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View Full Version : Crede was on the trading block?


OzzieBall2004
07-12-2004, 05:31 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:

Mickster
07-12-2004, 05:34 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:
Depends on the deal. Was the deal Olivo and Crede? If so, complete B.S.

If it was Crede and not Olivo, it would still suck, but not as bad as giving up 2 starters....

DickAllen72
07-12-2004, 05:35 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:

I wish Seattle would have taken Crede instead of Olivo. Nothing against Joe, but Uribe at third would have been better than Burke/Davis catching five times a week.

Sounds from the article that KW was NOT willing to trade Crede.

Tekijawa
07-12-2004, 05:36 PM
I remember reading that when the trade went through that the only reason it did was that Seattle said it would be willing to take Reed instead of Crede... If we would have given up MO and Crede the trade would have been a disaster... With Reeds recent injurys I think we still miight come out on top of this deal even if MO ends up being as good as he could be.

I'd also like to add that Crede adds A LOT more to this team than you realize with his glove.... I think he's the SOLE reason that Valentin isn't making as many errors anymore. Crede's bat will catch up with him, he's still pretty young, but his glove is worth its weight in GOLD, as I'm sure one day we'll find out!

mantis1212
07-12-2004, 05:37 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:
I heard it was originally Crede + Olivo + 72-hour window to sign Garcia to an extension. But after speaking with Ozzie, KW decided to use Reed instead.

HomeFish
07-12-2004, 05:38 PM
I do not believe that Crede belongs in the Major Leagues, and, with recent improvements by Garland and Willie Harris, he is now my least favorite player on the team. If the White Sox traded him I would declare a week of festivals and celebration for myself.

CHISOXFAN13
07-12-2004, 05:41 PM
I do not believe that Crede belongs in the Major Leagues, and, with recent improvements by Garland and Willie Harris, he is now my least favorite player on the team. If the White Sox traded him I would declare a week of festivals and celebration for myself.

You claim Harris has imrpovbed yet you fail to see the rise in average from Crede. And I'm sure you praise the efforts of Mike Jackson, too.

What a shock.

JB98
07-12-2004, 05:41 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:
I don't think Joe was ever that close to being traded. KW was not going to give up two everyday players to get Garcia, even if they were our #8 and #9 hitters, respectively. I'm pretty sure the Seattle GM was the first one to bring up Crede's name in the trade talks, and who can blame him? After all, look at the gaping hole that exists at 3B in Seattle. That Leone guy looked terrible this weekend, and Spiezio is much better off at 1B. I'm glad Crede is still here. He's one of the top defensive 3B in the AL, and unlike some on board, I still have faith that he will eventually figure it out offensively.

MisterB
07-12-2004, 05:42 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:
Crede wasn't 'on the block'. Seattle wanted him and KW said no until they changed their mind. There's no way KW gives up Crede without getting a ML capable 3B in return right now.

HomeFish
07-12-2004, 05:43 PM
You claim Harris has imrpovbed yet you fail to see the rise in average from Crede.

Crede hit .261 last year and .285 in 2003. Now he is hitting well below the .250 mark. I do not consider that a rise in average.

Willie Harris hit .204 last year. Now he is in the .270's. I call that improvement.

Mickster
07-12-2004, 05:43 PM
I do not believe that Crede belongs in the Major Leagues, and, with recent improvements by Garland and Willie Harris, he is now my least favorite player on the team. If the White Sox traded him I would declare a week of festivals and celebration for myself.
http://www.onefunsite.com/images/homersbrain.jpg

Wow!

pudge
07-12-2004, 05:44 PM
Crede wasn't 'on the block'. Seattle wanted him and KW said no until they changed their mind. There's no way KW gives up Crede without getting a ML capable 3B in return right now.
Like hell he wasn't - it's been widely reported around here in Seattle that the two prospects were eventually swapped out for Crede, because KW just couldn't get himself to part with two ML starters... but it was close.

CHISOXFAN13
07-12-2004, 05:51 PM
Crede hit .261 last year and .285 in 2003. Now he is hitting well below the .250 mark. I do not consider that a rise in average.

Willie Harris hit .204 last year. Now he is in the .270's. I call that improvement.


LOL, 261 last year and .285 in 2003 huh?

Hilarious.

SO a guy can hit .187 one year and then hit .200 and he's improved huh?

Look at the big picture. Crede struggled in the first half last year, too. Last time I checked, 12 homers and 39 RBI from our EIGHT hitter isn't half bad.

FightingBillini
07-12-2004, 05:51 PM
Crede hit .261 last year and .285 in 2003. Now he is hitting well below the .250 mark. I do not consider that a rise in average.

Willie Harris hit .204 last year. Now he is in the .270's. I call that improvement.
Crede has always started out really slow, and then picked it up in the second half. Willie had a few good months, but they have have been flukes. At least temporarily, becuase his average dropped around 40 points.

I still think that Crede and Harris will be playing gold glove caliber defense on that US Cellular infield for years to come.

OzzieBall2004
07-12-2004, 05:53 PM
That guy "otis", on another thread, said that Crede was also put into a package that KW tried to trade for Sheets, but it fell through when Milwaukee got hot.

Is this guy credible or is he just a roto-geek?

MisterB
07-12-2004, 05:55 PM
Like hell he wasn't - it's been widely reported around here in Seattle that the two prospects were eventually swapped out for Crede, because KW just couldn't get himself to part with two ML starters... but it was close.I was just about to say that even KW isn't stupid enough to trade our only 3B and force someone to play out of position while attmpting to make the playoffs, but then again...

:manos
"Need I remind you of my time spent at 3B and CF?"

HomeFish
07-12-2004, 05:56 PM
Crede has always started out really slow, and then picked it up in the second half. Willie had a few good months, but they have have been flukes. At least temporarily, becuase his average dropped around 40 points.


Even with that 40 point drop, Harris is still hitting well ahead of his past numbers. Crede is not hitting ahead of his past numbers and is in fact hitting below them. The facts stand as they are.

Note that I am not arguing that Harris is the better ballplayer -- merely that Harris has improved so far, whereas Crede has not.

JB98
07-12-2004, 05:59 PM
Crede has always started out really slow, and then picked it up in the second half. Willie had a few good months, but they have have been flukes. At least temporarily, becuase his average dropped around 40 points.

I still think that Crede and Harris will be playing gold glove caliber defense on that US Cellular infield for years to come.
I agree with you on Crede. I sort of doubt Harris will be a gold-glover, though. Solid, yes, but not the best in the league.

I think Crede's numbers will be there at the end of the year. He was hitting around .205 at the end of May, and now he's back to the .240s. He think he'll be the type of guy who hits .260 with 20-25 HR. He's been going to rightfield a little more lately, which encourages me. Of course, he will never be liked in Chicago because he does not show enough "fire." It didn't take me long to grow tired of that preposterous argument, which was brought up on yesterday's post-game show.

Flight #24
07-12-2004, 06:01 PM
Even with that 40 point drop, Harris is still hitting well ahead of his past numbers. Crede is not hitting ahead of his past numbers and is in fact hitting below them. The facts stand as they are.

Note that I am not arguing that Harris is the better ballplayer -- merely that Harris has improved so far, whereas Crede has not.
While true, that statement does come in at a point when Crede historically has his worst months behind him and his best months ahead of him...thereby skewing the data.

HomeFish
07-12-2004, 06:05 PM
While true, that statement does come in at a point when Crede historically has his worst months behind him and his best months ahead of him...thereby skewing the data.

If and when Crede starts hitting and stops choking in RBI situations, I will happily retract my hate for him.

StillMissOzzie
07-12-2004, 06:16 PM
I think that both the Seattle story and the Milwaukee story show you that BOTH of those GM's wanted Crede. I for one am glad that KW stuck to his guns and kept Joe. I agree with the idea that his defense has saved Manos a couple of errors as well as great play covering his own neck of the woods.

SMO
:gulp:

habibharu
07-12-2004, 06:33 PM
I do not believe that Crede belongs in the Major Leagues, and, with recent improvements by Garland and Willie Harris, he is now my least favorite player on the team. If the White Sox traded him I would declare a week of festivals and celebration for myself. harris improved? he sucks! he's batting like .270 and has 10 SB's. pathetic!

Aidan
07-12-2004, 06:40 PM
The Mariners did indeed want Crede originally but when KW brought up Reed they said they would take him instead. I agree that Crede will be a .260 - .265 hitter with 20 - 25 homers and 75 - 80 RBIs a year. He will be a gold-glover and that is just as important to this team as his bat. I don't see why anyone would want to get rid of him. He can only get better.

Joe Crede
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=150317
.241 AVG
12 HR
39 RBI

Those are pretty good power numbers for a #7 or #8 hitter with a game-saving glove in the lineup. And we all know that Crede's bat gets hot during the second half of the season. I have a feeling that HomeFish will be changing his tune in a month or so.

SEALgep
07-12-2004, 06:54 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:Just because a GM pursues a player, doesn't mean he's on the block.

SEALgep
07-12-2004, 06:55 PM
harris improved? he sucks! he's batting like .270 and has 10 SB's. pathetic!He should have more SB, but I don't see where you get off saying he sucks. .270 is a respectable average, especially how many people thought he wouldn't bat over .220.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-12-2004, 06:56 PM
Enough with these baffoons crying about losing Jeremy Reed, WHO???? What the hell did he do in spring training? Crap! He was a one year wonder and won't be much more than another Julio Ramirez (ewwww). We have a lot of prospect OF, Brian Anderson (our 1st round draft pick from 2 years ago), Joe Borchard, that Sweeny kid and probably another studd we don't know about yet.

Us Sox fans are a confused bunch. We beg for a good pitcher, we get him, but we are complaining? Come on guys, Garcia is well worth Reed. Now is he worth Olivo? Only time will tell just how good Olivo will turn out to be (let's not forget he's already on the DL). Hitting is not a problem for us folks, we need pitching, pitching, and more pitching. Our farm system can't develop pitchers at all (thank God for Buehrle). We can develop hitting though (Lee, Ordonez, Olivo - considered crap in A's system, Rowand - slowly developing into a good everyday player).

mealfred13
07-12-2004, 07:04 PM
If and when Crede starts hitting and stops choking in RBI situations, I will happily retract my hate for him.IIRC, Crede was hitting around .220 or so before the allstar break last season, and brought his average up to .285 by the end. He's currently hitting .240, so if he does as well as he usually does in the second half, then if that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

Also, he doesn't usually choke in RBI situations. If 39 RBIs doesn't say something, then you're blind. Don't forget, he drove in winning runs on several occaisions this year, and he's usually really clutch. Just because he didn't get an RBI in one game of the Cubs/Sox series, which some people can't seem to drop, doesn't mean he sucks in RBI situations.

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 07:10 PM
Crede wasn't 'on the block'. Seattle wanted him and KW said no until they changed their mind. There's no way KW gives up Crede without getting a ML capable 3B in return right now.

The only trade I would have made centered around BOTH Crede and Olivo would be in a blockbuster to get Beltran and Randa from the Royals.

Crede, Olivo, Ryan Sweeney, and a PTBNL for Beltran and Randa.

This would probably be a better return for Kansas City than what they ended up getting.

RKMeibalane
07-12-2004, 07:12 PM
http://www.onefunsite.com/images/homersbrain.jpg

Wow!
Has this image been tagged?

RKMeibalane
07-12-2004, 07:13 PM
harris improved? he sucks! he's batting like .270 and has 10 SB's. pathetic!
Believe it or not, that is an improvement for Harris. Last season, he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield.

Aidan
07-12-2004, 08:05 PM
The only trade I would have made centered around BOTH Crede and Olivo would be in a blockbuster to get Beltran and Randa from the Royals.

Crede, Olivo, Ryan Sweeney, and a PTBNL for Beltran and Randa.

This would probably be a better return for Kansas City than what they ended up getting. You would want two guys we would only have for this season?

Basten
07-12-2004, 08:10 PM
Today in the Trib there was an article about Jeremy Reed, and in talking about the trade negotiations between Williams and Bavasi, it was mentioned that Reed was included after "Bavasi stopped pushing for third baseman Joe Crede". I don't recall ever hearing that Joe was on the block, but nothing with KW suprises me because he has said time and again that no one in the clubhouse is untouchable. How do you guys feel about Joe almost getting traded? :?:This year has been an eye-opener - in a bad way.

The way 24yo Joe swung the bat in August-September of 2002, you just thought to yourself, "man, when this guy gets 1000 ML atbats under his belt and becomes a bit more patient/selective, he'll be a perennial all-star" .

2 years later? His swing is as long as ever, his batspeed all but disappeared and he tries to pull off every pitch.

Back then I would have said no way to trade Joe. Now - if the right offer comes along, why not?

Jjav829
07-12-2004, 08:12 PM
Just because a GM pursues a player, doesn't mean he's on the block.
Thank you. Just because a guys name comes up in trade talks, that doesn't mean he's "on the block." Bavasi was looking to get a young, ML ready position player. Crede is cheap, a good defensive 3B, and still has the potential to be a very good hitter. It's no surprise that Bavasi asked for him. That doesn't mean KW was actively shopping him. Personally, I'm glad KW kept Crede.

Basten
07-12-2004, 08:36 PM
I'd also like to add that Crede adds A LOT more to this team than you realize with his glove.... I think he's the SOLE reason that Valentin isn't making as many errors anymore!
The stupidest thing I have ever heard, no offense.

The reason Valentin has played Gold Glove caliber defense in the last 2 months is simple: he is not taking his eye off the ball on routine plays anymore and he stopped trying to gun the ball through Konerko's chest when the runner isn't even half way up the baseline.

OurBitchinMinny
07-12-2004, 09:00 PM
From reading stuff, basically seattle wanted crede, but settled for reed. The White Sox wouldnt trade crede. Time will tell whg will be the better player

Mohoney
07-12-2004, 09:04 PM
You would want two guys we would only have for this season?

Yes. This year is our best shot to win it all. If Magglio leaves after '04, we're an 80-85 win team in '05 anyway. By '06, the Tigers and Indians will have leapfrogged us.

However, if we go for broke, consistently draw 30,000+, get the season attendance to 3 million, and collect huge chunks of playoff revenue, we might be able to keep Magglio AND Beltran.

This lineup, if we made this trade, just might be good enough to win the whole thing:

1 Harris/Uribe
2 Beltran
3 Magglio
4 Frank
5 Lee
6 Konerko
7 Valentin
8 Randa
9 Catcher of the Day

Randa and Beltran also play real good defense, as we already know.

You upgrade outfield defense to a point that it far outweighs the minor drop at 3rd, add a decent .280+ AVG and .350+ OBP to the #8 spot in the lineup, and add the complete package in the #2 spot.

Our lineup would then be the cream of the AL. We might have then centered a package around Reed, Cotts, and Morse to add Garcia.

Basten
07-12-2004, 09:49 PM
However, if we go for broke, consistently draw 30,000+, get the season attendance to 3 million, and collect huge chunks of playoff revenue, we might be able to keep Magglio AND Beltran.
http://www.lardlad.com/images/other/thumbnails/other072.gif

Don't forget the Comcast Super-Squishee

jabrch
07-13-2004, 09:23 AM
I wish Seattle would have taken Crede instead of Olivo. Nothing against Joe, but Uribe at third would have been better than Burke/Davis catching five times a week.

Sounds from the article that KW was NOT willing to trade Crede.
Olivo's hitting .270 with a .313 obp. It's not like he was tearing the cover off the ball for us. I'll miss watching him develop, but Freddy Garcia will pay short term and long term dividends for us - while Olivo was struggling to hit consistently.

And when we go up against him (next year) does anyone think he will see a steady diet of low and away breaking stuff to chase?