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pudge
07-20-2004, 05:30 PM
Anyone else now convinced of this??

doublem23
07-20-2004, 05:34 PM
No. The biggest threat in the Central to us walking away with this is us.

hold2dibber
07-20-2004, 05:34 PM
Anyone else now convinced of this??
I'm not convinced they're MORE of a threat than Minnesota, but I think they're a threat. I'd be surprised if Cleveland wins the 85 to 90 games I think it will take to win this division, but they may be close and it certainly looks like they may be dominating this division within a year or two.

OEO Magglio
07-20-2004, 05:36 PM
I'm not convinced they're MORE of a threat than Minnesota, but I think they're a threat. I'd be surprised if Cleveland wins the 85 to 90 games I think it will take to win this division, but they may be close and it certainly looks like they may be dominating this division within a year or two.I agree with everything you said. However even though it looks like the Indians might dominate this division for years to come, the same thing was said about the White Sox in 2000, so we'll just have to wait and see but on paper it definitely looks like Cleveland will be a threat for years.

Dice
07-20-2004, 05:45 PM
No. The biggest threat in the Central to us walking away with this is us.
I agree. We are the biggest threat. This division is for the Sox to win or loose.

PorkChopExpress
07-20-2004, 06:33 PM
Right now they look hot and are currently pounding the Angels into oblivion. Hafner hit three homers, and they got 14 runs so far. Mind you this was off Washburn and Rodriguez at least. I hope they fall apart after big wins like we sometimes do and go scoreless against the White Sox. They have five guys in their lineup today that are hitting over .300. We would be stupid to think they are not a threat. That being said, let's beat them like we need to do with everyone in our division, period.

johnny_mostil
07-20-2004, 08:00 PM
No. The biggest threat in the Central to us walking away with this is us.
The second biggest threat is Minnesota pulling its head out of its posterior, flushing the chaff on their roster (Jose Offerman), and deciding to win this thing.

Other than Victor Martinez, this Cleveland team strikes me as a flash in the pan, like the Royals were last year. How can so much individual success translate to so few wins? Answer: something's not real?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-20-2004, 08:08 PM
Zzzz... Zzzzz... Zzzzzzz...

Call me when Cleveland gets over .500. Then I'll have further comment.

Ditto Detroit.

doublem23
07-20-2004, 08:08 PM
The second biggest threat is Minnesota pulling its head out of its posterior, flushing the chaff on their roster (Jose Offerman), and deciding to win this thing.
Please. Don't make the mistake of overestimating the Twins. The Sox should have won the last two division titles had they not completely imploded. While the Twins are the second biggest threat to the Sox, the Sox beating themselves is the winner in this category by a few miles.

copyhead
07-20-2004, 09:15 PM
Other than Victor Martinez, this Cleveland team strikes me as a flash in the pan, like the Royals were last year. How can so much individual success translate to so few wins? Answer: something's not real?
real answer: a bullpen from hell that has blown 22 saves so far (and still counting)

Frank the Tank
07-20-2004, 09:25 PM
Anyone else now convinced of this??
In a way I hope so, and that it stays that way for years. I love to hate Cleveland much more than the Twins. I would love to see a sox/cleveland rivalry in the AL central in the future.

DannyCaterFan
07-20-2004, 10:11 PM
I'm a believer. The way the Sox are playing, they just may let the Indians and even the Tigers creep closer than they should be.

California Sox
07-20-2004, 10:19 PM
I'm a believer. The way the Sox are playing, they just may let the Indians and even the Tigers creep closer than they should be.
If Maggs and Frank are both out KC gonna be a threat. :(:

gobears1987
07-20-2004, 10:22 PM
They are a threat, but not as big of one as the Twins. The Tigers may be our biggest problem, but then again Ozzie won't roll over and die like Ghandi

Corlose 15
07-20-2004, 10:31 PM
I agree with everything you said. However even though it looks like the Indians might dominate this division for years to come, the same thing was said about the White Sox in 2000, so we'll just have to wait and see but on paper it definitely looks like Cleveland will be a threat for years.
Small difference though. The Indians aren't the White Sox. Most likely the Indians won't find some way to screw up their rebuilding. The Indians have actually been to the WS in the last 44 years.

pissonthecubs
07-20-2004, 10:40 PM
I agree with everything you said. However even though it looks like the Indians might dominate this division for years to come, the same thing was said about the White Sox in 2000, so we'll just have to wait and see but on paper it definitely looks like Cleveland will be a threat for years.
I agree. that is all we heard during 2000 season and playoffs (while they lasted). everyone would be around and everyone would be on they way to the HOF. i do think in the next year or two this will be a 3 team divison. maybe 4 teams if the tigers can keep it together and add some pieces in the off season. but for this season, we need to keep beating the Twinkies and be careful with the Tigers, we know how last year we had such a tough time with them. half the games they won where against the sox.

pudge
07-20-2004, 11:59 PM
real answer: a bullpen from hell that has blown 22 saves so far (and still counting)
I shudder to think how far in first they'd be if they had any kind of a pen this season.

mmmmmbeeer
07-21-2004, 01:24 AM
If we lose both games to them we will only be 1.5 games ahead of them in the standings. Cleveland is very scary and very real. Detroit is playing past their potential, Cleveland is playing under their potential. That's why we should definitely be concerned with Cleveland. Especially with MN just losing Mauer again, the Twins are that much weaker.

South Side
07-21-2004, 01:32 AM
Well, it all comes down to how we play head to head against everyone in the Central. It's time for the losing every OTHER game to end... We need to string together some wins starting tomorrow.

OurBitchinMinny
07-21-2004, 03:06 AM
Cleveland is a threat. And if you put a gun to my head and asked me who I thought would win the division, it would be cleveland. They are hitting better right now and their top 3 starters are better. They do have a bad pen, but ours is nothing to brag about. Our second best guy lost the game in texas tonight. I still think its gonna come down to sox, twins and tribe. I would worry about both teams especially if they go out and make a move or two. If the sox play like they are capable of, they should win the division by 8-10 games, but they havent and nothing has shown me they will. win 4, lose 5. Too streaky. I hoep Im wrong, but cleveland is poised to go on another run like they did in the 90s. Hopefully not until next year though

smithin
07-21-2004, 06:40 AM
Cleveland isn't going to make any moves this year. They have already stated they do't want to give up any of the great minor league talent they have. Next year was the year they were aiming to start going after it, so the GM has already stated, they will just go with what they have this year.

SSN721
07-21-2004, 06:52 AM
I definitely consider them a threat this year. Not necessarily a threat to win the division, but definitely strong enough to hurt us in our remaining games with them. ANd my hopes arent much higher having to face Lee (10-1, 6-0 at home) and Sabathia, who just seems to own us. their rotation is decent, great lineup, if they pick up some pieces for the pen in the offseason they could easily be division favorites or at least as much of a threat as Minny or the Sox to win it next year. I still want to beleive they are one year away though. I hope. :(:

copyhead
07-21-2004, 07:03 AM
Cleveland isn't going to make any moves this year. They have already stated they do't want to give up any of the great minor league talent they have. Next year was the year they were aiming to start going after it, so the GM has already stated, they will just go with what they have this year.
this is correct

our target year is 2005, but some unexpected results in the upcoming games may prompt a minor move or two to try and speed up the "plan" (as we like to call it) a bit

we'll see how the cards unfold..

hsnterprize
07-21-2004, 08:28 AM
I respect both Minnesota and Cleveland, but like other posters have said, the Sox are their own worst enemy in winning the division.

If there's one word that drives a dagger into Sox fans like me, it's "potential". This team has WAY TOO MUCH potential to win, and win big. But for some strange reason, they fall short when their big guns are needed the most. Even though Frank's hurt right now, they can't his injury as an excuse. They did okay without Magglio...not stellar, but good enough to maintain a winning edge. Now, everyone has to step up...simple as that.

gosox41
07-21-2004, 09:04 AM
Anyone else now convinced of this??
Maybe next year. Before the season started there was a thread that was about the AL Central. I said Cleveland could be the surpise team in this year. I was one of the few. Give this team a couple of more arms in the bullpen and next year we could be chasing them.


Bob

3Peater
07-21-2004, 12:52 PM
this is correct

our target year is 2005, but some unexpected results in the upcoming games may prompt a minor move or two to try and speed up the "plan" (as we like to call it) a bit

we'll see how the cards unfold..
Vizquel to the Cubs rumors are cranking up. Would shipping off Omar hurt the Tribe?

Lip Man 1
07-21-2004, 12:59 PM
Do I think either Cleveland or Detroit is going to win the Central...no.

Do I think Cleveland or Detroit will determine who does win the Central...yes.

Some folks here at WSI have been touting the fact that the Sox have a 'soft' September schedule as the main reason for optimism that the Sox will still win this thing.

Just curious...how 'soft' are the Cleveland and Detroit schedules? That could also be a big factor in this.

Lip

CanOfCorn
07-21-2004, 01:02 PM
I don't think I'd be inaccurate in saying that Cleveland isn't going to win the division, but they are going to f--- some s--- up.

I don't normally use that phrase, but I think that about phrases it perfectly.

eshunn2001
07-21-2004, 01:22 PM
Yeah, I think Cleveland is a huge threat to the First place Twins. Maybe more so than the ever so consistant Whitesox. Seriously.

Over By There
07-21-2004, 01:32 PM
Vizquel to the Cubs rumors are cranking up. Would shipping off Omar hurt the Tribe?

I was just reading an article by Gammons that they apparently have a stud SS prospect named Jhonny Peralta that's the heir apparent, whenever Vizquel leaves/retires. Didn't say much about him, except that he's hitting .340 at Buffalo.

copyhead
07-21-2004, 01:44 PM
Vizquel to the Cubs rumors are cranking up. Would shipping off Omar hurt the Tribe?
well it obviously would to a certain degree, i mean Omar's great D and solid bat, combined with all those years of experience he has, aren't just going to be replaced without a blink by the next guy

we do, however, have two very promising shortstops in the wings at AAA in Brandon Phillips (23 years old, batting .308 with 18 doubles and 5HR at AAA, gold glove caliber defense) and Jhonny Peralta (22 years old, batting .329 with 31 doubles and 10HR at AAA, average defensively)... we like to believe at least one of those two will be able to step up and become our shortstop of the future

note that Omar has a no trade clause in his contract though, which means he would have to approve of any trade the Indians might make involving him...

gosox41
07-21-2004, 02:46 PM
Vizquel to the Cubs rumors are cranking up. Would shipping off Omar hurt the Tribe?
At least we know that Cleveland isn't going to be like Pittsburgh and just give him away for nothing.


Bob

Clarkdog
07-21-2004, 04:07 PM
No. The biggest threat in the Central to us walking away with this is us.
I would like to nomimate this for post of the season.