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View Full Version : *Official* postgame thread 7-18-04


Daver
07-18-2004, 05:27 PM
Failure in the bay area again.......

Evman5
07-18-2004, 05:27 PM
damn, terrible at bat by Paulie to end it.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-18-2004, 05:28 PM
there is only one emoticon that can show my feelings after today's game: :angry:

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:29 PM
Sometimes, I really hate this team. :angry:

Evman5
07-18-2004, 05:30 PM
5-9 in the lineup was 0-16 that is pathetic

Mohoney
07-18-2004, 05:31 PM
Huge loss. Maybe now we will realize that Cotts can't be trusted and Jackson can't pitch over inherited runners. If we kept Oakland at 4 runs, we might have had a chance. Instead, Ozzie pulls a Manuel.

idseer
07-18-2004, 05:31 PM
c'mon. we should be overjoyed at just winning one. :smile:

greenpeach
07-18-2004, 05:31 PM
Well, at least the Flubs lost.

RKMeibalane
07-18-2004, 05:32 PM
September 15...

:hurt

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:32 PM
For any of you that want to defend them (Esteban) by talking about Mulder... keep in mind, we were leading 3-1. That's enough to win a game against Mulder! We should have won this game and I blame Loiaza... if you can't pitch don't go out there. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Aidan
07-18-2004, 05:32 PM
With Carl Everett starting in RF tomorrow, will Joe Borchard be the one sent down to the minors?

samram
07-18-2004, 05:33 PM
Well, one positive is that Esty's continued poor performance keeps the pressure on KW to pursue another starter. Loaiza is no better than a #5 the way he is throwing right now. No quality starts since the middle of June. Ick.

owensmouth
07-18-2004, 05:34 PM
Yeah, it's all E Lo's fault that the Sox got three hits. And it's E Lo's fault that Rowand missed that catch.

Evman5
07-18-2004, 05:34 PM
For any of you that want to defend them (Esteban) by talking about Mulder... keep in mind, we were leading 3-1. That's enough to win a game against Mulder! We should have won this game and I blame Loiaza... if you can't pitch don't go out there. :angry: :angry: :angry:
If your an ace pitcher you don't give up go ahead homers with 2 outs and an 0-2 count. Loazia needed to step up and he didn't. I don't really feel comfortable with any lead with Loaiza anymore.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:34 PM
c'mon. we should be overjoyed at just winning one. :smile:I'm sick of everyone using this whole Western underachieving crap as an excuse. I am not picking on you but yeah, maybe we should be overjoyed if we were a 3rd or 4th place team. It's time for them to suck it up and start playing like a first place competitive team.Twins win tonight and we're no longer in first place.

I didn't see teal so I assumed you were being serious.

HomeFish
07-18-2004, 05:36 PM
Ha! No four game sweep for you, Oakland! :bandance:

As for the rest of you, did you actually expect the Sox to do well out there? I'm pleasantly surprised at winning one out of four.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:36 PM
Yeah, it's all E Lo's fault that the Sox got three hits. And it's E Lo's fault that Rowand missed that catch.

Are you kidding me?? You are going to hold that against Rowand that he couldn't steal a homerun away from the A's??? And Loiaza pitched a perfect game...

Win1ForMe
07-18-2004, 05:36 PM
I'm trying to figure out if there's any other way that the Sox have yet to lose a ball game in Oakland. We've lost them early, lost them late, and lost them in the middle...

BTW, Joe Crede has to be the WORST regular on any contending team.

samram
07-18-2004, 05:37 PM
Yeah, it's all E Lo's fault that the Sox got three hits. And it's E Lo's fault that Rowand missed that catch.
He had a 3-1 lead going to the sixth inning. An All-Star pitcher takes care of business. Plus, I don't blame a CF for not robbing a homer.

Rudy Law
07-18-2004, 05:37 PM
The only way Konerko could have looked worse in that last at-bat was if Mark Mulder was pitching .......You got a 3-1 lead on Mulder you gotta win that game...Loaiza is giving up to many homeruns.....Also WILL YOU PITCH INSIDE....He kept going back to the same outside corner that was not getting called for strikes.....INSIDE.......Every time he misses his spots, its out over the plate.....Thats not gonna get it done...He has got to pick it up....One positive though is the play Aaron Rowand, he is on fire.

flo-B-flo
07-18-2004, 05:37 PM
Those SAP guys are truly saps.

Frankfan4life
07-18-2004, 05:38 PM
WHY? Why is it so hard to win on the West Coast? Why is it so hard to have both good pitching and good hitting in the same game? Why can't the Sox play like a first place team? Why can't we keep the lead in the poor, pitiful AL Central? I just wanna know WHY!

Now that I got that out of my system, I hope we can win at least one in Texas.

CWSGuy406
07-18-2004, 05:39 PM
Yeah, it's all E Lo's fault that the Sox got three hits. And it's E Lo's fault that Rowand missed that catch.
Are you truely being serious? I know it's in green, but I don't know which way to take it. The Sox got three runs off of Mulder. Sure, only three hits, but three runs should definitely be good enough to win against him, especially considering the Sox offense got ahead of him, 3-1. Loaiza blew it - he left a pitch right over the heart of the plate to Crosby, and he hit it out. Loaiza almost caught a break that he didn't deserve when Rowand almost caught it, but he didn't.

Plain and simple; Loaiza blew it.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:39 PM
Those SAP guys are truly saps.
Ugh, I switched it on once and it was like The Today show... they weren't even talking about the game. Hawk and DJ are just fine for me.

Mohoney
07-18-2004, 05:40 PM
BTW, Joe Crede has to be the WORST regular on any contending team.

It's quite possible.

idseer
07-18-2004, 05:40 PM
I'm sick of everyone using this whole Western underachieving crap as an excuse. I am not picking on you but yeah, maybe we should be overjoyed if we were a 3rd or 4th place team. It's time for them to suck it up and start playing like a first place competitive team.Twins win tonight and we're no longer in first place.

I didn't see teal so I assumed you were being serious.i AM serious. we did much better tha we had any reason to think.
i thought sure we'd lose them all.

greenpeach
07-18-2004, 05:40 PM
For any of you that want to defend them (Esteban) by talking about Mulder... keep in mind, we were leading 3-1. That's enough to win a game against Mulder! We should have won this game and I blame Loiaza... if you can't pitch don't go out there. :angry: :angry: :angry:
How dare you talk about our All-Star pitcher in such a derogatory way !!! After all, he's the ace of this dominating staff.

Evman5
07-18-2004, 05:41 PM
Yeah, it's all E Lo's fault that the Sox got three hits. And it's E Lo's fault that Rowand missed that catch.

Rowand is a gamer and he is giving it everything he has. He made a great attempt at that ball and went flying into the wall. Mulder one of the best pitchers in the game and Loaiza needed to step up when we gave him the lead.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:41 PM
Ha! No four game sweep for you, Oakland! :bandance:

As for the rest of you, did you actually expect the Sox to do well out there? I'm pleasantly surprised at winning one out of four.
Yeah, I actually did expect them to win when they were up 3-1 in the 6th was it? I am not going to glorify ****ty baseball. They're not playing right...

flo-B-flo
07-18-2004, 05:41 PM
The only way Konerko could have looked worse in that last at-bat was if Mark Mulder was pitching .......You got a 3-1 lead on Mulder you gotta win that game...Loaiza is giving up to many homeruns.....Also WILL YOU PITCH INSIDE....He kept going back to the same outside corner that was not getting called for strikes.....INSIDE.......Every time he misses his spots, its out over the plate.....Thats not gonna get it done...He has got to pick it up....One positive though is the play Aaron Rowand, he is on fire. 1-2 on Dye: double. 1-2 on Crosby : a homer that was almost stolen by Aaron R

owensmouth
07-18-2004, 05:41 PM
Are you kidding me?? You are going to hold that against Rowand that he couldn't steal a homerun away from the A's??? And Loiaza pitched a perfect game...
Loiaza was far from perfect, I agree. But Crash just plain missed that catch. As far as hitting is concerned (and I give Rowand credit here) we stunk. The White Sox have gotta hit better. Three hits over nine innings will guarantee you a loss.

Rudy Law
07-18-2004, 05:46 PM
Yeah, it's all E Lo's fault that the Sox got three hits. And it's E Lo's fault that Rowand missed that catch.
Its his fault that he gives up runs after every half inning the Sox scored...3 runs against Mulder the way he is pitching.....You can't expect to get more than that. It is also his fault he left a 1-2 pitch out over the plate to a guy who hit the ball really hard in his last at-bat

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:46 PM
i AM serious. we did much better tha we had any reason to think.
i thought sure we'd lose them all.
I might share your sentiments had we not been leading the WHOLE game. I can't comprehend having a single positive thought on the outcome of this game... Not one. Would you settle for winning 1 out of 4 at home? There is nothing in the air in Oakland nor in the water... no excuses. This stupid mental block in the West has to end sometime and I expected it to end today... it didn't happen.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:47 PM
Loiaza was far from perfect, I agree. But Crash just plain missed that catch. As far as hitting is concerned (and I give Rowand credit here) we stunk. The White Sox have gotta hit better. Three hits over nine innings will guarantee you a loss.

He missed it b/c it was home run and out of the park! How can you hold this against him?

Evman5
07-18-2004, 05:47 PM
Loiaza was far from perfect, I agree. But Crash just plain missed that catch. As far as hitting is concerned (and I give Rowand credit here) we stunk. The White Sox have gotta hit better. Three hits over nine innings will guarantee you a loss.
We have a lot of problems if we have to rely on our outfielders trying to catch balls out of the park to keep us in games.

soltrain21
07-18-2004, 05:48 PM
Loiaza was far from perfect, I agree. But Crash just plain missed that catch. As far as hitting is concerned (and I give Rowand credit here) we stunk. The White Sox have gotta hit better. Three hits over nine innings will guarantee you a loss.

MISSED?! He was running full speed and slammed the wall, he had no idea where it was. You make it sound like its HIS fault....that is crazy.



People need to get off Rowands back.

CWSGuy406
07-18-2004, 05:48 PM
Loiaza was far from perfect, I agree. But Crash just plain missed that catch. As far as hitting is concerned (and I give Rowand credit here) we stunk. The White Sox have gotta hit better. Three hits over nine innings will guarantee you a loss.
THEY WERE FACING MARK MULDER! *****. Rowand just plain missed it? There's about three players I can think of in all of the majors that MIGHT make that catch (Hunter, A. Jones, Beltran). I was surprised that Rowand even got his glove on it, that ball was absolutely ripped.

Like I said; Loaiza (not spelled Loiaza) blew it.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:49 PM
THEY WERE FACING MARK MULDER! *****. Rowand just plain missed it? There's about three players I can think of in all of the majors that MIGHT make that catch (Hunter, A. Jones, Beltran). I was surprised that Rowand even got his glove on it, that ball was absolutely ripped.

Like I said; Loaiza (not spelled Loiaza) blew it.
Absolutely...

Cowch44
07-18-2004, 05:51 PM
Our offense sucked but 3 runs is definetly enough to win a game. Rowand tried and failed, but it was gone either way, BTW Loaiza got lucky once off Dye, so two times in one game woulda been too much.

idseer
07-18-2004, 05:52 PM
I might share your sentiments had we not been leading the WHOLE game. I can't comprehend having a single positive thought on the outcome of this game... Not one. Would you settle for winning 1 out of 4 at home? There is nothing in the air in Oakland nor in the water... no excuses. This stupid mental block in the West has to end sometime and I expected it to end today... it didn't happen.
well hey ... it's not me with the block.

tell me, did you really have the confidence that elo was going to NOT give up more runs? i didn't. what happened didn't surprise me in the least.

Viva Magglio
07-18-2004, 05:53 PM
There are multiple reasons why we lost this game, but getting only three hits has to be the biggest one. The three runs we got with those three hits notwithstanding, you cannot get just three hits and expect to win.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:54 PM
well hey ... it's not me with the block.

tell me, did you really have the confidence that elo was going to NOT give up more runs? i didn't. what happened didn't surprise me in the least.
Yeah, I'm sorry to say I did. That's probably why I am the one that wants to scream.

JB98
07-18-2004, 05:54 PM
Huge loss. Maybe now we will realize that Cotts can't be trusted and Jackson can't pitch over inherited runners. If we kept Oakland at 4 runs, we might have had a chance. Instead, Ozzie pulls a Manuel.
You can't be serious. That's the exact situation where Ozzie has to use Cotts and Jackson. We have defined roles in our bullpen. Takatsu is the closer. Marte and Politte pitch in middle relief when the Sox have the lead. Cotts and Jackson pitch in middle relief when the Sox are trailing. Adkins is the long relief guy. Any time you have defined roles like that, that's a sign that the manager is using his bullpen correctly. If this were Game 7 of the World Series, you might have seen Marte in that eighth inning. But this is the regular season, and over 162 games, you have to use everybody. You can't ask Marte and Shingo to pitch everyday, and it is wise to save them for days where we have the lead.

Now, given that we've seen repeated failure from Cotts and Jackson in trying to keep the team close in the late innings, I would say we need to make a change in that area. It is the responsibility of the GM to make sure we have pitchers who can perform adequately in those roles. I do not blame Ozzie for bringing in Cotts or Jackson today. I would have done the same thing. I do, however, blame KW for not providing Ozzie with enough depth in his bullpen. This weakness has hurt us repeatedly throughout the season, and it hurt us again today.

I disagree with all you guys who think the catcher is our biggest hole. In my eyes, the bullpen is the biggest problem and none of it is Guillen's fault.
Make a trade, Kenny. Get us another reliever, preferably right-handed.

idseer
07-18-2004, 05:54 PM
MISSED?! He was running full speed and slammed the wall, he had no idea where it was. You make it sound like its HIS fault....that is crazy.



People need to get off Rowands back.
don't expect that anytime soon. the rowand haters are firmly entrenched here.

South Side
07-18-2004, 05:57 PM
There are multiple reasons why we lost this game, but getting only three hits has to be the biggest one. The three runs we got with those three hits notwithstanding, you cannot get just three hits and expect to win.
For once, in the last couple of weeks I can't agree with that. I think today you could expect to win with what we had. Today was one of the exceptions where I wouldn't get mad if we had only goten one on the board and in the paper tomorrow I see 3 players say, "You've just gotta tip your hat to him" (Annoyingly, they say that much to often). It's Mark Mulder... We got lucky scoring 3 times (should have been 4, I think C. Lee was safe at home) and it was up to Loiaza to put them away, at least for the next 2 innings and he couldn't do it. His fault.

harwar
07-18-2004, 05:59 PM
and i'll tell ya what else we got to look forward to .. cleveland and detroit are both coming on.
I think we are going to have a 4 team race because both the twins and White Sox really SUCK right now.
BUMMER!!!!! BIG ****ING BUMMER :angry:

JB98
07-18-2004, 06:01 PM
He missed it b/c it was home run and out of the park! How can you hold this against him?
It was a tremendous effort by Aaron. He was a on a full sprint to the wall. I'm amazed he even got a glove on it. If he had made the play, it would have been the best defensive play of the season. The real story was Loaiza grooving a fastball on a 1-2 count to Crosby. He also got beat for double on an 0-2 pitch to Dye earlier in the game. We just can't have that from a veteran pitcher. Loaiza has also developed a habit of giving up runs the next half inning after the offense scores for him. I don't think E-Lo's final pitching line is all that bad, but I am not pleased with him at all. He thinks he deserves the money Garcia got, but he hasn't performed like a top-of-the-rotation starter this year.

CubKilla
07-18-2004, 06:01 PM
September 15...

:hurtWhat good is that going to do the Sox if MIN pulls an '02 and '03?

harwar
07-18-2004, 06:04 PM
Blaming this loss on Aaron Rowand is like blaming pearl harbor on the honolulu air traffic controller.

michned
07-18-2004, 06:06 PM
...That's the exact situation where Ozzie has to use Cotts and Jackson. We have defined roles in our bullpen. Takatsu is the closer. Marte and Politte pitch in middle relief when the Sox have the lead. Cotts and Jackson pitch in middle relief when the Sox are trailing. Adkins is the long relief guy. Any time you have defined roles like that, that's a sign that the manager is using his bullpen correctly. Now, given that we've seen repeated failure from Cotts and Jackson in trying to keep the team close in the late innings, I would say we need to make a change in that area...
Hear, hear! This is something that was exposed when they went on the interleague road trip last month. Those guys could not stop the bleeding so that the offense might come back and get the lead. The football-score game in Montreal comes to mind. Cotts and Jackson are not cutting it. Cotts hasn't been the same since his turn as the 5th starter.

Ed

duke of dorwood
07-18-2004, 06:06 PM
We have a lot of problems if we have to rely on our outfielders trying to catch balls out of the park to keep us in games.
MAYBE OUR PITCHER LET HIM HIT IT TOO FAR

duke of dorwood
07-18-2004, 06:08 PM
Rowand is the only guy playing to his potential every day right now-GEEZ-

JB98
07-18-2004, 06:09 PM
We need to figure something out against left-handed pitching. We are struggling against lefties without Frank. Maggs, Crede and Uribe are all automatic outs right now. On top of that, we get no offense from our catchers and Jose has trouble putting the ball in play vs. lefties (HR today, not withstanding). That's five sore spots in the batting order. That doesn't bode well for later in the week, as Cliff Lee and Sabathia await us in Cleveland.

Crazy Carl is coming, but he's not exactly a savior as a right-handed hitter either.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-18-2004, 06:19 PM
and i'll tell ya what else we got to look forward to .. cleveland and detroit are both coming on.
When either of those teams finally make it over .500, I'll begin worrying about them. If the Sox can't stay in front of a team that can't win even half its games, then we have no worries about our playoff chances. They're nil.

OEO Magglio
07-18-2004, 06:23 PM
Yeah, it's all E Lo's fault that the Sox got three hits. And it's E Lo's fault that Rowand missed that catch.
You've got to be kidding me. I don't care how many hits the sox had, they scored 3 runs off mark mulder which is pretty good. Granted it was only rowand and valentin but 3 runs should have one this stinkin game. This game is all on elo, he's pitching awful right now. For you to blame that non catch on aaron is ridiculous.

harwar
07-18-2004, 06:23 PM
When either of those teams finally make it over .500, I'll begin worrying about them. If the Sox can't stay in front of a team that can't win even half its games, then we have no worries about our playoff chances. They're nil.
I posted that when cleveland tied the game in late innings against the mariners.Since then seattle has taken control of the game.
I was beyond reason for a time.
I'm just so damn angry right now.I bit one of my favorite pipes in half.
I guess we'll go gettem tommorrow and things will be ok.

RKMeibalane
07-18-2004, 08:18 PM
What good is that going to do the Sox if MIN pulls an '02 and '03?
None whatsoever. But we can hope... I think. :D:

Cellview22
07-18-2004, 08:23 PM
Twins are losing 3-1 in the bottom of the 8th. Man, we should be dominating this division. We should be up 5 games or more. Still hoping for that to happen in the next few weeks..

Lip Man 1
07-18-2004, 08:28 PM
Loazia is not the pitcher he was last year but them who would be? He pitched OK, not great but not lousy either.

A little more run support would have helped don't you think? In today's baseball three runs is no sure thing by any means. It's hard to win when you've had 28 total hits in your last six games combined.

It's pretty amazing the Sox went 3-3 in those games. I have to consider that a positive and hope they bust out of this soon. They are blowing chances.

Lip

RKMeibalane
07-18-2004, 08:36 PM
Loazia is not the pitcher he was last year but them who would be? He pitched OK, not great but not lousy either.

A little more run support would have helped don't you think? In today's baseball three runs is no sure thing by any means. It's hard to win when you've had 28 total hits in your last six games combined.

It's pretty amazing the Sox went 3-3 in those games. I have to consider that a positive and hope they bust out of this soon. They are blowing chances.

Lip
I think we're seeing what the Sox offense is like without Frank Thomas in the lineup, Lip. Considering how poorly the offense has performed recently, it's amazing to me that there are people on this board who think the Sox can win without Frank. I admit that I'm biased, but even when I try to view the situation objectively, I just can't see how this team can get by without its most productive offensive player. It's not just the power that the Sox are missing. Frank Thomas actually understands the strike zone. He knows how to read pitchers and pick up on patterns. None of the other hitters have shown this kind of ability at any point during their careers.

Right now, I'm hoping the Twins fall flat on their faces. Otherwise...

AnkleSox
07-18-2004, 09:08 PM
Well i just know i wont be cryin if the sox don't resign loaiza for next year.

mdep524
07-18-2004, 09:18 PM
We have a lot of problems if we have to rely on our outfielders trying to catch balls out of the park to keep us in games.
For some reason this line really makes me laugh. Would you mind if I used it in my sig Evman?

As for the game, yes, ELo choked big time. And Paulie had probably his worst day at the plate all season...I hope it doesn't get him thinking too much up there, because that will start him to a slump we can't afford right now.

I'm still waiting to see Plan B for this offense, because NOBODY is getting the job done. Everett will help but we desperately need a table-setter.... Walker, Crawford, Kendall.......some options are more realistic than others (KENDALL!!!!) but KW needs to fix this hole post haste.

idseer
07-18-2004, 09:51 PM
one of the things that bothers me is that as bad as they appear to be, they're still in first place. what does this say about our laughing stock division? even after we win this thing we'll still be looked upon as a team who did not much of anything to get there. not much to be proud of. so even winning it will do nothing to change the perception in so many people's eyes.

Rudy Law
07-19-2004, 12:39 AM
don't expect that anytime soon. the rowand haters are firmly entrenched here.
I am not an Aaron Rowand hater.....I love him...The fact he even came close to that ball shocked me........Why is everyone jumping on his back...He is not the one who left a 1-2 pitch out over the plate.....Anyone who blames him for the loss today doesn't know what they are talking about....

WSox8404
07-19-2004, 12:57 PM
Well i just know i wont be cryin if the sox don't resign loaiza for next year.
I will actually be happy. Last year was truly a fluke. He is back to normal now, and his normal is not that good.

Blob
07-19-2004, 01:03 PM
I am not an Aaron Rowand hater.....I love him...The fact he even came close to that ball shocked me........Why is everyone jumping on his back...He is not the one who left a 1-2 pitch out over the plate.....Anyone who blames him for the loss today doesn't know what they are talking about....
That is soooo true. He just missed that ball. ELo should not have given up such a fat pitch to hit! Especially when he was up 1-2 on the count.

Plus, Aaron hit the homer to put a little cushion on our lead...

kjhanson
07-19-2004, 01:42 PM
In no way is this an excuse for yesterday's performance because we all know baseball is a game of adjustments. However, the strike zone was extremely awkward. The high strike was called very frequently, while the outside pitch was never, ever called. Esteban lives on the outside, and he was forced to throw more pitches than he should have. He was forced to throw more over the plate as well, and unlike Mulder, he didn't adjust. Mulder was able to get his curveball over for a strike and worked in fastballs effectively. Esteban actually had decent stuff yesterday, but the strike zone completely took away his cutter going away from righthanded batters. Nonetheless, he should have wasted high fastballs on both Dye and Crosby yesterday when they were down in the count. Instead, he msiplaced a couple pitches and paid for it.

Truthfully, based on pure stuff, this was one of his better outings in the past 6 weeks. He was able to locate his pitches effectively on the outer half (despite being called balls). If he has last nite's stuff with the "normal" strike zone, I think he definitely escapes with a W. Nonetheless, he did not adjust and it cost him the ballgame.

As far as the three hits go, I could care a less. The fact of the matter is we scored three runs. Hell, we would have had one more run if Crede elevates a pitch, and we didn't even need a hit for that. I'd rather score three runs on three hits than 2 runs on 9 hits any day of the week. We got a clutch two out hit from Rowand followed by Jose's homer. We had the lead and flat let it go.