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HomerCoach
07-16-2004, 08:30 PM
Personally, I dont think he will ever be a star, he won't even be good.

patbooyah
07-16-2004, 08:36 PM
Personally, I dont think he will ever be a star, he won't even be good.
he does seem to know when people will "click," folks. you've seen the signature.

HomerCoach
07-16-2004, 08:48 PM
he does seem to know when people will "click," folks. you've seen the signature.
PTC is just my luck. Borchard upsets me because it was stated somewhere/sometime that KW wouldn't part with him...but Reed was moved with little hesitation.

Flight #24
07-16-2004, 08:49 PM
PTC is just my luck. Borchard upsets me because it was stated somewhere/sometime that KW wouldn't part with him...but Reed was moved with little hesitation.
Convenient to remember that quote, and forget the one where KW told the M's they could take either instead of Crede, or the one where the M's said they preferred Reed (so they wouldn't do the deal for Borchard).

HomerCoach
07-16-2004, 08:55 PM
Convenient to remember that quote, and forget the one where KW told the M's they could take either instead of Crede, or the one where the M's said they preferred Reed (so they wouldn't do the deal for Borchard).
Possibly convenient, but more likely lack of short-term memory or possibly selective-retention. Either way, Reed and Borchard should not have been presented as a "pick 'em". IMHO.

chisoxt
07-16-2004, 08:55 PM
You better watch out. This post will soon be deleted!!

HomerCoach
07-16-2004, 08:56 PM
You better watch out. This post will soon be deleted!!
Why?

SEALgep
07-16-2004, 09:58 PM
Why?Because the guy has played what, like four or five games. What kind of sample size is that to say this guy isn't ever going to be good.

HomerCoach
07-16-2004, 10:14 PM
Because the guy has played what, like four or five games. What kind of sample size is that to say this guy isn't ever going to be good. 85 MLB AB: .200 AVG and 3 HR (excluding this years .167 average)
4 years Minors: .276 AVG 421 K, 162 BB, 62 HR, 9 SB

Didn't hit for average or power, only stole 9 bases, and plays average defense. I'm just predicting a less than stellar MLB career.

STAT LINK (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?ID=4623)

SEALgep
07-16-2004, 10:21 PM
85 MLB AB: .200 AVG and 3 HR (excluding this years .167 average)
4 years Minors: .276 AVG 421 K, 162 BB, 62 HR, 9 SB

Didn't hit for average or power, only stole 9 bases, and plays average defense. I'm just predicting a less than stellar MLB career.

STAT LINK (http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?ID=4623)He obviously wasn't ready when he first played in the majors, but he has played better this year in AAA. To say the guy is hopeless is premature.

OEO Magglio
07-16-2004, 10:28 PM
He obviously wasn't ready when he first played in the majors, but he has played better this year in AAA. To say the guy is hopeless is premature.I agree. Borch hasn't had a lot of hits so far in this stint in the majors but he looks far better at the plate then he has in years before. I think Borch will be a regular and do a fine job in the near future.

LASOXFAN
07-16-2004, 10:37 PM
I agree. Borch hasn't had a lot of hits so far in this stint in the majors but he looks far better at the plate then he has in years before. I think Borch will be a regular and do a fine job in the near future.
Wow, yes, he looked terrific making the last out tonight. Outstanding. Watching the called third strike on a full count with two outs. Something tells me he'll be playing football again in two years.

chisoxt
07-16-2004, 10:38 PM
I agree. Borch hasn't had a lot of hits so far in this stint in the majors but he looks far better at the plate then he has in years before. I think Borch will be a regular and do a fine job in the near future.
Can I have some of what you're smoking?

owensmouth
07-16-2004, 10:38 PM
Don't blame Borchard for Buehrle's screw up

Wealz
07-16-2004, 10:38 PM
He obviously wasn't ready when he first played in the majors, but he has played better this year in AAA. To say the guy is hopeless is premature.
I don't know, he's 25. IMO, he is what he is. Dave Wilder holds out hope that he will be a star though . . .

Daver
07-16-2004, 10:40 PM
You better watch out. This post will soon be deleted!!

Oh really?


We don't delete posts here unless they are started by trolls, if you have had a post deleted I think you now know why.

:dtroll:

SEALgep
07-16-2004, 10:40 PM
Wow, yes, he looked terrific making the last out tonight. Outstanding. Watching the called third strike on a full count with two outs. Something tells me he'll be playing football again in two years.I guess we should just outright release him then.

OEO Magglio
07-16-2004, 10:45 PM
Wow, yes, he looked terrific making the last out tonight. Outstanding. Watching the called third strike on a full count with two outs. Something tells me he'll be playing football again in two years.I never said he's looked great or terriffic but he sure looks better then he did in his first couple major league stints. IMO, Borch is going to be fine, I don't think he's going to be a superstar but I think he's going to be a solid major league player.

chisoxt
07-16-2004, 10:47 PM
Oh really?


We don't delete posts here unless they are started by trolls, if you have had a post deleted I think you now know why.

:dtroll:
No, Dave Why??

The Tom
07-16-2004, 10:53 PM
Wow, yes, he looked terrific making the last out tonight. Outstanding. Watching the called third strike on a full count with two outs. Something tells me he'll be playing football again in two years.
Have you actually watched him hit this year. Because even though he isnt producing, he's having really good at-bats. His plate approach is superb compared to what it used to be. It's a little early to judge him four games into his stint with the sox. Besides, it's not exactly like any of the other Sox have torn it up from the plate since the break. Borchard has had better at-bats then most of the rest of the team. I don't know whether or not he's gonna turn out, but it's premature get so down on him.

FYI, the pitch he struck out looking at was further outside and lower than one of the balls he took earlier in the at-bat. The ump made a bad call. I'm not saying it wasn't a strike, but it was close and he had called better pitches balls in that at-bat. Borchard should have been taking, what could he done with that pitched, nubbed it out to chavez

balboner
07-16-2004, 10:59 PM
After watching Sox games for the last few years, it seems like the development of Sox prospects is downright awful. Whoever is in charge of our minor league instruction should be fired. Not one pitcher since Buehrle/Garland has produced in the majors, and our stud prospects in Crede and Borchard are nothing special. Borchard has been one of the bigger busts in the majors the last 3 years. He was expected to be as good, if not better than Adam Dunn. The reason his at-bats seem better this year is that he's not swinging much. He's taking a ton of strikes, which is putting him in a big hole at the plate. There shouldn't be a hitter who you are surprised when he hits the ball. Borchard is that way with me.

Wealz
07-16-2004, 11:06 PM
After watching Sox games for the last few years, it seems like the development of Sox prospects is downright awful. Whoever is in charge of our minor league instruction should be fired. Not one pitcher since Buehrle/Garland has produced in the majors, and our stud prospects in Crede and Borchard are nothing special. Borchard has been one of the bigger busts in the majors the last 3 years. He was expected to be as good, if not better than Adam Dunn. The reason his at-bats seem better this year is that he's not swinging much. He's taking a ton of strikes, which is putting him in a big hole at the plate. There shouldn't be a hitter who you are surprised when he hits the ball. Borchard is that way with me.
Our system is brimming with prospects. Many of whom are elite. There's Anderson, Sweeney, and uh ...

chisoxt
07-16-2004, 11:08 PM
After watching Sox games for the last few years, it seems like the development of Sox prospects is downright awful. Whoever is in charge of our minor league instruction should be fired. Not one pitcher since Buehrle/Garland has produced in the majors, and our stud prospects in Crede and Borchard are nothing special. Borchard has been one of the bigger busts in the majors the last 3 years. He was expected to be as good, if not better than Adam Dunn. The reason his at-bats seem better this year is that he's not swinging much. He's taking a ton of strikes, which is putting him in a big hole at the plate. There shouldn't be a hitter who you are surprised when he hits the ball. Borchard is that way with me.
While listening to Boers and Bernstein today, Boers cited a story out of a publication (the Sporting News?) that ranked the Sox farm system 25th in the majors. That sucks! Now before the apologists say that the reason is because the Sox have had good teams and haven't gotten the draft picks, guess again. The Twin and A's, both better teams than the Sox over the last three seasons are ranked in the top five. What this means is that the Sox continually have to overpay for marginal guys like Valentin (and yes, maybe Garcia). One would think that the Sox with their revenue issues, would place the development of talent at the minor league level a top priority. But I guess not.

Wealz
07-16-2004, 11:15 PM
While listening to Boers and Bernstein today, Boers cited a story out of a publication (the Sporting News?) that ranked the Sox farm system 25th in the majors. That sucks! Now before the apologists say that the reason is because the Sox have had good teams and haven't gotten the draft picks, guess again. The Twin and A's, both better teams than the Sox over the last three seasons are ranked in the top five. What this means is that the Sox continually have to overpay for marginal guys like Valentin (and yes, maybe Garcia). One would think that the Sox with their revenue issues, would place the development of talent at the minor league level a top priority. But I guess not.
The rankings were from Sports Weekly and actually it's worse than that, the Sox ranked 29th, the Cubs were 25th. The problem as I see it is Player Personnel Director Duane Shaffer.

balboner
07-16-2004, 11:20 PM
I sure hope that the Sox favoring the potential power hitter in Borchard over the solid, all-around Jeremy Reed isn't like the comparison they made when they wanted the 100 mph throwing Billy Koch over the solid Keith Foulke.

South Side
07-16-2004, 11:21 PM
Wow, yes, he looked terrific making the last out tonight. Outstanding. Watching the called third strike on a full count with two outs. Something tells me he'll be playing football again in two years.
Wasn't that a nice ending?

THE_HOOTER
07-16-2004, 11:21 PM
While listening to Boers and Bernstein today, Boers cited a story out of a publication (the Sporting News?) that ranked the Sox farm system 25th in the majors. That sucks! Now before the apologists say that the reason is because the Sox have had good teams and haven't gotten the draft picks, guess again. The Twin and A's, both better teams than the Sox over the last three seasons are ranked in the top five. What this means is that the Sox continually have to overpay for marginal guys like Valentin (and yes, maybe Garcia). One would think that the Sox with their revenue issues, would place the development of talent at the minor league level a top priority. But I guess not.
Guess not?

We have not won a WS in a million years, and you want our priorities with the prospects?

Good lord.

Get off Joe Borchard, he has not seen major league pitching in a long time. He looks tentative, but I think he'll be o.k.

Why pick on Borchard? Is he the reason we arent hitting?

He's one guy--

LASOXFAN
07-16-2004, 11:21 PM
Borchard should have been taking, what could he done with that pitched, nubbed it out to chavez
Taking on a 3-2 count with two out in the bottom of the ninth with two on traling by three on the road.

Okay. You win. I stand corrected.

Basten
07-16-2004, 11:41 PM
Wow, yes, he looked terrific making the last out tonight. Outstanding. Watching the called third strike on a full count with two outs. .What the hell did you expect him to do?

He doesn't have the batspeed and his swing is too loopy to handle a 94mph fastball on the outer portion of the plate. So he looked in and took a gamble that Dotel would miss out of the zone away and/or the ump would take a pity and call a border-line pitch a Ball-4 as sometimes happens when the team is coming back.

Him and Crede should be embarassed. Both had 2-1 counts and both tried to leave earth instead of lining the ball somewhere to LF and RF respectively; neither is quick enough to have that swing/approach off Dotel.

That runner Rowand threw out at 3rd? Borchard doesn't. Ever since he hit that monster HR in Toronto, it's been downhill for Joe.

South Side
07-16-2004, 11:50 PM
[QUOTE=Basten]What the hell did you expect him to do?

He doesn't have the batspeed and his swing is too loopy to handle a 94mph fastball on the outer portion of the plate.
QUOTE]


Then he shouldn't be out there. Go down swinging, at least make an effort. Don't stand up there making our team look stupid (I'm fully aware he isn't the only one that made us look stupid but he fully contributed.)

IA_soxfan
07-17-2004, 02:26 AM
Do we have a "Trade Joe Borchard" tag yet?

owensmouth
07-17-2004, 02:27 AM
Borchard is the failure of the day, huh?

Let's see, Buehrle gave up three times as many runs as the entire White Sox team was able to generate in nine innings, before he had recorded his second out. Uribe continued his spirit of uselessness campaign with three more failures. He was replaced by Wittle Willie who, after getting two balls, decided to wait for two more. Instead he got two strikes down the middle of the plate, which he watched, then swung at heaven knows what, to show he couldn't do the job either. Ordonez showed again he should have taken that rehab. Paulie hit one nice foul.

You get the idea? Baseball is a team game, and the team collectively stunk.

HomerCoach
07-17-2004, 07:40 AM
Do we have a "Trade Joe Borchard" tag yet?
Yeah, it was way back, part of the "Don't trade Jeremy Reed" post.:D:

HomerCoach
07-17-2004, 07:45 AM
Borchard is the failure of the day, huh?

Let's see, Buehrle gave up three times as many runs as the entire White Sox team was able to generate in nine innings, before he had recorded his second out. Uribe continued his spirit of uselessness campaign with three more failures. He was replaced by Wittle Willie who, after getting two balls, decided to wait for two more. Instead he got two strikes down the middle of the plate, which he watched, then swung at heaven knows what, to show he couldn't do the job either. Ordonez showed again he should have taken that rehab. Paulie hit one nice foul.

You get the idea? Baseball is a team game, and the team collectively stunk.
Yeah a team game...you're blaming Buehrle? 4 runs is not a lot of runs or too far above what is concidered a good outing for 7 IP. Borchard is a failure as a major leaguer thus far...NO bright spots.:(: Hope he turns it around.

JohnBasedowYoda
07-17-2004, 08:22 AM
he's not hopeless, just hopelessly mediocre

PaleHoseGeorge
07-17-2004, 08:53 AM
If not for the broken foot of Frank Thomas, Joe Borchard would still be in Charlotte and this thread would not exist.

Give it up already. Borchard is a stop-gap until a better solution can be found. If Kenny Williams would stop pretending he is a ****ing doctor, and start acting like a GM, he would make a deal to fill the hole.

:KW
"Besides my stellar major league career, I also have advanced training diagnosing stress fractures! Now I'll run my mouth to show how ignorant I am while the team's punchless offense bleeds our playoff chances to death."

DrCrawdad
07-17-2004, 09:16 AM
The loss last night does not fall on Joe Borchard, who at least got one hit. The Sox are slumping and have been so for weeks now.

SSN721
07-17-2004, 09:38 AM
The loss last night does not fall on Joe Borchard, who at least got one hit. The Sox are slumping and have been so for weeks now.

Definitely true. You cant be reading him the riot act when he at least produced a little last night and had some productive at bats. His plate approach was a hell of a lot better then most anyone else on the team last night.

pearso66
07-17-2004, 11:09 AM
I never understood how a game in which a team does so little can be attributed to 1 guy. The whole team stunk. Borchard couldn't score all 5 runs himself. He did get a hit, which is more than some people on the team. He hasn't even had 100 MLB at bats in his career yet. Not to mention he's only played 5 games this time up. When the team is hot, lets see how he's doing, at this point when the whole team is down, his little bit of production isnt going to amount to much.

DrCrawdad
07-18-2004, 12:11 AM
I just finished watching Saturday's game on tape. Good day for Joe, even if in the box score it looks mediocre.

* Walked and scored a run.
* Singled and then made a good take out slide to prevent a DP.
* Received a compliment from Steve Lyons on his play of the double that was hit to right.
* Made solid contact in two outs.

Nothing to get hyper about, but IMHO a good day from Joe.

pearso66
07-18-2004, 12:18 AM
I just finished watching Saturday's game on tape. Good day for Joe, even if in the box score it looks mediocre.

* Walked and scored a run.
* Singled and then made a good take out slide to prevent a DP.
* Received a compliment from Steve Lyons on his play of the double that was hit to right.
* Made solid contact in two outs.

Nothing to get hyper about, but IMHO a good day from Joe.
How could you say that is successful? He should have been 4-4, with 3 homers, and that play should not have been a double. He is a bust and must be traded at the earliest time. Heck we should give away Buehrle just so someone takes him off our hands.

Evman5
07-18-2004, 01:10 AM
something appears to be different about Joe this trip up. I have been impressed with the way he has been working counts so far. Keep it up big guy. I have a gut feeling a lot of Borchard doubters will be eating some crow very soon.:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:

Basten
07-18-2004, 01:35 AM
I just finished watching Saturday's game on tape. Good day for Joe, even if in the box score it looks mediocre.

* Walked and scored a run.
* Singled and then made a good take out slide to prevent a DP.
* Received a compliment from Steve Lyons on his play of the double that was hit to right.
* Made solid contact in two outs.

Nothing to get hyper about, but IMHO a good day from Joe.Actually, it IS something to be hyper about - Joe Borchard not biting on breaking balls in the dirt and not being way tardy on fastballs is something to celebrate about.

Let's hope he realizes that his bat isn't quick enough to be a dead-pull hitter against a good fastball pitcher, and instead makes a living turning on mistakes but driving the good stuff to opposite field gap - with his brute strengh, he''d be crazy not to adopt this approach.

The Tom
07-18-2004, 02:58 AM
I never understood how a game in which a team does so little can be attributed to 1 guy. The whole team stunk. Borchard couldn't score all 5 runs himself. He did get a hit, which is more than some people on the team. He hasn't even had 100 MLB at bats in his career yet. Not to mention he's only played 5 games this time up. When the team is hot, lets see how he's doing, at this point when the whole team is down, his little bit of production isnt going to amount to much.
Finally, somebody says something smart about Joe Borchard. For all you naysayers:
1. Joe's sub-par numbers in AAA are due in large part to trying to play through an injury early in the season. After his rough, injury-induced start, Joe has swung a really hot bat for the better part of the season. If you don't think he's playing well, he was in the middle of a slump when he got called up. Still, his average is almost raised 30 point since a poor start. which leads me to my next point.

2. JOE HAS NEVER EVER GOTTEN AN EXTENDED STAY WITH THE BIG CLUB. Never put up big number, no he hasnt. But he's also never gotten a REAL chance to be a major leaguer. It's always been a few games and back down. For God's sake, at least give him a chance to settle in play everyday before condemning him as the worst bust ever. Believe it or not, getting used to the big leagues is an adjustment, and an adjustmen Joe has NEVER had the luxury of completing. If anything blame KW yet again for mismanaging the handling of a prospect. Finally

3. You have to be blind not to notice the tremendous difference in Joe's plate approach now from the last time he was up. He's being patient and working the count rather than flayling at bad pitches. He actually looks like a big league hitter at the plate. Rather than being a bust, he looks like a good hitter who is struggling a bit. Does he have adjustment to make if he wants to be successful, MOST Definitely. But he is already greatly improved. Also, it's not like anyone else is tearing it up.

Oh, by the way, Borchard is tied for THIRD MOST hits on the team throught saturday since his callup. (Konerko, Lee: 4. Borchard, Rowand: 3) Not to shabby if you ask me.