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View Full Version : Twins running mouth (again)


PaleHoseGeorge
07-18-2004, 09:13 AM
One of the Twins is running his mouth again, this time it is Jacque Jones."If you want me to be honest, I have to say that the way we've played, we deserve to be 10 games behind the White Sox," right fielder Jacque Jones said. "But as bad as we've played, we're still hanging around.
Honesty? Nah, we prefer it when you lie Jacque. And if you think the Twins have played badly, just ask our man Lip how bad the Sox have played, big boy.


:wink: "If we play well, it's not going to be nice [for the Sox]. I'm not taking anything away from that team over there, Chicago, but it's not going to be nice for them if we play well for an extended period of time."
The "butt sandwich" is one of my favorite rhetorical devices. It works like this...

<qualifying assertion> followed by <statement that directly contradicts the qualifying assertion>.

<I'm not taking anything away from that team over there> followed by <it's not going to be nice for them if we play well.>

Well, not to take anything away from Jacque, but if the Sox play well for an extended period of time, it's not going to be nice for the Twins either.
:cool:

Will these *******s ever shut their mouth? (Quotes from Phil Rogers (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0407180300jul18,1,6891654.column?coll=cs-whitesox-utility) in today's Cubune.)


http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:h7J0inXIaYwJ:http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2002/0104/photo/gardenhire_m.jpg
"See, I told you! They're not respecting us, fellas! Their rightfielder is running his mouth again saying how lucky they are we're not 10 games back... what, no? Umm... err... well they're still from a big city and have no class! WHO'S WITH ME?!!"

:)

fquaye149
07-18-2004, 09:16 AM
i'll kill those ****ers.

samram
07-18-2004, 09:23 AM
Wow, I hate those guys. Apparently, he doesn't understand that they haven't played well, by his own admission, against crappy teams for two months! What makes him think seeing a steady diet of Boston, Texas, Oakland and Anaheim for a month and a half will cure what ails them. Also, he must not watch the Sox because they haven't exactly been on a tear, but they've been playing solid teams for two months, and his team is still in second. He must have Cubs fans telling him how to spin bad results. I hope the roof literally and figuratively caves in on them.

Realist
07-18-2004, 09:40 AM
I hate the Flubs with a passion and I hate the Twins even worse, but what Jones is saying is the truth. They have sucked.

There is no way that they should be this close to us. If they do get super hot and we keep slumping the way we have been at the plate, they could bury us in a real hurry. They could possibly put a Cardinalsesque 7 game lead over us in a little over 2 weeks. If Tampa Bay can get that hot, anybody can.

We shouldn't get pissed about Jones lippin' off. We should get motivated and give the rest of division a spanking it hasn't seen since 1983. This team is quite capable of it.

The starting pitchers are very solid (When they throw the friggin' ball inside. Coop should go out there and punch every pitcher directly in the face on the mound if they don't throw inside and are getting rocked in the first 3 innings. If he doesn't. He should be fired). Politte, Marte, and Shingo seem tough as nails, and we know the offense is capable of doing some serious damage.

It's up to Ozzie to now bring this team into focus and make the drive for the brass ring. Let's give Mr. Jones something to think about all winter.

Blob
07-18-2004, 09:45 AM
I like the fact that everyone keeps under estimating the Sox. Hopefully the Sox will hear about this and it will light a fire underneath their butts!

gosox41
07-18-2004, 10:23 AM
I like the fact that everyone keeps under estimating the Sox. Hopefully the Sox will hear about this and it will light a fire underneath their butts!
I hope so.

But how many times have we overestimated the Sox the last 3 years?

The Twins concern me and should be taken seriously. Getting Shannon Stewart back is a catalyst for them just likme last year. A healthy Mauer also helps a lot.

While the Twins have a tougher schedule fronm August on, it doesn't mean they're going to fold. They were a hot second half team last year. They're hoping the same thing Sox fans are, that there teamt akes off in the second half and goes on a run.


Bob

hose
07-18-2004, 10:43 AM
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6246.jpg

Just another drill rod Twin running his mouth.

StepsInSC
07-18-2004, 11:00 AM
I don't really see anything untrue about what he said. If either team had played well for an extended time, they would be way up in the standings. And as mediocre as this team has been for the past 3 years, if the Twins play great baseball they could run away with it.

Kogs35
07-18-2004, 11:00 AM
i hope Ozzie puts these quotes on the bulletin board and reads them to the team to lite the fire for when those twinkies come to town.

Brian26
07-18-2004, 11:04 AM
I hate Jacques Jones with a passion.

fquaye149
07-18-2004, 11:06 AM
I don't really see anything untrue about what he said. If either team had played well for an extended time, they would be way up in the standings. And as mediocre as this team has been for the past 3 years, if the Twins play great baseball they could run away with it.
yeah, and if we play good baseball we could too.

don't forget, they've had the royals, devil rays, and a host of other lousy teams

i would think that if you looked at the schedules the way the ncaa does in football we'd have one of the tougher ones in baseball based on the games we've already played, or at the very least the toughest in the AL Central.

OG4LIFE
07-18-2004, 11:20 AM
heres some data on strength of schedule so far:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi?sortColumn=sos


as you can see, MIN has had the easiest schedule in the majors so far this year, with the sox having the 18th toughest schedule. i knew the twinkies had an easy time the first half, but i didnt realize it was THAT easy. their opponents have scored more runs than they have, and that cant last. after considering that, i think jacque should be more concerned about his team finishing .500 rather than contending for the division...

OG4LIFE
07-18-2004, 11:30 AM
and actually, if you look at the expected win-loss column on the link i just posted, we should be 5.5 game better than MIN... but i think we're all used to this team underachieving

CanOfCorn
07-18-2004, 11:38 AM
I don't know why this is bad. Isn't a guy supposed to have confidence in his team?

What else should he have said? "A half-game lead is insurmountable. Prithee, my lad, how will we catch thy cursed mountebanks?"

Given what Mientkiewicz and others have said in previous years, this is nothing, and I expect any team in the Twins' position to say things like that.

Now, if he said, "We're a half game out now, but they'll be 10 games back when they choke like the filthy dogs they are in September," then that'd be something to put up on the ol' bulletin board.

jabrch
07-18-2004, 11:50 AM
Recently, we swept them in Minnesota, and they just lost 3 of 4 vs Detroit at home just before the break. The lost 2 of 3 so far @ KC this weekend.

The have 1 more soft week (Det, TAM, Balt) then it gets much harder for them. August is gonna be the time for us to gain some serious ground.

Jjav829
07-18-2004, 11:53 AM
I have no problem with the first part of the quote. He's right that they haven't played all that well (and neither have we for that matter). What got me was this part:

"If we play well, it's not going to be nice [for the Sox]. I'm not taking anything away from that team over there, Chicago, but it's not going to be nice for them if we play well for an extended period of time."
The whole "it's not gonna be nice" thing was a little overboard. If he just said something along the lines of "If we start playing well we believe we can win this division," fine. But saying that it's not gonna be "nice" for us if they play well seems like hes taunting us.

CanOfCorn
07-18-2004, 12:12 PM
I think as far as discussing your hated divisional rival goes, "It's not going to be nice for them" is pretty genteel.

voodoochile
07-18-2004, 01:03 PM
and actually, if you look at the expected win-loss column on the link i just posted, we should be 5.5 game better than MIN... but i think we're all used to this team underachieving
Loss of Maggs, Jose and Frank all for extended periods has hurt the consistency of the team. Not to mention that when Uribe and Harris got hot to start the season, it looked like the top of the order slots would be fine. It has taken time to rework that once they cooled off.

OG should buy the biggest board he can and write this quote up there in permanent marker. Maybe if the Sox had more to play for, they would start paying more attention consistently.

:jerry
"oh those pesky twinkies. just ignore them, we don't need to worry about things like playing with fire. Now where did I put that pillow?"

:ozzie
"I will personally kick the ass of anyone who doesn't kick the ass of a twinkie player. Remember, play with fire, because I make out the ****ing lineups... Aw screw it, someone get me my glove. I'm pitching the next inning. Hey, Jones... DUCK!"

jeremyb1
07-18-2004, 01:05 PM
Man. When are the White Sox going to stop talking trash about the Twins?!

Dolanski
07-18-2004, 01:43 PM
The Twinkies are pesky and always seem to hang around, but take a look at the rest of the schedule.

Counting today's game, the Twins have 29 Central Division games. We have 52 games against the Central. So the season comes down to whether or not we do what we SHOULD do and beat the crap out of Detroit, KC, and the Indians. And thus far, we have owned the Twins. If we want to win the division, we have to beat up on our division.

But if you look at some of the other games, well, things seem a bit easier on us. We play 19 games against contenders (Oakland, Boston, Texas, Anaheim), and the Twins play 26 games against contenders (Yankees, Texas, Anaheim, Oakland, Boston).

This doesn't mean we have it in the bag, but what it does say is the Twins have a slightly tougher schedule having to face contending teams including the Yankees.

But the bottom line is, we have to beat them head to head and we have to beat the rest of the dregs that is the AL Central.

Oh, and I realize this isn't a total and complete analysis of the schedule, but its a rough idea of what we both got to face the rest of the way.

duke of dorwood
07-18-2004, 01:43 PM
Vomit from the mouth for a bum who's team just lost 5 in a row.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2004, 02:38 PM
The Sox have beaten the Twins seven out of the ten times the two have played.

Yet the Sox only have a half game lead.

What does that say folks?

Jones is exactly correct in the first part of his analysis.

Valentin by the way was only out two weeks. With respect, I wouldn't say that's an extended period of time. The Sox losing Maggs and Frank have been huge, but the Twins have also had more then that number of key injuries.

I'm not defending the Twins but you have to call this one fairly. Because you hate the Twins doesn't make Jones' comments wrong.

And lost in this rhetoric is the essential point...that Pohlad has given permission to raise the payroll.

This is going to be a dogfight to the end...and when all is said and done I hope to God the Sox don't have reason to regret 'giving away' those nine games lost by our 5th starters before the acquisition of Garcia. The games that some stated weren't a big deal.

Lip

samram
07-18-2004, 02:41 PM
The Sox have beaten the Twins seven out of the ten times the two have played.

Yet the Sox only have a half game lead.

What does that say folks?

Jones is exactly correct in the first part of his analysis.

Valentin by the way was only out two weeks. With respect, I wouldn't say that's an extended period of time. The Sox losing Maggs and Frank have been huge, but the Twins have also had more then that number of key injuries.

I'm not defending the Twins but you have to call this one fairly. Because you hate the Twins doesn't make Jones' comments wrong.

Lip
The problem with his comments are: 1) he assumes the Sox can't improve their play, and 2) he dismisses the fact that his team has played poorly against bad competition, and will face better teams in the coming months, while the Sox will face lesser teams than they have faced.

flo-B-flo
07-18-2004, 03:05 PM
This is just chest thumping bullcrap to me. Kicking everyone in the Centrals' ass is the ultimate answer to this screed. The Sox SHOULD have enough motivation by the COMPLETE all-star snub. I mean, 5 injuns, one Sox? This alone should spur us on.

Jerry_Manuel
07-18-2004, 09:29 PM
Times like this I wish the Twins had Phil Garner as their skipper, than atleast the trash talk would really step up the rivarly.

StepsInSC
07-18-2004, 09:33 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't see the big deal about saying "It's not gonna be so nice". That's not really a flat out insult, he's not saying they're a better team, its only a conditional based on whether or not they play well. I just don't see that as bulletin board material, BECAUSE it was a conditional. If there was no "if", then yes, I would agree.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-18-2004, 09:39 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't see the big deal about saying "It's not gonna be so nice". That's not really a flat out insult, he's not saying they're a better team, its only a conditional based on whether or not they play well. I just don't see that as bulletin board material, BECAUSE it was a conditional. If there was no "if", then yes, I would agree.
You're not serious, are you? He wasn't making a prediction, Steps. He was trash talking. It's not like he has to call out your momma, is it?

:?:

RKMeibalane
07-18-2004, 09:43 PM
I wonder if Jones realizes that the Sox haven't played well, either. I wonder if he knows that the Sox have had to do without their two best players for extended time periods this season.

Probably not. The Minnesota Twins are nothing more than a collection of blow-hards with too much free time on their hands. I wonder what Jaque Jones will have to say for himself if the Sox manage to win this divsion without Frank Thomas in the lineup for two months.

The day the Metrodome is destroyed will be one of the happiest days of my life. I am so utterly sick and tired of the Minnesota Twins, and their joke of a baseball stadium. It's a pool-table with a giant trash-bag in right field.

ChiSox1906
07-18-2004, 11:31 PM
At least we are arguing about the Twins and not the ****ing Cubs, I think the problem with Sox fans is we worry too much about the Cubs and don't worry about our division rivals such as the Twins. I hate the Twins way more than i hate the Cubs.

StepsInSC
07-19-2004, 12:19 AM
You're not serious, are you? He wasn't making a prediction, Steps. He was trash talking. It's not like he has to call out your momma, is it?

:?:
I am. He was obviously *****-footing around the topic, which just makes me wonder. If I'm trash talking with someone I would never say "I don't mean to take anything away from you", I would flat out say "you suck". I think he was just talking out of his blowhole.

CanOfCorn
07-19-2004, 12:24 AM
I still don't see what the big deal is.

If the Twins play well, it's not going to be nice for the Sox. The Sox are going to have to play well to keep a lead, or keep it close. It doesn't mean the Sox can't handle it, it just won't be as nice. If the Twins suck, and the Sox capture the division by early September, then it'd be nice.

I don't think that qualifies as trash talk.

StepsInSC
07-19-2004, 12:25 AM
I still don't see what the big deal is.

If the Twins play well, it's not going to be nice for the Sox. The Sox are going to have to play well to keep a lead, or keep it close. It doesn't mean the Sox can't handle it, it just won't be as nice. If the Twins suck, and the Sox capture the division by early September, then it'd be nice.

I don't think that qualifies as trash talk.
Phew. For a second there I thought I was the only one.

oeo
07-19-2004, 12:58 AM
I for one just don't like most of the players on the Twins. Like Jacque Jones and Torrii Hunter, I think they're cocky sons of bitches and I can't stand it.

Lip Man 1
07-19-2004, 01:19 AM
It's one thing to be cocky and not back it up. Last I've seen the Twins have had a better record then the Sox the last three straight seasons.
They have earned the right to talk.

When the Sox beat them out for something then the Sox have every right to shoot their mouths off.

Lip

Chrisaway
07-19-2004, 04:20 AM
The Twins are awfully cocky for a team that is hovering around .500. I'll be there the 27th (my bday) to watch the Sox kick the snot outta them.

MrRoboto83
07-19-2004, 05:03 AM
All I know is the Tigers and Indians are only 4.5 out, this scares me as well, this division is up for grabs to anyone that gets hot

PaleHoseGeorge
07-19-2004, 07:56 AM
I am. He was obviously *****-footing around the topic, which just makes me wonder. If I'm trash talking with someone I would never say "I don't mean to take anything away from you", I would flat out say "you suck". I think he was just talking out of his blowhole.Seriously? He has to be bald-faced about it before you think anything of it? I don't think so.

If I said, "Steps, not to take anything away from your momma, but if she is out late at night it is not going to be very nice" you would just walk away?

Interesting take on things...

PaleHoseGeorge
07-19-2004, 07:57 AM
All I know is the Tigers and Indians are only 4.5 out, this scares me as well, this division is up for grabs to anyone that gets hot
Those teams haven't won half their games. Stop running away from you own shadow.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-19-2004, 07:58 AM
I still don't see what the big deal is.

If the Twins play well, it's not going to be nice for the Sox. The Sox are going to have to play well to keep a lead, or keep it close. It doesn't mean the Sox can't handle it, it just won't be as nice. If the Twins suck, and the Sox capture the division by early September, then it'd be nice.

I don't think that qualifies as trash talk.
Not to take anything away from you, but you don't have a clue.

:)

StepsInSC
07-19-2004, 11:05 AM
Seriously? He has to be bald-faced about it before you think anything of it? I don't think so.

If I said, "Steps, not to take anything away from your momma, but if she is out late at night it is not going to be very nice" you would just walk away?

Interesting take on things...
I'd probably laugh. Honestly, saying "its not going to be very nice" sounds incredibly weak and doesn't even register in my mind as an insult. It sounds more like a joke made among friends. Now if I said "what the hell do you mean by that" and got a little more clarification, of course I wouldn't walk away. But "its not going to be nice" just sounds so...Wally Cleaver-ish.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-19-2004, 11:40 AM
I'd probably laugh. Honestly, saying "its not going to be very nice" sounds incredibly weak and doesn't even register in my mind as an insult. It sounds more like a joke made among friends. Now if I said "what the hell do you mean by that" and got a little more clarification, of course I wouldn't walk away. But "its not going to be nice" just sounds so...Wally Cleaver-ish.
Suit yourself. Personally I would save my laughing for when Jacque Jones goes 0 for 5 with a K like he did last night. There's nothing funnier than humiliating a trash talker after he fails to back up his trash.

CanOfCorn
07-19-2004, 12:22 PM
Not to take anything away from you, but you don't have a clue.

:)
So if the Twins play well, it will be nice for the Sox?

I'm really not following you here.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-19-2004, 12:53 PM
So if the Twins play well, it will be nice for the Sox?

I'm really not following you here.Do you know what a butt-sandwich is? It is a feeble and clumsy attempt to disguise your true meaning. The first part of Jacque's statement literally contradicts the second part of his statement. BUTT-SANDWICH.

If Jacque was sincere stating he wasn't taking anything away from the Sox in the first part of his statement, he wouldn't need to make any statement at all, right? The second part of his statement is perfectly understood: the better team will win the division. But he *did* say something! It won't be nice for the Sox... because he *is* taking something away from the Sox. That's what makes it trash talk. It's not like there was some running dialogue that Jacque was compelled to answer to, was there?

Rhetorical butt-sandwiches are created by the feeble-minded to confuse the equally feeble-minded. The rest of us know damn well what Jacque meant when he said "not taking away anything from the Sox."

Here's another example. Please don't be offended.

Not taking anything away from your reading comprehension skills, but Jacque is saying the Twins are the better team than the Sox. We're lucky we're not 8 games down. (psst... if you're offended, you understood damn well my meaning -- and frankly you have every right to be. So what's your beef?)

This from a guy batting .255 and a giant 0 for 5 last night with a K, playing for a team with two more losses than we have, and fresh from losing 3 of 4 to doormat Kansas City. T-R-A-S-H T-A-L-K.

CanOfCorn
07-19-2004, 01:17 PM
Please excuse my feeble mind, but I don't see what else Jacque Jones can say. I see him as expressing confidence in his team. Mientkiewicz and Hocking never gave any due respect, and flat-out insulted the Sox and their fans, and that, to me, qualifies as trash-talk.

He's not insulting anything the Sox have or don't have...he's saying that if the Twins get into gear, they're going to be a problem. And I see that as true. It's a problem we can overcome, but it's a problem nonetheless. Jones doesn't appear to be the most eloquent of speakers, but nothing he said there is false.

What other message is he supposed to give to Twins fans? "Even if we play well, the Sox are pretty much going to be ahead of us the entire way, barring unforeseen circumstances?" That's not going to get Minneapolis fired up.

Maybe I just don't have thin enough skin, or maybe I'm not insecure enough... I dunno. If we need these little comments as motivation to beat the Twins, then we're already severely lacking.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-19-2004, 01:21 PM
Please excuse my feeble mind, but I don't see what else Jacque Jones can say. I see him as expressing confidence in his team. Mientkiewicz and Hocking never gave any due respect, and flat-out insulted the Sox and their fans, and that, to me, qualifies as trash-talk.

He's not insulting anything the Sox have or don't have...he's saying that if the Twins get into gear, they're going to be a problem. And I see that as true. It's a problem we can overcome, but it's a problem nonetheless. Jones doesn't appear to be the most eloquent of speakers, but nothing he said there is false.

What other message is he supposed to give to Twins fans? "Even if we play well, the Sox are pretty much going to be ahead of us the entire way, barring unforeseen circumstances?" That's not going to get Minneapolis fired up.

Maybe I just don't have thin enough skin, or maybe I'm not insecure enough... I dunno. If we need these little comments as motivation to beat the Twins, then we're already severely lacking.
Not to take anything away from Jacque Jones' skills using the English language, but if we're to excuse every tear-down of the Sox in order for him to build up the Twins, then there really is no such thing as trash talk.

I'm done. I'll leave the field to those who neither speak nor comprehend English any better than Jacque Jones.

CanOfCorn
07-19-2004, 01:33 PM
I'm sorry I offended you by choosing not to be offended.

If you have spare time, please feel free to expound the seemingly boundless quantities of energy you have towards feeling offended, and feel offended for me.

SoxBoy14
07-19-2004, 01:34 PM
The Twins are awfully cocky for a team that is hovering around .500. I'll be there the 27th (my bday) to watch the Sox kick the snot outta them.
I'm also planning on going to that series, maybe I'll see you there.

StepsInSC
07-19-2004, 03:13 PM
I will say this: there's only one situation I can think of that I would say something that lacked as much fortitude as saying "if ___ it won't be nice...", and that is if I was talking to someone who could kick my ass, but I was trying to be as non-threatening as possible while still keeping some dignity knowing they could kick my ass.

But, like all languages, English is subjective. It means different things to different people based not only on words, but through each individual's experience. PHG seems to give Jones a lot of credit, and the benefit of the doubt that he conveyed exactly the picture he was wanting to convey, which most of the time doesn't happen with the words we choose.

In the meantime, I'll take it as an incredibly weak attempt at an insult.