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SpringfldFan
07-18-2004, 02:58 PM
Did anyone get a chance to hear Mike Marshall, sports physician and 1974 Cy Young winnner analyse Prior and traditional pitching philosophy on the Score this morning? I just caught the tail end of it and Marshall apparently says Prior's motion, while traditionally accepted, is all wrong and he could easily blow out his inside elbow ligament. He also criticised the preoccupation with pitch counts and off days. The report was based on a feature in the Daily Herald, at this link:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=3818655

Apparently Marshall, a Doctor, is dedicated to the science of pitching (the Ted Williams of pitching perhaps?) but has rubbed the MLB establishment the wrong way with his shrillness and thus isn't paid attention to. Nevertheless I think the discussion is extremely interesting, although I don't know how valid Marshall's theories are. What do you all think? Is he on base or is he a crackpot?

space_monkey
07-18-2004, 03:05 PM
maybe hes got a point with the way tommy john surgery has become almost normal these days. Its almost freaking required

StrTrkker
07-18-2004, 03:26 PM
maybe hes got a point with the way tommy john surgery has become almost normal these days. Its almost freaking required
Ok. Call me dumb...

So what is Tommy John surgery exactly?

:cool:

hsnterprize
07-18-2004, 03:33 PM
Did anyone get a chance to hear Mike Marshall, sports physician and 1974 Cy Young winnner analyse Prior and traditional pitching philosophy on the Score this morning? I just caught the tail end of it and Marshall apparently says Prior's motion, while traditionally accepted, is all wrong and he could easily blow out his inside elbow ligament. He also criticised the preoccupation with pitch counts and off days. The report was based on a feature in the Daily Herald, at this link:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=3818655

Apparently Marshall, a Doctor, is dedicated to the science of pitching (the Ted Williams of pitching perhaps?) but has rubbed the MLB establishment the wrong way with his shrillness and thus isn't paid attention to. Nevertheless I think the discussion is extremely interesting, although I don't know how valid Marshall's theories are. What do you all think? Is he on base or is he a crackpot?His theories look legit to me...but I'm also not a doctor, so I wouldn't know anything about this subject in such great length.

Either one of 2 things will happen...either Prior's elbow will blow up and Marshall's theories will be right, or Prior will pitch well, and Marshall will be made to look like an idiot.

samram
07-18-2004, 04:07 PM
Ok. Call me dumb...

So what is Tommy John surgery exactly?

:cool:
It's a procedure done to basically replace a severely damaged inner elbow ligaments. They take a ligament from the hand or wrist of the opposite arm, and thread it into the bones around the elbow. The ligament can also come from a leg or toe if the person doesn't have the requisite ligament in the nonthrowing arm.

I always thought Prior's motion was flawless, but when you see pictures from his right as he is throwing, it looks as if there is some severe torque on his elbow.

TomParrish79
07-18-2004, 04:25 PM
It may be B.S., But one of my friends told me that mainly at FSU and some other colleges I cant remember, if your a pitching prospect, that you have the option of being redshirted and have Tommy John surgery before you start your college career.


Sounds far fetched but I bought it.

:rolleyes:

Malgar 12
07-18-2004, 05:57 PM
It may be B.S., But one of my friends told me that mainly at FSU and some other colleges I cant remember, if your a pitching prospect, that you have the option of being redshirted and have Tommy John surgery before you start your college career.


Sounds far fetched but I bought it.

:rolleyes:
Total BS, no sense fixing a healthy ligament, not to mention It would be hard to find doctors who would do "cosmetic" Tommy John surgery, and expensive as well.

Daver
07-18-2004, 06:11 PM
What do you all think? Is he on base or is he a crackpot?
I agree with some points in his theory, and disagree with others. He proposes teaching a throwing motion that is diffucult to learn if you have not used from an early age, but he also encourages the need for pitchers to throw everyday, in a controlled regimen, something I agree with whole heartedly.

As long as he continues to take shots at baseball teams through his website as well as in the print media he is going to be considered a non factor.

Nick@Nite
07-18-2004, 11:35 PM
Did anyone get a chance to hear Mike Marshall, sports physician and 1974 Cy Young winnner analyse Prior and traditional pitching philosophy on the Score this morning?
Marshall? Didn't he host Hollywood Squares?

daveeym
07-19-2004, 12:00 AM
It's a procedure done to basically replace a severely damaged inner elbow ligaments. They take a ligament from the hand or wrist of the opposite arm, and thread it into the bones around the elbow. The ligament can also come from a leg or toe if the person doesn't have the requisite ligament in the nonthrowing arm.

I always thought Prior's motion was flawless, but when you see pictures from his right as he is throwing, it looks as if there is some severe torque on his elbow. I had the surgery and I never heard of a ligament from the hands or toes as being an option. However they can take the ligament from the throwing arm as well. From the arms they make an incision at the wrist and about half way up the fore arm. It's basically a ligament that through evolution has no use at all.

daveeym
07-19-2004, 12:07 AM
Well either the herald posted the wrong pictures or Marshall made a huge mistake in his analysis of the first photo, that clearly is NOT a 4 seam fastball in the first picture. Looks like prior's slider actually, photo 2 and 3 is a 4 seam fastball but not photo 1.

samram
07-19-2004, 08:09 AM
I had the surgery and I never heard of a ligament from the hands or toes as being an option. However they can take the ligament from the throwing arm as well. From the arms they make an incision at the wrist and about half way up the fore arm. It's basically a ligament that through evolution has no use at all.
They can take it from the toe (http://espn.go.com/trainingroom/s/2000/0315/427112.html) if the needed ligament is not in one of the ususal spots.

sendimjoey
07-19-2004, 11:27 AM
Mike Marshall was one of Jim Bouton's favorite Seattle Pilots teammates, as recorded in Bouton's "Ball Four." Marshall was considered a flake then, and he's pretty much always been considered a flake by people in the game.

I'm no doctor or pitching coach, but I've always wondered about the way Prior's elbow flies up as he's taking the ball back. I remember arguing with a Cubs fan back in the late 1980s about which young pitcher would have a better career: Mike Harkey or Jack McDowell. I was totally biased, of course, but I said that Harkey -- whose motion looked a lot like Ken Hill's (sorry to bring back a bad memory) -- would hurt his arm. He did. McDowell ended up with arm problems eventually, but he had a good career first.

Maximo
07-19-2004, 11:43 AM
IIRC.......because he had a unique way of throwing the baseball and he relied on some sort of 'screwball' as his 'out pitch', it was reported often back in those days that Mike Marshall actually developed a new, and different, muscle in his throwing arm from all of the years he pitched.

He had a 'run' of a few years where he was one of the top closers in the game for the Dodgers.
Prior to coming up with his screwball, he was more or less a 'journeyman' pitcher who spent time as somebody's 'mop-up' guy.

Lastly.....he also earned a reputation back then for being quite "eccentric".

Doesn't mean he's right or wrong, but he was thought of by many in the game to be a little "goofy". For a while though, he could get you three outs in the ninth to save a game as well as anybody.