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jabrch
07-11-2004, 05:46 PM
That's what we expected of you! WTG - at USCF - to give up 3 in 6.2 IP - awesome. He will get a lot of wins if he keeps throwing like that. Keep your ERA at home at 4 or less - and you will be a star on the South Side for a long time to come!

HomeFish
07-11-2004, 06:13 PM
He did a lot better than I thought he would, but it was still a very shaky start.

Better than what we had in his spot before, though. I'll suspend the Olivo sig for the time being.

soltrain21
07-11-2004, 06:41 PM
He did a lot better than I thought he would, but it was still a very shaky start.

Better than what we had in his spot before, though. I'll suspend the Olivo sig for the time being.

How was that start shaky? I don't agree with that. It was a great start.

lowesox
07-11-2004, 06:48 PM
How was that start shaky? I don't agree with that. It was a great start.
Actually, I think you're both wrong. It was somewhere in between.

soltrain21
07-11-2004, 07:04 PM
Meh, it was alot closer to being a great one then a shakey one, though!


I win, Homefish owes me money! :bandance:

Dadawg_77
07-12-2004, 12:14 AM
Garcia game score was 56, not shaky but not dominate. It was his first quality start with the Sox. The seven K's with one walk is nice, Seatlle averaged 6.2 K's a game coming into today's game.

CWSGuy406
07-12-2004, 12:26 AM
Garcia game score was 56, not shaky but not dominate. It was his first quality start with the Sox. The seven K's with one walk is nice, Seatlle averaged 6.2 K's a game coming into today's game.
Someone said it in another thread - the key with Freddy is a.) not leaving too many pitches up and b.) not walking a lot of people. So far, he's not walking a lot of people, but when he gets hit, it's usually on pitches up in the zone.

But I'll take 6 2/3, 3 runs any day, especially at our park. It wasn't a great outing, but it was a pretty good outing. I love the K's too, they showed a stat up on the scoreboard, IIRC, both Buehrle and Garcia are top ten in the AL in strikeouts.

And DD77. A few questions - what is 'game score', how is it determined, and what would be a 'dominant' game score as opposed to a 'shaky' game score?

Aidan
07-12-2004, 12:32 AM
Garcia has pitched fairly well in his 3 games for the Sox...

1st game @ MIN
6 IP
4 ER
9 SO

2nd game vs. ANA
8 IP
4 ER
6 SO

3rd game vs. SEA
6 2/3 IP
3 ER
7 SO

If our offense picks up with Maggs and hopefully Borchard, we can afford to give up 3 or 4 runs and outscore our opponents. I love watching his delivery and I'm loving the strikeouts. However, whoever said that Freddy will give up the longball was right. In his 15 starts for Seattle this season he only gave up 8 HRs. He has given up 5 HRs in 3 starts for the White Sox so far. :o:

Dadawg_77
07-12-2004, 09:05 AM
And DD77. A few questions - what is 'game score', how is it determined, and what would be a 'dominant' game score as opposed to a 'shaky' game score?
Game Score: Start with 50 points. Add 1 point for each out recorded, (3 points per inning). Add 2 points for each inning completed after the 4th. Add 1 point for each strikeout. Subtract 2 points for each hit allowed. Subtract 4 points for each earned run allowed. Subtract 2 points for each unearned run allowed. Subtract 1 point for each walk

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/bestgames


Game scores in the 70+ range would be dominate start imop.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2004, 09:10 AM
Anybody who pitches in the Cell nowadays is going to give up the long ball. It's just something we need to get used to.

The way to combat this is to NOT WALK ANYBODY, work quickly and play good defense. The Sox did that against Seattle.

Now that Garcia is signed and has been performing well, I am on board with the deal after first nearly blowing my top. I'm not ready to eat crow yet, but will do so happily if the Sox make the playoffs.

BigEdWalsh
07-12-2004, 09:17 AM
Garcia has pitched fairly well in his 3 games for the Sox...

1st game @ MIN
6 IP
4 ER
9 SO

2nd game vs. ANA
8 IP
4 ER
6 SO

3rd game vs. SEA
6 2/3 IP
3 ER
7 SO

If our offense picks up with Maggs and hopefully Borchard, we can afford to give up 3 or 4 runs and outscore our opponents. I love watching his delivery and I'm loving the strikeouts. However, whoever said that Freddy will give up the longball was right. In his 15 starts for Seattle this season he only gave up 8 HRs. He has given up 5 HRs in 3 starts for the White Sox so far. :o:
I think it was a good start. He has yet to pitch great for the Sox but he's 2-1, with some flashes of great. Compared to Schoenweiss's shaky starts and all the 5th starter crapiness, Freddy has been great. He is a great addition.
I love his delivery and the strikeouts too. I went Tuesday and saw the one game that he lost but was very impressed. He looks imposing on the mound. I like his mound presence. :gulp:

Terminated
07-12-2004, 09:41 AM
He needs to stop with the long ball. Thatís on the negative side of Freddy since he joined the White Sox. I also enjoy seeing the strikeouts (reminds me of the 2003 Loaiza) but he needs to stop throwing so many cookies.

jabrch
07-12-2004, 09:54 AM
Averaging 7 IP, 3.66 ER/G with 2 starts at USCF and 1 at the Homerdome? What more do people want from him? That's very effective pitching.

NonetheLoaiza
07-12-2004, 09:59 AM
bottom line...is it better than the starts from the 5th starters spot? um, i think so.

Dadawg_77
07-12-2004, 10:22 AM
Averaging 7 IP, 3.66 ER/G with 2 starts at USCF and 1 at the Homerdome? What more do people want from him? That's very effective pitching.
Run per game is meaningless stat used by someone trying to doctor the numbers for their case. To have any value form a number it needs to standard across the board. This was the reason ERA was invented.

jabrch
07-12-2004, 10:46 AM
bottom line...is it better than the starts from the 5th starters spot? um, i think so.
He steps on the hill - and we have a reasonable chance to win. That's what's important. I am thrilled to death that KW was able to pull this off. Nobody in the AL has a team that is CLEARLY better than us - with the only possible exception of the 200mm Yankees. That's cool to be able to say.

Mickster
07-12-2004, 10:58 AM
He steps on the hill - and we have a reasonable chance to win. That's what's important. I am thrilled to death that KW was able to pull this off. Nobody in the AL has a team that is CLEARLY better than us - with the only possible exception of the 200mm Yankees. That's cool to be able to say.
Tha bats of Boston have been scary as of late.... :o:

Basten
07-12-2004, 11:20 AM
That's what we expected of you! WTG - at USCF - to give up 3 in 6.2 IP - awesome. He will get a lot of wins if he keeps throwing like that. Keep your ERA at home at 4 or less - and you will be a star on the South Side for a long time to come!No, Sox gave up Olivo and Reed (and Morse who Walker sees as a poor man's Garciaparra, which is nuts but given that he is only 22, he might turn out to be a nice ML...or not) for one reason and one reason only: they needed a STAFF ACE.



I do like the fact that he has a 3/23 walk to strike-out ratio in 20 innigs, but that "5 HR given up in 20 innings" s**t has GOT to stop.

Kerry Wood came back and shut a potent line-up like the Cards down cold on the road and temporarily saved the Cubs from falling off a cliff. THAT is what Freddy Garcia was acquired to do - and he failed against the Angels when Sox needed him the most.

delben91
07-12-2004, 11:23 AM
Wood camr back and shut a potent line-up like the Cards down cold on the road and saved the Cubs from falling off a cliff. THAT is what Freddy Garcia was acquired to do - and he failed against the Angels when Sox needed him the most.

Perhaps, but that probably won't be the defining game in the Sox season. There will probably be another time when the Sox "need Garcia the most" and what's to say he doesn't come up with a shut down effort then? He's got the stuff and the mentality, I don't think it's that out of the question.

Basten
07-12-2004, 11:32 AM
He steps on the hill - and we have a reasonable chance to win. That's what's important. I am thrilled to death that KW was able to pull this off. Nobody in the AL has a team that is CLEARLY better than us - with the only possible exception of the 200mm Yankees. That's cool to be able to say.
Boston is clearly better than us.

Nomar and Trot Nixon have just returned and have yet to get in a groove. Manny and Ortiz are as "money" as 3-4 hitters come (not counting Bonds of course). Damon and Bellhorn have huge OBP's.

Pedro-Shilling as 1-2? When was the last time Sox did ANYTHING against a very tough RHP - esp. in postseason?

I still think Foulke is a good closer.

Basten
07-12-2004, 11:35 AM
Perhaps, but that probably won't be the defining game in the Sox season. There will probably be another time when the Sox "need Garcia the most" and what's to day he doesn't come up with a shut down effort then? He's got the stuff and the mentality, I don't think it's that out of the question.
What I am saying is he better get his act together and DO IT. The 3 ER/6 inn or 4 ER/7 inn is not what he was brought in here to do. Russ Ortiz could do that. Esteban Loaiza could do that. Garland could do that.

Ben Sheets of the ALC is what I want him to be. :bandance:

WSox8404
07-12-2004, 12:18 PM
Anybody who pitches in the Cell nowadays is going to give up the long ball. It's just something we need to get used to.

The way to combat this is to NOT WALK ANYBODY, work quickly and play good defense. The Sox did that against Seattle.

Now that Garcia is signed and has been performing well, I am on board with the deal after first nearly blowing my top. I'm not ready to eat crow yet, but will do so happily if the Sox make the playoffs.
That is the key. Don't walk anyone. It keeps solo shots at solo shots and not two and three run dingers. Freddy seems to have pretty good control so I am happy with him.

jabrch
07-12-2004, 08:29 PM
Boston is clearly better than us.

Nomar and Trot Nixon have just returned and have yet to get in a groove. Manny and Ortiz are as "money" as 3-4 hitters come (not counting Bonds of course). Damon and Bellhorn have huge OBP's.

Pedro-Shilling as 1-2? When was the last time Sox did ANYTHING against a very tough RHP - esp. in postseason?

I still think Foulke is a good closer.
Our lineup is no worse than theirs. And After 1-2, we are better than them the rest of the way. I don't fear the RedSox as much as the Yanks. They are good- but not clearly better than us.

jabrch
07-12-2004, 08:32 PM
No, Sox gave up Olivo and Reed (and Morse who Walker sees as a poor man's Garciaparra, which is nuts but given that he is only 22, he might turn out to be a nice ML...or not) for one reason and one reason only: they needed a STAFF ACE.



I do like the fact that he has a 3/23 walk to strike-out ratio in 20 innigs, but that "5 HR given up in 20 innings" s**t has GOT to stop.


Morse was about ready to be moved out of SS cuz of his lack of ability to play that position - he is not a poor man's Nomar any more than Harris is a poor man's Pierre.

As far as the HRs go - I agree - not good. But if he averages 3 runs per 7 innings @ USCF and the HomerDome, I won't be upset about it. That's decent numbers and numbers that will win us a lot of games.

Dadawg_77
07-12-2004, 09:46 PM
Our lineup is no worse than theirs. And After 1-2, we are better than them the rest of the way. I don't fear the RedSox as much as the Yanks. They are good- but not clearly better than us.
Really, as good as Mags is I would take Manny over him anyday of the week. Take Nixon over our platton in CF which you said. Nixon and Lee are about equal. Nomar over Jose, Millar over Crede, Uribe and Reese about equal, Ortiz and Konerko are equal, Vartiek over our catchers, and their front two over our front three but I like our back three over their back two. I would take Boston's bullpen over the Sox.

gobears1987
07-13-2004, 12:19 AM
No matter who we get, the longball will be a problem at USCF. Garcia is not just doing better than a 5th starter, but better than Loaiza or Schoe. Only Garland and Buehrle have done better since he arrived.

I was supporting this deal from the start, even though I somewhat miss Olivo. Garcia will be a great asset for many years

OEO Magglio
07-13-2004, 12:28 AM
Morse was about ready to be moved out of SS cuz of his lack of ability to play that position - he is not a poor man's Nomar any more than Harris is a poor man's Pierre.

As far as the HRs go - I agree - not good. But if he averages 3 runs per 7 innings @ USCF and the HomerDome, I won't be upset about it. That's decent numbers and numbers that will win us a lot of games.Neither Boston or the yanks would scare me in a playoff series. The yanks have no starting pitching outside of Vazquez, with an injured brown and an average Mussina. Boston has schilling but pedro has not been pedro this year, and then wakefield and lowe are nothing special. The team that would scare me more then anyone in a playoff series would be oakland, not only their starting pitching but just playing in oakland but the sox have to make the playoffs first to even be worrying about this. Freddy will be fine he's basically made one mistake a game that's killed him but I think that will change and Freddy will be great for the sox.

jabrch
07-13-2004, 08:15 AM
I agree OEO. I agree.

Freddy was a great move. He has pitched good enough to be 3-0 with his starts all in tough parks. I'm happy so far. I expect more - but I am content, so far, with what I have seen. It will get better.

Nice job KW! Way to go!

Good Luck Freddy

Neither Boston or the yanks would scare me in a playoff series. The yanks have no starting pitching outside of Vazquez, with an injured brown and an average Mussina. Boston has schilling but pedro has not been pedro this year, and then wakefield and lowe are nothing special. The team that would scare me more then anyone in a playoff series would be oakland, not only their starting pitching but just playing in oakland but the sox have to make the playoffs first to even be worrying about this. Freddy will be fine he's basically made one mistake a game that's killed him but I think that will change and Freddy will be great for the sox.

Basten
07-13-2004, 03:38 PM
Morse was about ready to be moved out of SS cuz of his lack of ability to play that position - he is not a poor man's Nomar any more than Harris is a poor man's Pierre.

As far as the HRs go - I agree - not good. But if he averages 3 runs per 7 innings @ USCF and the HomerDome, I won't be upset about it. That's decent numbers and numbers that will win us a lot of games.
Actually he got lucky he didn't give up 6 - Lee took away one from Ibanez. :smile: