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View Full Version : What to do with potential veteran FAs?


WhiteSoxFan84
07-13-2004, 03:02 PM
Some notable free agents we have this upcoming season have not even been talked about all year and I just wanted to get what the general theory is out on these guys (current salary);
1 - Frank Thomas ($6,000,000)
2 - Esteban Loaiza ($4,000,000)
3 - Jose Valentin ($5,000,000)
4 - Shingo Takastu ($750,000)

the following players I BELIEVE are free agents;
5 - Cliff Politte ($800,000)
6 - Mike Jackson ($500,000)
7 - Sandy Alomar, Jr. ($700,000)
8 - Kelly Wunsch ($800,000)
9 - Ben Davis ($1,400,000)

Again, I may be wrong with #'s 5-9, I know 1-4 are potential free agents. If I am missing anyone I am sorry, I couldn't find any website with a list of complete contract information, just salaries. I'm pretty sure Wunsch is a goner (if he isn't traded this year). Jackson I wouldn't mind seeing let go. Politte I'm iffy on, I guess if we can't get anybody better than him, he can take Jackson's spot. Alomar can be a backup I guess (hopefully not, would love to see him as a coach though). Davis hopefully is a FA and is hopefully gone (pretty sure he is as he was a salary dump in the Garcia deal).

I would love to see Big Frank The Tank back for at least one more year and pay the man, he's stuck with us through thick and thin and he has been producing this past year and a half. If Loaiza doesn't pick it up during the 2nd half I wouldn't want KW offering him more than $2,000,000 a year (I would actually prefer he dumps Loaiza, goes out and fills up the rotation with young yet proven starters namely Mark Mulder). I would love Valentin signed to another 1 year deal ($6 mill sound good?). And I'd like to see Shingo get a 2 year deal ($1.5 mill per).

All my opinions, now I want your's, let the fantasy contract extension talks begin....

fledgedrallycap
07-13-2004, 03:11 PM
It's much too soon to throw that question around. With that said, who knows what will be of Frank, but I'm sure he'll be back because of the PR backlash of releasing the frachises all-time best hitter.

E-Lo may have a Cy Young second half thus drive up his market price more than his actual worth, either way I'm guessing he will take the cash else where because someone will over pay.

Jose I would bring brack at the RIGHT price and especially if the Sox don't make a run at Renteria or Cabrera.

Cliff and Shingo are club-optioned for next year at a higher salary and most likely will be back barring major failures.

Mike Jackson and Kelly Wunch are gone

Sandy will be a White Sox until he wants to retire or his knees fall off.

Mickster
07-13-2004, 03:17 PM
Some notable free agents we have this upcoming season have not even been talked about all year and I just wanted to get what the general theory is out on these guys (current salary);
1 - Frank Thomas ($6,000,000)
2 - Esteban Loaiza ($4,000,000)
3 - Jose Valentin ($5,000,000)
4 - Shingo Takastu ($750,000)

the following players I BELIEVE are free agents;
5 - Cliff Politte ($800,000)
6 - Mike Jackson ($500,000)
7 - Sandy Alomar, Jr. ($700,000)
8 - Kelly Wunsch ($800,000)
9 - Ben Davis ($1,400,000)

Again, I may be wrong with #'s 5-9, I know 1-4 are potential free agents. If I am missing anyone I am sorry, I couldn't find any website with a list of complete contract information, just salaries. I'm pretty sure Wunsch is a goner (if he isn't traded this year). Jackson I wouldn't mind seeing let go. Politte I'm iffy on, I guess if we can't get anybody better than him, he can take Jackson's spot. Alomar can be a backup I guess (hopefully not, would love to see him as a coach though). Davis hopefully is a FA and is hopefully gone (pretty sure he is as he was a salary dump in the Garcia deal).

I would love to see Big Frank The Tank back for at least one more year and pay the man, he's stuck with us through thick and thin and he has been producing this past year and a half. If Loaiza doesn't pick it up during the 2nd half I wouldn't want KW offering him more than $2,000,000 a year (I would actually prefer he dumps Loaiza, goes out and fills up the rotation with young yet proven starters namely Mark Mulder). I would love Valentin signed to another 1 year deal ($6 mill sound good?). And I'd like to see Shingo get a 2 year deal ($1.5 mill per).

All my opinions, now I want your's, let the fantasy contract extension talks begin....1. Thomas: Hope Frank picks up the option and not the Sox (to save some bucks...)
2. Loaiza: Wait and see how he does 2nd half....
3. Valentin: Give him the minimum salary you can afford to give him (I think the CB only allows us to resign him to K worth 80% of his previous salary.) Still, he's worth it at $4mm, with another team option if he will sign.
4. Shingo: Similar to Loaiza, wait and see how he finishes. If he finishes strong, $2.5mm will be a bargain for a closer.

5. Politte: If he continues, will probably command a large increase in salary. See ya!
6. Jackson: GET RID OF HIM RIGHT NOW!!! THIS SEASON, NOT NEXT!!!
7. Alomar: Wants to stay on, keep him at same figure...
8. Wunsch: Like him. How will he be if he ever comes back???
9. Davis: SEE #6 ABOVE.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-13-2004, 03:17 PM
Hate to say it but Jim Hendry is close to acquiring Cabrera for A-Gon (sportingnews.com) and looks to sign him to a multi-year deal.
I'd love to see Reneteria at short for the Sox but I heard he wants at least $12 mill per year, I'd much rather spend that money on Mark Mulder or 3 very good relievers.

mcfish
07-13-2004, 03:17 PM
It's much too soon to throw that question around. With that said, who knows what will be of Frank, but I'm sure he'll be back because of the PR backlash of releasing the frachises all-time best hitter.

E-Lo may have a Cy Young second half thus drive up his market price more than his actual worth, either way I'm guessing he will take the cash else where because someone will over pay.

Jose I would bring brack at the RIGHT price and especially if the Sox don't make a run at Renteria or Cabrera.

Cliff and Shingo are club-optioned for next year at a higher salary and most likely will be back barring major failures.

Mike Jackson and Kelly Wunch are gone

Sandy will be a White Sox until he wants to retire or his knees fall off.
What about Ben Davis? What do we do with him? He's still young and hopefully has potential, but that's pretty expensive and the .075 average isn't too good.

JDP
07-13-2004, 03:19 PM
For next year...

Thomas has an $8.0 player option or $10.0 club option (same scenario for '06).
Loaiza and Valentin are UFA (most likely offered a contract of some sort).
Takatsu and Politte both have club options for '05.
Davis, Wunsch, Jackson and Alomar are UFA and will most likely be gone.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-13-2004, 03:23 PM
4. Shingo: Similar to Loaiza, wait and see how he finishes. If he finishes strong, $2.5mm will be a bargain for a closer.
I wouldn't mind paying a great closer $2.5mill but 1 good year doesn't mean his proven. I still can't get over the fact that Pujols was given a 1 year/$600,000 deal last year or 2 years ago and told by the team "Prove yourself and we'll pay you what you're worth". I loved how the Cardinals handled that (almost as much as I love how they handled the Cubs). Shingo is also old (33 or 34), so giving him a 400% pay raise wouldn't be so smart, especially for a "cheap" organization like the Sox.

mcfish
07-13-2004, 03:23 PM
For next year...

Thomas has an $8.0 player option or $10.0 club option (same scenario for '06).
Loaiza and Valentin are UFA (most likely offered a contract of some sort).
Takatsu and Politte both have club options for '05.
Davis, Wunsch, Jackson and Alomar are UFA and will most likely be gone.
Alomar isn't going anywhere. If he retires, I think he'll be a coach/manager in the Sox organization somewhere. If he and KW thinks he can contribute for another year, he'll get signed again.

I can only hope Jackson is gone, and based on the way he's been treated this year, Wunsch will be as well.

Davis - if anyone can see any upside, I would like to see him work out here, but it doesn't look good at the moment.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-13-2004, 03:25 PM
What about Ben Davis? What do we do with him? He's still young and hopefully has potential, but that's pretty expensive and the .075 average isn't too good.
Isn't Davis 34 or maybe even 36 years old? Or am I mistaking him for Dan Wilson?

Mickster
07-13-2004, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't mind paying a great closer $2.5mill but 1 good year doesn't mean his proven. I still can't get over the fact that Pujols was given a 1 year/$600,000 deal last year or 2 years ago and told by the team "Prove yourself and we'll pay you what you're worth". I loved how the Cardinals handled that (almost as much as I love how they handled the Cubs). Shingo is also old (33 or 34), so giving him a 400% pay raise wouldn't be so smart, especially for a "cheap" organization like the Sox.
The sox have a $2.5mm option on Shingo for next year or a $300K buyout...

WhiteSoxFan84
07-13-2004, 03:36 PM
The sox have a $2.5mm option on Shingo for next year or a $300K buyout...
Oh, than if he continues to play the way he's playing, he's worth it.

mcfish
07-13-2004, 03:56 PM
Isn't Davis 34 or maybe even 36 years old? Or am I mistaking him for Dan Wilson?
Davis is 27. That's getting up there in age as a prospect, but it wouldn't be impossible to turn it around. Is there any way he could become a productive hitter soon?

Basten
07-13-2004, 04:44 PM
Some notable free agents we have this upcoming season have not even been talked about all year and I just wanted to get what the general theory is out on these guys (current salary);
1 - Frank Thomas ($6,000,000)
2 - Esteban Loaiza ($4,000,000)
3 - Jose Valentin ($5,000,000)
4 - Shingo Takastu ($750,000)

the following players I BELIEVE are free agents;
5 - Cliff Politte ($800,000)
6 - Mike Jackson ($500,000)
7 - Sandy Alomar, Jr. ($700,000)
8 - Kelly Wunsch ($800,000)
9 - Ben Davis ($1,400,000)

Again, I may be wrong with #'s 5-9, I know 1-4 are potential free agents. If I am missing anyone I am sorry, I couldn't find any website with a list of complete contract information, just salaries. I'm pretty sure Wunsch is a goner (if he isn't traded this year). Jackson I wouldn't mind seeing let go. Politte I'm iffy on, I guess if we can't get anybody better than him, he can take Jackson's spot. Alomar can be a backup I guess (hopefully not, would love to see him as a coach though). Davis hopefully is a FA and is hopefully gone (pretty sure he is as he was a salary dump in the Garcia deal).

I would love to see Big Frank The Tank back for at least one more year and pay the man, he's stuck with us through thick and thin and he has been producing this past year and a half. If Loaiza doesn't pick it up during the 2nd half I wouldn't want KW offering him more than $2,000,000 a year (I would actually prefer he dumps Loaiza, goes out and fills up the rotation with young yet proven starters namely Mark Mulder). I would love Valentin signed to another 1 year deal ($6 mill sound good?). And I'd like to see Shingo get a 2 year deal ($1.5 mill per).

All my opinions, now I want your's, let the fantasy contract extension talks begin....
There is no simple answer to this.

It all depends how these guys do in the 2nd half (and hopefully in the playoffs), and what financial condition this organization finds itself in.

South Side
07-13-2004, 04:49 PM
Why does Sandy make so much less money than everyone else? He's a veteran. I would think he would make a pricey sum.

skottyj242
07-13-2004, 04:59 PM
Loaiza said that he was glad Freddy signed because that would be the model he would command. If he thinks he is going to get nine million (average) a year from us I've got only two words: He Gone.

Dadawg_77
07-13-2004, 05:05 PM
Why does Sandy make so much less money than everyone else? He's a veteran. I would think he would make a pricey sum.
No leverage, teams aren't banging down his door to sign him.

habibharu
07-13-2004, 05:16 PM
Davis is 27. That's getting up there in age as a prospect, but it wouldn't be impossible to turn it around. Is there any way he could become a productive hitter soon? we have to keep davis around. if we dont who the hell is gonna be our C next year? alomar? burke?

mcfish
07-13-2004, 05:46 PM
we have to keep davis around. if we dont who the hell is gonna be our C next year? alomar? burke?
I wouldn't mind Alomar catching for us again next year, and if Burke can prove he can hit, then why not? Burke certainly can hit above the .075 that Davis is impressing us with.

Also, I don't think KW made the Freddy trade without an idea for C in mind. Maybe he thinks Ben Davis will blossom given regular playing time. I would certainly love to see that. Maybe he has a trade or a free agent in mind. I guess we'll see when the time comes. If a move is made, Ben Davis seems to have a higher paying contract than I would think he deserves. If not, we might be stuck with him.

RichH55
07-13-2004, 10:31 PM
I wouldn't mind paying a great closer $2.5mill but 1 good year doesn't mean his proven. I still can't get over the fact that Pujols was given a 1 year/$600,000 deal last year or 2 years ago and told by the team "Prove yourself and we'll pay you what you're worth". I loved how the Cardinals handled that (almost as much as I love how they handled the Cubs). Shingo is also old (33 or 34), so giving him a 400% pay raise wouldn't be so smart, especially for a "cheap" organization like the Sox.
It's also not your typical "one year"....He's been great in Japan for a long time as well....he's not some guy fresh out of Triple A....and 2.5 million is a bargain for a closer....the fact that it's not "as large" a bargain as 750 K, does not make it any less of a bargain

Bringing back Mr Zero, assuming a similar second half, at 2.5 million is a no brainer

soxtalker
07-13-2004, 10:49 PM
What about Ben Davis? What do we do with him? He's still young and hopefully has potential, but that's pretty expensive and the .075 average isn't too good.
Lots of WSI members seem to want to dump him, based on his past performance (and VERY limited appearances here). But he's only been here a couple of weeks. Give the Sox organization some time to work on his batting. KW has done ok in minor acquisitions like this. Davis also cost us nothing this year, since the M's sent cash to cover his salary. If they can turn him around in the second half, the salary will look fine for next year. If he needs more time, I'd guess that they'd have to cut him because of the salary.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-13-2004, 11:27 PM
Why settle for a "potential" decent hitter behind the plate when everyone knows the Pirates can't wait to get rid of Jason Kendall? I'd love to see the Sox try to package Davis or Burke and Felix Diaz for Kendall.

If not Kendall, than maybe taking a look at Javy Lopez? The Orioles have underacheived thus far and when your behind the Devil Rays, it's time to give up. Let's not settle for decent hitters guys, let's grab the bull by the horn. Make it happen Kdub.

Other possiblities behind the plate;
Greg Myers - Toronto
Benito Santiago - KC
Craig Wilson - Pitt (not your everyday C but would love to see him in Chicago, would probably cost a ton if he is available)
Charles Johnson - Colorado (2000 all over again?)

juanuribe
07-13-2004, 11:46 PM
Davis is 27. That's getting up there in age as a prospect, but it wouldn't be impossible to turn it around. Is there any way he could become a productive hitter soon?
Davis has got to go. Once Garcia is comfortable enough with Sandy or Burke (or maybe Jason Kendall) ship this cat out. Davis isn't even on the Interstate, no legitimate MLBer should hit under .100 after 50+ ABs.

Unless Greg Walker has some magic dust to sprinkle over Ben Davis, he has to go.

Oh, another strike against him was that HORRIBLE Kenny Chesney song had he had played for his intro music at Sunday's game. The last position player I remember getting country played for him at the Cell was Mark Johnson, and guess what HE GONE. Rick White had some POS country tune played for him too, I had to plug my ears with churros when that fat mammaluke came in to do what he called pitching, and like the other 2 country fans, HE GONE too!

Nothing against country music, but the stuff these guys picked is just not great to hear at a ballgame. More Rock, Less Talk - words to live by.

jeremyb1
07-14-2004, 12:02 AM
I'd much rather spend that money on Mark Mulder or 3 very good relievers.

Mulder is signed through 05 with a team option for '06.

Lip Man 1
07-14-2004, 01:17 PM
If you are looking for a catcher Jason Varitek is a free agent and based on the news coming out of Boston his 'confrontations' with both Martinez and Schilling probably aren't helping his re-signing cause.

The guy can certainly hit better then Alomar, Burke and Davis combined.

As far as Davis...he's what, 27? He's been a bust as a major league player despite being a first round draft pick. SI had a story on him two years ago and the knock on him seems to be that he doesn't take his work seriously and has many outside interests including modeling.

Lip

Dadawg_77
07-14-2004, 02:50 PM
Has anyone stop to think Davis might have came over to help Garica out with the transition and will be gone next year?

WhiteSoxFan84
07-14-2004, 02:52 PM
Has anyone stop to think Davis might have came over to help Garica out with the transition and will be gone next year?
Isn't Ozzie practically Ozzie's father-in-law? Davis was pretty much a salary dump and temporary replacement for Olivo.

Dadawg_77
07-14-2004, 03:11 PM
Isn't Ozzie practically Ozzie's father-in-law? Davis was pretty much a salary dump and temporary replacement for Olivo.
Other then the fact the Sox already had two catchers and Seattle gave us the cash to pay for Davis, I would say you are correct. In case you missed it, point was Alomar and Burke had little clue what Garcia could do, while Davis has had more experience catching for him. I don't think it is a coincidence that Davis has caught Freddy's games, do you?

he_gone_89
07-14-2004, 10:23 PM
heres my two cents
1 - Frank Thomas ($6,000,000) He might as well sign a lifetime contract with us,its obivous hes not going anywhere
2 - Esteban Loaiza ($4,000,000) they'll probably keep him
3 - Jose Valentin ($5,000,000) definite keeper
4 - Shingo Takastu ($750,000) see above

the following players I BELIEVE are free agents;
5 - Cliff Politte ($800,000) should be in AAA right now
6 - Mike Jackson ($500,000) hell,ill pay for his one-way ticket out of town
7 - Sandy Alomar, Jr. ($700,000) he'll stay
8 - Kelly Wunsch ($800,000) will be brought back once we expand to 40 man
9 - Ben Davis ($1,400,000) unless thats 1.4 million pesos......He gone!

Tragg
07-14-2004, 11:40 PM
Why does Sandy make so much less money than everyone else? He's a veteran. I would think he would make a pricey sum.
He makes a salary below average because his play is below average

Aidan
07-14-2004, 11:56 PM
He makes a salary below average because his play is below averageHow can you say that? Sandy catches a good game, works well with our pitchers, and isn't that bad offensively.

Sandy Alomar Jr.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4294
.269 AVG
1 HR
11 RBI

Those aren't horrible numbers for a guy that's used 2 to 3 games a week. Would you rather have Paul Bako who is making more money to catch only for Maddux and who is much worse offensively?