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View Full Version : ANOTHER Kiss of Death by Boston!


Champs2004
07-12-2004, 06:29 PM
As much as none of us actually gives a damn about what Gammons says, he did mention on SC that the Sox are in the hunt for the Big Unit

RKMeibalane
07-12-2004, 06:38 PM
:KW

"We have traded Magglio Ordonez to the D-Backs in exchange for left-handed pitcher Reggie Johnson."

Tmar281
07-12-2004, 06:43 PM
As much as none of us actually gives a damn about what Gammons says, he did mention on SC that the Sox are in the hunt for the Big Unitthe red sox?

dickallen15
07-12-2004, 06:45 PM
:KW

"We have traded Magglio Ordonez to the D-Backs in exchange for left-handed pitcher Reggie Johnson."
That made me laugh out loud. My wife is looking at me very strangely.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-12-2004, 06:47 PM
lol good stuff right there
yes gammons mentioned the white sox as a possibility to pick up the unit. he said the yankees and red sox don't have the spects it would take to acquire him. however, he also said he doesn't see the diamondbacks trading randy.

rmusacch
07-12-2004, 09:10 PM
lol good stuff right there
yes gammons mentioned the white sox as a possibility to pick up the unit. he said the yankees and red sox don't have the spects it would take to acquire him. however, he also said he doesn't see the diamondbacks trading randy.
I wonder if the Unit would accept a trade to the Sox?

WhiteSoxFan84
07-12-2004, 09:33 PM
He wants a contender and if he went to Houston, why not Chicago?

Basten
07-12-2004, 10:02 PM
He wants a contender and if he went to Houston, why not Chicago?
It can be argued that Chicago is THE best option for him and his ego.

MarqSox
07-12-2004, 11:36 PM
It can be argued that Chicago is THE best option for him and his ego.If for no other reason than he would be revered like a god if he led us to the promised land ... really the only other team that could offer that kind of pure reverence would be the BoSox.

RKMeibalane
07-12-2004, 11:37 PM
If for no other reason than he would be revered like a god if he led us to the promised land ... really the only other team that could offer that kind of pure reverence would be the BoSox.
Agreed.

WSox8404
07-13-2004, 12:48 AM
If we got Randy, we honestly would be considered as World Series threats. Well, maybe with one more bat in there too. And someone in the pen. But seriously, that would be huge. What a rotation.

OEO Magglio
07-13-2004, 12:51 AM
To me it's still a pipedream for me to even imagine getting rj. But if you really think about it, I'd probably say the sox are number 2 as the favorites to get rj behind anaheim.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 12:59 AM
To me it's still a pipedream for me to even imagine getting rj. But if you really think about it, I'd probably say the sox are number 2 as the favorites to get rj behind anaheim. Do you really favor the White Sox to get RJ over the Yankees, who buy everyone??? I think RJ and Kendall are BOTH pipedreams for us. Steinbrenner is not our owner... Reinsdorf is.

Basten
07-13-2004, 01:07 AM
If for no other reason than he would be revered like a god if he led us to the promised land ... really the only other team that could offer that kind of pure reverence would be the BoSox.
Boston still can''t come close to Chicago -- they have been to World Series as well as numerous ALCS fairly recently. Expectations are extremely high there, he will be destroyed in the media if he tanks down the stretch, just annihilated.

And if he wins...Guess what? Pedro, Shilling, Manny will be grabbing for the credit.

No, if he really craves for a true challenge and risks....Chicago is it. If he brings Championship, he'll be a legend here 20 years from now - maybe 50.

Plus it's a much better city than Bawston, come on. :bandance:

doublem23
07-13-2004, 01:36 AM
Do you really favor the White Sox to get RJ over the Yankees, who buy everyone??? I think RJ and Kendall are BOTH pipedreams for us. Steinbrenner is not our owner... Reinsdorf is.
Who can the Yankees offer for Johnson? The only thing they have going for them is pretty much bottomless coffers, but that only goes so far when Colangelo is claiming that he'll only trade RJ for some players ready to play now.

While I think we're more likely to land Johnson than the Yankees, I think it's a bout a 0.5% chance for the Sox compared to a 0.3% chance for New York. Neither team could part with what Arizona wants, IMO.

NonetheLoaiza
07-13-2004, 01:50 AM
RJ will not come to the White Sox. The Dbacks want ML ready players and prospects for RJ, which they will not get from the White Sox. We would have to give up way too much for Johnson.

Basten
07-13-2004, 02:10 AM
RJ will not come to the White Sox. The Dbacks want ML ready players and prospects for RJ, which they will not get from the White Sox. We would have to give up way too much for Johnson.What do you consider too much?

Let's start with Garland, Rauch then add another bat....and a top prospect.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 02:30 AM
What do you consider too much?

Let's start with Garland, Rauch then add another bat....and a top prospect. I would hate giving up Garland. He is pitching well right now and he is still only 24. He can only get better.

But it would probably cost us Garland, Rauch, and Joe Borchard/Brian Anderson/Ryan Sweeney.

WinningUgly!
07-13-2004, 02:38 AM
Rowand, Diaz, Rauch & Anderson for Finley & Johnson?

Aidan
07-13-2004, 03:11 AM
Rowand, Diaz, Rauch & Anderson for Finley & Johnson? In a perfect world, the D-Backs would accept that trade. I think they want better pitchers than Rauch and Diaz though.

nitetrain8601
07-13-2004, 04:09 AM
I watched Sportscenter and when Gammons was talking about this and he didn't talk about the White Sox at all. The poster might be talking about the 5PM show though. BTW, whoever suggested Arizona throw in Finley, well I don't think you're sane.

Aidan
07-13-2004, 04:36 AM
I watched Sportscenter and when Gammons was talking about this and he didn't talk about the White Sox at all. The poster might be talking about the 5PM show though. BTW, whoever suggested Arizona throw in Finley, well I don't think you're sane. LOL! Like Finley is really a "throw-in" with what he's done this season. :tongue:

WhiteSoxFan84
07-13-2004, 05:46 AM
Well I just heard on Sporting News Radio that RJ said he has not been approached by management about a deal but he would waive his no-trade clause if the deal would help the team.

Here's one thing that's for sure folks, if we get RJ, Magglio is a goner considering RJ will make $16 mill next year. I'm not going to think for one minute that we will land the Big Unit, but if we were to acquire him I think the perfect deal would be Magglio Ordonez, Felix Diaz, and either a player to be named or draft picks for Johnson and Steve Finley. Finley would be huge in the Sox lineup as we desperately needed a lefty with some power. I would love to see Maggs in a Sox uniform forever but I would hate to see him go sign with L.A. or the Mets next year and we get nothing in return.

SSN721
07-13-2004, 06:56 AM
What do you consider too much?

Let's start with Garland, Rauch then add another bat....and a top prospect.

I think giving up Garland is too much, you trade him and then we have another hole in the rotation again. You get Johnson and Garland (or maybe Loaiza by the end of the year) will be our #5. That is pretty damn good. I would have no problem giving up Rauch, Diaz, ANderson, etc. Kids on the farm, but I would have a big problem losing Garland.

Basten
07-13-2004, 08:27 AM
I think giving up Garland is too much, you trade him and then we have another hole in the rotation again. You get Johnson and Garland (or maybe Loaiza by the end of the year) will be our #5. That is pretty damn good. I would have no problem giving up Rauch, Diaz, ANderson, etc. Kids on the farm, but I would have a big problem losing Garland.
Garland has been the definition of mediocrity in his 5 years in bigs.

He will be a FA after 2005. There is no love lost between him, Chicago and Sox organization, so if he defies the odds and becomes, well, good.....you know he'll charge the Sox a pretty penny - probably going to the West Coast team anyway.

With Randy Johnson's arrival, Garland would be pushed in the 5th spot this year, and into #4 spot after Loaiza leaves in the off-season. That means he doesn't pitch in ALDS, and only pitches in ALCS/WS if Loaiza doesn't right the ship. He is just not that important a piece to the Sox puzzle as some would have you believe. Sox can win the division without Garland. They cannot win the ALCS or even, dare I say, WS without Randy Johnson IMO.

Hey....If you could get away with Felix Diaz in Garland's place, fine. But, again, D-Back GM's mama didn't raise no fool; he knows that Garland will probably thrive with a change of pitching coach/scenery in the NL Kip Wells-style......Whereas Diaz is a somewhat talented unproven commodity that are dime a dozen as far as D-Backs are concerned.

Anderson would be a must as well, that goes without saying.

Rauch didn't do the Sox any favor by giving up 7 ER in his last AAA outing -- and we know Munoz is totally effed up right now. 6 weeks ago, these two would have netted you serious returns in a trade, but now they're only good as semi-throw-ins. Honel's arm is screwed up as well, ditto for Wing. Brandon MaCarthy is in A-ball. Gio Ganzalez can't be traded this year.

So yeah, I am fine with Anderson, Rauch, Garland and another prospect. That's bare minimum as fas as D-Backs are concerned.

Basten
07-13-2004, 08:41 AM
Here's one thing that's for sure folks, if we get RJ, Magglio is a goner considering RJ will make $16 mill next year. .Once again....

Randy Johnson makes 10 Mill next year, not 16. The rest is deferred.

Right now Magglio is not worth 14-15 non-deferred Mill a year for 4-5 years. Sorry.

If, however, he has a 2nd half of his life and proves that he IS worth 14-15 Mill, then GREAT it probably means Sox did some damage in the playoffs and made some serious money for the Chairman -- with him expressing his gratitude in a form of a higher payroll in 2005, naturally.

Higher payroll in 2005, coupled with a pretty high likelyhood that 2 of Loaiza/Lee/Konerko/Valentin leave or are traded, means you could fit in Maggs AND Unit. Imagine that.

And if Maggs continues to put un-MVP-like numbers this year and once again chokes in the playoffs (see: 2000), then, you know, good riddance.

Incidentally, I also have no problem with trading Randy Johnson before 2005 if Sox get swept out of ALDS this year.

OG4LIFE
07-13-2004, 08:59 AM
Garland has been the definition of mediocrity in his 5 years in bigs.
Im sick of the garland bashing. he started pitching in the bigs when we has 19/20, and people forget that. he has steadily improved every year, considering he is still 4-6 yeas from his prime, and 2 seasons till FA, there is no way we should think of trading him. he will develop (arguably is already) into a good #2,#3 guy, and considering how cheap we have him now (league minimum), considering how much a solid #2 or 3 guy costs (4-6 mil), there is no way we trade him.

NO WAY.

akingamongstmen
07-13-2004, 09:25 AM
If we got Randy, we honestly would be considered as World Series threats. Well, maybe with one more bat in there too. And someone in the pen. But seriously, that would be huge. What a rotation.
This post made me laugh...typical Sox fan talk (of which I'm also guilty). :D:

Tekijawa
07-13-2004, 09:39 AM
No, if he really craves for a true challenge and risks....Chicago is it. If he brings Championship, he'll be a legend here 20 years from now - maybe 50.

Or he could blow up some reccords and set Comiskey on fire, that would accomplish the same thing!

harwar
07-13-2004, 10:00 AM
I've been hearing for a couple of weeks now,from R.J. himself before he shut up and the media in general,that Johnson wants to stay as close as he can to his family.
Thats got to be so cal right?
Anyway,if we gave up so much(and almost crede too) for Garcia i almost dread thinking about what we would give up for Randy Johnson.
That being said,that is the kind of trade that would make me start thinking about going deep into the post season.

Basten
07-13-2004, 10:18 AM
I've been hearing for a couple of weeks now,from R.J. himself before he shut up and the media in general,that Johnson wants to stay as close as he can to his family.
Thats got to be so cal right?
Anyway,if we gave up so much(and almost crede too) for Garcia i almost dread thinking about what we would give up for Randy Johnson.
That being said,that is the kind of trade that would make me start thinking about going deep into the post season.
His family can come here for a couple of months of summer vacation. Then they can do without their daddy for a month or two. He'll spend the off-season, Spring Training (Tuscon!!) as well as the entire summer with them again next year.

**** California.

SSN721
07-13-2004, 10:50 AM
Garland has been the definition of mediocrity in his 5 years in bigs.

He will be a FA after 2005. There is no love lost between him, Chicago and Sox organization, so if he defies the odds and becomes, well, good.....you know he'll charge the Sox a pretty penny - probably going to the West Coast team anyway.

With Randy Johnson's arrival, Garland would be pushed in the 5th spot this year, and into #4 spot after Loaiza leaves in the off-season. That means he doesn't pitch in ALDS, and only pitches in ALCS/WS if Loaiza doesn't right the ship. He is just not that important a piece to the Sox puzzle as some would have you believe. Sox can win the division without Garland. They cannot win the ALCS or even, dare I say, WS without Randy Johnson IMO.

Hey....If you could get away with Felix Diaz in Garland's place, fine. But, again, D-Back GM's mama didn't raise no fool; he knows that Garland will probably thrive with a change of pitching coach/scenery in the NL Kip Wells-style......Whereas Diaz is a somewhat talented unproven commodity that are dime a dozen as far as D-Backs are concerned.

Anderson would be a must as well, that goes without saying.

Rauch didn't do the Sox any favor by giving up 7 ER in his last AAA outing -- and we know Munoz is totally effed up right now. 6 weeks ago, these two would have netted you serious returns in a trade, but now they're only good as semi-throw-ins. Honel's arm is screwed up as well, ditto for Wing. Brandon MaCarthy is in A-ball. Gio Ganzalez can't be traded this year.

So yeah, I am fine with Anderson, Rauch, Garland and another prospect. That's bare minimum as fas as D-Backs are concerned.

The way this year is going I would rather have Garland then Loaiza at this point. I think Garland has improved every year and is not the throw-away player you seem to make him out to be. He is not on all the time, but when he is he is lights out, I think that will only improve over time. he has shown quite a few dominating performances this year and could easily have another 2-3 wins if not for lack of offense. More often then not he has been a very solid starter for us this year and I consider him one of the major pieces in the future of this rotation. Burlymon, Garland and Garcia is a good three to keep. I would like to keep Loaiza if he can show that he can win at least 14-18 games a year. I would just not be in favor of trading a pitcher with two years before FA and is improving and who I feel can easily become a #2-3 pitcher. But that is just my opinion. I just dont think Johnson is worth that.

Flight #24
07-13-2004, 10:59 AM
I'd be reluctant to give up anyone off the ML roster except maybe Cotts or Rowand. Getting RJ means you're going for it THIS YEAR, and giving away a lot in a deal makes it even more important that you don't gut one are to build up another. Phil Rogers had something with Cotts & Anderson. I'd probably do that. Heck, give the DBacks their pick of Anderson/Sweeney, Rauch/Diaz/Cotts/Honel, and add in Rowand. They get an ML ready OF, another high-ceiling OF who's not far away, and a pitcher who's ML ready but not proven. And they free up a ton of cash.

For the Sox, this is an attempt to win NOW and next year, and to seriously build up the revenue base (if an RJ trade doesn't convince fans management's serious, nothing will). With anticipated payroll increases, you can resign Valentin and go with a rotation of RJ-Garcia-Buehrle-Garland-Rauch/Diaz/Cotts and a lineup of Harris/Uribe-Cheap vet OF/Timo-Frank-Lee-Val-Konerko-Borchard-Crede-Cheap vet C. That's not a great lineup, but it should be sufficient to win the division behind that pitchign staff. Then you go get a bat at next year's trade deadline and after '05, you have a TON of cash to go retool with (Johnson's $10, Paulie's $8, Shingo's $2.5). You've also firmly established the Sox as a large market/high revenue/high payroll team.

No trading Maggs, if you trade for RJ, let Maggs walk, take the picks, and go with a pitching-based team next year.