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View Full Version : *Official* 7/15/2004 Sox-A's Postgame Thread


Viva Magglio
07-16-2004, 12:08 AM
Ozzie better read them the Riot Act.

cheeses_h_rice
07-16-2004, 12:08 AM
well...that sucked.

Irishsox1
07-16-2004, 12:09 AM
West Coast Blues......Make me wanna puke!!

WSox8404
07-16-2004, 12:11 AM
I love Timo Perez.

jeremyb1
07-16-2004, 12:12 AM
Ozzie better read them the Riot Act.

I don't know. It's only one game. Harden is a good pitcher. Oakland is a better team in my opinion. I think some people have realistic expectations all of a sudden.

owensmouth
07-16-2004, 12:13 AM
We didn't do anything right tonight. Three walks and a throw to nobody.

PutItOnTheBoard
07-16-2004, 12:13 AM
Nice 2 hour game. Exciting stuff.

kittle42
07-16-2004, 12:13 AM
How in the world can this team be 1-14 in Oakland in the last 15? What is with the West Coast thing? It's not like you have the same exact team every year. I never understood these kinds of trends.

Oh, and if we lose the next three, I am going into ridiculous panic mode again.

samram
07-16-2004, 12:15 AM
Nice 2 hour game. Exciting stuff.
Well, if you're going to lose and look bad, you may as well do it quickly. No sense wasting too much time. These guys look like they expect to lose every game they play out there.

WSox8404
07-16-2004, 12:17 AM
Well, if you're going to lose and look bad, you may as well do it quickly. No sense wasting too much time. These guys look like they expect to lose every game they play out there.
It really does look that way. Flat out flat.

nasox
07-16-2004, 12:26 AM
I'm sick of the way Ozzie has managed this team in a baseball sense. Handle the pitchers better, and make a palatable lineup.

Frankfan4life
07-16-2004, 12:29 AM
The Sox offense is quickly going downhill. There are too many easy outs in the lineup.

kcsportscaster
07-16-2004, 12:30 AM
All I have to say is that DA SOX played poorly tonight. I hope Ozzie does read them the riot act again as he did during the comeback against the Angels last week. I do have a good feeling about Friday night though because Buehrle will be out on the mound against a struggling Zito, and Buehrle MUST continue shutting down opponents as he has done during most of his starts this season. Well, at least DA SOX didn't lose any ground to the damned Twinkies as they also lost.

Rudy Law
07-16-2004, 12:36 AM
Oh, and if we lose the next three, I am going into ridiculous panic mode again.


I think you need to settle down a bit. Your already talking about a sweep!! Jesus its just 1 game in a park where they don't play good, against a pitcher who can be pretty tough on hitters. I think you should have drink and take a deep breathe........If they win 1 game of this series I will be happy......It was nice to see Maggs hit that homerun......(Well at least see the replay of it) Maybe he is coming around a bit........

Ready here we go.....Breath in through your nose and out of your mouth..........again...In through the nose and out of your mouth....Ah very good Danielson



P.S. The Twins lost!!

the_valenstache
07-16-2004, 12:50 AM
Welcome to www.tearsofathousandsoxfans.com (http://www.tearsofathousandsoxfans.com)

Every single time we lose, the same exact stuff gets posted on this board. Unfortunately, we're not going to win the next 72 straight games. Get over it. The same people who are saying, "This sucks...our offense sucks....Ozzie can't manage....Timo is worthless..." will all be singing a different song if we win tomorrow.

Aidan
07-16-2004, 01:09 AM
Unfortunately, we're not going to win the next 72 straight games. Get over it.We're not???

Thanks, you just ruined the rest of my summer. :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

JB98
07-16-2004, 01:16 AM
We're not???

Thanks, you just ruined the rest of my summer. :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:
I think the point is, if Ozzie reads the players the riot act after every loss, eventually guys will start to tune him out. As fans, we can get pissed after every loss, but a manager can't afford to do that. And let's face it folks, a one-game losing streak is nothing to be alarmed about. We'd be shrugging this loss off if it weren't the problems on the West coast in the past. We just need to forget this one and go get 'em tomorrow.

Man Soo Lee
07-16-2004, 01:16 AM
I'm sick of the way Ozzie has managed this team in a baseball sense. Handle the pitchers better, and make a palatable lineup. I agree. He should have pulled Garland after the 3rd and Ross Gload should play every day.

South Side
07-16-2004, 01:18 AM
Oh, and if we lose the next three, I am going into ridiculous panic mode again.


I think you need to settle down a bit. Your already talking about a sweep!! Jesus its just 1 game in a park where they don't play good, against a pitcher who can be pretty tough on hitters. I think you should have drink and take a deep breathe........If they win 1 game of this series I will be happy......It was nice to see Maggs hit that homerun......(Well at least see the replay of it) Maybe he is coming around a bit........

Ready here we go.....Breath in through your nose and out of your mouth..........again...In through the nose and out of your mouth....Ah very good Danielson



P.S. The Twins lost!!

I agree with you for the most part but you're going from one extreme to another. The sky is not falling but we better win more than one game in this series. The goal is to not LOSE series. Like you said the Twins lost. No harm, no foul, we'll get them tomorrow.

ode to veeck
07-16-2004, 01:22 AM
Valentache,

Good post and even better handle.

I'm getting real sick of going to games at the collesium, odds say we gonna win some, how bout the next three. Light em up Burly-mon!

ode to veeck
07-16-2004, 01:22 AM
Besides, Twinks lost, lets go SOX!

Lip Man 1
07-16-2004, 01:22 AM
The Sox can't win in Oakland because this has now turned into a psychological problem. It may be different players but they hear what's going on from the other guys, and they start to press and the same crap happens.

Harden is not that great of a pitcher Jeremy, he hadn't won a game since early June until the Sox pulled into town.

Perez helped lose the game but don't forget Garland's walks again in that one inning. Once again it seems, he loses focus just enough in one inning to kill him, a la that game in Montreal.

Lip

JB98
07-16-2004, 01:27 AM
I agree. He should have pulled Garland after the 3rd and Ross Gload should play every day.
I would have liked to have seen Rowand in there, but I understand why Ozzie played Perez. Timo didn't play at all vs. Seattle, and he won't start the next three days due to Oakland's left-handed pitching. Guillen wanted to get Timo some ABs. The only thing I would have done differently tonight is put Rowand in CF and play Perez in RF. To hell with LTP.

pearso66
07-16-2004, 01:30 AM
The Sox can't win in Oakland because this has now turned into a psychological problem. It may be different players but they hear what's going on from the other guys, and they start to press and the same crap happens.

Harden is not that great of a pitcher Jeremy, he hadn't won a game since early June until the Sox pulled into town.

Perez helped lose the game but don't forget Garland's walks again in that one inning. Once again it seems, he loses focus just enough in one inning to kill him, a la that game in Montreal.

Lip
Didn't Garland give up only 2 runs through the first 8 in Montreal? That's pretty good, maybe Ozzie just left him in a little too long. it happens

mdep524
07-16-2004, 01:35 AM
Sky isn't falling, but we have to see some production out of this offense soon. Timo is ice cold right now, as are Willie and Uribe, so SOMEBODY has to step up and solidify the top of this order. I will admit I've seen just about enough Carlos Lee pop ups. His base hit in the 7th was impressive - because he went to right field. Every time he tries to pull the ball he pops it up.

Let's see if we can get to Zito tomorrow.

JB98
07-16-2004, 01:47 AM
Lee had a good pitch to hit in the ninth inning. Instead of just trying to hit it hard, he tried to jerk it out of the park and popped it up. I wish he would have just swung for a base hit. Valentin was on deck, and Jose kills pitchers like Dotel. I was really hoping Valentin would get a chance.

Lip Man 1
07-16-2004, 01:54 AM
From the game recap story versus Montreal:


"With the White Sox leading, 1-0, Endy Chavez led off with a walk to ruin the perfect game. After starter Zach Day sacrificed him to second, Brad Wilkerson and Terrmel Sledge walked to load the bases. Jose Vidro then singled up the middle to drive in Endy Chavez and Wilkerson to end the no-hitter.

"Garland was in control the first five innings, and then all of a sudden he lost his composure and gave up a (few) walks."

Sound familiar?

Lip

ClaudelSleptHere
07-16-2004, 02:20 AM
Disappointing loss, to be sure, but I don't think we have reached the point where Ross Gload needs to play every day...at least not in the field.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-16-2004, 05:48 AM
Welcome to www.tearsofathousandsoxfans.com (http://www.tearsofathousandsoxfans.com/)

Every single time we lose, the same exact stuff gets posted on this board. Unfortunately, we're not going to win the next 72 straight games. Get over it. The same people who are saying, "This sucks...our offense sucks....Ozzie can't manage....Timo is worthless..." will all be singing a different song if we win tomorrow.
Don't let it get you down. Most Sox Fans aren't bi-polar, you just wouldn't know it reading the post-game comments around here after a loss.

It's the same stupid **** from the same handful of posters every single time. Once you know their names, you'll realize they're reliving their same nightmare 70-80 times every summer.

The manager needs to start yelling and screaming!

The Sox don't pay enough to get top talent!

The Sox will regret paying too much for top prospects!

The starting pitcher is a ****ing bum!

The bullpen is a disgrace!

Our manager hasn't got a ****ing clue!

Our general manager hasn't got a ****ing clue!

etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Meanwhile the Twins, Tigers, and Indians all lost and we're exactly where we were 24 hours ago (first-place) but now one more game has been taken off the remaining schedule. Yet nothing but yelling and screaming from some folks sounding yet again like deranged escapees from the sanitarium...

Do yourself a favor. Go back through all the posts made between 11 pm and 2 am and write down the names of the posters making over-the-top statements. Next time the Sox lose, get your list out and match up the names. Of the next over-the-top set of comments, guaranteed 3 out of 4 are from the same 12 posters.

It will help your own sanity to know the vast majority of us aren't thinking like they do.

:chickenlittle

SSN721
07-16-2004, 07:16 AM
From the game recap story versus Montreal:


"With the White Sox leading, 1-0, Endy Chavez led off with a walk to ruin the perfect game. After starter Zach Day sacrificed him to second, Brad Wilkerson and Terrmel Sledge walked to load the bases. Jose Vidro then singled up the middle to drive in Endy Chavez and Wilkerson to end the no-hitter.

"Garland was in control the first five innings, and then all of a sudden he lost his composure and gave up a (few) walks."

Sound familiar?

Lip

ANd it happens. I love how we single out Garland while other pitchers on our staff get a free ride when they get smacked around. And the worst part is even when Garland pitches so "terribly" he only seems to give up 2-4 runs in his bad innings and shutout the rest. With the way this offense is supposed to hit I will take that everytime. How about a little blame past around to the lineup who couldnt seem to string to gether any hits, or really get any hits or do anything productive at all minus Maggs home run. Lets all share the blame. I think Garland is one of our better pitchers and has been money many times this year when we needed him to.

akingamongstmen
07-16-2004, 08:37 AM
Don't let it get you down. Most Sox Fans aren't bi-polar, you just wouldn't know it reading the post-game comments around here after a loss.

It's the same stupid **** from the same handful of posters every single time. Once you know their names, you'll realize they're reliving their same nightmare 70-80 times every summer.

The manager needs to start yelling and screaming!

The Sox don't pay enough to get top talent!

The Sox will regret paying too much for top prospects!

The starting pitcher is a ****ing bum!

The bullpen is a disgrace!

Our manager hasn't got a ****ing clue!

Our general manager hasn't got a ****ing clue!

etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Meanwhile the Twins, Tigers, and Indians all lost and we're exactly where we were 24 hours ago (first-place) but now one more game has been taken off the remaining schedule. Yet nothing but yelling and screaming from some folks sounding yet again like deranged escapees from the sanitarium...

Do yourself a favor. Go back through all the posts made between 11 pm and 2 am and write down the names of the posters making over-the-top statements. Next time the Sox lose, get your list out and match up the names. Of the next over-the-top set of comments, guaranteed 3 out of 4 are from the same 12 posters.

It will help your own sanity to know the vast majority of us aren't thinking like they do.

:chickenlittle


Amen to that. You hit the nail on the head.

Jerko
07-16-2004, 09:41 AM
Just a little hint: If reading posts that are negative or critical about the White Sox really bothers you, DON'T READ THE POST GAME THREADS WHEN THEY LOSE! Easy as that. What do you expect in the post game thread after a loss; everyone holding hands and singing Kumbaya? I don't read post game threads after a WIN because a 4-3 victory over Seattle makes us the prohibitive favorites to win the WS around here sometimes. That's just as bad as complaining about a loss IMO. SOME fans will over-react to EVERY game, that's just how it is. I was at a few of the Sox-Yankee games and to listen to those people (yank fans) the Yankees haven't scored a run in 15 years.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-16-2004, 10:18 AM
Just a little hint: If reading posts that are negative or critical about the White Sox really bothers you, DON'T READ THE POST GAME THREADS WHEN THEY LOSE! Easy as that. What do you expect in the post game thread after a loss; everyone holding hands and singing Kumbaya? I don't read post game threads after a WIN because a 4-3 victory over Seattle makes us the prohibitive favorites to win the WS around here sometimes. That's just as bad as complaining about a loss IMO. SOME fans will over-react to EVERY game, that's just how it is. I was at a few of the Sox-Yankee games and to listen to those people (yank fans) the Yankees haven't scored a run in 15 years.
Actually, most of the post-game posts are right here. I agree those who don't want to read the complaints should not read these threads unless we win.

Having said that, you should visit the Roadhouse and read the collection of posts that were so over-the-top, they really have no basis in reality. As somebody else noted, these posters are just blowing off steam. If "blowing off steam" is all they have to offer, they should get their therapy in the Roadhouse, not Sox Clubhouse.

If you want to be a Sox Fan, post here. If you want to lay on the doctor's couch and let it all out, go to the Roadhouse.

Dan H
07-16-2004, 10:36 AM
Just a little hint: If reading posts that are negative or critical about the White Sox really bothers you, DON'T READ THE POST GAME THREADS WHEN THEY LOSE! Easy as that. What do you expect in the post game thread after a loss; everyone holding hands and singing Kumbaya? I don't read post game threads after a WIN because a 4-3 victory over Seattle makes us the prohibitive favorites to win the WS around here sometimes. That's just as bad as complaining about a loss IMO. SOME fans will over-react to EVERY game, that's just how it is. I was at a few of the Sox-Yankee games and to listen to those people (yank fans) the Yankees haven't scored a run in 15 years.
I agree with this completely. And the sky is falling image and lecture is getting old. I'll be really optimistic when I see one thing: A White Sox pitcher throwing the first pitch in the World Series. Until then I will leave the blind faith to others.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-16-2004, 10:46 AM
I don't know what to tell you guys. Here's a news flash for you. NOBODY ever clinched the division in July.

Pissing and moaning about how the Sox look in July doesn't mean ****. Only wins and losses count now. We've got a guy here pissing about winning 2 out of 3 as though style points are being awarded for looking good doing it.

I'll gladly join the chorus pissing and moaning next October (sooner if they fail to make the playoffs) but ranting about the need to fire the GM, sending down a RFer who was only called up because of somebody else's injury, or citing 1 example to assert 2 other examples are mere "flukes" is just pure bull****. If you can't tell the difference, you need to spend more time in the Roadhouse therapy threads (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37044).

All the garden variety pissing and moaning is still right here, just the way you like it.
:cool:

Flight #24
07-16-2004, 11:03 AM
Meanwhile the Twins, Tigers, and Indians all lost and we're exactly where we were 24 hours ago (first-place) but now one more game has been taken off the remaining schedule. Yet nothing but yelling and screaming from some folks sounding yet again like deranged escapees from the sanitarium...


Well put, PHG, I might also add that we've scratched off one of our tougher 2d half games from the schedule, the Twinks have scraatched off one of their easier 2d half games (from a tougher 2d half schedule), and.....we're still .5 up.

Time to throw in the towel!

Flight #24
07-16-2004, 11:14 AM
From the game recap story versus Montreal:


"With the White Sox leading, 1-0, Endy Chavez led off with a walk to ruin the perfect game. After starter Zach Day sacrificed him to second, Brad Wilkerson and Terrmel Sledge walked to load the bases. Jose Vidro then singled up the middle to drive in Endy Chavez and Wilkerson to end the no-hitter.

"Garland was in control the first five innings, and then all of a sudden he lost his composure and gave up a (few) walks."

Sound familiar?

LipFrom ESPN's game recap on 7/9: CHICAGO (AP) -- Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396) pitched seven solid innings to lead Chicago over the slumping Seattle Mariners (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea) 6-2 Friday night.....
Garland pitched out of a jam in the seventh. With runners on second and third and one out, Garland got Cabrera to hit a grounder to third and Joe Crede (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6411) threw out Scott Spiezio (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5738) at the plate.
Garland then walked pinch-hitter Dave Hansen (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4595), but got Dan Wilson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4927) to fly out on the first pitch to end the inning.From ESPN's game recap on 7/1:
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Jon Garland (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6396) hadn't won in almost a month. The White Sox hadn't swept the Twins in Minnesota in nine years.Those streaks, like Minnesota's lead in the AL Central, are history.

http://adsatt.espn.go.com/ad/sponsors/blank/blank-espn.gif (http://log.go.com/log?srvc=sz&a=1&drop=0&addata=1331:53574:141468:65&guid=B8C205E0-5FA5-4AE2-8150-1A274A05EE2E&goto=)
Carlos Lee (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6161) hit a two-run homer, Garland pitched seven strong innings and Chicago completed a three-game sweep of the Twins with a 2-1 victory Thursday....

Garland (6-5) scattered seven hits while walking three and striking out two. Damaso Marte (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6261) got six outs for his fourth save, fanning Joe Mauer (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7062) with a runner on second to end it....

The Twins nearly tied the score two batters into the bottom of the first. Cristian Guzman (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6186) led off with a single, and Doug Mientkiewicz doubled high off the wall in right-center. Shortstop Jose Valentin (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4948) smothered Lew Ford (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7061)'s RBI groundout up the middle, allowing Guzman to score but freezing Mientkiewicz at second base, and that's where Garland stranded him....

Minnesota had two runners on base in the fifth and seventh, but Guzman lined into a double play in the fifth, then lined out to Lee in left field to end the seventh.
Yeah, all Garland does is struggle in jams and give up big innings. Most other pitchers in baseball don't sometimes give up runs in those situations and sometimes not, it's just Jon who does that.

The fact is that Jon's still developing/improving. With that comes increasing consistency and the ability to get through the inevitable jams/struggles more effectively. If he was able to do that all the time, he'd be one of the best pitchers in the game, but he's not there yet. However, he's getting better at it, which is what you want to see.

PorkChopExpress
07-16-2004, 11:40 AM
Well, at least DA SOX didn't lose any ground to the damned Twinkies as they also lost.
These are the times when we need to win. When the Twinks fall to the struggling Royals, we need to win and distance ourselves. We need to take advantage of those losses.

Lip Man 1
07-16-2004, 12:33 PM
Flight says: "The fact is that Jon's still developing/improving."

Jon Garland has been in the major leagues since July 2000. Just curious...is it now a 'ten year plan' for that breakthrough season of his?

Lip

OEO Magglio
07-16-2004, 12:49 PM
Why the garland bashing? He didn't pitch great tonight and the walks just aren't acceptable but he went 7 innings giving up 3 earned runs. That's a quality start and actually a very good start, he didn't have much tonight and you could tell that from the beginning of the game yet he still was able to keep the sox in the game and actually pitch himself a very good ball game, so leave the guy alone.

gobears1987
07-16-2004, 01:02 PM
This series is the toughest we have all year.

JB98
07-16-2004, 01:04 PM
Flight says: "The fact is that Jon's still developing/improving."

Jon Garland has been in the major leagues since July 2000. Just curious...is it now a 'ten year plan' for that breakthrough season of his?
Maybe so. Who knows? All I'm saying is, Jon is a better pitcher now than he was in 2003. And he's a helluva lot better now than he was in 2002. I just think people get frustrated with him because his failings seem to come in the mental side of the game. He has the talent to be a top-of-the-rotation pitcher, but he's just not quite there yet. He's had several games this year where he's pitched brilliantly. Last night was not one of those games, but he still gave us seven innings and kept us in the game. A lot of people seem to think Garland sucks because of last night and the game in Montreal. Quite frankly, I could die a happy man if all Sox pitchers could limit the opposition to four runs over seven or eight innings on a night where they don't have their best stuff.

I'm amazed at some Sox fans. E-Lo has pitched like crap for six weeks, and I don't hear anyone calling for him to be run out of town. Meanwhile, Garland can't lose a game without being crucified around here.

Flight #24
07-16-2004, 01:48 PM
Flight says: "The fact is that Jon's still developing/improving."

Jon Garland has been in the major leagues since July 2000. Just curious...is it now a 'ten year plan' for that breakthrough season of his?

Lip
He also came up at a relatively early age (IIRC, 20). So to expect him to be the same after 4 years as a pitcher who developed more in the minors before being called up is unrealistic. Not to mention that there's a HUGE difference between a 4-5 year development and a 10 year one.

Fact is - right now he's a pretty good pitcher, who has occasional blowups. That can be said about MANY in the majors. I'd actually say that if he continues this season as he has started it, it would be considered a breakthrough season. Even in his losses, he's pitched relatively well. To give up 4 runs in a "bad start" is actually pretty good. If the Sox O comes through in a couple of his "bad" games, we're not even talking about this, we're talking about how Jon's turned the corner and is winning games for the team.

Lip Man 1
07-16-2004, 10:17 PM
Flight:

I do agree with you about one thing he was rushed up to the major leagues for no good reason. Something the Sox need to start changing.

Minor leaguers can't become a free agent for five or six years if they haven't been brought up, you don't need to rush these kids...especially pitchers.

With today's training methods a pitcher is not 'done' at 33 like forty years ago. They can and should spend three solid years in the minors learning their trade before getting a shot. In the long run I think they would pitch better, be able to handle the pressure better, and ultimately make the Sox better.

Lip

nasox
07-17-2004, 01:27 PM
I don't know what to tell you guys. Here's a news flash for you. NOBODY ever clinched the division in July.
I thought the 69 Cubs did. Hmmm....My memory is fading...:bandance: