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View Full Version : Levine Reports Sox and Expos VERY Close


Brian26
07-18-2004, 11:45 AM
He says deal may happen in the next couple of hours. Sox would give up two minor league pitchers for Carl Everett. Stay tuned.

Jjav829
07-18-2004, 11:49 AM
He says deal may happen in the next couple of hours. Sox would give up two minor league pitchers for Carl Everett. Stay tuned.
That's good to hear. Get him here in time for tomorrow's game against the Rangers. Shouldn't be any big pitchers since I imagine we'll be eating his contract and he isn't doing that great this year. Damn, now I wish I dropped the 30 bucks on that Carl Everett All Star jersey I saw on ebay. :smile:

Brian26
07-18-2004, 11:54 AM
Levine now reporting one of the pitchers the Sox give up MAY be Jon Rauch.

Both Levine and Rooney like the acquisition as Carl is a tough, left-handed out.

starboy0
07-18-2004, 11:56 AM
Does anyone know if his numbers batting left handed are significantly better than his righthanded numbers?

Could use that lefty bat I suppose and he seemed to fit well here last year.

samram
07-18-2004, 11:57 AM
Levine now reporting one of the pitchers the Sox give up MAY be Jon Rauch.

Both Levine and Rooney like the acquisition as Carl is a tough, left-handed out.
That could explain why he was scratched from his start yesterday (although it rained anyway). He can't live more than 20 minutes from me- perhaps I can help him pack.:D:

jabrch
07-18-2004, 11:57 AM
Levine now reporting one of the pitchers the Sox give up MAY be Jon Rauch.

Both Levine and Rooney like the acquisition as Carl is a tough, left-handed out.
If it is Rauch, are they tossing in Livan?

We need to do this - Carl will make a great DH. And he is under contract, cheap, IIRC, for next year. I guess I have no problem with this. Rauch has yet to show me that he is anything other than 6ft 10 inches of questionmarks. Now is the time!!!

Jjav829
07-18-2004, 11:58 AM
Does anyone know if his numbers batting left handed are significantly better than his righthanded numbers?

Could use that lefty bat I suppose and he seemed to fit well here last year.
Yes, they are. He has been a significantly better hitter from the left side than the right side. He was like Jose Valentin from the right side though this year he's hitting better from the right side. His power side is definitely from the left side though.

Jjav829
07-18-2004, 12:00 PM
Levine now reporting one of the pitchers the Sox give up MAY be Jon Rauch.

Both Levine and Rooney like the acquisition as Carl is a tough, left-handed out.
I would hope that Rauch is not in the deal. If he is, the other pitcher better be not be much of a prospect.

BearSox
07-18-2004, 12:00 PM
This could explain why the Cells jersey store has had Everett jerseys all year. Would this move mean we're done adding bats to the lineup?

jabrch
07-18-2004, 12:01 PM
I would hope that Rauch is not in the deal. If he is, the other pitcher better be not be much of a prospect.
How bout they toss in Orlando Cabrerra? We can take his salary off their hands, and use him as trade bait to get some young pitchers from the Cubs?

ndgt10
07-18-2004, 12:05 PM
Everett and Hernandez for Rauch and cash???

Erik The Red
07-18-2004, 12:05 PM
If it is Rauch, are they tossing in Livan? Bruce just said that the Sox are likely to get pitching back in the deal, so who knows? ;)

Brian26
07-18-2004, 12:08 PM
This could explain why the Cells jersey store has had Everett jerseys all year. Would this move mean we're done adding bats to the lineup?
The All-Star jerseys? I think that's just a matter of trying to move product since those have a Sox logo on the sleeve.

ndgt10
07-18-2004, 12:10 PM
Everett's in the Expos lineup today hitting fourth against the braves.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 12:10 PM
Bruce just said that the Sox are likely to get pitching back in the deal, so who knows? ;)
Could you imagine?

Livina Hernandez moved into the #4 spot in the rotation and Everett DHing?

SoxxoS
07-18-2004, 12:11 PM
Everett's in the Expos lineup today hitting fourth against the braves.
He might get pulled midgame...

CanOfCorn
07-18-2004, 12:13 PM
I wouldn't mind Cordero either. He'd be a nice right-handed arm for our bullpen.

Likely a long shot, because he's only 23.

ndgt10
07-18-2004, 12:15 PM
He might get pulled midgame...
Can you imagine Everett's reaction when he gets pulled?

"Hell yeah! I'm getting out of this craphole and going back to Chi-town!!!!"

cbrownson13
07-18-2004, 12:15 PM
Does anyone know if his numbers batting left handed are significantly better than his righthanded numbers?

Could use that lefty bat I suppose and he seemed to fit well here last year.

He's a career .286 hitter batting left handed and a career .252 hitter batting right handed. Also major difference in power numbers too. 134HRs lefty and just 29 righty.

samram
07-18-2004, 12:17 PM
I wouldn't mind Armas, Jr. if there is pitching coming. He got off to a bad start and was injured, but has given up only one run in his last three starts. Hernandez would be the first choice, though.

Erik The Red
07-18-2004, 12:26 PM
Could you imagine?

Livina Hernandez moved into the #4 spot in the rotation and Everett DHing? That would be great. I'm not getting my hopes up about Livan, though. But, then again, with last night's report from Arizona that the Unit will likely not be traded, KW may be stepping up his efforts to get other starting pitching.

MetalliSox
07-18-2004, 12:26 PM
I wouldn't mind Armas, Jr. if there is pitching coming. He got off to a bad start and was injured, but has given up only one run in his last three starts. Hernandez would be the first choice, though.
If Rauch is in the deal, we better be getting Livan. Rauch is the type of prospect who should be used to get something good and possibly long term. Rauch for Everett is bad, bad!

ndgt10
07-18-2004, 12:30 PM
Other pitchers on the Expos that are noteworthy:

Relievers:
L. Ayala 2.83 in 47.2 IP
T.J. Tucker 3.77 in 31.0 IP

Starters:
Z. Day 4.04 in 104.2 IP

Basten
07-18-2004, 12:30 PM
He says deal may happen in the next couple of hours. Sox would give up two minor league pitchers for Carl Everett. Stay tuned.Ok, let's hope this season is an aberration and he is not, in fact, done. :bandance:

And why are we giving up Rauch again? The Expos should be thanking us for taking away Everett's contract, NOT taking away a talented if banged up pitcher from us. Randy Johnson is who you overpay for, NOT Jurassic Carl.

How about Tony Armas, Jr?

Erik The Red
07-18-2004, 12:32 PM
Other pitchers on the Expos that are noteworthy:

Relievers:
L. Ayala 2.83 in 47.2 IP
T.J. Tucker 3.77 in 31.0 IP

Starters:
Z. Day 4.04 in 104.2 IP Yeah, we found out first hand that Zach Day is good.

Win1ForMe
07-18-2004, 12:33 PM
I haven't heard Levine say anything about pitching coming back our way, just Carl. Am I missing something?

Harris=God
07-18-2004, 12:38 PM
Is there anything better we can do than crazy carl. I heard Barry Zito is going to be on the block.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 12:40 PM
Is there anything better we can do than crazy carl. I heard Barry Zito is going to be on the block.
Can Zito DH?

Erik The Red
07-18-2004, 12:41 PM
I haven't heard Levine say anything about pitching coming back our way, just Carl. Am I missing something? I've been listening to him on Chicago Baseball Today on WMVP, and he's twice mentioned other players coming back. First time he said it was pitching coming back, and the next time he said "players coming back in the deal". He hasn't mentioned anyone by name, though.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-18-2004, 12:44 PM
wow, I woke up about 10 minutes ago and I predicted in my mind that there'd be a thread like this. woohoo! :supernana:

princek
07-18-2004, 12:47 PM
YUCK, i like crazy carl dont get me wrong but this move just isnt what this team needs, the last thing we need is another slow dh type, we need top of the order hitters who can get on base at a decent clip and hit good pitching.

CHISOXFAN13
07-18-2004, 12:49 PM
YUCK, i like crazy carl dont get me wrong but this move just isnt what this team needs, the last thing we need is another slow dh type, we need top of the order hitters who can get on base at a decent clip and hit good pitching.


SO tell me, what type of those players are available?

ndgt10
07-18-2004, 12:50 PM
Everett was pulled from the lineup....

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 12:51 PM
YUCK, i like crazy carl dont get me wrong but this move just isnt what this team needs, the last thing we need is another slow dh type, we need top of the order hitters who can get on base at a decent clip and hit good pitching.
So instead of adding one good bat to help the offense while Frank is out, you want to redo the entire way the Sox play baseball while in first place in mid July?

Like it or not, the loss of Frank is a huge hole and one that needs to be filled with a powerhitter who takes walks.

princek
07-18-2004, 12:51 PM
catallanato 355 vs rhp makes less than crazy carl and then go for teh jugular and get kendall.

pudge
07-18-2004, 12:52 PM
Oh man, if we give up Rauch we better get a pitcher back. KW is not dumb enough to do Rauch for Everett... or is he?

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 12:55 PM
Oh man, if we give up Rauch we better get a pitcher back. KW is not dumb enough to do Rauch for Everett... or is he?
Kind of depends on how you view things, I suppose. Are the Sox going for it this year? If Frank makes it back, will Carl make a great player to have on the bench/in CF/ etc. if the Sox make the playoffs?

If the Sox sign Loaiza to a 3 year extension, they are pretty well set 1-4 for starters until the end of 2006, Rauch won't crack that group anytime soon and there are lots of options for #5 at the moment who are equally impressive (Cotts, Diaz, Schoeneweiss).

Win1ForMe
07-18-2004, 12:56 PM
I've been listening to him on Chicago Baseball Today on WMVP, and he's twice mentioned other players coming back. First time he said it was pitching coming back, and the next time he said "players coming back in the deal". He hasn't mentioned anyone by name, though.Hmmm. I'm not doubting you, but listening to Levine's interview with "Rhyno,"
Bruce once again mentioned Carl and Carl only. Maybe the other "players" aren't
worth getting excited about (minor leaguers?).

jabrch
07-18-2004, 12:58 PM
Oh man, if we give up Rauch we better get a pitcher back. KW is not dumb enough to do Rauch for Everett... or is he?
The First - KW is dumb for trading Rauch thread. Congrats.

What exactly has Rauch done with us? Is there any reason to believe he is a LOCK to ever be more than a back of the rotation guy?

I'm thrilled to death if we can do this - Carl will help us to win NOW.

pudge
07-18-2004, 12:58 PM
Kind of depends on how you view things, I suppose. Are the Sox going for it this year? If Frank makes it back, will Carl make a great player to have on the bench/in CF/ etc. if the Sox make the playoffs?

If the Sox sign Loaiza to a 3 year extension, they are pretty well set 1-4 for starters until the end of 2006, Rauch won't crack that group anytime soon and there are lots of options for #5 at the moment who are equally impressive (Cotts, Diaz, Schoeneweiss).
I hear ya, but still, i feel like we're losing our biggest chips and not getting enough back in return. For example, I don't know how we at least didn't get another low-level prospect back from Seattle for all that we gave up. I agree that Rauch is likely not going to fit on the Sox anytime soon, and that's fine, but I'd just like to be on the better end of a trade for a change. Seems like Bartolo was the only time when that was the case.

Win1ForMe
07-18-2004, 01:00 PM
I'm all for getting Everett but a question comes to mind about what to do with
him next year. I would imagine a $4M player won't sit on the bench.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:01 PM
but I'd just like to be on the better end of a trade for a change. Seems like Bartolo was the only time when that was the case.
Are you serious?

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:01 PM
If the Sox sign Loaiza to a 3 year extension, they are pretty well set 1-4 for starters until the end of 2006,
Estean is looking for Freddy Garcia money or better. His words.

Unless 2003 magic returns and he helps push this team deep into playoffs, forget it.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:01 PM
I'm all for getting Everett but a question comes to mind about what to do with
him next year. I would imagine a $4M player won't sit on the bench.
We may have an opening in RF - huh? Magglio seems to have no interest in whatever we have offered him.

Wealz
07-18-2004, 01:02 PM
If the Sox sign Loaiza to a 3 year extension, they are pretty well set 1-4 for starters until the end of 2006
If the Sox sign Loaiza for three years they'll regret it.

jeremyb1
07-18-2004, 01:03 PM
I'd rather not trade Rauch. He's having a good season at AAA and most importantly he looks to be our best major league ready pitcher. If anyone goes down or we decide to boot Schoenweis we need him to fill in. We're really hurting our depth if we deal him.

Win1ForMe
07-18-2004, 01:04 PM
We may have an opening in RF - huh? Magglio seems to have no interest in whatever we have offered him.
Yeah, I pretty much arrived at the same conclusion. That or moving Carlos after
the season.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:04 PM
I heard nobody arguing against trading Rauch - at all - up until today. The HOKW must be gearing up in full force. Ya mopes make me smile.

DickAllen72
07-18-2004, 01:05 PM
Estean is looking for Freddy Garcia money or better. His words.



LOL! And I want to be King of Madagascar! Sorry, Esteban, but I don't think either is going to happen.
:redneck

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 01:05 PM
I hear ya, but still, i feel like we're losing our biggest chips and not getting enough back in return. For example, I don't know how we at least didn't get another low-level prospect back from Seattle for all that we gave up. I agree that Rauch is likely not going to fit on the Sox anytime soon, and that's fine, but I'd just like to be on the better end of a trade for a change. Seems like Bartolo was the only time when that was the case.
See there's the problem. You are worried about the chips. Every other player at the table wants to take home the gold...

HomeFish
07-18-2004, 01:05 PM
YUCK, i like crazy carl dont get me wrong but this move just isnt what this team needs, the last thing we need is another slow dh type, we need top of the order hitters who can get on base at a decent clip and hit good pitching.

We lost one slow DH type and are replacing him with another. There is no net gain in slow DH type players for this team.

Carl is on a 2-year contract, right? Or is he a rent-a-player again?

pudge
07-18-2004, 01:07 PM
See there's the problem. You are worried about the chips. Every other player at the table wants to take home the gold...
Yeah but don't we have a better chance of taking home the gold with Everett and someone like Livan, rather than just Everett?

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:07 PM
Yeah, I pretty much arrived at the same conclusion. That or moving Carlos after
the season.
And we don't know if Frank is going to take his option, or if we will then take it? This injury to him puts that in huge doubt. I don't see a way we wouldn't have a spot for Carl next year - provided he plays well.

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:07 PM
We may have an opening in RF - huh? Magglio seems to have no interest in whatever we have offered him.And I have no interest whatsoever in 30+ yo, 860 OPS, average speed/defense players coming off a knee injury demanding 14-15 Mill a year straight up.

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 01:08 PM
Yeah but don't we have a better chance of taking home the gold with Everett and someone like Livan, rather than just Everett?
Sure, but one step at a time. Isn't it better to get some of what you need rather than break the deal by asking for too much. If KW gets Livan and Everett, I won't be crying, but don't make it a deal breaker...

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:09 PM
Yeah but don't we have a better chance of taking home the gold with Everett and someone like Livan, rather than just Everett?
But is Livan available? I have heard he is not. you obviously can't get guys who are not available.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-18-2004, 01:10 PM
The guys on the TBS braves broadcast mentioned that Carl Everett is out of the line up because he's going to be dealt to the Chicago White Sox for prospects. :D:

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:11 PM
And I have no interest whatsoever in 30+ yo, 860 OPS, average speed/defense players coming off a knee injury players demanding 14-15 Mill a year straight up.
I won't say NO interest - but I wouldn't give him what he wants.

MeanFish
07-18-2004, 01:11 PM
I'd actually like to see a decent relief pitcher a la Joey Eischen thrown into the deal. If we can shore up a bullpen worry AND an OF spot, we're in great shape.

btw - I know Eischen is on the d/l, that was just an example.

HomeFish
07-18-2004, 01:12 PM
The guys on the TBS braves broadcast mentioned that Carl Everett is out of the line up because he's going to be dealt to the Chicago White Sox for prospects.

Uh oh. They jinxed the Jones/Ortiz for Magglio trade in the same way, remember?

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:12 PM
And I want to be King of Madagascar! :redneck
Trust me, you don't.

mrzerofan
07-18-2004, 01:12 PM
Why is everybody coming to the conclusion that Rauch is that pitcher in the deal?

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:19 PM
Why is everybody coming to the conclusion that Rauch is that pitcher in the deal?
Levine said so. But more importantly, why is anyone upset?

CWSGuy406
07-18-2004, 01:21 PM
Looks like the two pitchers could be Rauch and Majewski. Coming from Ken Rosenthal (sp?), so take it FWIW.


http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2584548

idseer
07-18-2004, 01:21 PM
The First - KW is dumb for trading Rauch thread. Congrats.

What exactly has Rauch done with us? Is there any reason to believe he is a LOCK to ever be more than a back of the rotation guy?

I'm thrilled to death if we can do this - Carl will help us to win NOW.
rauch is going to be a star!

mark it down.

danjames
07-18-2004, 01:21 PM
Is this the second or third time we've traded majewski?

I remember us trading him to LA, and then trading back for him later. Weird.

WSox8404
07-18-2004, 01:22 PM
Man if we got Livan.....

Win1ForMe
07-18-2004, 01:22 PM
Man if we got Livan.....
We didn't.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:23 PM
rauch is going to be a star!

mark it down.
We have yet to trade a single prospect who has become a STAR. I'll believe it when I see it.

Kogs35
07-18-2004, 01:24 PM
We have yet to trade a single prospect who has become a STAR. I'll believe it when I see it.
agreed

idseer
07-18-2004, 01:26 PM
We have yet to trade a single prospect who has become a STAR. I'll believe it when I see it.
that's the best time to believe things imo. :smile:

........... but you'll see.

Kogs35
07-18-2004, 01:26 PM
its done deal rosenthal was right

CWSGuy406
07-18-2004, 01:26 PM
I think it's official.


Rauch and Majewski for Everett.

WSox8404
07-18-2004, 01:27 PM
I find it hard to belive that Rauch will be anything better than a number 5 starter in the league. But I may be wrong, and I stress MAY.

Win1ForMe
07-18-2004, 01:27 PM
Everet + cash considerations FOR Rauch + Majewski (per Levine).

pudge
07-18-2004, 01:28 PM
I think it's official.


Rauch and Majewski for Everett.
So we've given up 5 players in two years for Crazy Carl, one of whom is already a vital part to a winning teams' pen.

idseer
07-18-2004, 01:29 PM
I think it's official.


Rauch and Majewski for Everett.
i hate it! :angry:

all we have to do now is get rj and the sox will be out of contention 'after' this year for the next 10 years.

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 01:29 PM
So we've given up 5 players in two years for Crazy Carl, one of whom is already a vital part to a winning teams' pen.
Who? Just curious...

Is it KW's fault that Everett signed for less money to play for the Expos?

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:31 PM
Who? Just curious...

Is it KW's fault that Everett signed for less money to play for the Expos?
I think he is talking about Francisco in Texas?

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:31 PM
i hate it! :angry:

all we have to do now is get rj and the sox will be out of contention 'after' this year for the next 10 years.
Cuz Jon Rauch was going to make a difference how exactly?

pudge
07-18-2004, 01:32 PM
Who? Just curious...

Is it KW's fault that Everett signed for less money to play for the Expos?
Francisco with Texas... did we offer Everett more than MTL? If so, why in the world did he go there??

Daver
07-18-2004, 01:32 PM
Majewski will be back. It's fate, this guy has been traded from the Sox and traded back, then taken in the rule 5 draft and returned, the next time he will probably sign as a minor league FA.

:cool:

Daver
07-18-2004, 01:33 PM
Francisco with Texas... did we offer Everett more than MTL? If so, why in the world did he go there??
The Sox non tendered Everrett, he would have been due almost ten mil in arbitration.

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 01:34 PM
Francisco with Texas... did we offer Everett more than MTL? If so, why in the world did he go there??
He turned the Sox offer down. The the Sox declined to offer arbitration (good choice). Then they couldn't negotiate. Then he signed for less with Montreal.

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:34 PM
rauch is going to be a star!


Don't you need at least one right shoulder worth a damn for that to happen? :?:

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:35 PM
Francisco with Texas... did we offer Everett more than MTL? If so, why in the world did he go there??
Pudge - Francisco isn't that good - come on. 4.40 ERA with a 1.38 WHIP in 24 IP? He might be the 4th best guy in their pen. Could we use him - sure - but did Carl give us a much better shot last year - no doubt.

Do you think Francisco is going to ever go on to really be a star - not a replaceable cheap arm in the bullpen?

pudge
07-18-2004, 01:37 PM
He turned the Sox offer down. The the Sox declined to offer arbitration (good choice). Then they couldn't negotiate. Then he signed for less with Montreal.
That's what I thought, but that was just a business move on his part - he was hoping for arbitration and didn't get it, then his value on the market wasn't as high as he was hoping... it wasn't a choice between Chi and Mtl, at least as it seems.

idseer
07-18-2004, 01:37 PM
Cuz Jon Rauch was going to make a difference how exactly?
not this year. and probably not ever because i don't think kw was ever going to give him a serious shot.
but he'll be a top pitcher in a couple years. he WOULD have made a big difference, imo.

the good news is that now he'll get to show what he can do.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:38 PM
That's what I thought, but that was just a business move on his part - he was hoping for arbitration and didn't get it, then his value on the market wasn't as high as he was hoping... it wasn't a choice between Chi and Mtl, at least as it seems.
But it was a choice between Chicago at a reasonable amount of money - or taking a huge risk of ending up in Montreal for less.

pudge
07-18-2004, 01:38 PM
Pudge - Francisco isn't that good - come on. 4.40 ERA with a 1.38 WHIP in 24 IP? He might be the 4th best guy in their pen. Could we use him - sure - but did Carl give us a much better shot last year - no doubt.

Do you think Francisco is going to ever go on to really be a star - not a replaceable cheap arm in the bullpen?
I agree with you on Francisco.. I don't know, maybe I just don't get KW's fascination with Everett. But he's here now, so I hope he tears it up!

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:39 PM
not this year. and probably not ever because i don't think kw was ever going to give him a serious shot.
but he'll be a top pitcher in a couple years. he WOULD have made a big difference, imo.

the good news is that now he'll get to show what he can do.
He has had plenty of chances. What do you mean KW won't give him a chance?

Nick@Nite
07-18-2004, 01:40 PM
Everet + cash considerations FOR Rauch + Majewski (per Levine).
... however, I'm trying remember the last time "cash" got a base hit or struck anyone out.:?:

CWSGuy406
07-18-2004, 01:41 PM
not this year. and probably not ever because i don't think kw was ever going to give him a serious shot.
but he'll be a top pitcher in a couple years. he WOULD have made a big difference, imo.

the good news is that now he'll get to show what he can do.
What makes you think he's going to be a top pitcher? And don't say 'he's 6'11' as an example... :rolleyes:

idseer
07-18-2004, 01:42 PM
He has had plenty of chances. What do you mean KW won't give him a chance?
i don't call having him sit for 20 days at a time between starts much of a chance.

one example of a chance would have been to NOT bring up diaz just after rauch had pitched well and won a game after being recalled. the man hasn't pitched since while diaz got several shots proving he didn't belong here. you call that being given a chance?

hey, i'm not going to make a big deal here. i hope everett can help tho i'm skeptical.

all i'm saying is let's see where rauch is in 2 years.

idseer
07-18-2004, 01:43 PM
What makes you think he's going to be a top pitcher? And don't say 'he's 6'11' as an example... :rolleyes:
not in this thread.. i've been over it and let's just let it lie.

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:44 PM
. But he's here now, so I hope he tears it up!
Hear, hear.

Go Carl, go Crazy, prove me wrong, whooo-hooooooooooooo!!!!

pearso66
07-18-2004, 01:44 PM
i don't call having him sit for 20 days at a time between starts much of a chance.

one example of a chance would have been to NOT bring up diaz just after rauch had pitched well and won a game after being recalled. the man hasn't pitched since while diaz got several shots proving he didn't belong here. you call that being given a chance?

hey, i'm not going to make a big deal here. i hope everett can help tho i'm skeptical.

all i'm saying is let's see where rauch is in 2 years.
If they didn't bring up Diaz, who was going to pitch that Cub game? SS was placed on the DL and we needed someone to pitch.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:45 PM
8 starts in his career - ERA at about 7.

Many injuries in his minor league career

Only mediocre and inconsistent performance in the minors.

At best, a back of the rotation guy in the next 5 years - I just don't see more than that. We can find that for cheap out there.

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:49 PM
but he'll be a top pitcher in a couple years. he WOULD have made a big difference, imo..
See, I hear this all the time and wonder aloud, "Just what is it about Rauch that says 'Stah!' -- or even a 'good #3' for that matter?"

Enlighten me. Please.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 01:55 PM
See, I hear this all the time and wonder aloud, "Just what is it about Rauch that says 'Stah!' -- or even a 'good #3' for that matter?"

Enlighten me. Please.
He is 6'11

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:59 PM
all i'm saying is let's see where rauch is in 2 years.I hope he wins a Cy Young, I really do. Same as Reed and Olivo - I hope they have All-Star careers.

I prefer to be proven wrong if it means the word gets out around the league that White Sox know how to recognize/develop All-Star talent. Maybe the next time an ace pitcher is available at the deadline, the GM would rather deal with us than another team that has a history of overrating its talent and then dumping it on other teams.

Go Bigger Jon.
:bandance:

idseer
07-18-2004, 02:06 PM
See, I hear this all the time and wonder aloud, "Just what is it about Rauch that says 'Stah!' -- or even a 'good #3' for that matter?"

Enlighten me. Please.
just what is it?
ok.

a. 2000 minor league player of the year

b. after injuries the next 2 years he came back to go 7 & 1 at charlotte this year.

c. after the 'incident' he still had the balls to come back and pitch well and win a game in a very crucial spot. that took courage and fortitude and tells me he has the stuff.

it won't be the first time a late bloomer has succeeded and it won't be the last.
now you can either accept my reasons for feeling the way i do or you can throw a couple more ... "he's 6'11's' at me.

Harris=God
07-18-2004, 02:11 PM
:tomatoaward

Congrats

Tragg
07-18-2004, 02:15 PM
We shouldn't have to give up squat for Everett and his 252 BA and 319 obp. Maybe one low minor leaguer.

Come on Williams- get an edge once in a while.

samram
07-18-2004, 02:19 PM
just what is it?
ok.

a. 2000 minor league player of the year

b. after injuries the next 2 years he came back to go 7 & 1 at charlotte this year.

c. after the 'incident' he still had the balls to come back and pitch well and win a game in a very crucial spot. that took courage and fortitude and tells me he has the stuff.

it won't be the first time a late bloomer has succeeded and it won't be the last.
now you can either accept my reasons for feeling the way i do or you can throw a couple more ... "he's 6'11's' at me.
Wouldn't you think the 2000 minor league player of the year would be contributing in a big way in 2004 if he was all that great? Sounds more like an early bloomer who doesn't have great stuff, and to whom the league(s) caught up. He may be a 3/4 starter, or a quality long guy out of the pen, but not a guy to lose sleep over.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2004, 02:22 PM
Jon Rauch is getting a little old don't you think to be considered a 'top prospect?'
Some of you may have a point about not getting a real chance but those injuries to his arm slowed him down badly after 2000.

The guy now has a history of arm trouble yet some of you are in tears because the Sox let him go... ironically some of you are probably the same folks who go bonkers anytime the Sox trade for, or are looking at a pitcher who has had an arm injury.

Can't have it both ways.

Lip

Basten
07-18-2004, 02:31 PM
just what is it?
ok.

a. 2000 minor league player of the year

b. after injuries the next 2 years he came back to go 7 & 1 at charlotte this year.

c. after the 'incident' he still had the balls to come back and pitch well and win a game in a very crucial spot. that took courage and fortitude and tells me he has the stuff.

it won't be the first time a late bloomer has succeeded and it won't be the last.
now you can either accept my reasons for feeling the way i do or you can throw a couple more ... "he's 6'11's' at me.

a. So was Willie Harris. And unlike Rauch, Willie Harris never had one of the worst injuries/more complicated shoulder joint procedures a pitcher could have. Subsequent loss of velocity and erratic control did not come as a surprise. His stuff and control are just not the same, and there is a good chance he will be on DL within a year.

b. Actually he had a 4.00+ ERA last year and, yes, in his repeat year in AAA he is good, but it always seemed like he was at 100 pitch mark in the 5th inning.....And since when is mL success a great indicator of ML success? Arnie Munoz was dominating in the minors, and then he got a dose of Major League reality.

c. What?!


It's all about odds, baby. 3:1 says Rauch is either a AAAA talent or never fully recovers from his arm problems, or both. If he defies said odds and blows us away, I will be very happy for him - well, since he is a well-known deusche, I won't be happy for him per se, but rather for people who scouted and developed him.

Go Rauch!

idseer
07-18-2004, 03:33 PM
Jon Rauch is getting a little old don't you think to be considered a 'top prospect?'
Some of you may have a point about not getting a real chance but those injuries to his arm slowed him down badly after 2000.

The guy now has a history of arm trouble yet some of you are in tears because the Sox let him go... ironically some of you are probably the same folks who go bonkers anytime the Sox trade for, or are looking at a pitcher who has had an arm injury.

Can't have it both ways.

Lip
jon is 25 years old.
warren spahn at age 25 had won all of 8 games.

your 1st response will be, 'jon is no warren spahn'.
my reply will be ... neither was warren spahn.

and players play longer today than in spahn's day.

i have no guarantee that what i say will happen, but i believe he will surprise you all.

idseer
07-18-2004, 03:36 PM
a. So was Willie Harris. And unlike Rauch, Willie Harris never had one of the worst injuries/more complicated shoulder joint procedures a pitcher could have. Subsequent loss of velocity and erratic control did not come as a surprise. His stuff and control are just not the same, and there is a good chance he will be on DL within a year.

b. Actually he had a 4.00+ ERA last year and, yes, in his repeat year in AAA he is good, but it always seemed like he was at 100 pitch mark in the 5th inning.....And since when is mL success a great indicator of ML success? Arnie Munoz was dominating in the minors, and then he got a dose of Major League reality.

c. What?!


It's all about odds, baby. 3:1 says Rauch is either a AAAA talent or never fully recovers from his arm problems, or both. If he defies said odds and blows us away, I will be very happy for him - well, since he is a well-known deusche, I won't be happy for him per se, but rather for people who scouted and developed him.

Go Rauch!
sorry you didn't understand point c.

in any event, you asked a question and i answered it. i never said you had to agree with me.
i'd have preferred you just had said ... "ok, i understand".

CHISOXFAN13
07-18-2004, 03:37 PM
We shouldn't have to give up squat for Everett and his 252 BA and 319 obp. Maybe one low minor leaguer.

Come on Williams- get an edge once in a while.

LOL. This coming from a guy7 who lists Royce Clayton as his favorite White Sox player.

I think I'll take my chances that KW and his staff have a bit better eye for talent than you certainly do.

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 03:37 PM
jon is 25 years old.
warren spahn at age 25 had won all of 8 games.

your 1st response will be, 'jon is no warren spahn'.
my reply will be ... neither was warren spahn.

and players play longer today than in spahn's day.

i have no guarantee that what i say will happen, but i believe he will surprise you all.
I'm sorry, I hate analogys like this.

The question being debated in your reply is, "Based on the age factor, is Rauch more or less likely to be a star?"

You bring up Warren Spahn.

Okay, now you've got one.

Care to take a look at the other side of the ledger? I would bet that it has 1000's of players who weren't Warren Spahn either and never became him.

The odds of a pitcher suddenly becoming a star at age 25 when he hasn't shown that ability in the past are probably minute. I don't have exact stats, but I am sure somewhere a stathead lurks who can tell us exactly what it is. I'm betting your side of the ledger is woefully short on names...

jabrch
07-18-2004, 03:40 PM
jon is 25 years old.
warren spahn at age 25 had won all of 8 games.

your 1st response will be, 'jon is no warren spahn'.
my reply will be ... neither was warren spahn.

and players play longer today than in spahn's day.

i have no guarantee that what i say will happen, but i believe he will surprise you all.

For every Warren Spahn you can name, I'll name you 20 Scott Ruffcorns.

idseer
07-18-2004, 03:42 PM
I'm sorry, I hate analogys like this.

The question being debated in your reply is, "Based on the age factor, is Rauch more or less likely to be a star?"

You bring up Warren Spahn.

Okay, now you've got one.

Care to take a look at the other side of the ledger? I would bet that it has 1000's of players who weren't Warren Spahn either and never became him.

The odds of a pitcher suddenly becoming a star at age 25 when he hasn't shown that ability in the past are probably minute. I don't have exact stats, but I am sure somewhere a stathead lurks who can tell us exactly what it is. I'm betting your side of the ledger is woefully short on names...there are other factors, but i was dealing with the specific problem lip brought up. my point being, being 25 years old does NOT make one too old to succeed in mlb. screw the odds. if you just go by odds then no one should be in the major leagues at all. the odds are against everyone!

incidently, i CAN come up with a lengthy list of pitchers who contruibuted nothing until they were 26 or so. warren was an outstanding and obvious one so i chose him to make my point.

idseer
07-18-2004, 03:44 PM
For every Warren Spahn you can name, I'll name you 20 Scott Ruffcorns.
that may be so. but it doesn't alter the fact that i believe rauch will be an excellent pitcher in the majors.

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 03:45 PM
there are other factors, but i was dealing with the specific problem lip brought up. my point being, being 25 years old does NOT make one too old to succeed in mlb. screw the odds. if you just go by odds then no one should be in the major leagues at all. the odds are against everyone!

incidently, but i CAN come up with a lengthy list of pitchers who contruibuted nothing until they were 26 or so. warren was an outstanding and obvious one so i chose him to make my point.
Sure it happens, but statistically, it is rare and when you add in the shoulder problems, it becomes even less likely.

I got nothing against Rauch. I don't even hold that leaving early thing against him as I figure everyone deserves a second chance. I just don't think he is destined for stardom.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 03:49 PM
that may be so. but it doesn't alter the fact that i believe rauch will be an excellent pitcher in the majors.
of course not. However, in making a run for it this year, KW is doing what he has to do to replace Frank's production. (to whatever extent that is possible)

I don't have a clue either way if Rauch will ever amount to anything. To me, he looks like a 5th starter at best - but I am not a scout so I don't have the framework to make those judgements as well as the professional scouts do. I do know that Everett will help us now, and that Rauch will not. If it gets us deep into the playoffs - then great - that's what we are looking for.


As an aside, when you say "excellent" are you saying a front of the rotation, #1 guy, or a #3 middle of the rotation pitcher, or a #5/bullepen guy? If you are predicting #1, front of the rotation, I'd disagree.

In any case, this looks like a good deal from the perspective of winning now. Frankly, that's most important to me. I'm sick as hell of 2nd place finishes, or of playoff wipeouts.

Basten
07-18-2004, 03:50 PM
sorry you didn't understand point c.


Maybe if you'd made point C any more irrelevant/incorrect, it would have been easier to understand.

So he pitched a decent game for once, after having his tool-ness and cowardice rewarded with a second chance? Chris Rock has a cookie with Jon's name on it.

Courage and fortitude....bwaaaaaaa


Likewise, I am sorry you didn't understand points A and B. :smile:

ewokpelts
07-18-2004, 03:51 PM
This could explain why the Cells jersey store has had Everett jerseys all year. Would this move mean we're done adding bats to the lineup?
yeah...at a discount...they're trying to get rid of the jerseys
Gene

idseer
07-18-2004, 04:00 PM
Sure it happens, but statistically, it is rare and when you add in the shoulder problems, it becomes even less likely.

I got nothing against Rauch. I don't even hold that leaving early thing against him as I figure everyone deserves a second chance. I just don't think he is destined for stardom.
that's cool.

i think some injuries can be completely overcome, some can't. only time will tell.

btw, did you know that gary peters record was 0 - 1 until he reached the age of 26?
or that hof'er early wynn had a losing record up to age 26?
or that hof'er sandy koufax was 36 - 40 at age 25?

this is not to continue the disagreement but i thought you'd find it interesting. :smile:

idseer
07-18-2004, 04:03 PM
of course not. However, in making a run for it this year, KW is doing what he has to do to replace Frank's production. (to whatever extent that is possible)

............

In any case, this looks like a good deal from the perspective of winning now. Frankly, that's most important to me. I'm sick as hell of 2nd place finishes, or of playoff wipeouts.
i do understand his reasoning for making a deal. i just think this will bite us later on.

idseer
07-18-2004, 04:11 PM
Maybe if you'd made point C any more irrelevant/incorrect, it would have been easier to understand.

So he pitched a decent game for once, after having his tool-ness and cowardice rewarded with a second chance? Chris Rock has a cookie with Jon's name on it.

Courage and fortitude....bwaaaaaaa

Likewise, I am sorry you didn't understand points A and B. :smile:
your word usage says a lot about you. just how was jon a coward? are you suggesting he never got beat before and just couldn't face his teammates afterwords? that's ludicrous. cowardice wasn't connect no way no how!

courage? yes. it took courage to face the team after the hubbub that was built over the incident. it took fortitude to get on the mound when the sox were faultering badly and stay tough for 6 innings. you'd have praised any other pitcher in the same circumstance.
you happen to be one of those who just think he's a horrible guy because of what happened. all that means to me is that you are intolerant and lack understanding and compassion.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 04:27 PM
that's cool.

i think some injuries can be completely overcome, some can't. only time will tell.

btw, did you know that gary peters record was 0 - 1 until he reached the age of 26?
or that hof'er early wynn had a losing record up to age 26?
or that hof'er sandy koufax was 36 - 40 at age 25?

this is not to continue the disagreement but i thought you'd find it interesting. :smile:

again - I'll name 20 to 1 pitchers who turned into absolutley nothing - who were bad up to age 26.

idseer
07-18-2004, 04:28 PM
again - I'll name 20 to 1 pitchers who turned into absolutley nothing - who were bad up to age 26.then i believe you owe me 80 names.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 04:37 PM
then i believe you owe me 80 names.
Stumm
Wells
Seay
Christman
Ruffcorn
Hall
Menendez
Davis
Knapp
Monroe
Etharton
Bootcheck
Janicki
Paradis
Sheppard
DuVall
Hoover
Wilson
Kucharski
Yount
Garrett
Fischer
Harris
Gabrielle
Parkins
Noel
Peterson
Ratliff
Dickson
Harkey
Masters
Hall
Davidson...

I can keep going if you want.

idseer
07-18-2004, 04:40 PM
Stumm
Wells
Seay
Christman
Ruffcorn
Hall
Menendez
Davis
Knapp
Monroe
Etharton
Bootcheck
Janicki
Paradis
Sheppard
DuVall
Hoover
Wilson
Kucharski
Yount
Garrett
Fischer
Harris
Gabrielle
Parkins
Noel
Peterson
Ratliff
Dickson
Harkey
Masters
Hall
Davidson...

I can keep going if you want.
not a good list and not nearly 80. some of those guys are still potential to do just what i said. wells, for example. :)

jabrch
07-18-2004, 05:23 PM
not a good list and not nearly 80. some of those guys are still potential to do just what i said. wells, for example. :)
My bad on Wells - he was listed as Robert - I forgot that was KIP. However, I have plenty more to replace him.

pearso66
07-18-2004, 05:38 PM
Ok Idseer, you can name a few who weren't good until 25/26. Can you name some that weren't good until then, that had serious shoulder surgery?

idseer
07-18-2004, 06:05 PM
Ok Idseer, you can name a few who weren't good until 25/26. Can you name some that weren't good until then, that had serious shoulder surgery?
well ..... tommy john was a MUCH better pitcher after his serious shoulder surgery. :smile:

look, every case is different. i think we've taken this as far as it needs to be.

pearso66
07-18-2004, 06:11 PM
I really hope Rauch does live up to be a decent pitcher, but we need hitting right now, not a pitcher in AAA. It's a good trade

CWSGuy406
07-18-2004, 06:34 PM
well ..... tommy john was a MUCH better pitcher after his serious shoulder surgery. :smile:

look, every case is different. i think we've taken this as far as it needs to be.
lol - in other words, you lose your argument, so 'this argument is over'. :redface: :rolleyes:

idseer
07-18-2004, 06:38 PM
lol - in other words, you lose your argument, so 'this argument is over'.

uhhhh yeah whatever you say. :rolleyes:

Tragg
07-18-2004, 06:50 PM
LOL. This coming from a guy7 who lists Royce Clayton as his favorite White Sox player.

I think I'll take my chances that KW and his staff have a bit better eye for talent than you certainly do.
Ever hear of cynicism, genius? You might note my favorite older player are Sid O'Brien (the worst 3rd baseman ever) and Buddy Bradford (the minor league can't miss phenom). My info's dated- time to switch Royce Clayton for Mike Jackson.

I was one of the FEW who pounded on that trade WHEN it happened.And I defended my position against comments like yours for 3 months before reality set in. BTW,who made the Clayton trade?

As for the rest of it- there's no point in ever discussing a trade as one would presume KW knows more about it than any of us.

OH and I think williams is a decent GM. He rarely gets "value" but overall much better than his predecesor

Basten
07-18-2004, 10:02 PM
you happen to be one of those who just think he's a horrible guy because of what happened. all that means to me is that you are intolerant and lack understanding and compassion.Hilarious. And devoid of facts.

Why don't you ask around his hometown in Kentucky what a ****ing egomaniac deusche Bigger Jon is. Better yet, ask Daver, RexHudler, Chisoxfn or Randar who either know the inside scoop or may have even had personal run-ins with the jagoff.....

Believe me, what he pulled in that clubhouse, and his subsequent lies and hiding behind his family, couldn't be MORE in line with his reputation and character. Or lack thereof. Fortitude and courage, my ass...times two.

No, what's obvious is your irrational all-transcending love for all things Rauch. My god, you actually had the chutzpah to bring Sandy Koufax into this......When Rauch has a 95-100 mph fastball, an unhittable hammer and an unbelivable intensity and ambition, then we'll talk. Until then, he is just another victim of the labrum-tomy. ;)

Btw......If Rauch could actually pitch on ML level (and not just as a 5th starter but someone who could lead the team to WS title within 2 years), I wouldn't have given one **** about his lack of class or character. Believe me. Unfortunately, even in his 5-inning start against the Tribe, he didn't look all that impressive - not his stuff, nor the control struck me as particularly impressive. Too many hard-hit outs. Too many baserunners. Too many deep counts. And didn't he get bailed out by a great defensive play by either Lee or Rowand before being taken out of the game? Methinks he did.

I don't care if you believe me or not, but I actually wish Rauch as much success with Montreal as possible. Our organization needs to get out of the prospect bust slump, and if Reed, Olivo, Rauch become All-Stars, that would be great for our reputation around the league. Especially if it happens to Jeremy or Miguel. :bandance:

idseer
07-18-2004, 10:36 PM
Hilarious. And devoid of facts.

Why don't you ask around his hometown in Kentucky what a ****ing egomaniac deusche Bigger Jon is. Better yet, ask Daver, RexHudler, Chisoxfn or Randar who either know the inside scoop or may have even had personal run-ins with the jagoff.....what facts was my post devoid of? as you say 'enlighten me'
i haven't read any "inside scoop" from anyone you mentioned. i do recall a few "i heard's) but that's about it.
why don't you tell me what YOU know as fact? or do you not HAVE any facts? i cannot believe i defended you once. you're a typical know nothing who loves labeling folks he has no clue about. there's a word for that but i might get in trouble with the mods if i use it.

Believe me, what he pulled in that clubhouse, and his subsequent lies and hiding behind his family, couldn't be MORE in line with his reputation and character. Or lack thereof. Fortitude and courage, my ass...times two.what subsequent lies? there were no lies at all. everyone knows this. he didn't 'hide' behind ANYone. he explained what he did. just because you hate a person so much doesn't mean you need to make up things to make him look all that much worse. the only part here i could agree with is the you're apparently a 'big' ass.

No, what's obvious is your irrational all-transcending love for all things Rauch. My god, you actually had the chutzpah to bring Sandy Koufax into this......When Rauch has a 95-100 mph fastball, an unhittable hammer and an unbelivable intensity and ambition, then we'll talk. Until then, he is just another victim of the labrum-tomy. ;)irrational all-transcending love for all things Rauch? you keep proving you have no talent for ration debate. you talk like an angry 16 year old trying to outdo another 16 year old in insults. in short, you're acting like a baby.

and you don't understand using well known people as examples? did you actually take what i said to mean rauch is as good as sandy koufax? or did you deliberately distort my meaning to make my position look more foolish?
once again, you argue like a child.

Btw......If Rauch could actually pitch on ML level (and not just as a 5th starter but someone who could lead the team to WS title within 2 years), I wouldn't have given one **** about his lack of class or character. Believe me. in other words all that tripe you spewed in the first couple paragraphs isn't really relevant. so ... you're a hypocrite too. who'd have guessed?

even in his 5-inning start against the Tribe, he didn't look all that impressive - not his stuff, nor the control struck me as particularly impressive. Too many hard-hit outs. Too many baserunners. Too many deep counts. And didn't he get bailed out by a great defensive play by either Lee or Rowand before being taken out of the game? Methinks he did.i'm so shocked you even rip him when he won.

I don't care if you believe me or not, but I actually wish Rauch as much success with Montreal as possible. Our organization needs to get out of the prospect bust slump, and if Reed, Olivo, Rauch become All-Stars, that would be great for our reputation around the league. Especially if it happens to Jeremy or Miguel. you're right. i DON'T believe you. if rauch did become an all star then everything you've said here would be dead wrong. i'm sure your ego wouldn't handle that very well.

you're a petty person, basten. it really bothers me there are people like you representing sox fans out there.

i'm through wasting my time on you. go ahead and get your last shots in, kid.

Daver
07-18-2004, 10:48 PM
Your wasting your time id, Basten walks away from a debate when he realizes he is overmatched.

Aidan
07-18-2004, 10:56 PM
Btw......If Rauch could actually pitch on ML level (and not just as a 5th starter but someone who could lead the team to WS title within 2 years), I wouldn't have given one **** about his lack of class or character. Believe me. Unfortunately, even in his 5-inning start against the Tribe, he didn't look all that impressive - not his stuff, nor the control struck me as particularly impressive. Too many hard-hit outs. Too many baserunners. Too many deep counts. And didn't he get bailed out by a great defensive play by either Lee or Rowand before being taken out of the game? Methinks he did. :bandance:I watched that whole game. Rauch didn't pitch great. He pitched okay and gave up 1 run in 5 innings with 3 walks and 5 strikeouts. He had alot of baserunners and was saved by two awesome defensive plays by Aaron Rowand. He even caught on off the wall. The Indians hit did hit alot of hard balls on him. But it was a great start considering it was Jon Rauch.

idseer
07-18-2004, 10:58 PM
Your wasting your time id, Basten walks away from a debate when he realizes he is overmatched.
then surely he needs a podiatrist by now. :smile:

beckett21
07-18-2004, 11:00 PM
then surely he needs a podiatrist by now. :smile:
Maybe I can help...:tongue:

idseer
07-18-2004, 11:04 PM
I watched that whole game. Rauch didn't pitch great. He pitched okay and gave up 1 run in 5 innings I think. He had alot of baserunners and was saved by two awesome defensive plays by Aaron Rowand. He even caught on off the wall.
then you must know that coming into that game the sox had lost 6 of 8 and were in a real tailspin. perhaps it wasn't a pretty performance but he hung in there , got out of jambs, and got the game won. considering what he'd just been thru with this team i'd say that it was clutch. and his reward was to not get another inning since.

beckett21
07-18-2004, 11:13 PM
then you must know that coming into that game the sox had lost 6 of 8 and were in a real tailspin. perhaps it wasn't a pretty performance but he hung in there , got out of jambs, and got the game won. considering what he'd just been thru with this team i'd say that it was clutch. and his reward was to not get another inning since.I'm not wanting to get in the middle of this, but a couple things:

1) I am in favor of this trade;

2) I do think that Rauch did not get a fair chance and should have started the game that Diaz pitched last. His last start was not mind-blowing, but it was solid. While I am a *KW supporter* (do we have buttons or something? :redneck ) I have been highly critical of him on the Rauch issue.

I was a Rauch fan, and wish him the best. Hopefully he gets a chance to succeed in Montreal or wherever they move to. But he was done with this organization, right or wrong. At least Everett improves the club for this season (hopefully). Rauch was left to rot on the vine, so he wasn't helping us anyway.

Aidan
07-18-2004, 11:28 PM
then you must know that coming into that game the sox had lost 6 of 8 and were in a real tailspin. perhaps it wasn't a pretty performance but he hung in there , got out of jambs, and got the game won. considering what he'd just been thru with this team i'd say that it was clutch. and his reward was to not get another inning since.The reason Rauch was not used again was because KW did not want to risk blowing his trade value. If Rauch had gotten another start and sucked, his trade value would have plummetted. Why do you think that Rauch was warmed up in a few games after his good outing and never used? KW was "showcasing" him to other teams for a trade. Granted, he probably didn't get a fair chance at cracking the rotation but who helps us more in trying to win the division with Frank out for 8 weeks? Rauch or Everett? Our pitching has been fine but our offense has been slumping like crazy without Frank. We need the added punch that Everett can provide.

Basten
07-18-2004, 11:30 PM
Your wasting your time id, Basten walks away from a debate when he realizes he is overmatched.Aww, that's so sweet.

And the obligatory "nice try", of course. :redneck

WinningUgly!
07-18-2004, 11:50 PM
While I am a *KW supporter* (do we have buttons or something? :redneck )
Better than buttons!:)

Daver
07-18-2004, 11:50 PM
Aww, that's so sweet.

And the obligatory "nice try", of course. :redneckAllrighty then.

We'll change it to you walk away from any debate you get proven wrong on as well as anything you get proved to show you have no idea what you are talking about.


Feel better?

beckett21
07-18-2004, 11:53 PM
Better than buttons!:)I was afraid you'd get ahold of that little quote! :D:

Brian26
07-18-2004, 11:55 PM
Maybe I can help...:tongue:
Hey Beckett,

You didn't, by chance, call into "Talking Baseball" this morning, did you? Levine and Rooney took a caller who was a foot doctor and had some comments about the Thomas injury.

WinningUgly!
07-18-2004, 11:56 PM
I was afraid you'd get ahold of that little quote! :D:
Nothing gets by the Sanitation Engineer. :)

beckett21
07-19-2004, 12:00 AM
Hey Beckett,

You didn't, by chance, call into "Talking Baseball" this morning, did you? Levine and Rooney took a caller who was a foot doctor and had some comments about the Thomas injury.
No, wasn't me. I never call in.

I would have liked to have heard it, though. Hopefully he was as witty and insightful as I am! :redneck

Basten
07-19-2004, 12:00 AM
I watched that whole game. Rauch didn't pitch great. He pitched okay and gave up 1 run in 5 innings with 3 walks and 5 strikeouts. He had alot of baserunners and was saved by two awesome defensive plays by Aaron Rowand. He even caught on off the wall. The Indians hit did hit alot of hard balls on him. But it was a great start considering it was Jon Rauch.
Since we're lamenting the loss of that jag-bag, that could only mean he has done something worthy of praise on the ML level in some here eyes. But looking over his stats and, more importantly, rememering the WAY he pitched - all the times he fell behind and threw a fat one, all the baserunners allowed, the "hard" outs and hard-hit fouls that on another day become run-scoring doubles.......Let's just say that low expectationitis acutus must be running rampant 'round these parts. Hell, Rauch could have been our very own personal Glendon Rusch - pitch one decent game and you're a warrior-savior of mythical stature. :bandance:


Rauch, superstar in the making....moral courage and fortitude....complicated shoulder surgery and permanent loss of velocity/bite being no biggie....

Damn, that bong must have had its own bong :rolleyes:

Daver
07-19-2004, 12:01 AM
Nothing gets by the Sanitation Engineer. :)

We have high standards when it comes to anyone that pushes the WSI mop and bucket.

:bandance: