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View Full Version : Rotation after All Star Break


rmusacch
07-11-2004, 09:53 PM
So what will the rotation be after the All Star break? I thought they would reset it but Hawk mentioned that Garland is going on Thursday, Buehrle on Friday, Garcia on Saturday and undecided for Sunday. Weird.

OEO Magglio
07-11-2004, 09:57 PM
So what will the rotation be after the All Star break? I thought they would reset it but Hawk mentioned that Garland is going on Thursday, Buehrle on Friday, Garcia on Saturday and undecided for Sunday. Weird.Well coop mentioned that this way the big 3(buehrle, freddy, elo) will be lined up to to face minny. Personally I'm more comfortable with JG pitching right now then elo but that's just me.

elrod
07-12-2004, 12:22 AM
Garland's been a lot more effective lately than Loaiza. That could change but I think Loaiza is going to be less dependable as the season wears on and Garland will be more important. Garland's win against Santana in Minnesota was one for the ages. I like the thought of Loaiza as the #4 for now. If he goes up against Zito, who's been the worst pitcher on the A's staff I'll be happy. Mark Buehrle against Mulder again would be nice, considering Buehrle outdueled him last time. Garcia's had one outing against Oakland this year and he dominated them: 7IP 0ER 3H 2BB 7K. Lifetime he's 1-2 with a 4.50 at Oakland.

Blob
07-12-2004, 11:29 AM
Well coop mentioned that this way the big 3(buehrle, freddy, elo) will be lined up to to face minny. Personally I'm more comfortable with JG pitching right now then elo but that's just me.
I don't think you're alone on this one.

Basten
07-12-2004, 11:45 AM
So what will the rotation be after the All Star break? I thought they would reset it but Hawk mentioned that Garland is going on Thursday, Buehrle on Friday, Garcia on Saturday and undecided for Sunday. Weird.
Oh snap, that means I am going to miss Randy Johnson's White Sox debut. :angry:

SoxxoS
07-12-2004, 12:17 PM
Reported on the Score today:

"Loiaza said his velocity his down (I am assuming dead arm) and he plans to regain it after this all-star rest."

I don't know if he knows this, but he is the all-star rep for the Sox, so he might not be getting any rest.

Moreover, this veloity thing is a huge concern, as I think we have VERY good rotation with Loiaza 03, and just a "good" one with him pitching like his recent crap. He may be a 15 day DL canidate after the all-star break.

TaylorStSox
07-12-2004, 12:18 PM
Reported on the Score today:

"Loiaza said his velocity his down (I am assuming dead arm) and he plans to regain it after this all-star rest."

I don't know if he knows this, but he is the all-star rep for the Sox, so he might not be getting any rest.

Moreover, this veloity thing is a huge concern, as I think we have VERY good rotation with Loiaza 03, and just a "good" one with him pitching like his recent crap. He may be a 15 day DL canidate after the all-star break.
He won't pitch more than a couple innings, if that. They set up the rotation to give him 10 days rest.

WSox8404
07-12-2004, 01:33 PM
I would just wish that he would say no to the all-star game. But if he did, there would be no Sox. Maybe he can tell Torre to not play him If he cared enough about the Sox he should do that.

rmusacch
07-12-2004, 01:42 PM
He won't pitch more than a couple innings, if that. They set up the rotation to give him 10 days rest.
He will pitch at most 1 inning since he is not starting.

Randar68
07-12-2004, 02:14 PM
Reported on the Score today:

"Loiaza said his velocity his down (I am assuming dead arm) and he plans to regain it after this all-star rest."LOL! Billy Koch said he expected his velocity to come back at any time. So did Danny Wright.

harwar
07-12-2004, 02:42 PM
He doesn't have the great control he had last year and i noticed that hes' just not getting a lot of the calls that he was last year.
I watch the other teams feeds a lot(mlb x-tra innings) just because i like to do that and you would be surprised how many times i've heard them say that the AL had figured out his cut fastball.

Randar68
07-12-2004, 03:51 PM
He doesn't have the great control he had last year and i noticed that hes' just not getting a lot of the calls that he was last year.
I watch the other teams feeds a lot(mlb x-tra innings) just because i like to do that and you would be surprised how many times i've heard them say that the AL had figured out his cut fastball.
It's not hard to figure out when:

1) It's coming at them 3-4 mph slower than last year
2) He's not throwing it in to the hitters
3) when it's not being called for a strike like it was last year. (not sure I buy #3)

WhiteSoxFan84
07-12-2004, 04:14 PM
I think Hawk said it best when it comes to Loaiza, last year we was going in on hitters and jamming them. This year he is going outside and opposing hitters and lacing base hits into RF. And let's not get too overwhelmed here guys, who didn't see this coming? The league has made changes against him and figured him out. Now he has to make neccessary changes.

Any which way, Loaiza can still be effective 5-6 innings, Schoenweis is the one that scares me the most. As long as we get to the playoffs we can make it happen. Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, and Loaiza. "Show" out of the pen. Problem is, can we get to the playoffs with only 2 consistent pitchers (Buehrle and Garcia)? Garland can be lights out when he wants to be, but he can also be a dud once in a while.

I can't say it enough, we need to pick up another starter but Ortiz is not the answer. I'd love to see Jamie Moyer (yes he is 41 years old but he will be cheap and provides much needed experience) wearing a White Sox uniform. Randy Johnson is not even a possibility, costs too much and his new love for creating drama won't fit well with Ozzie.

Basten
07-12-2004, 04:38 PM
I think Hawk said it best when it comes to Loaiza, last year we was going in on hitters and jamming them. This year he is going outside and opposing hitters and lacing base hits into RF. And let's not get too overwhelmed here guys, who didn't see this coming? The league has made changes against him and figured him out. Now he has to make neccessary changes.

.There is reason why E-Lo is not "going in on hitters and jamming them".

He knows he doesn't have the velocity or movement from 2003, so naturally he is more afraid of the bats. I would be, too.

"Lacing the ball to RF"? The man is getting SMOKED - as in towering HR down the lines smoked.

To put it simply: Esteban doesn't have the velocity, movement or control he had in April-August of 2003.

Not pitching inside as much is the by-product of that.

When he regains his 2003 arm-speed, he'll be very good again. But not a second sooner.

Saracen
07-13-2004, 01:14 AM
When he regains his 2003 arm-speed, he'll be very good again. But not a second sooner. Bah! He's had the arm speed his whole career - and been lit up his whole career. Last year was a fluke, arm speed or not. He's always showed brief periods of brilliance, only to be shellacked again the next time out - I expect it will continue to be that way.

Cubbiesuck13
07-13-2004, 01:30 AM
E-lo will not be as effective in coming years because he is a pitcher who was average at best before he added a pitch that is very stressfull on the elbow. These pitchers tend to wear down incredibly faster than most. That is one of the reason the sox minor league system has tought most of the young guys to throw changeups.

Garland has been more reliable this year than any other. This year he has gotten over the hump and I have all the confidence in the world in him. I think that he has as many if not more reliable starts then anyone else this year. statheads can you help me out on this one?

a Burly, Garcia, Garland staff for the upcoming years will be an awsome one. add e-lo as a 4th and we have 4 guys who the offense knows will give them more than a fighting chance to win on any given night.

Basten
07-13-2004, 01:43 AM
Bah! He's had the arm speed his whole career - and been lit up his whole career. Last year was a fluke, arm speed or not. He's always showed brief periods of brilliance, only to be shellacked again the next time out - I expect it will continue to be that way.
No, last year he generated more velocity than ever before AND he added a devastating cutter. That, combined with his good control, produced a magical season - culminating with his outing in the Yankee stadium last September.

This year, he is throwing more in line with his career velocity-wise; his cutter is not as quick or sharp as it was last year either, and hitters are ready for it.

Finally, he lost confidence/control he had last year -- and without the stuff, it's doubly tough. So he has to nibble to survive, and that nibbling is resulting in hitter's counts more often.

Is he hurt?

SoxxoS
07-13-2004, 08:47 AM
No, last year he generated more velocity than ever before AND he added a devastating cutter. That, combined with his good control, produced a magical season - culminating with his outing in the Yankee stadium last September.

This year, he is throwing more in line with his career velocity-wise; his cutter is not as quick or sharp as it was last year either, and hitters are ready for it.

Finally, he lost confidence/control he had last year -- and without the stuff, it's doubly tough. So he has to nibble to survive, and that nibbling is resulting in hitter's counts more often.

Is he hurt?
He basically said in an interview on the score that his velocity is down, and he expects this All-Star rest will help him. It's fairly obvious he has a dead arm.

Basten
07-13-2004, 10:21 AM
He basically said in an interview on the score that his velocity is down, and he expects this All-Star rest will help him. It's fairly obvious he has a dead arm.I don't care what he says - only what he does.

And how is it "obvious"? Maybe he is HURT. Maybe he was on the 'ROIDS last year and is yet another victim of the velocity drop-off in 2004.

Who knows, really.

MHOUSE
07-13-2004, 05:39 PM
Lo-Lo was awesome last year and we shouldn't forget that. From opening day this year I never expected him to win 20 games again or be as dominant. I expected him to be something like 14-10 with an ERA right at 4.00 give or take.

Schoenweiss is the one who worries me. He hasn't pitched 200 innings since 2001 and you could see he got the dead arm once he got past his IP total from last season. If he doesn't rest up and stretch out then he might get shelled the whole second half. I'd venture to go with Rauch who had a good start his last time out.

If we can overcome our 4th/5th starter problems and make it to the playoffs then we can have Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland as our three guys and then E-Lo if needed to make the rotation work out. Garland has finally quit dicking around and shown up this season. Props to Big Jon.

SoxxoS
07-13-2004, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=Basten]I don't care what he says - only what he does.

And how is it "obvious"? Maybe he is HURT. Maybe he was on the 'ROIDS last year and is yet another victim of the velocity drop-off in 2004. [QUOTE]

We have been through this steriod thing with pitchers...and nobody knows if he did...but just look at him.

valposoxfan
07-13-2004, 07:39 PM
[QUOTE=Basten]I don't care what he says - only what he does.

And how is it "obvious"? Maybe he is HURT. Maybe he was on the 'ROIDS last year and is yet another victim of the velocity drop-off in 2004. [QUOTE]

We have been through this steriod thing with pitchers...and nobody knows if he did...but just look at him.
Colon went through a dead arm period last year and so did Buehrle and they got through it. I am really not all that concerned with Loaiza right now. Obviously it's frustrating because of what he did last year but Coop also mentioned that the velocity dropoff also has something to do with the fact that he has reverted back to the arm angle he used is Toronto that he changed last year and was very effective. Coop said that the arm angle will be worked on and it should bring back some mph's on the fastballs. I do not believe Loaiza is hurt, almost every pitcher goes through a dead arm stage and I have a feeling that that is what we are seeing with Loaiza right now. And P.S. I think Garland may very well be the most dominate pitcher on our staff right now.