!! That is what is going to make the runs accumulate, not frickin' bunting.

The Sox don't do ANY of those things- not ONE. They're agressive, dead pull all-or-nothing power hitters with little to no speed. Ick.

Best. Post. Ever.

Second best is your post about being like the Cardinals.

I've been calling for a multidimensional attack for YEARS. Power AND speed AND fundamentals AND situational hitting.

That IS what the Yankees, Cards and Rangers offenses are doing right now, and that's why they are producing. The Sox are relying SOLELY on the long ball, and they hit mostly solo shots and a few two-run taters. When they do get two or more runners on base, they swing for the fences and hit into double plays or pop out. Consequently, they leave too many men stranded on base.

ma-gaga
07-21-2004, 11:23 AM
The Sox are relying SOLELY on the long ball, and they hit mostly solo shots and a few two-run taters. When they do get two or more runners on base, they swing for the fences and hit into double plays or pop out. Consequently, they leave too many men stranded on base.
And the reason is that Ozzie MAY have fallen to the allure of the long ball threat. A balanced attack is the way to go, which is why Cleveland is scary because they can do it all as well...

If they only had a bullpen.

Jerko
07-21-2004, 11:26 AM
Rolen AND/OR Edmonds bunted earlier in the year. I forget which one it was but ESPN made a big deal out of it. Actually, if EITHER one of them can be "asked" to bunt, so can Konkero.

habibharu
07-21-2004, 11:27 AM
the rangers bunted because lanynce nix was up. we had PK up. PK is a much better and more dangerous hitter than nix! plus, he had a homer already. that DP was all on PK, he should have at least hit it to the right side. you cant blame ozzie for not having him bunt. ozzie screwed up when he walked matthews to get to barajas. matthews was hitting .226 right handed!

ND_Sox_Fan
07-21-2004, 11:50 AM
the rangers bunted because lanynce nix was up. we had PK up. PK is a much better and more dangerous hitter than nix! plus, he had a homer already. that DP was all on PK, he should have at least hit it to the right side. you cant blame ozzie for not having him bunt. ozzie screwed up when he walked matthews to get to barajas. matthews was hitting .226 right handed!
Hit it to the right side, and all you get is a 4-6-3 DP. He had only two options there - bunt or drive the ball - that's it.

CanOfCorn
07-21-2004, 11:57 AM
Rolen AND/OR Edmonds bunted earlier in the year. I forget which one it was but ESPN made a big deal out of it. Actually, if EITHER one of them can be "asked" to bunt, so can Konkero.
Rolen/Edmonds = good speed
Konerko = not so much

If he bunts it right back to the pitcher, that's almost a guaranteed twin killing.

JB98
07-21-2004, 11:59 AM
the rangers bunted because lanynce nix was up. we had PK up. PK is a much better and more dangerous hitter than nix! plus, he had a homer already. that DP was all on PK, he should have at least hit it to the right side. you cant blame ozzie for not having him bunt. ozzie screwed up when he walked matthews to get to barajas. matthews was hitting .226 right handed!
You are absolutely correct. The Rangers let Teixeira (the Texas equivalent to PK) swing away in the eighth inning. Then, they had Nix bunt. Nix is the Texas equivalent to Aaron Rowand. Had Rowand been up for us with two on and no outs in the eighth, then the situation would have called for a bunt!!! You play the situation according to your personnel, not by some dumb notion of how "the game is supposed to be played." Konerko has not bunted all year, and I firmly believe he would have failed if he were asked to bunt the 95 mph heat Almanza was throwing up there. No matter what people on this board think, bunting is not easy, especially against hard-throwing relievers. Honestly, when Paul came up to bat, I was optimistic he'd come through. He had just gone deep the last inning. I wasn't thinking about "bitty ball" or bunting or scoring one run. I was thinking dagger. Go for the big inning. The Rangers are a powerhouse offensive team, and you are a fool if you think one run is a safe lead. We swing away with Konerko. He leads this team in HR and RBIs. He may have had a bad series in Oakland, but he had just homered in the seventh. I had faith in him, and I still have faith in him. He just didn't get the job done this time.

Ozzie should have never walked Matthews. That guy is a strikeout waiting to happen against a guy like Marte. However, I think we are all missing the real reason we lost the game. It had nothing to do with any strategical errors by Ozzie. Rather, we allowed worthless John Wasdin to two-hit us through six innings. This has been a common theme in every loss we've had in the last three weeks. We just aren't getting enough men on base. We need to takes some walks and start using the opposite field. I hope our hitters took note that Barajas won the game for Texas by dumping the ball down the right-field line. That hit looks just as good as a shot in the gap. Sometimes you have to take an opposite-field approach against a tough pitcher.

Jerko
07-21-2004, 12:05 PM
Rolen/Edmonds = good speed
Konerko = not so much

If he bunts it right back to the pitcher, that's almost a guaranteed twin killing.

I'm not saying it would have worked (acutally, I hate bunting); I'm just saying that better hitters than Paulie have been asked by their respective managers to bunt. I wish he WOULD have hit a 3 run shot right there. There were more reasons for losing that game last night than Paulie's DP.

TornLabrum
07-21-2004, 01:16 PM
And the reason is that Ozzie MAY have fallen to the allure of the long ball threat. A balanced attack is the way to go, which is why Cleveland is scary because they can do it all as well...

If they only had a bullpen.
I agree, and a balanced attack is having good speed and/or bat handling and OBP for your 1-2, sluggers 3-6 (with good OBP for the #3 guy), and again people in the 7-9 slots who can do the little things...i.e. play small ball.

Name me a team that has their #3-5 or 6 guys bunt. Hell, even the Go-Go Sox didn't have guys like Lollar (a good approximation of Konerko at least in terms of speed) bunting.

TornLabrum
07-21-2004, 01:17 PM
Hit it to the right side, and all you get is a 4-6-3 DP. He had only two options there - bunt or drive the ball - that's it.
And I'd rather see Paulie driving the ball.

MikeW
07-21-2004, 10:06 PM
The best way to avoid a prolonged losing streak is too learn how to do the fundamentals. The Sox the last few years especially,live or die with the longball. I call it the ESPN mentality. They don't show bunts or hit and run execution on the highlight films. How many times have the Sox gone out and scored a bunch of runs and the next day come up empty? You are only going to win if you learn to do the little things. When the long ball is not there,you have to learn how to manufacture
runs once in a while.

Tragg
07-21-2004, 10:08 PM
I thought "Ozzie Ball" consisted of playing small ball and utilizing our speed??

Arowand was up there hacking tonight 3-0 with a runner on first down by a run and NO OUTS!!!!

This makes me soooo mad. Smallball and doing correct fundamentals wins ballgames!:angry:
We don't have the hitters for small-ball. we have power, not OBP. Anything more than situational bunting would kill us.