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View Full Version : Boston Herald: "ChiSox Eye Nomar"


kjhanson
07-15-2004, 10:01 AM
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=35714

"While much speculation has centered on a deal that would send Garciaparra to the Chicago Cubs, one source has indicated the Chicago White Sox [stats (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/030/teamstats.aspx?team=030), schedule (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/030/schedule.aspx?team=030,season=2004)] still have an interest in Garciaparra. "

"Over the winter, however, White Sox general manager Ken Williams and Sox GM Theo Epstein had essentially agreed to a deal that would send Garciaparra to the White Sox for outfielder Magglio Ordonez. That deal was dependent on the Sox also acquiring Alex Rodriguez from the Texas Rangers, a trade that fell through when the Major League Baseball Players Association rejected a Sox proposal for the restructuring of Rodriguez' contract.
While Garciaparra is eligible for free agency at the end of this season, the White Sox have interest in the player beyond this year. Should Chicago acquire Garciaparra, the White Sox would do so with the hopes of immediately extending his contract, as they did with recently acquired pitcher Freddy Garcia. Acquired from the Seattle Mariners [stats (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/038/teamstats.aspx?team=038), schedule (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/038/schedule.aspx?team=038,season=2004)] earlier this season, Garcia subsequently agreed to a three-year, $27 million contract with Chicago. "

Brian26
07-15-2004, 10:08 AM
I just can't imagine Nomar would want to play in Chicago for the next 3 or 4 years. I believe LA or Anaheim will be his next stop.

munchman33
07-15-2004, 10:09 AM
:payrod

"I completely understand why."

rmusacch
07-15-2004, 10:24 AM
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=35714

"While much speculation has centered on a deal that would send Garciaparra to the Chicago Cubs, one source has indicated the Chicago White Sox [stats (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/030/teamstats.aspx?team=030), schedule (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/030/schedule.aspx?team=030,season=2004)] still have an interest in Garciaparra. "

"Over the winter, however, White Sox general manager Ken Williams and Sox GM Theo Epstein had essentially agreed to a deal that would send Garciaparra to the White Sox for outfielder Magglio Ordonez. That deal was dependent on the Sox also acquiring Alex Rodriguez from the Texas Rangers, a trade that fell through when the Major League Baseball Players Association rejected a Sox proposal for the restructuring of Rodriguez' contract.
While Garciaparra is eligible for free agency at the end of this season, the White Sox have interest in the player beyond this year. Should Chicago acquire Garciaparra, the White Sox would do so with the hopes of immediately extending his contract, as they did with recently acquired pitcher Freddy Garcia. Acquired from the Seattle Mariners [stats (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/038/teamstats.aspx?team=038), schedule (http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/038/schedule.aspx?team=038,season=2004)] earlier this season, Garcia subsequently agreed to a three-year, $27 million contract with Chicago. "
I agree with Brian that I cannot see him playing here beyond this year but it is nice to see the Sox spending a little money or at least talking about it to lock up nice players.

kjhanson
07-15-2004, 10:40 AM
I agree with Brian that I cannot see him playing here beyond this year but it is nice to see the Sox spending a little money or at least talking about it to lock up nice players.
Exactly my sentiment. In no way, shape or form will Nomar be in either a Cub or Sox (Red or White) uniform next year. Most reports have him headed to the Left Coast. This scenario brings up one glaring question though; If we were to get a quality player at the break and lock him up long term, why aren't we using that money to attract Magglio? I'd rather see us rent a great player for the rest of the year, and lock up Maggs, than sign a great player to a long term deal and let Magglio walk.

Baby Fisk
07-15-2004, 10:44 AM
AAAAUGH! WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END?!

Is it July 31 yet?

SSN721
07-15-2004, 11:05 AM
AAAAUGH! WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END?!

Is it July 31 yet?

I agree
:?:

JDP
07-15-2004, 11:11 AM
Exactly my sentiment. In no way, shape or form will Nomar be in either a Cub or Sox (Red or White) uniform next year. Most reports have him headed to the Left Coast. This scenario brings up one glaring question though; If we were to get a quality player at the break and lock him up long term, why aren't we using that money to attract Magglio? I'd rather see us rent a great player for the rest of the year, and lock up Maggs, than sign a great player to a long term deal and let Magglio walk.
Simple: It is because, although Ordonez is solid, consistent and a fan favorite, he is not quite an elite superstar, and he is asking for superstar money. $14.0 for this year? 5 / $70.0? C'mon....

Sure, he is loved and much appreciated on the south side, but really, compare what he is asking for to what big-named MLB players are being paid:

2004 salaries
Andruw Jones $12.5
Ken Griffey $12.5
Larry Walker $12.5
Gary Sheffield $12.0
Vladimir Guerrero $11.0
Bobby Abreu $10.0
Brian Giles $9.0
Jim Edmonds $9.0

So, you ask why? Magglio is not worth $14.0. Why overspend just to keep him here?

Dadawg_77
07-15-2004, 11:21 AM
Simple: It is because, although Ordonez is solid, consistent and a fan favorite, he is not quite an elite superstar, and he is asking for superstar money. $14.0 for this year? 5 / $70.0? C'mon....

Sure, he is loved and much appreciated on the south side, but really, compare what he is asking for to what big-named MLB players are being paid:

2004 salaries
Andruw Jones $12.5
Ken Griffey $12.5
Larry Walker $12.5
Gary Sheffield $12.0
Vladimir Guerrero $11.0
Bobby Abreu $10.0
Brian Giles $9.0
Jim Edmonds $9.0

So, you ask why? Magglio is not worth $14.0. Why overspend just to keep him here?
Well we don't know the structure of the deals so comparing their 2004 salary to Mags average salary isn't a good comparison. I would assume the salary will escalate every year so the first year would be the lowest salary and lsat one would be the highest.

JDP
07-15-2004, 11:31 AM
Well we don't know the structure of the deals so comparing their 2004 salary to Mags average salary isn't a good comparison. I would assume the salary will escalate every year so the first year would be the lowest salary and lsat one would be the highest.
Is it clearer to you now?

Andruw Jones
2002: $9.5M (+$3.0M signing bonus)
2003: $11.5M
2004: $12.0M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $13.0M
2007: $13.5M

Ken Griffey
2000: $12.5M [$5.5M of 2000 salary deferred until 2009+]
2001: $12.5M [$6.5M from subsequent years deferred until 2009-2024]
2002: $12.5M
2003: $12.5M
2004: $12.5M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $12.5M
2007: $12.5M
2008: $12.5M
2009: Team option with $4.0M buyout

Larry Walker
2000: $12.0M (+$1.0M signing bonus)
2001: $12.0M
2002: $12.5M
2003: $12.5M
2004: $12.5M
2005: $12.5M
2006: Team option $15.0M or $1.0M buyout

Gary Sheffield
2004: $12.5M

Vladimir Guerrero
2004: $10.0M (+$5.0M signing bonus)
2005: $11.5M
2006: $12.5M
2007: $13.5M
2008: $14.5M
2009: Team option $15.0M or $3.0M buyout

Bobby Abreu
2003: $8.5M (+$3.0M signing bonus)
2004: $10.0M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $13.0M
2007: $15.0M
2008: Team option $16.0M or $2.0M buyout

Brian Giles
2002: $7.0M
2003: $8.0M
2004: $9.0M
2005: $10.0M
2006: $11.0M

Jim Edmonds
2001: $6.0M (+$2.0M signing bonus)
2002: $7.0M
2003: $8.0M
2004: $9.0M
2005: $10.0M
2006: $12.0M
2007: Team option $10.0M or $3.0M buyout

SoxxoS
07-15-2004, 11:40 AM
I like Nomar and all...but someone please give me an argument in Nomar's favor as to his road/home splits. The guy sucks away from Fenway and is a highly overrated fielder...

jabrch
07-15-2004, 11:41 AM
If we were to get a quality player at the break and lock him up long term, why aren't we using that money to attract Magglio?
The ball still remains in Magglio's court. If he insists on a 5th year with no protection to the club, and on all the money in even payments (not at all backloaded or partially deferred like most MLB contracts these days) then he will choose to go elsewhere. He has been offered deals with the same amount of money annually, over 4 years, with some money deferred. If he doesn't like that - then he can pack his bags and go where he will be more "happy"

I love Maggs as a player. But if this is all going to come down to money for him, then he is a gready fuc&face and he can go elsewhere.

Williams and JR have made him a fair offer by any standards. It will make him wealthy beyond that of almost all MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS. It will offer the club only minimal protection - in case at age 35 he can no longer play, they can escape only the final year of the deal.

This is not JRs fault. This is not KWs fault. Magglio, his family and his agent have a choice to make.

kjhanson
07-15-2004, 11:51 AM
Simple: It is because, although Ordonez is solid, consistent and a fan favorite, he is not quite an elite superstar, and he is asking for superstar money. $14.0 for this year? 5 / $70.0? C'mon....

Sure, he is loved and much appreciated on the south side, but really, compare what he is asking for to what big-named MLB players are being paid:

2004 salaries
Andruw Jones $12.5
Ken Griffey $12.5
Larry Walker $12.5
Gary Sheffield $12.0
Vladimir Guerrero $11.0
Bobby Abreu $10.0
Brian Giles $9.0
Jim Edmonds $9.0

So, you ask why? Magglio is not worth $14.0. Why overspend just to keep him here?
I know what Magglio's asking for in comparison to everyone else. Of course, in the context of the situation, it makes sense to lock him up rather than someone such as Nomar. Remember, this article says the Sox would attempt to sign Nomar to a long term deal. We know what Nomar's asking for, and he's nowhere near the class Magglio is in. If we're going to make an effort to go out and sign someone for 12-14 million/year, I'd rather the effort go towards Magglio than Nomar. I'd rather overpay for Magglio than Nomar.

JDP
07-15-2004, 11:58 AM
I know what Magglio's asking for in comparison to everyone else. Of course, in the context of the situation, it makes sense to lock him up rather than someone such as Nomar. Remember, this article says the Sox would attempt to sign Nomar to a long term deal. We know what Nomar's asking for, and he's nowhere near the class Magglio is in. If we're going to make an effort to go out and sign someone for 12-14 million/year, I'd rather the effort go towards Magglio than Nomar. I'd rather overpay for Magglio than Nomar.
Magglio is in a higher "class" ??

Garciaparra has a higher career average than Ordonez and plays a position that is more important and tougher to fill than Ordonez.

Ordonez is going to be overpaid if he gets what he is asking for. Garciaparra is going to be overpaid if he gets what he is asking for. Garciaparra is asking for more than what Ordonez is, but given that positions that each plays, Garciaparra would be a "better overspending option," if such a thing existed.

iwcup
07-15-2004, 12:10 PM
I know what Magglio's asking for in comparison to everyone else. Of course, in the context of the situation, it makes sense to lock him up rather than someone such as Nomar. Remember, this article says the Sox would attempt to sign Nomar to a long term deal. We know what Nomar's asking for, and he's nowhere near the class Magglio is in. If we're going to make an effort to go out and sign someone for 12-14 million/year, I'd rather the effort go towards Magglio than Nomar. I'd rather overpay for Magglio than Nomar.
i dont get that mentality, lets overpay a known commodity vs. an unknown one? I would love to keep maggs here, but at 14/yr? I wouldnt do it...either way we are overpaying the extorters..I guess I agree with KW and OG if they dont bleed the silver and black, then maybe they dont need to be here...

daveeym
07-15-2004, 12:12 PM
Wow i didn't realize that nomar is only 30 and his stats are that good. Screw the home/away splits this ain't bad if it happens. Don't know where stache goes then unless he's involved in the trade.

jabrch
07-15-2004, 12:14 PM
Wow i didn't realize that nomar is only 30 and his stats are that good. Screw the home/away splits this ain't bad if it happens. Don't know where stache goes then unless he's involved in the trade.
He could get traded to the Cubs for pitching prospects. They have depth in that area. Or he could go to Boston if they don't want to play Pokey Reese at SS every day. Or he could stay here and play 3B, or he can stay here and be a DH while Frank is hurt and then a bench player later.

MushMouth
07-15-2004, 12:16 PM
I think we can safely assume that Nomar will hit quite well at hitter-friendly Comiskey. I still don't understand why we'd bring him in unless we plan on losing Thomas for the year and plugging in Jose at DH. After all, he's having a career power year, even with the 2 or 3 weeks of missed games in April.

OzzieBall2004
07-15-2004, 01:13 PM
Personally, I think this article is a classic example of a sportswriter talking out of his a$$. Why would we add Nomar when we already rotate out infield and have other needs to address? I think all this hypothetical BS is tiresome, and I also cant wait till the 31st.

Foulke You
07-15-2004, 03:16 PM
He could get traded to the Cubs for pitching prospects..
I don't see the Cubs landing Nomar because the Red Sox want to make a run at the Pennant THIS year. They aren't going to want prospects for him. The Cubs would have to trade one of their "big 5" of Prior, Wood, Clement, Maddux, or Zambrano which Hendry has repeatedly said he will not do. The only way the Cubs land him is the same way the Sox would have to land him and that is figure out a way to work a 3 team trade.

E Coast Sox Fan
07-15-2004, 03:44 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think Nomar is a great player and would help nearly every ballclub, but:

- Given the way Valentin has been playing, is he a big upgrade (considering the cost)?

- What would the price be anyway? Crede, Mags, propects, $?

- What could we get for Valentin (if he didn't move back to 3rd)?

- Are we sure Nomar's compeletely healthy?

Given these questions, I don't see how the cost of aquiring Nomar is worth it right now.

It seems to me that Catcher, DH, and possibly pitching are our biggest issues.

maurice
07-15-2004, 04:11 PM
Nomah's home / road splits were brutal in 2003, but they were fine in 2002 (.884 Home OPS / .876 Road OPS), and they're fine so far this year (.886 / .893). I don't have access to his pre-2002 splits, but it could be just one of those weird blips that happen so often in baseball (like CLee's lefty / righty splits last season).

More notable to me is Nomah's sharp decline from a great hitter to a very good hitter during his shortened 2001 season. Nonetheless, depending on the cost, it could be a good move if Nomah resigns with us or Frank is out for the season. Delgado or Finley would be nice, also.

JDP
07-15-2004, 04:13 PM
Nomar has definite home/road splits, but hitting in Comiskey would 'increase' his home stats, would it not? He currently rips the ball at home [Fenway], so in a series with Boston, how damn well would he do?

Moot point: Sox don't need him and would be foolish to send their biggest commodity (prospect depth / current roster personnel) on Nomar when we've got bigger fish to fry....

fquaye149
07-15-2004, 05:00 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think Nomar is a great player and would help nearly every ballclub, but:

- Given the way Valentin has been playing, is he a big upgrade (considering the cost)?


It seems to me that Catcher, DH, and possibly pitching are our biggest issues.

i completely agree

It's the same as houston trading (essentially) dotel for beltran when prior to trading hidalgo to the mets (for bullpen help) they had a fine outfield.

Why would we want to up the budget for a position at which the defense being played now is better than nomar's and the hitting is not a TON worse, especially when there are 3 or 4 much more pressing needs (righty in the pen, catcher, centerfield, and frank replacement, not to mention a better bat at third POSSIBLY and of course another starting pitcher, all of which are light years past ss on the need meter)

Mohoney
07-15-2004, 05:29 PM
Simple: It is because, although Ordonez is solid, consistent and a fan favorite, he is not quite an elite superstar, and he is asking for superstar money. $14.0 for this year? 5 / $70.0? C'mon....

Sure, he is loved and much appreciated on the south side, but really, compare what he is asking for to what big-named MLB players are being paid:

2004 salaries
Andruw Jones $12.5
Ken Griffey $12.5
Larry Walker $12.5
Gary Sheffield $12.0
Vladimir Guerrero $11.0
Bobby Abreu $10.0
Brian Giles $9.0
Jim Edmonds $9.0

So, you ask why? Magglio is not worth $14.0. Why overspend just to keep him here?

Do you think Nomar would be cheaper than $14 million per?

If I had to invest that kind of money in a player, I would DEFINITELY take Magglio over Nomar or Andruw Jones. The guy is .300, 30, 100 every year.