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View Full Version : Is KW going after Carl Everett?


Aidan
07-12-2004, 09:28 PM
Anyone have any links or news on this? OEO Magglio was saying in the chat room that Bruce Levine mentioned this on ESPN1000.

Lip Man 1
07-12-2004, 09:36 PM
I don't know if Williams is specifically going after Everett (who I'd love to have) but he is in a difficult position.

Remember the trading deadline is July 31st. Thomas is going to be out for two to three weeks. That doesn't give Williams much time to make a determination on Frank before the deadline hits him in the face.

If he's going to try to get a hitter he's going to have to do it BEFORE a full evaluation of Frank's ankle injury is complete.

My guess...Williams tries to get a hitter even though Frank MAY be able to play some. He simply can't take that chance especially when all the media reports are saying surgery is likely.

Lip

OEO Magglio
07-12-2004, 09:42 PM
Anyone have any links or news on this? MaglioOEO was saying something about this in the chat room.Almost got my name right.:tongue: I guess Bruce Levine mentioned it today that kenny might be going after Carl again. It's Levine so I have no idea if that's true or not. If frank's injury is more serious then expect, I think Carl would be a perfect guy to have dh. A good switch hitter who's got pop from the leftside. I loved when carl was here because he was such a clutch hitter. I believe he signed his deal for 4 mill this year(not sure about that) so his contract isn't that bad to pick up either.

RKMeibalane
07-12-2004, 09:44 PM
If Thomas is done for the year, then Everett is a great pickup. Since his salary isn't that much, KW should definitely go after him.

the_valenstache
07-12-2004, 09:49 PM
Please no. Isn't there anyone out there with a genuine work ethic and a big bat that doesn't make too much more than Carl? While you're at it, KW, I think the Royals would be willing to part with Juan Gonzalez.

Aidan
07-12-2004, 10:01 PM
Crazy Carl is making $3 million for this season on a $7.5 million dollar, 2 year contract...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1686888

So the Sox would owe him $1.5 million for the rest of the season.

Juan Gone is making $4 million this season so we would owe him $2 million for the rest of the season. I'm sure the Royals would love to trade him but he is still on the DL where he usually is. I'd much rather have Crazy Carl.

TaylorStSox
07-12-2004, 10:02 PM
I'm not too big on Everett. I know he's a good, proffesional hitter but defenively, he's scary. I wouldn't mind putting together a small package for Winn. I'd think most of Seattle's line up could be had. Not that we'd want too many of them.

OEO Magglio
07-12-2004, 10:05 PM
I'm not too big on Everett. I know he's a good, proffesional hitter but defenively, he's scary (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=502,28012355,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1). I wouldn't mind putting together a small package for Winn. I'd think most of Seattle's line up could be had. Not that we'd want too many of them.That's why he's the perfect guy to have dh, if frank's injury is more serious then expected. Carl was probably the best clutch hitter on the sox once he got traded here last year. Besides being clutch, he's a left handed stick. If frank is out for a long period of time, I would absolutely love to have Carl back.

Aidan
07-12-2004, 10:07 PM
I'm not too big on Everett. I know he's a good, proffesional hitter but defenively, he's scary. I wouldn't mind putting together a small package for Winn. I'd think most of Seattle's line up could be had. Not that we'd want too many of them. Winn would be great in CF for us but if Rowand continues to hit the way he has, Winn would be no better than Rowand. I think Carl Everett as our DH / backup CF would be a better/cheaper option.

I don't think people realize how well Carl did for us last season...

Carl Everett (73 games with the White Sox in 2003)
.301 AVG
.377 OBP
.473 SLG
10 HR
41 RBI
2 Errors in CF in 66 games

Now, I know I wouldn't want him in CF everyday for us but I would love to have him back as out DH with Frank out. Then if Frank Thomas doesn't have surgery and comes back we could play Rowand / Everett in CF.

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 10:21 PM
Carl wouldn't be bad, but why not Steve Finley instead?

Finley in CF, Rowand in RF/CF/DH, Maggs RF/DH

Rowand still gets regular at-bats and OF time because Maggs can DH about a third of the time to rest the knee, and Finley will need a day off here and there. Rowand can even DH a few games, too.

If Frank comes back, Rowand goes into a 4th OF role for the stretch run. Timo Perez would be the 5th OF, and I think that we can do without Gload.

I don't think we should swing a deal for a primary DH in Frank's absence when we can use the DH spot to rest Maggs every so often. Plus, Steve Finley would be invaluable not only with the bat, but in shoring up OF defense, while Carl would primarily DH and only rarely play OF.

beckett21
07-12-2004, 10:22 PM
I'm just going to throw this out there for the sake of argument, and it should most definitely be in deeppink.

But if JR is truly wanting to make a run at this thing and has decided to throw a few coins around, I would hope that KW is looking into the possibility of Carlos Delgado. The Jays have to move him, and personally I think that the Randy Johnson sweepstakes will not include the Sox.

Delgado would be a worthy replacement for Frank. He will probably end up in LA, but hopefully Kenny is exploring this possibility. Everett would be a lot cheaper, but remember you get what you pay for.

Aidan
07-12-2004, 10:25 PM
Delgado and Randy Johnson aren't going to happen. They are making way too much money. I don't think Steve Finley would be a good idea because I think the D-Backs will want too many prospects for him with the season that Finley is having. I think the Expos would give up Everett for a bag of balls.

Jerome
07-12-2004, 10:25 PM
If we get Hot Carl, Rowand better stay in the OF. He's done enough to warrant a starting spot. With Thomas out, put Carl at DH so we get the Lefty bat in everyday. But Rowand has been very good this year and deserves to start.

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 10:28 PM
I'm just going to throw this out there for the sake of argument, and it should most definitely be in deeppink.

But if JR is truly wanting to make a run at this thing and has decided to throw a few coins around, I would hope that KW is looking into the possibility of Carlos Delgado. The Jays have to move him, and personally I think that the Randy Johnson sweepstakes will not include the Sox.

Delgado would be a worthy replacement for Frank. He will probably end up in LA, but hopefully Kenny is exploring this possibility. Everett would be a lot cheaper, but remember you get what you pay for.

Wow. That's a HUGE move. I would do it if I knew for certain that Frank is done in 2004. However, if Frank comes back, we would have Frank, Paulie, and Delgado creating a big-time logjam.

Brian26
07-12-2004, 10:31 PM
What's the rule on trading for a free agent that left your team? Was it July 1 or something that a guy couldn't be re-acquired before when leaving as a free agent? Are we in the clear on this now?

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 10:32 PM
Delgado and Randy Johnson aren't going to happen. They are making way too much money. I don't think Steve Finley would be a good idea because I think the D-Backs will want too many prospects for him with the season that Finley is having. I think the Expos would give up Everett for a bag of balls.

I thought that Finley could be had for lesser prospects if Arizona doesn't have to pick up any of his contract.

I'm with you though. I wouldn't give up a whole lot for Finley either.

But if all it takes are lesser-tier prospects and cash, I think it's the best move we could make to beef up the offense.

Aidan
07-12-2004, 10:33 PM
If we get Hot Carl, Rowand better stay in the OF. He's done enough to warrant a starting spot. With Thomas out, put Carl at DH so we get the Lefty bat in everyday. But Rowand has been very good this year and deserves to start. Yeah, I wouldn't mind this lineup...

2B Juan Uribe
CF Aaron Rowand
RF Magglio Ordonez
LF Carlos Lee
DH Carl Everett
1B Paul Konerko
SS Jose Valentin
3B Joe Crede
C Sandy Alomar Jr.

beckett21
07-12-2004, 10:35 PM
Delgado and Randy Johnson aren't going to happen. They are making way too much money. I agree with that statement, but if I could have either one of the two I would go with Delgado given Thomas' current situation. Do I think we will be a serious player for Delgado or Johnson? Honestly, no.

I wouldn't be against Everett coming back, but I wouldn't be doing backflips if he did either. He is no longer the caliber of player he once was IMO.

Aidan
07-12-2004, 10:36 PM
I thought that Finley could be had for lesser prospects if Arizona doesn't have to pick up any of his contract.

I'm with you though. I wouldn't give up a whole lot for Finley either.

But if all it takes are lesser-tier prospects and cash, I think it's the best move we could make to beef up the offense. You could be right since Finley is making $7 million this season. I still think they would want some decent prospects for him being that Finley plays CF and is having a career year. Also, there are probably alot of teams that want him.

soxwon
07-12-2004, 10:38 PM
i want beltran
just get him that simple

Aidan
07-12-2004, 10:39 PM
i want beltran
just get him that simple Houston says they aren't trading him. Even if they do, they will want to make back all the prospects they gave up for him.

Basten
07-12-2004, 10:40 PM
If we get Hot Carl, Rowand better stay in the OF. He's done enough to warrant a starting spot. With Thomas out, put Carl at DH so we get the Lefty bat in everyday. But Rowand has been very good this year and deserves to start.
Everett cannot play CF. He allows too many singles/doubles/triples that Aaron doesn't. He'd have to produce at 900+ OPS levels offensively to compensate for his glove - and Hot Carl only had 2 of those years in his entire career.

And if it's a choice between Everett and Big Unit, and Delgado.....I'll take the former 2, thanks.

Basten
07-12-2004, 10:43 PM
Houston says they aren't trading him. Even if they do, they will want to make back all the prospects they gave up for him.
Houston is playing some awful baseball and yet they are only 4 games out of the Wild Card.

Their GM would get crucified if he trades Beltran, Clemens, Oswalt or Berkman.

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 10:47 PM
You could be right since Finley is making $7 million this season. I still think they would want some decent prospects being that Finley play CF and there are probably alot of teams that want him.

I'm trying to think of who we would be bidding against.

The Padres, Yankees, Phillies, and Mets seem like possibilities.

Maybe Kenny can really make a statement here and add Finley before these teams get in the mix and a bidding war ensues.

Dadawg_77
07-12-2004, 10:49 PM
If Thomas is done for the year, then Everett is a great pickup. Since his salary isn't that much, KW should definitely go after him.
I am guessing Frank will need the surgery, thus he won't be back till the final two weeks of the season at best.

mrzerofan
07-12-2004, 10:57 PM
Carl wouldn't be bad, but why not Steve Finley instead?

Finley in CF, Rowand in RF/CF/DH, Maggs RF/DH

Rowand still gets regular at-bats and OF time because Maggs can DH about a third of the time to rest the knee, and Finley will need a day off here and there. Rowand can even DH a few games, too.

If Frank comes back, Rowand goes into a 4th OF role for the stretch run. Timo Perez would be the 5th OF, and I think that we can do without Gload.

I don't think we should swing a deal for a primary DH in Frank's absence when we can use the DH spot to rest Maggs every so often. Plus, Steve Finley would be invaluable not only with the bat, but in shoring up OF defense, while Carl would primarily DH and only rarely play OF.
Why would we DH Rowand? Crash is the best defensive outfielder we have. It would make more sense to move Everett to DH and put him in center when frank comes back..if ever..:?:

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 11:04 PM
Why would we DH Rowand? Crash is the best defensive outfielder we have. It would make more sense to move Everett to DH and put him in center when frank comes back..if ever..:?:

I'm only talking about 5 or so games at DH when Maggs plays RF and Finley plays CF so he can sneak in a few more game situation at-bats. Otherwise, when Maggs plays at DH, Rowand can play RF.

dcb33
07-12-2004, 11:09 PM
As great as it would be to get Carl back to DH, or to get Finley, Delgado, or whoever else, I'd rather see KW (if he has only one more move left) go after a catcher before it becomes painfully obvious to absolutely everyone how ugly our 3 headed monster behind the plate really is....

michned
07-12-2004, 11:19 PM
Maybe Kenny can really make a statement here and add Finley before these teams get in the mix and a bidding war ensues.
Finley is a 10/5 guy and word down here is he wants to go back to San Diego only.

Ed

pearso66
07-12-2004, 11:23 PM
are we giving up on Joe Borchard already? Everyone was crying to get him up, and now that he's up, we want to trade for someone else? I'd say shore up the BP and go from there.

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 11:26 PM
Finley is a 10/5 guy and word down here is he wants to go back to San Diego only.

Ed

San Diego ONLY? The Padres will get him for a song, then.

A real shame, considering he would look real nice in black.

elrod
07-12-2004, 11:28 PM
Catcher is a more important position than DH. If we can get Kendall we'd solve a bunch of problems. Who else is in the bidding for Kendall?

OEO Magglio
07-12-2004, 11:42 PM
Catcher is a more important position than DH. If we can get Kendall we'd solve a bunch of problems. Who else is in the bidding for Kendall?I've heard the marlins but that's the only other team I've heard that is interested in Jason.

Aidan
07-12-2004, 11:48 PM
I've heard the marlins but that's the only other team I've heard that is interested in Jason. Yeah, I've heard the Marlins want him badly since losing Pudge. Kendall would be nice but he is making way too much money.

dcb33
07-12-2004, 11:51 PM
Catcher is a more important position than DH. If we can get Kendall we'd solve a bunch of problems. Who else is in the bidding for Kendall?
Definitely. Our EVERYDAY combination of Jamie Burke/Ben Davis is terrible and something I hope is no more than a stopgap solution until we can get someone better- I have more faith in a guy like Ross Gload DHing than I do Burke or Davis behind the mound....

Brian26
07-12-2004, 11:57 PM
Something that everyone seems to be missing about the catching situation is this: our pitchers have expressed they really enjoy having Burke catch. Willsy brought this up a couple of days ago. We all know Sandy is like having another pitching coach on the bench, and Freddy seems pretty happy with Davis. Offensively we might hurt in that slot, but maybe it's not the best idea to shake that position up just for the sake of grabbing an extra 6-8 homers or 20 points in batting average out of that slot.

beckett21
07-13-2004, 12:05 AM
Something that everyone seems to be missing about the catching situation is this: our pitchers have expressed they really enjoy having Burke catch. Willsy brought this up a couple of days ago. We all know Sandy is like having another pitching coach on the bench, and Freddy seems pretty happy with Davis. Offensively we might hurt in that slot, but maybe it's not the best idea to shake that position up just for the sake of grabbing an extra 6-8 homers or 20 points in batting average out of that slot.I'm going to agree with you here Brian.

While it would be nice to have Kendall's bat, a catcher's greatest value is behind the plate. Offensive production is gravy.

The Thomas situation is what is most worrisome to me in terms of production and overall impact on the rest of the lineup.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 12:10 AM
ESPN1000 is talking about where Randy Johnson could be headed. The D-Backs will want major league ready talent and money for RJ. They don't want minor league prospects and say they don't want to be like the Expos next season. :tongue:

Soxzilla
07-13-2004, 12:13 AM
Something that everyone seems to be missing about the catching situation is this: our pitchers have expressed they really enjoy having Burke catch. Willsy brought this up a couple of days ago. We all know Sandy is like having another pitching coach on the bench, and Freddy seems pretty happy with Davis. Offensively we might hurt in that slot, but maybe it's not the best idea to shake that position up just for the sake of grabbing an extra 6-8 homers or 20 points in batting average out of that slot.
20 points?

Davis is hitting .70 right now, whereas kendall is hitting around .300. And burke is at what? .270 and falling.

And when you put together this lineup...

2B - Uribe
C - Kendall
DH - Ordonez
LF - Lee
1B - Konerko
CF - Rowand
SS - Valentin
RF - Perez
3B - Crede

With that lineup....


PICK YOUR POISON.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 12:22 AM
20 points?

Davis is hitting .70 right now, whereas kendall is hitting around .300. And burke is at what? .270 and falling.

And when you put together this lineup...

2B - Uribe
C - Kendall
DH - Ordonez
LF - Lee
1B - Konerko
CF - Rowand
SS - Valentin
RF - Perez
3B - Crede

With that lineup....


PICK YOUR POISON. If we got Kendall, I actually think he would be leading off and Uribe would be the #2. Regardless, unless the Pirates ate a ton of Kendall's salary I don't see it happening. The remaining years of Kendall's contract are brutal and I don't see Reinsdorf agreeing to it.

Basten
07-13-2004, 01:26 AM
2 Carl Everett

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5073.jpg

Age: 33


2004:

OPS - 732
OPS (open stadium) - 645
OPS (RHP) - 791
Slug. (RO): 412
Ave. (RISP): 270
SB: zero
Defense in CF: real bad
Injuries: nagging


Any questions?

TaylorStSox
07-13-2004, 03:23 AM
I'm going to agree with you here Brian.

While it would be nice to have Kendall's bat, a catcher's greatest value is behind the plate. Offensive production is gravy.

The Thomas situation is what is most worrisome to me in terms of production and overall impact on the rest of the lineup.
Kendall handles pitchers really well. His offensive merit never earned his contract. It was the combination of offense, defense and game calling ability which made him a real hot commodity before his major injury. He definitely wouldn't hurt us. In his prime, he was thought of as a possible 5 tool catcher with a great knowledge of pitching and how to handle pitchers. Plus, he's a real good baserunner. Kendall is about as ideal of a catcher as there is in this league. However, no catcher is worth his salary, right now.

With that said, I wouldn't give up too much for him. Even though we do have a GLARING hole in the C position.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 03:33 AM
2 Carl Everett

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5073.jpg

Age: 33


2004:

OPS - 732
OPS (open stadium) - 645
OPS (RHP) - 791
Slug. (RO): 412
Ave. (RISP): 270
SB: zero
Defense in CF: real bad
Injuries: nagging


Any questions? What does all that matter when he produced when we had him last season? You seem to neglect those numbers. In case you have forgotten them, here they are again...

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_113946.jpg
Carl Everett (73 games with the White Sox in 2003)
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=113946
.301 AVG
.377 OBP
.473 SLG
.850 OPS
10 HR
41 RBI
4 SB
2 Errors in 62 games in OF (mostly CF)

His "nagging" injuries have been an injured right shoulder from sliding headfirst into 2nd base and a sprained left ankle. Both are very minor injuries that anyone can get. He appears to be 100% healthy now and is starting to hit.

Dolanski
07-13-2004, 03:34 AM
C-Rex plays hard, but he is the biggest knucklehead in baseball. Besides, he is has chronic knee and hamstring problems. Did anyone see the play in Montreal where he misplayed a fly ball then laid down on the turf? That's who you want to play CF? He's too old, he's too hurt, and he's too insane. He was on good behavior last year, but other than that, he has always been a clubhouse cancer.

Oh and for the record, and I don't know how this ever came up with a sportswriter, but Crazy Carl doesn't believe in dinosaurs.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 03:39 AM
C-Rex plays hard, but he is the biggest knucklehead in baseball. Besides, he is has chronic knee and hamstring problems. Did anyone see the play in Montreal where he misplayed a fly ball then laid down on the turf? That's who you want to play CF? He's too old, he's too hurt, and he's too insane. He was on good behavior last year, but other than that, he has always been a clubhouse cancer.

Oh and for the record, and I don't know how this ever came up with a sportswriter, but Crazy Carl doesn't believe in dinosaurs. We are talking about getting Carl as a DH not an everyday outfielder. Who cares if he can't field. He wasn't a cancer for us last year and it seemed like he got along fine with our guys. If Frank needs surgery and Borchard doesn't pan out, I would take "Crazy Carl" in a second. Who cares if he doesn't believe in dinosaurs or that man truly landed on the moon? :tongue: As long as he hits right? Steve Finley is the better option but I just don't see us getting him. Carl could probably be acquired for next to nothing from the lowly Expos and he isn't making that much money either. We would owe Carl $1,500,000 for the second half of the season. We would owe Steve Finley $3,500,000 for the second half of the season.

owensmouth
07-13-2004, 03:44 AM
C-Rex plays hard, but he is the biggest knucklehead in baseball. Besides, he is has chronic knee and hamstring problems. Did anyone see the play in Montreal where he misplayed a fly ball then laid down on the turf? That's who you want to play CF? He's too old, he's too hurt, and he's too insane. He was on good behavior last year, but other than that, he has always been a clubhouse cancer.

Oh and for the record, and I don't know how this ever came up with a sportswriter, but Crazy Carl doesn't believe in dinosaurs.
He was a major pain in Boston. He had no problems in Texas and certainly didn't burn any bridges around here.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 03:50 AM
He was a major pain in Boston. He had no problems in Texas and certainly didn't burn any bridges around here. Agreed, and it seemed like he had fun here. I can't say the same thing about playing in Montreal. :(:

:everett: (http://misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)
"I loved wearing this cap!"

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5073.jpg
"Please, get me back! I'm dyin' here!"

StillMissOzzie
07-13-2004, 04:11 AM
C-Rex plays hard, but he is the biggest knucklehead in baseball. Besides, he is has chronic knee and hamstring problems. Did anyone see the play in Montreal where he misplayed a fly ball then laid down on the turf? That's who you want to play CF? He's too old, he's too hurt, and he's too insane. He was on good behavior last year, but other than that, he has always been a clubhouse cancer.

Oh and for the record, and I don't know how this ever came up with a sportswriter, but Crazy Carl doesn't believe in dinosaurs.
Welcome to WSI!!! I believe that he was on his best behavior last year a/c he was at the end of a contract, and didn't want to muck up things. I'd love to see Carl back as a DH ONLY, but throw his glove into the deepest part of Lake Michigan. I saw some ESPN "highlights" of Carl a few days ago, and brutal isn't an adequate description of his defensive play.

SMO
:gulp:

fquaye149
07-13-2004, 04:32 AM
how quickly everyone forgets.

Carl was outstanding for us.

Obviously he's not a wizard with the glove, but he sure didn't cost us any games last year.

As for the way he's playing this year, gee, did anyone consider that it had anything to with playing for montreal? Where he has no lineup protection whatsoever?

He's not the number one player we could get, but he's certainly one of the most realistic.

If any one of you would be upset if KW picked him up, you're crazy, especially now with frank gone.

Oh, and he's a SWITCH HITTER.

The only concern I have is whether he's healthy.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 04:34 AM
how quickly everyone forgets.

Carl was outstanding for us.

Obviously he's not a wizard with the glove, but he sure didn't cost us any games last year.

As for the way he's playing this year, gee, did anyone consider that it had anything to with playing for montreal? Where he has no lineup protection whatsoever?

He's not the number one player we could get, but he's certainly one of the most realistic.

If any one of you would be upset if KW picked him up, you're crazy, especially now with frank gone.

Oh, and he's a SWITCH HITTER.

The only concern I have is whether he's healthy. I know, everyone seems to forget how great Carl was with us just because we blew it last season. And yeah... HE CAN SWITCH HIT TOO!!! He just kills right-handed pitchers.

SSN721
07-13-2004, 08:05 AM
As a cheap DH option you can definitely sign me up for Carl. As long as he is not playing CF or only very very limited time out there I wouldnt mind seeing him back in black again. Very clutch for us last year and he seemed to be the only play with heart and drive in that last series up in the dome where we tanked it and ended the season.

Basten
07-13-2004, 09:00 AM
What does all that matter when he produced when we had him last season? You seem to neglect those numbers. In case you have forgotten them, here they are again...

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_113946.jpg
Carl Everett (73 games with the White Sox in 2003)
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=113946
.301 AVG
.377 OBP
.473 SLG
.850 OPS
10 HR
41 RBI
4 SB
2 Errors in 62 games in OF (mostly CF)

His "nagging" injuries have been an injured right shoulder from sliding headfirst into 2nd base and a sprained left ankle. Both are very minor injuries that anyone can get. He appears to be 100% healthy now and is starting to hit.
Actually.....

1. When you adjust those numbers for his defense (as in, he hits an RBI double and then next inning costs you an RBI "double" by misplaying a liner in the gap), they aren't nearly as impressive as you make them out as. He also couldn't throw anybody out from CF, but hey, who's counting, right....Well, ME.

2. He has a whole cocktail of health concerns, not just the ones you mentioned. And yes, they DO matter very much.

3. At this stage of his (or anyone's) career, it's what have you done for me lately. Especially when it comes to Crazy Carl. The aformentioned 2004 numbers are awful for a DH.

Does that mean I would be against the trade? Of course not, if he comes cheaply, then Sox should take that chance, to be sure. Just don't expect him to come CLOSE to making up for Big Frank's (esp what he was doing when he actually could plant his front foot without wringing in pain) absence. That is all.

Dolanski
07-13-2004, 11:04 AM
I will say that a Crazy Carl deal sounds exactly like a JR/KW kinda deal. In other words, CHEAP. But the rumors are flying around that KW has a bit more to spend so maybe, just maybe, the Sox don't go for the cheapest option. They didn't with Freddy (still love that they trumped the Evil Empire), so maybe they don't do that here?


Seriously though, dinosaurs? Man on the moon? Where does he get this stuff? And how the hell does a reporter get that kind of info out of a guy?

Basten
07-13-2004, 11:21 AM
I will say that a Crazy Carl deal sounds exactly like a JR/KW kinda deal. In other words, CHEAP. But the rumors are flying around that KW has a bit more to spend so maybe, just maybe, the Sox don't go for the cheapest option. They didn't with Freddy (still love that they trumped the Evil Empire), so maybe they don't do that here?


Seriously though, dinosaurs? Man on the moon? Where does he get this stuff? And how the hell does a reporter get that kind of info out of a guy?You know what, Dolanski? I almost would rather take a chance on cheap Everett if that means Sox are willing to pay the remaining 5 un-deferred Mill on Randy Johnson's contract this year......than to go after an expensive bat like Delgado, for instance and pretty much give up on getting more pitching.

Krazy Carl could hold down the fort until Frank comes back.

sendimjoey
07-13-2004, 11:27 AM
I think there is a better option than Carl Everett (although that would help the club sell all those Everett All-Star jerseys :D: ). His name is Jeromy Burnitz, he bats left handed, he can at least be adequate defensively and he is making $1.25 million this season for the Rockies in the first year of a one-year contract, as Rooney and Farmer like to say. Yes, his numbers are inflated by playing at Coors Field, but look at his home/road splits:

AVG OBP SLG OPS
Overall .287 .356 .551 .907
Home .329 .387 .636 1.023
Road .252 .330 .479 .809

(Full splits here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5061&type=batting&year=2004)

If we judge him just on his road production, Burnitz looks OK, especially when his cost, both in terms of players and dollars, shouldn't be much (I think an A-ball prospect or two would get it done; maybe we could throw in Gload). Plus, the Cell's not such a bad park for hitters, right?

The biggest issue is whether he'd be comfortable as a DH. Maggs, Lee and Burnitz could share LF, RF and DH in a rotation. Burnitz is not a head case, to my recollection (I don't Everett would be, either, but it's a possibility).

The Sox could do this deal and still add another piece that's more expensive -- a reliever, a catcher. But he's probably sick of hearing that Pearl Jam song by now. :cool:

Edit/Add: I know the Rockies are trying to move Preston Wilson instead, because of his huge contract, but I don't see why the Rockies wouldn't take a chance on getting a young, cheap player who could pan out in return for a guy who can walk at the end of the season.

Randar68
07-13-2004, 11:32 AM
He was a major pain in Boston. He had no problems in Texas and certainly didn't burn any bridges around here.
Agreed.

I'll tell you all something. If Frank is out for the season or won't be 100% the rest o the year, I'd go get Carl in a NY minute. Maggs should be able to play RF within a week or so, and then you go back to your CF Timo/Rowand platoon with Maggs in RF and Carl as the DH. You can put Carl in LF or RF giving CLee or Maggs a chance to DH on occasion.

The Sox could definitely benefit from a LH'd middle-of-the-order hitter. You're all kidding yourself if you say otherwise (as long as he doesn't play CF).

The middle of the order consisting of Maggs, Carl, CLee, Konerko, Valentin is a hell of a lot more dangerous than removing Carl and moving everyone else up a spot.

jabrch
07-13-2004, 11:33 AM
I think this all depends on Frank. If he is out for 2-3 weeks - we can live without adding a starter type bat. If it is going to be longer, we need to seriously consider our options (Everett, Burnitz, Beltran, Wilson, Spezio, etc.) to DH/OF.

Flight #24
07-13-2004, 11:37 AM
Why is everyone talking about Everett in the OF? between ARow, LTP, & Maggs we have guys to play the field. What we need is someone to DH and maybe occasionally spell someone in the field. Carl fits the bill well as he's relatively cheap, can be had pretty easily, and fits with this team's attitude (based on his time with the team last season).

Trade something low for Carl (really, the Expos would probably give him away to clear the salary), then Cotts+Anderson+Uribe/Harris for Randy. That's about as good a deal as anyone can offer the DBacks, and adding Randy to the team makes us the WS favorite IMO (thereby fitting his requirements). He'd also be coming to a situation where he'd OWN the city.

Then let Maggs walk and build around the best starting rotation in the AL and the offensive core of Frank, Lee, Paulie, Val (resigned), Crede, ARow, LTP, Uribe/Harris with Everett as a reserve OF/DH. That's a WS favorite this year and a contedner next year (and we can always go add a bat at the deadline in '05).

Edit: Timo's ANOTHER OF option that can hit decently and field well. Everett woudl come here for his bat as a temporary Frank replcement and to spell Frank to keep those spurs from hindering him more (assuming he's back sooner rather than later). Carl can really help keep the O afloat and then we can hopefully get Frank back around the end of the year for the playoffs.

Randar68
07-13-2004, 11:39 AM
I think this all depends on Frank. If he is out for 2-3 weeks - we can live without adding a starter type bat. If it is going to be longer, we need to seriously consider our options (Everett, Burnitz, Beltran, Wilson, Spezio, etc.) to DH/OF.
I agree. I'm not opposed to getting Beltran regardless, but outside of Beltran, I would only get one of those other guys if the price was right and if Frank was going to be out a long time.

I definitely prefer guy who are:
1) LH'd
2) Not terribly K-prone (actually, more concerned with BB's)

Carl was absolutely clutch last year for us and I would definitely prefer him over the other names and albatross salaries on the list.

sendimjoey
07-13-2004, 11:40 AM
I think this all depends on Frank. If he is out for 2-3 weeks - we can live without adding a starter type bat. If it is going to be longer, we need to seriously consider our options (Everett, Burnitz, Beltran, Wilson, Spezio, etc.) to DH/OF.
I think they could get Burnitz cheaply enough that it won't matter about Thomas's condition. If Frank can avoid surgery (and I am praying that he will), Burnitz is still a nice outfielder to give days off to Lee, Ordonez and Rowand, and he's a good left-handed pinch hitter (and we will be pinch hitting a lot for Alomar and Burke).

Maybe I just like that song too much :redface: .

jabrch
07-13-2004, 11:41 AM
I agree. I'm not opposed to getting Beltran regardless, but outside of Beltran, I would only get one of those other guys if the price was right and if Frank was going to be out a long time.

I definitely prefer guy who are:
1) LH'd
2) Not terribly K-prone (actually, more concerned with BB's)

Carl was absolutely clutch last year for us and I would definitely prefer him over the other names and albatross salaries on the list.
I agree - we posted before at the same time - so there was some redundancy there. I'd take Carl. He'd fit well hitting 5ish in this lineup. And even if/when Frank comes back, he'd be tremendously valuable in the playoffs in an NL park. I just don't want to see him starting in the OF (anywhere in the OF) for us.

Did he sign a 1 year deal in Montreal, or a 2 year deal? That may have some impact also. Although he should be easily tradeable in the offseason.

Randar68
07-13-2004, 11:43 AM
Did he sign a 1 year deal in Montreal, or a 2 year deal? That may have some impact also. Although he should be easily tradeable in the offseason.


"Everett's complex contract will pay him either $3 million for one year, $7.5 million for two seasons or $12 million for three years. He receives a $3 million salary in 2004 and a $4 million player option for 2005. If he exercises it, Montreal would get a $5 million team option for 2006 with a $500,000 buyout"

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/expos/2003-12-15-everett_x.htm

Dolanski
07-13-2004, 11:44 AM
All this talk about getting a DH? Man, we got a ready for prime time player and his name is Ross Gload. If that doesn't float your boat, we can always coax bench coach Harold Baines out of retirement.

Randar68
07-13-2004, 11:45 AM
All this talk about getting a DH? Man, we got a ready for prime time player and his name is Ross Gload. If that doesn't float your boat, we can always coax bench coach Harold Baines out of retirement.
:whatever:

Flight #24
07-13-2004, 11:49 AM
"Everett's complex contract will pay him either $3 million for one year, $7.5 million for two seasons or $12 million for three years. He receives a $3 million salary in 2004 and a $4 million player option for 2005. If he exercises it, Montreal would get a $5 million team option for 2006 with a $500,000 buyout"

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/expos/2003-12-15-everett_x.htm
Negligible costthis year, then Next year you add Valentin ($5mil - resigned), Everett ($4mil), Randy ($10mil) and subtract Maggs ($14mil). Net increase - $5mil, basically washing out the savings from Koch. Payroll increase of 10-15mil (and with RJ, revenues should increase by at least that much) give you plenty to pay for assorted raises and a #4 veteran starter and/or veteran C.

Basten
07-13-2004, 11:51 AM
His name is Jeromy Burnitz, he bats left handed, he can at least be adequate defensively and he is making $1.25 million this season .
I like the way you think, and I have a feeling JR would too.

And don't look now, but USCF is a bigger HR paradise than even Coors.

Bring his LH bat aboard, Kenny - forget Carl.

Randar68
07-13-2004, 11:55 AM
I like the way you think, and I have a feeling JR would too.

And don't look now, but USCF is a bigger HR paradise than even Coors.

Bring his LH bat aboard, Kenny - forget Carl.
OK, again, what is the fascination with Burnitz over Carl Everett? I'm just asking why one would prefer Burnitz over Carl when we're talking about a DH or corner OF'er?

sendimjoey
07-13-2004, 11:58 AM
I would take Burnitz over Everett because he costs less now, doesn't have a contract for next year, produces at a similar rate and is a better outfielder if we need him in that capacity.

I don't think it's a necessity for the Sox to trade for either of these guys. But if they're going to make such a move, I think Burnitz is better.

Edit/add: Basten, the home run factor is only part of what's great about hitting at Coors. The cow pasture-sized outfield allows a lot of shallow flyballs and weak liners to fall in for hits that might be caught in other parks. So I would expect Burnitz's average to drop even if he maintained his power production.

Basten
07-13-2004, 12:18 PM
OK, again, what is the fascination with Burnitz over Carl Everett? I'm just asking why one would prefer Burnitz over Carl when we're talking about a DH or corner OF'er?"Fascination"? Please.

Last year who cares. Everett is simply terrible this year - do you need me to re-post the pertinent stats or are you capable of clicking on 'Page 4' of this thread?

I will take either Burnitz or Everett simply because our other option at DH is Borchard.

The reason I would like Burnitz is that he is better RF than Everett, costs 2 Mill less (and is not a multi-year commitment) and will find USCF to his HR liking. I am not excited about either, but whatever.

mdep524
07-13-2004, 12:18 PM
I loved Carl when he was here last year- he did a great job for us and brought some serious intensity to the clubhouse. But the fact is his game has fallen off significantly from last year to now. While I might still take an inexpensive chance on him, he's probably not going to play as well as he did last year.

If we are going to trade for a Carl, my vote is for Crawford.

Randar68
07-13-2004, 12:23 PM
"Fascination"? Please.

Last year who cares. Everett is simply terrible this year - do you need me to re-post the pertinent stats or are you capable of clicking on 'Page 4' of this thread?

I will take either Burnitz or Everett simply because our other option at DH is Borchard.

The reason I would like Burnitz is that he is better RF than Everett, costs 2 Mill less (and is not a multi-year commitment) and will find USCF to his HR liking. I am not excited about either, but whatever.OK. Burnitz' road numbers are crap. Carl had been hurt early in the season, no? Burnitz has disappeared in the past when counted on, while Carl was the only guy mashing the ball last September. Carl also plays in Montreal, the opposite of Coors.

Make him a DH where he doesn't risk injury in the field and can get/stay healthy. Sorry, Carl's not 38 years old, this isn't some kind of sudden aging problem for him.

Burnitz has been a toad everytime a team has depended on him to produce. No thank you.

Basten
07-13-2004, 12:26 PM
.

Edit/add: Basten, the home run factor is only part of what's great about hitting at Coors. The cow pasture-sized outfield allows a lot of shallow flyballs and weak liners to fall in for hits that might be caught in other parks. So I would expect Burnitz's average to drop even if he maintained his power production.
His average was never his strong suit anyway, but his LH uppercut swing is gonna LOVE USCF.

sendimjoey
07-13-2004, 12:38 PM
Burnitz has been a toad everytime a team has depended on him to produce. No thank you.Could you be more specific? I took a look at his career numbers again after reading your post. I agree that he didn't help the Dodgers any last year, but that's the only example I could come up with. Besides that, that team was hopeless. One player (edit: except Barry Bonds) wasn't going to make that big a difference in the Dodgers' inability to score runs.

(Burnitz's career stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnije01.shtml)

I also don't think his road numbers are crap. They're not All-Star level, but they're not crap. It's a cost/benefit tradeoff. I wouldn't want the Sox to be stuck paying Everett $4 million next year when they won't need him (either Maggs comes back or Borchard gets a shot at the job full time). Corner outfielders of Everett's ability are readily available in the offseason at less cost. Even if I accept your argument that Everett > Burnitz for this year, I don't think the difference between them justifies taking on the extra liability of Everett's contract. It's not like Everett greatly improves the team's chances at making a WS run. He would fill the need of replacing an injured Thomas that I think Burnitz could fill just as well and at less cost now and in the future.

Basten
07-13-2004, 12:42 PM
OK. Burnitz' road numbers are crap. Carl had been hurt early in the season, no? Burnitz has disappeared in the past when counted on, while Carl was the only guy mashing the ball last September. Carl also plays in Montreal, the opposite of Coors.

Make him a DH where he doesn't risk injury in the field and can get/stay healthy. Sorry, Carl's not 38 years old, this isn't some kind of sudden aging problem for him.

Burnitz has been a toad everytime a team has depended on him to produce. No thank you.Burnitz is a power FB hitter (hell, he's grounded into ZERO double plays in 300 atbats this year) -- USCF remember?

You have no idea if it's an "aging" problem or "crazy" problem, or if his injuries are still bothering him or not. Everett's bat seems slower than last year, too, and his stats are downright awful.

I don't want Magglio anywhere near RF in the next month - let him take it easy on that knee. Burnitz has solid range in RF and a good arm. Everett is just a DH at this point.

His contract is also Sox-friendly. I'll take Everett only if Burnitz is taken, which he won't be.

pearso66
07-13-2004, 01:10 PM
I'd rather have Everett over Burnitz. But I'd rather stick with Borchard. There is no possible way that I would want Burnitz wearing a Sox jersey. Does anyone remember when he played for the Mets? He was one of their worst hitters. How quickly everyone forgets when he starts hitting again in colorado.

Oh yeah, and another guy who swings solely for the fences is exactly what this team needs.

yeboredsox
07-13-2004, 01:25 PM
Aaron Rowand says Hi and would like to remind everyone that he is batting .297 and being paid 340,000 dollars.

jabrch
07-13-2004, 01:30 PM
I'd take either one. Burnitz or Everett would help this team - surely if Frank is out for an extended period of time.

habibharu
07-13-2004, 01:33 PM
why do we need carl everett? is everybody forgetting that aaron rowand has been doing a pretty good job in CF? there is no need to waste prospects to get carl, who is slightly, if that, better than aaron right now. we should focus on johnson or kendall and mesa

jabrch
07-13-2004, 01:37 PM
why do we need carl everett? is everybody forgetting that aaron rowand has been doing a pretty good job in CF? there is no need to waste prospects to get carl, who is slightly, if that, better than aaron right now. we should focus on johnson or kendall and mesa

Frank may be out for a long time. Rowand is fine in CF - but we may need a DH. Nobody wants to acquire Everett to play CF (I hope).

SoxxoS
07-13-2004, 01:58 PM
IIRC, Carl was very clutch for us last year in key situations...that is a guy you like to have come the stretch run...

Not to mention one of the best 2 strike hitters in the majors.

denev1
07-13-2004, 02:00 PM
Welcome to WSI!!! I believe that he was on his best behavior last year a/c he was at the end of a contract, and didn't want to muck up things. I'd love to see Carl back as a DH ONLY, but throw his glove into the deepest part of Lake Michigan. I saw some ESPN "highlights" of Carl a few days ago, and brutal isn't an adequate description of his defensive play.

SMO
:gulp:
Yeah, the "highlight" where he missed the fly ball and instead of getting up and going after the ball, he fell asleep in the grass!! That was too funny... My vote would be for DH only....

DaveIsHere
07-13-2004, 02:07 PM
Aaron Rowand says Hi and would like to remind everyone that he is batting .297 and being paid 340,000 dollars.Yeah Aaron rocks and he should get at least 345,000 next year, ya know cost of living increase.

Honestly for some reason I think he will always be overlooked, he is and has been a favorite of mine since he started playing with the Sox, the guys busts his ass and gives it all, but for some reason he doesnt get any credit, but he should get at least 5,000 more next year:D:

Clarkdog
07-13-2004, 02:12 PM
As great as it would be to get Carl back to DH, or to get Finley, Delgado, or whoever else, I'd rather see KW (if he has only one more move left) go after a catcher before it becomes painfully obvious to absolutely everyone how ugly our 3 headed monster behind the plate really is....What if KW could work a deal to take Everett's contract off the Expos books of which he will be due at least $6M by 2006 provided the deal also included Brian Schneider - the Expos' defensively solid, left handed hitting catcher?

:rolleyes:

Harris/Uribe
Rowand
Ordonez
Lee
Konerko
Everett/Borchard
Valentin
Crede
Schneider

We'd still need another bullpen arm, but that lineup would score runs and we'd be more left handed.

kittle42
07-13-2004, 02:25 PM
why do we need carl everett? is everybody forgetting that aaron rowand has been doing a pretty good job in CF? there is no need to waste prospects to get carl, who is slightly, if that, better than aaron right now. we should focus on johnson or kendall and mesa
If Jose Mesa ever dons a Sox uniform, I am turning in my Sox Fan Card.

OEO Magglio
07-13-2004, 03:02 PM
IIRC, Carl (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=502,28012355,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1) was very clutch for us last year in key situations...that is a guy you like to have come the stretch run...

Not to mention one of the best 2 strike hitters in the majors.Exactly. Also no thanks to Burnitz he strikes out to much and only tries to hit homers...yes he's left handed but another guy who only swings for the fences is not what this team needs. Carl provides pop while coming through with some huge clutch hits, carl would be a perfect fit for the sox if Frank is out for a long time.

Basten
07-13-2004, 03:26 PM
Exactly. Also no thanks to Burnitz he strikes out to much and only tries to hit homers...yes he's left handed but another guy who only swings for the fences is not what this team needs. Carl provides pop while coming through with some huge clutch hits, carl would be a perfect fit for the sox if Frank is out for a long time.If Burnitz could even remotely carry over his Coors production to USCF, who cares if he hits for power? It's as if a 2-run homer is somehow less important than a 2-out RBI base-hit.....Ridiculous.

And again....he is better defensively than Everett at this point and costs less.

Clutch hitter? Everett is hitting 270 with RISP with 410 Slugging with RO. That's pretty mediocre for anyone, let alone a DH. He's toast.

sendimjoey
07-13-2004, 03:30 PM
Exactly. Also no thanks to Burnitz he strikes out to much and only tries to hit homers...yes he's left handed but another guy who only swings for the fences is not what this team needs. Carl provides pop while coming through with some huge clutch hits, carl would be a perfect fit for the sox if Frank is out for a long time.
Career numbers, not including this season:
Jeromy Burnitz, 1,069 strikeouts in 4,252 at-bats, or 3.98 at-bats/strikeout
Carl Everett, 820 strikeouts in 3,730 at-bats, or 4.54 at-bats/strikeout.
(Source: baseball-reference.com)

Another way to put it: Every other game, Burnitz would be expected to strikeout one more time than Everett, based on their histories.

Is that worth committing $5+ million to Everett over the next year and a half when the Sox could get Burnitz for $600K for the rest of this year?

I'm not necessarily saying that Burnitz would be better than Everett, all other things being equal. I think the production would be similar. Maybe Everett would be a little better with his familiarity with the Sox and the AL in general. But all other things aren't equal.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 06:47 PM
Yeah Aaron rocks and he should get at least 345,000 next year, ya know cost of living increase.

Honestly for some reason I think he will always be overlooked, he is and has been a favorite of mine since he started playing with the Sox, the guys busts his ass and gives it all, but for some reason he doesnt get any credit, but he should get at least 5,000 more next year:D: Again, no one is talking about taking Rowand out of CF. If we got Everett he would be out DH. Is anyone listening? Burnitz is too much of an "uppercut/swing for the fences every at bat" guy. Carl can get the line drive single or double and hit some homers.

Kadafi311
07-13-2004, 07:09 PM
Aaron Rowand says Hi and would like to remind everyone that he is batting .297 and being paid 340,000 dollars.Appreciate the much needed public service announcement.

You can now return to your regularly scheduled thread discussions which should mostly be in deep pink.

Mohoney
07-13-2004, 11:09 PM
Negligible costthis year, then Next year you add Valentin ($5mil - resigned), Everett ($4mil), Randy ($10mil) and subtract Maggs ($14mil). Net increase - $5mil, basically washing out the savings from Koch. Payroll increase of 10-15mil (and with RJ, revenues should increase by at least that much) give you plenty to pay for assorted raises and a #4 veteran starter and/or veteran C.

I think Randy is at $16 million next year.

HITMEN OF 77
07-14-2004, 02:38 AM
I would love to see CE come back to the Sox. He woudl make a great backup outfielder and DH while Thomas is down. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal goes down for him.

Gumshoe
07-14-2004, 12:08 PM
Again, no one is talking about taking Rowand out of CF. If we got Everett he would be out DH. Is anyone listening? Burnitz is too much of an "uppercut/swing for the fences every at bat" guy. Carl can get the line drive single or double and hit some homers.
In comparing those two guys, CE as a selection is a no brainer. I disagreed with the trade for CE last year, because I know Rowand is a player, and why even create a CF controversy? We saw CE last year in CF, atrocious. Absolutely a liability. I don't want that happening again. As a DH, maybe. But salary? And what if Frank comes back?

Then you start toying with the idea of playing CE in CF. That is the worst situation ever. Just keep the team as is unless you pick up the big unit for prospects.

G

OurBitchinMinny
07-14-2004, 04:07 PM
I would definitely love to get everett back, but its not the most important move. He can DH and play some OF at all 3 positions. The 2 moves I would like to see are a catcher (kendall) and a CF (winn or anybody). I dont think this team can go far with its current catching situation

OurBitchinMinny
07-14-2004, 04:09 PM
Aaron Rowand says Hi and would like to remind everyone that he is batting .297 and being paid 340,000 dollars.
Its his job to lose, but he has definitely proved capable of losing it before. He is NOT the long term answer there. He hits like crap w/ RISP

Basten
07-14-2004, 04:15 PM
Its his job to lose, but he has definitely proved capable of losing it before. He is NOT the long term answer there. He hits like crap w/ RISP
Before this season, Aaron fared quite well w. RISP.

As he plays every day and gets enough at bats under his belt, that RISP production will level off to his career average -- especially if he keeps driving the ball to RF-CF.

No worries.

Jerome
07-14-2004, 04:53 PM
Aaron Rowand says Hi and would like to remind everyone that he is batting .297 and being paid 340,000 dollars.


WOOF WOOF ARFF ARFF!