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View Full Version : Crede should be benched for a couple games


Foulke You
07-19-2004, 03:23 PM
Let me preface this thread by saying that I am a Joe Crede fan, however, his play of late has been dreadful. The guy just has not been getting the job done out there both in the field and especially the bat. He dropped a few pop ups this weekend that should probably have been caught despite the high sky in Oakland and his approach at the plate has been atrocious especially with runners in scoring postition. Crede's swing is as slow, uppercut, and loopy as I've ever seen it during his White Sox career. He is in 0-2 and 1-2 counts all the time and I can't remember the last time the guy took a walk. He is either a pop up or a K waiting to happen recently.

What bothers me is there seems to be no response from the dugout to his atrocious play. I understand that we don't have a lot of options at 3B but I think Crede may have gotten too comfortable in that starting role and perhaps sitting down a couple games is what he needs to snap out of his funk. Right now he is hurting the team. Sometimes guys who think they are on the verge of losing their starting job get sparked into better play. I'd put Uribe at 3B for the Texas series and then see what Crede does against the Tribe after sitting for a little bit.

Any thoughts?

bobj4400
07-19-2004, 03:27 PM
Let me preface this thread by saying that I am a Joe Crede fan, however, his play of late has been dreadful. The guy just has not been getting the job done out there both in the field and especially the bat. He dropped a few pop ups this weekend that should probably have been caught despite the high sky in Oakland and his approach at the plate has been atrocious especially with runners in scoring postition. Crede's swing is as slow, uppercut, and loopy as I've ever seen it during his White Sox career. He is in 0-2 and 1-2 counts all the time and I can't remember the last time the guy took a walk. He is either a pop up or a K waiting to happen recently.

What bothers me is there seems to be no response from the dugout to his atrocious play. I understand that we don't have a lot of options at 3B but I think Crede may have gotten too comfortable in that starting role and perhaps sitting down a couple games is what he needs to snap out of his funk. Right now he is hurting the team. Sometimes guys who think they are on the verge of losing their starting job get sparked into better play. I'd put Uribe at 3B for the Texas series and then see what Crede does against the Tribe after sitting for a little bit.

Any thoughts?
Although Crede has not been playing well, we cant afford to lose his defense. We arent scoring runs as it is, so we need to play the best defense possible. Also, Uribe has been just as terrible as Crede at the plate lately, so we would be sacrificing defense for nothing...

Tekijawa
07-19-2004, 03:27 PM
Any thoughts?
I couldn't Agree less...

fuzzy_patters
07-19-2004, 03:28 PM
Let me preface this thread by saying that I am a Joe Crede fan, however, his play of late has been dreadful. The guy just has not been getting the job done out there both in the field and especially the bat. He dropped a few pop ups this weekend that should probably have been caught despite the high sky in Oakland and his approach at the plate has been atrocious especially with runners in scoring postition. Crede's swing is as slow, uppercut, and loopy as I've ever seen it during his White Sox career. He is in 0-2 and 1-2 counts all the time and I can't remember the last time the guy took a walk. He is either a pop up or a K waiting to happen recently.

What bothers me is there seems to be no response from the dugout to his atrocious play. I understand that we don't have a lot of options at 3B but I think Crede may have gotten too comfortable in that starting role and perhaps sitting down a couple games is what he needs to snap out of his funk. Right now he is hurting the team. Sometimes guys who think they are on the verge of losing their starting job get sparked into better play. I'd put Uribe at 3B for the Texas series and then see what Crede does against the Tribe after sitting for a little bit.

Any thoughts?
Crede looked hesitant going after the flyballs which is a sure sign of lossed confidence. The Sox should hold him out until they find some favorable match-ups so he can find his stroke. With confidence at the plate, I think he will find confidence in the field. When he plays third aggressively, he is one heck of a third basemen, but he needs to feel good to play aggressively.

Foulke You
07-19-2004, 03:34 PM
I couldn't Agree less...Could you expand a little on these thoughts? I'm not saying Uribe is the answer as he hasn't been hot at the plate either but Crede has been like having a pitcher bat recently. Also, someone posted a stat on these boards recently that showed Crede to have the second WORST batting avg with runners in scoring position. How many times in the last few weeks have we seen him come up to bat after the middle of the lineup guys get on base for him with 1 out only to have him not even be able to move the runners along?

I'm not saying bench him for good, just a game or two. Crede is going to be a huge part of this team but we need him to wake up and snap out of this. He hasn't shown ANY signs of life recently. I was hoping the All Star Break would help but that didn't do the trick either. I'd be willing to sacrifice some defense at 3B for one or two games if it will benefit Crede getting back on track again. Right now, I don't think leading the lamb (Crede) to slaughter again is going to help.

fado
07-19-2004, 03:48 PM
The thing that shows me that he has gotten as hesitant as ever was the foul ball yesterday that almost knocked him out. He gave up on the ball and it landed three feet in front of him. I know that you guys say that when he's on, he a very aggressive third baseman, but in the past I've always noticed that on balls thrown to him for either a steal attempt or to tag someone out trying to advance to third he always looks to me like he's a little frightened of getting nailed by the runner. Does anyone else see this or is it just that I :gulp: too much.

Sox Mobile
07-19-2004, 03:49 PM
I hardly think it fair to have expected Crede to "snap out of it" against Oakland pitching! I think it would be a mistake to bench him for the Texas games. He just might string something together against them.

and with the Texas offense, we need Joes glove.

lets face it, without a 100 million dollar budget you cant have a .300 hitter at every position.

i think he will come around, we have faced alot of good pitching during the interleague play, followed by Oakland. pretty tough on a guy thats stuggling to begin with.

i look for a huge improvement in Crede in the near future!!

Tekijawa
07-19-2004, 03:53 PM
Could you expand a little on these thoughts? I'm not saying Uribe is the answer as he hasn't been hot at the plate either but Crede has been like having a pitcher bat recently. Also, someone posted a stat on these boards recently that showed Crede to have the second WORST batting avg with runners in scoring position. How many times in the last few weeks have we seen him come up to bat after the middle of the lineup guys get on base for him with 1 out only to have him not even be able to move the runners along?

I'm not saying bench him for good, just a game or two. Crede is going to be a huge part of this team but we need him to wake up and snap out of this. He hasn't shown ANY signs of life recently. I was hoping the All Star Break would help but that didn't do the trick either. I'd be willing to sacrifice some defense at 3B for one or two games if it will benefit Crede getting back on track again. Right now, I don't think leading the lamb (Crede) to slaughter again is going to help.
Everyone and their Grandma was talking about the sun being in they eyes of just about every pop up, Lee Dropped one, I think Kotsay did too. Vida Blue was talking about how bad it was. I think that if it were mental errors he wouldn't be missing the ball by 5 feet. I think he legitimately couldn't see. As for his resent "SLUMP" I don't know it you watched the rest of the team but if you were manager Rowand would be the only one that deserves to play after these past three games! Crede's Glove is why hes on this team, if he gets a hit 24% of the time that's a bonus... I don't think that the 7-8 spot is supposed to be driving in 100 RBI's anyway... CREDE Should not leave the lineup for more than 1 game at most!

ND_Sox_Fan
07-19-2004, 03:57 PM
Without some swing changes Joe is not just going to "snap" out of it any time soon. I wouldn't mind seeing him take some time off to work on it.

He is "wrapping" the bat as the pitcher goes to deliver the ball and this is what is causing his swing to be so incredibly long, loopy, and slow. By wrapping I mean the barrel of the bat tips towards the pitcher over his head. This only forces his swing to be longer as the barrel has to travel farther to get back into the hitting zone. He will not be consistent until they change this.

Once in a while the ball is going to run into his bat, but other than that he will continue to pop out or K. The pop outs and Ks are a result of his timing being thrown off by his lengthened swing.

I would suggest that he changes his hand position to something more like Aaron Rowand has - where he would really have to make a big movement to wrap the bat.

the_valenstache
07-19-2004, 04:06 PM
I agree with the intent of this post. I'm not usually the doom-and-gloom type and generally blindly support every member of this team, but Crede's latest slump has been unbearable to watch. It seems like the only time he hits is when the rest of the team is ice cold. But even that is irregular.

Like clockwork, someone will reply and post all these stats to disprove the idea of Crede being in a slump, but I think there are some subjective intangibles to consider, which Foulke_You brings up. He simply looks awful at the plate lately. His hacks are discouraging; he rarely even makes "good contact" on foul balls.

Of course, I love Joe playing 3rd (90% of the time, other 10? re:this weekend) and what makes this slump so painful is that we all know how he can hit when he's doing everything right. Although the "THIS THREAD SUCKS" guy is inevitable, I'm sure, I agree that we need SOMETHING to shake Joe up and get him back to a level of performance we can appreciate.

joeynach
07-19-2004, 04:06 PM
Let me preface this thread by saying that I am a Joe Crede fan, however, his play of late has been dreadful. The guy just has not been getting the job done out there both in the field and especially the bat. He dropped a few pop ups this weekend that should probably have been caught despite the high sky in Oakland and his approach at the plate has been atrocious especially with runners in scoring postition. Crede's swing is as slow, uppercut, and loopy as I've ever seen it during his White Sox career. He is in 0-2 and 1-2 counts all the time and I can't remember the last time the guy took a walk. He is either a pop up or a K waiting to happen recently.

What bothers me is there seems to be no response from the dugout to his atrocious play. I understand that we don't have a lot of options at 3B but I think Crede may have gotten too comfortable in that starting role and perhaps sitting down a couple games is what he needs to snap out of his funk. Right now he is hurting the team. Sometimes guys who think they are on the verge of losing their starting job get sparked into better play. I'd put Uribe at 3B for the Texas series and then see what Crede does against the Tribe after sitting for a little bit.

Any thoughts?
I like crede but he is killing us, especially with Oz batting him like 6th. Ouch. I really think he needs to spend about a week or two in AAA to find his swing. Remeber the sox did that with Rowand last April and he came back on fire. I really think crede would benefit from a little time to find himself again with no pressure.

Foulke You
07-19-2004, 04:38 PM
As for his resent "SLUMP" I don't know it you watched the rest of the team but if you were manager Rowand would be the only one that deserves to play after these past three games! Crede's Glove is why hes on this team, if he gets a hit 24% of the time that's a bonus... I don't think that the 7-8 spot is supposed to be driving in 100 RBI's anyway... CREDE Should not leave the lineup for more than 1 game at most!
I would not use quotation marks to describe Crede's slump. The guy is in a slump, PERIOD. I don't make these comments about Crede based on what he has done against only Oakland as you suggest. This has been a prolonged slump for him. With the team struggling for offense right now, we can't afford to have Crede stranding runners constantly with a .150 RISP avg. As ND_Sox_Fan pointed out, the problem appears to be in his loopy swing and nothing from the dugout is addressing this. Even his outs have not been productive as he frequently skies a popup at the cut of the infield grass, strikes out, or grounds out weakly to the SS.

If sitting out 2 or 3 games and working some extra sessions with Greg Walker gets his stroke back, then I'm for it but I don't know how much longer this team can wait for him to snap out of this. The stakes are too high this year. He isn't hitting at all and in the American League where many of the lineups are stacked top to bottom with hitters, we can't have Crede killing us in the 6 or 7 hole if we plan to contend.

soxfan45
07-19-2004, 04:54 PM
I am so sorry that we didn't ship him off versus Olivo.
Crede has done nothing. Look at his numbers versus
other AL 3rd basemen ranked by ESPN statistics.
(used 11 as a qualified at bat at 3rd base)
He is a head case with no confidence.
We've given this guy so many chances. He just isn't
getting the job done.

Average: rank #10 .233
OPB: rank #11 .288
SLG: rank #8 .414
Hits: rank #9 68
HR: rank #9 12

Rocky Soprano
07-19-2004, 05:01 PM
His defense sucks too!


:threadsucks

Tekijawa
07-19-2004, 05:08 PM
we can't have Crede killing us in the 6 or 7 hole if we plan to contend.
I bet there are at least 10 teams that would KILL to have crede "killing them" in the 6-7 hole!

ND_Sox_Fan
07-19-2004, 05:27 PM
I bet there are at least 10 teams that would KILL to have crede "killing them" in the 6-7 hole!They would hardly be considered contenders either!!

mcfish
07-19-2004, 05:28 PM
lets face it, without a 100 million dollar budget you cant have a .300 hitter at every position.
We don't have any .300 hitters. Not a single one. Aaron is at .295. In fact, we almost never do have any .300 hitters with the exception of Maggs and sometimes Frank. I don't know how, but I think a big priority for us should be to get someone, anyone to hit for average.

soxfan45
07-19-2004, 06:59 PM
Its hard to believe that management has been so patient with Joe.
I agree, its painful to watch the guy. I just wonder if he has the
mental makeup to play baseball. He suffers from ulcers, never sleeps,
etc.. worrying about how bad he is playing. This has been going on
for several years. I think we are just worried that he is going to
go somewhere where there is less pressure and hit 25 HR and hit
.270. I haven't seen anything to suggest that is going to happen here.

Unfortuantly, he has too big of a swing in a predomienelty right handed
power hitting lineup. Trouble is, Joe never gets hot like Lee, Mags, or
Pauly so hes not worth having in there.

He certainly is NOT the kind of right handed batter we need in this
lineup. We need someone who will make contact. Joe has no speed
and believe it or not, has grounded into 10 double plays which is #11 in the
league. Everyone above him, Tejada, Scheffield, A-Rod, Posoda, etcc
are at least worth a darn.