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bennyw41
07-20-2004, 09:59 AM
Although last night was a good victory, seeing the offense flourish, seeing Schoney come to life a little, I am very worried about the Bullpen. All of the guys that came in have ERA's over 4, and some of them are really horrible. Anyone got any good relievers that may be available, or have heard rumors about coming over?

PorkChopExpress
07-20-2004, 10:05 AM
I have wanted to try and get B.J. Ryan from Baltimore as a setup guy, maybe along with a Roberts, or Hairston, or even Javy Lopez, but I don't know if Baltimore is willing to trade or not. Just a thought.

bennyw41
07-20-2004, 10:07 AM
I have wanted to try and get B.J. Ryan from Baltimore as a setup guy, maybe along with a Roberts, or Hairston, or even Javy Lopez, but I don't know if Baltimore is willing to trade or not. Just a thought.
I like the B.J. Ryan idea....thats it though.

elrod
07-20-2004, 10:29 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about the bullpen based on last night's game. MJ was brought in in garbage time. And then Cotts pitched well. Adkins stunk in the 9th, reminded us why he also is a garbage time pitcher. When the bullpen gives up runs in a close game then it's time for concern. The run late in the A's game hurt, but we were already losing. Frankly, I haven't seen our bullpen pitch poorly in close situations in a long time. Especially with Politte finally showing what he can do I wouldn't worry too much about the pen. Of course, watch today Marte and Shingo give up 5 runs in the ninth...:o:

fuzzy_patters
07-20-2004, 10:57 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about the bullpen based on last night's game. MJ was brought in in garbage time. And then Cotts pitched well. Adkins stunk in the 9th, reminded us why he also is a garbage time pitcher. When the bullpen gives up runs in a close game then it's time for concern. The run late in the A's game hurt, but we were already losing. Frankly, I haven't seen our bullpen pitch poorly in close situations in a long time. Especially with Politte finally showing what he can do I wouldn't worry too much about the pen. Of course, watch today Marte and Shingo give up 5 runs in the ninth...:o:
The fact that Adkins and Jackson both suck is cause for concern. It is okay to have a mop-up pitcher, but I don't think we need two of them. That's a roster spot a quality player could have.

mcfish
07-20-2004, 11:02 AM
The fact that Adkins and Jackson both suck is cause for concern. It is okay to have a mop-up pitcher, but I don't think we need two of them. That's a roster spot a quality player could have.
Hey - Cotts sucks too. His .090 ERA in April in 10 innings has been followed by a 7.00 in 9 innings in May, 8.68 in 9.1 innings in June, and 7.36 in 3.2 innings so far in July.

bennyw41
07-20-2004, 11:06 AM
Hey - Cotts sucks too. His .090 ERA in April in 10 innings has been followed by a 7.00 in 9 innings in May, 8.68 in 9.1 innings in June, and 7.36 in 3.2 innings so far in July.
Exactly my point. It is okay to have one mop up, but it seems like we have 3 or 4 mop ups.

jabrch
07-20-2004, 11:07 AM
When you have a lead like we did, reliever's job's are to throw strikes. If you get hit - fine - big fricking deal. Some of those hits might even score runs - but the majority of the balls that hitters make contact with will end up as outs. You can give up lots of runs and still win. It is very different pitching with an 8 run lead than when you pitch in a tight game.

Chez
07-20-2004, 11:08 AM
Kelly Wunsch?!

bennyw41
07-20-2004, 11:09 AM
When you have a lead like we did, reliever's job's are to throw strikes. If you get hit - fine - big fricking deal. Some of those hits might even score runs - but the majority of the balls that hitters make contact with will end up as outs. You can give up lots of runs and still win. It is very different pitching with an 8 run lead than when you pitch in a tight game.
Yes, this is true, but I'm not using last night as an example, the bullpen outside marte and shingo has consistently sucked.

mcfish
07-20-2004, 11:15 AM
When you have a lead like we did, reliever's job's are to throw strikes. If you get hit - fine - big fricking deal. Some of those hits might even score runs - but the majority of the balls that hitters make contact with will end up as outs. You can give up lots of runs and still win. It is very different pitching with an 8 run lead than when you pitch in a tight game.
What about tie games and games when we're down 3-4 runs? It's not like Mike Jackson hasn't been in these situations. And Cotts is used in tight situations. And Adkins lost not 1 but 2 games in the 10th inning. The one in Oakland was blamed on Koch by the fans, so noone said anything about Jon, but he was the one giving up a HR in the bottom of the 10th - Koch got out of his inning.

Irishsox1
07-20-2004, 11:19 AM
Getting Koch out of there was huge, but now the Sox have to get someone to replace Mike Jackson and Adkins. I wish the Sox still had Scott Sullivan. Kenny will make a move. He always does.

jabrch
07-20-2004, 11:20 AM
Yes, this is true, but I'm not using last night as an example, the bullpen outside marte and shingo has consistently sucked.
I'd say Politte has been effective since his first few outings. He isn't terrible. Adkins has also been somewhat effective. Other than 3 outings, he has given up 5 ER in 26 innings.

I don't think the pen is nearly as big a disaster, since unloading Gascan Billy, as you make it sound. That said, Mike Jackson has sucked since June - royally -and needs to be replaced if he can't revert to his April/May performance level. On the bright side - he doesn't walk many hitters, he just gets hit.

jabrch
07-20-2004, 11:21 AM
What about tie games and games when we're down 3-4 runs? It's not like Mike Jackson hasn't been in these situations. And Cotts is used in tight situations. And Adkins lost not 1 but 2 games in the 10th inning. The one in Oakland was blamed on Koch by the fans, so noone said anything about Jon, but he was the one giving up a HR in the bottom of the 10th - Koch got out of his inning.Jackson shouldn't be in in tight games unless he gets back to where he was in April and May. Adkins has been good baring a few outings. For a young kid, I'd take what he's given us.

Foulke You
07-20-2004, 11:53 AM
I feel that we only have 3 quality relievers. Polite, Marte, and Shingo. You can get away with 3 quality guys when your starters go deep in games but as soon as you have an outing where a starter has to throw a lot of pitches and gets lifted in the 5th or 6th, that is when you have to call on those 4th, 5th, and 6th pitchers in the bullpen to get the job done and I just don't feel comfortable with Cotts, Adkins, or Jackson. I think KW knows we need another middle reliever and I feel pretty confident that he'll find someone soon. I've heard the Royals might be shopping Sullivan again. As long as KW has revisited a 2003 pickup in Everett, why not go for #2 and pick Sully up again?

Anybody know what teams are shopping as far as relievers go? I've heard Urbina and Shigetoshi Hasegawa's names mentioned. Reliever trades don't garner as much media coverage as starters or position players.

JB98
07-20-2004, 12:26 PM
I feel that we only have 3 quality relievers. Polite, Marte, and Shingo. You can get away with 3 quality guys when your starters go deep in games but as soon as you have an outing where a starter has to throw a lot of pitches and gets lifted in the 5th or 6th, that is when you have to call on those 4th, 5th, and 6th pitchers in the bullpen to get the job done and I just don't feel comfortable with Cotts, Adkins, or Jackson. I think KW knows we need another middle reliever and I feel pretty confident that he'll find someone soon. I've heard the Royals might be shopping Sullivan again. As long as KW has revisited a 2003 pickup in Everett, why not go for #2 and pick Sully up again?

Anybody know what teams are shopping as far as relievers go? I've heard Urbina and Shigetoshi Hasegawa's names mentioned. Reliever trades don't garner as much media coverage as starters or position players.
Hasegawa, Sullivan and Kerry Lightenberg are the three I've heard mentioned. We definitely need another right-handed middle reliever. I'm not so worried about Cotts. He threw well last night, and he threw well in that game where the Sox came back vs. Anaheim. I think it's just a matter of confidence with him. He has the stuff to succeed. Not so with Jackson and Adkins. Jackson's slider is flat, and he doesn't have much velocity on his heater anymore. Adkins has a good fastball, but not much else. We can't just rely on Politte to be the right-handed middle man. He's throwing the ball exceptionally well right now, but he's had his ups and downs too. If he goes into another down cycle, we need another guy we can rely on.

OEO Magglio
07-20-2004, 12:50 PM
Urbina, shiggy, and Guardado are probably the biggest names available. Lightenberg is available, Terry Adams, and a guy who really interestst me that is available is Jorge Julio.

Huisj
07-20-2004, 01:34 PM
i bet jon rauch could do a decent job in a middle relief role . . . oh wait, oops

OEO Magglio
07-20-2004, 01:48 PM
i bet jon rauch could do a decent job in a middle relief role . . . oh wait, oops:rolleyes:

habibharu
07-20-2004, 01:50 PM
we should have gone after mike dejean. the mets just acquired him yesterday, with karimm garcia.

jabrch
07-20-2004, 02:05 PM
we should have gone after mike dejean. the mets just acquired him yesterday, with karimm garcia.
DeJean has been TERRIBLE this year. Worse than Koch. I'd rather have Jackson - believe it or not.

habibharu
07-20-2004, 02:06 PM
DeJean has been TERRIBLE this year. Worse than Koch. I'd rather have Jackson - believe it or not.true, but he has been good in the past as a closer, and i wouldnt mind taking a chance on him

jabrch
07-20-2004, 02:10 PM
true, but he has been good in the past as a closer, and i wouldnt mind taking a chance on him

While I see your point - I don't want to be taking any chances right now. I'd rather pay market value and get more of a sure thing. DeJean has been BRUTAL.

fuzzy_patters
07-20-2004, 03:19 PM
I hope the Sox can get a veteran reliever or two because I would prefer a sure thing with the Sox in the race. However, if they cannot does anyone think allowing Diaz to pitch relief would be a good idea? In 2000 JM used MB and JG against favorable matchups in long/middle relief roles, and I think it particularly helped Buehrle a lot. He got a chance to learn the tendencies of major league hitters and to develop confidence in himself in low pressure situations. Besides, we have to have dozens of pitchers on the farm with better stuff than Mike Jackson. That guy's arm is dead.