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32nd&Wallace
07-11-2004, 05:53 PM
I have been really warmed by the big crowds in recent months. Last night against Seattle it was a sellout. even though it was a fireworks night, you werent seeing this stuff in the last three years. Even nonhalfprice nights, like on Wed. or Thu, the crowds are respectable.....My theory is that time heals wounds and people are starting to let go of their grudges concerning White Flag and the Strike and coming back to support the Sox!! Anyone else on the larger crowds

nitetrain8601
07-11-2004, 05:59 PM
I saw it last night too. It was a great thing to see. The revolution is coming. People are starting to show up again. First we get the fans, then on to the World Series!!!.


:) :supernana: :dtroll:

OzzieBall
07-11-2004, 06:01 PM
Last night was awesome. The stands were packed, and the new music/video production that the team takes the field to gets the whole stadium pretty well juiced up. I was ready to take the field.

Plus, and Wilsy commented about this yesterday, the Shingo entrance is pretty awesome, and the gong is something else. I had a ball yesterday and wish I could have gone today.

Winning team+good marketing=Big crowds at the Cell.

LongLiveFisk
07-11-2004, 06:10 PM
Winning team+good marketing=Big crowds at the Cell.
And of course, nice summer weather makes a huge difference. I have come to expect big summer crowds when the team is doing well.

But the media just doesn't seem to get this fact, as evidenced by their usual rants with each April crowd that doesn't exceed 20k on a wet, miserably cold night.

bigdommer
07-11-2004, 06:12 PM
I was out all night last night and I got home and looked on the internet to if the Sox had won. The first line was the Sox win in front of a sell out crowd. I think I was more pumped about the sellout crowd than the win.

Even the game today had a decent crowd (above 30K), but what I like best is the enthusiasm of the crowed. On TV, Sunday's game sounded like a sellout. And it got real loud for Carlos's catch, the three bombs, the double plays, and of course, for "Shingotime"!

First place at the break can only bring more fans.

jabrch
07-11-2004, 06:36 PM
Last night was our first sellout this seaons exclusing opening day and the three vs the Cubs. That's fantastic. I am glad to see more people coming out to support this team. 30+ every night would be awesome. We will easily clear 2mm this year and have a reasonable shot at exceeding 2.25mm fans. JR asked for it - we asked him to put a winner on the field - he did - we did. Lets keep it up. JR may add more room for KW for this year - or even for next year. And maybe next year we can draw 2.75 - 3mm.

That would rock!

jabrch
07-11-2004, 06:37 PM
And I welcome the long time fans returning - and even some of the bandwaggon jumpers who might be thinking this team is for real.


Come on down - there is room for everyone.

bafiarocks03
07-11-2004, 06:52 PM
I don't like it.....i think im the only one tho.....thats ok!! lol:bandance:

TornLabrum
07-11-2004, 07:29 PM
And when did the crowds show up? After Memorial Day with the Sox in contention. Just as was predicted in WSI's "Fallen Arches" column. Too bad the "experts" who populate the local media haven't picked up that this is the usual pattern.

jackbrohamer
07-11-2004, 08:20 PM
And when did the crowds show up? After Memorial Day with the Sox in contention. Just as was predicted in WSI's "Fallen Arches" column. Too bad the "experts" who populate the local media haven't picked up that this is the usual pattern.

You got that right, it's been that way as long as I remember. But I was surprised by the sellout yesterday, they usually draw well on Saturday nights in summer but I cannot remember the last time they had a sellout. Even during the 2000 season when they were in 1st place all summer I don't recall a single Saturday night sellout.

Maybe they're turning some kind of corner in terms of attendance?

Lip Man 1
07-11-2004, 08:32 PM
The Sox went over the million mark with the sell out yesterday. That's the earliest since the 1994 season, if they stay in the race and Williams picks up another player or two, they could draw 2.3 million.

Lip

GoSox2K3
07-11-2004, 08:52 PM
The big crowds are great! I'm sure the media and Cub fans will continue to say that US Cellular Field is always empty and that nobody likes the Sox. They have selective amnesia about crowds like we had this weekend.

The Sox also drew about 35k for a game against the Braves last month. So, this isn't the only time outside the Cubs series that the Sox drew well. They just need to have better luck with the weather. Is it me or do we always seem to go thru a stormy pattern when the Sox are home?

TornLabrum
07-11-2004, 09:52 PM
You got that right, it's been that way as long as I remember. But I was surprised by the sellout yesterday, they usually draw well on Saturday nights in summer but I cannot remember the last time they had a sellout. Even during the 2000 season when they were in 1st place all summer I don't recall a single Saturday night sellout.

Maybe they're turning some kind of corner in terms of attendance?
One thing to remember. Since the last 8 rows of the upper deck have been removed, it takes a lot fewer people to make a sellout. Remember, the park was had a larger capacity after the earlier renovations than it did when it opened.

Brian26
07-11-2004, 10:19 PM
And when did the crowds show up? After Memorial Day with the Sox in contention. Just as was predicted in WSI's "Fallen Arches" column. Too bad the "experts" who populate the local media haven't picked up that this is the usual pattern.
But where were the crowds in '96, '97, 2000, 2003 just after Memorial Day when the Sox were in contention? I think we're seeing something special here.

The Sox fans are coming back in a BIG way.

Today's crowd was great, as was last night's sellout. But, I'm MOST impressed with getting 27,000 on Thursday afternoon. That's frickin' amazing.

joeynach
07-11-2004, 10:34 PM
I have been really warmed by the big crowds in recent months. Last night against Seattle it was a sellout. even though it was a fireworks night, you werent seeing this stuff in the last three years. Even nonhalfprice nights, like on Wed. or Thu, the crowds are respectable.....My theory is that time heals wounds and people are starting to let go of their grudges concerning White Flag and the Strike and coming back to support the Sox!! Anyone else on the larger crowds I guess its true what everyone said to me after the girl i thought i was going to marry broke up with me, TIME DOES HEEL ALL WOUNDS!!

justfair
07-11-2004, 10:39 PM
We may have the Cubs to thank, at least in part. This season may be different because there is more baseball enthusiasm around Chicago. Part of that enthusiasm is due to the Cubs success of last year. To get big attendance we need the casual fans to come out.

Soxzilla
07-11-2004, 10:48 PM
I was quite impressed we got 27,000 on tuesday night during that horrible rain, and the fact that a gigantic chunk of those people stayed for the game.

I was also at the sellout on saturday, it's great to see people coming out to the park. Especially in the past few years when we'd have our season tickets and only have 15,000 around for indians games:(.

Basten
07-11-2004, 10:55 PM
The Sox went over the million mark with the sell out yesterday. That's the earliest since the 1994 season, if they stay in the race and Williams picks up another player or two, they could draw 2.3 million.

Lip
That player wouldn't over 6'9, would he?

Cuz if he is, 2.3 is peanuts.

TornLabrum
07-11-2004, 11:47 PM
But where were the crowds in '96, '97, 2000, 2003 just after Memorial Day when the Sox were in contention? I think we're seeing something special here.
Remember something called the 1993-94 baseball strike, you know, the one in which the owner of the White Sox was perceived as the leader of the Hawk faction of the owners? Of course Uncle Jer concluded that the reason no one was coming out was because the players weren't likable. Go figure.

Most people thought the Sox would fold after the All-Star break in 2000. If you recall, Ron Scheuler kept telling us after the White Flag trade that 2001 would be the year. He missed by a year. Still attendance was over close to 50% higher than in 1999 (actual figures: 1999 - 1,338,851; 2000 - 1,947,799). Most of that increase came between (guess what!) Memorial Day and Labor Day.

Remember how the media types were criticizing the size of the fan reception the team received when they flew in from Minneapolis after clinching against the Twins? I do because I drove home from that game and got in at 1:30 a.m. and woke up for work at 4:30 a.m. and heard about it on the way home from work.

Last year's attendance was already up by about a quarter of a million over 2002. They'll have to go some this year to get the same percentage increase that they did between 1999 and 2000. Right now, they are close to that percentage, at least the last I saw.

voodoochile
07-11-2004, 11:53 PM
You got that right, it's been that way as long as I remember. But I was surprised by the sellout yesterday, they usually draw well on Saturday nights in summer but I cannot remember the last time they had a sellout. Even during the 2000 season when they were in 1st place all summer I don't recall a single Saturday night sellout.

Maybe they're turning some kind of corner in terms of attendance?
Two things have changed:

1)The games mean more now. By the end of June 2000, the Sox were up 10 games or something and the race was effectively over. This year they are in a dogfight for the division. Like it or not, people want to watch games that mean something.

2) The flubbies hype machine is starting to go over the top and people are getting tired of it. Real Chicagoans must be getting a bit tired of the crap at Wrigley. In addition, Parents probably don't really want to take their kids to Wrigley all that often. Parking is terrible and horribly expensive and it's one giant frat party up and down the street. Besides, with the flubbies basically sold out, where else is the casual fan going to go to watch live baseball? Wrigley's a pickup bar. You going to take a second date there?

gobears1987
07-12-2004, 12:05 AM
This means that we can have more money and hopefully resign Maggs. O-E-O MAGGLIO!

WSox8404
07-12-2004, 12:59 AM
You got that right, it's been that way as long as I remember. But I was surprised by the sellout yesterday, they usually draw well on Saturday nights in summer but I cannot remember the last time they had a sellout. Even during the 2000 season when they were in 1st place all summer I don't recall a single Saturday night sellout.

Maybe they're turning some kind of corner in terms of attendance?
Not to dampen your parade, :D: , but in 2000 the capacity was in excess of 46000. Saturday wouldn't have been a sellout if there were 6000 more seats in the park. But I do love seeing the bigger crowds come out. Keep on coming people. The more you come out, the more papa Jerry will dish out.

SSN721
07-12-2004, 07:33 AM
The crowds have just been amazing to see this year. I was at the Tue Angels game and was amazed at all the people that stayed to watch after a two hour rain delay. That happened last year a couple times and practically everyone left. Just great to see it. I think as long as we dont severely collapse this team will easily draw over two mil.

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 08:36 AM
We may have the Cubs to thank, at least in part. This season may be different because there is more baseball enthusiasm around Chicago. Part of that enthusiasm is due to the Cubs success of last year. To get big attendance we need the casual fans to come out.
Now why did you have to spoil a perfectly good thread by bringing up the Cubs? I'm sorry, but that's the type of logic I expect Cub fans and the media to use to dismiss the Sox attenendance surge: People are only going to Sox games because they are excited about the Cubs success.

However, I agree there may be some connection. I think a more accurate connection to the Cubs is that Cub games are becoming such a drunken circus with the need to go through a broker to get tickets. That more people are turning away from that hype and realizing that they can get a great baseball experience on the South Side of town.

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 08:56 AM
... Still attendance was over close to 50% higher than in 1999 (actual figures: 1999 - 1,338,851; 2000 - 1,947,799). Most of that increase came between (guess what!) Memorial Day and Labor Day.

Last year's attendance was already up by about a quarter of a million over 2002. They'll have to go some this year to get the same percentage increase that they did between 1999 and 2000. Right now, they are close to that percentage, at least the last I saw.
You're absolutely right! In 2000, the Sox were coming off of such a low point in attendance and had fewer season ticket and advanced ticket sales, that there was no way they were going to suddenly average 30,000 per game overnight. The media happily chose to ignore this fact and made so-called lack of attendance their main focus of Sox coverage during that 95-win season. No one mentioned the fact that Sox attendance was up 50% that year.

Sox fans knew that it would take a few years for attendance to build and really bounce back, but no one else was listening because all Cub fans and the Cub-loving media want to do is portray the Sox in as bad a light as possible - and they continued to convince the general public that only a few thousand people go to Sox games.

I think the disappointing 2001 and 2002 seasons delayed this resurgance in attendance, but now we're starting to see the benefits of the Sox being contention into Sept. last year and being in contention again this year. I was really happy to see something like 28,000 in attendance on the Thursday afternoon game against the Angels!

It's possible that the ballpark renovations are starting to show up in the attendance figures too. People are excited to see the changes such as the fan deck. Plus, it's easier to decide to go to a game on a potentially rainy day when you know that the upper deck seats have a roof over them. And the media - much to my surprise - has been very positive of the renovations which has slowed the nonstop negative comments they once hurled about Comiskey Park.

34 Inch Stick
07-12-2004, 09:24 AM
The Sox went over the million mark with the sell out yesterday. That's the earliest since the 1994 season, if they stay in the race and Williams picks up another player or two, they could draw 2.3 million.

LipMine is another post to spoil the giddiness. While Lip is correct, we are the second to last team in the AL to get to that million point this year. Only the Bluejays and Twins reached it less quickly.

I was relying on yesterday's Sun Times. They ran a correction today and I stand corrected as well.

A.T. Money
07-12-2004, 09:35 AM
Tampa Bay passed 1 million before us?

bobj4400
07-12-2004, 09:43 AM
Tampa Bay passed 1 million before us?Detroit, Cleveland, Tampa, KC, and Toronto have yet to reach 1 million in the AL...

harwar
07-12-2004, 09:55 AM
Remember something called the 1993-94 baseball strike, you know, the one in which the owner of the White Sox was perceived as the leader of the Hawk faction of the owners? What is this?
My therapist assured me that the baseball strike never happened.
They let me out of the rubber room just in time for the white flag trade and then .. whoops ..:nuts: right back in again.
But seriously, attendance is way up across the board and no one really seems to have the answer.

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 09:58 AM
Mine is another post to spoil the giddiness. While Lip is correct, we are the second to last team in the AL to get to that million point this year. Only the Bluejays and Twins reached it less quickly.
Where are you getting your figures? Did some Cub fan tell you that? :?: The website I'm looking at (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/attendance.html) shows the Sox ahead of the Min, Tor, KC, Cle, Det, and TB. That makes the Sox 8th (out of 14) in the AL in attendance so far this year. I wish the Sox were higher on that list, but they are not 12th as you suggest.

But 8th isn't as bad as it first appears when you consider this: The 7 AL teams ahead of the Sox are mostly teams that draw huge numbers (Bos, Bal, NY, Sea, Ana). So, being behind them isn't really bad. The 2 teams immediately ahead of the Sox in attendance are Oakland (avg. 27k) and Texas (avg. 30k). Texas is in 1st place and Oakland is 2 games out. Both have better records than the Sox. Plus, Texas has drawn well since moving into their new ballpark and Oakland has had a great team for several years in a row. Finally, Texas and Oakland have the benefit of much better weather so far this year compared to the really crappy weather the Sox have had on many home dates.

P.S. That website for some reason counts 2 Sox rainouts (with attendance of zero for each game) towards their attendance average - which drops the Sox average to 23k per game. The Sun-Times website does not include the rainouts and has the Sox averaging 24k per game.

Dan H
07-12-2004, 10:26 AM
I was at the Saturday night game, and it wasn't just the size of the crowd that impressed me. The fans were loud and into the game. It was a great time.

Credibility, in my view, has been a big problem for the Sox in recent years, and I firmly believe that was one reason for the lower attendance. But when you get a Garcia, it shows a committment to winning. Means a lot.

infohawk
07-12-2004, 11:28 AM
I think we also need to give Kenny some props. Ever since he became GM, he has pulled the trigger on some big trades. Some have worked and some haven't. What his willingness to make these trades is doing, however, is communicating to the fans that he wants to win. If the White Flag trade represented the low point on the south side, Kenny's wheeling-and-dealing is essentially demonstrating an anti-white flag mentality. Beginning with the David Wells trade, Kenny has demonstrated that he will do whatever he believes will put his team over the top. He has been doing this for over three years now, and the fanbase is finally realizing that this guy wants to win a World Series.

jackbrohamer
07-12-2004, 11:40 AM
Not to dampen your parade, :D: , but in 2000 the capacity was in excess of 46000.
You're right, I keep forgetting about that. But I still don't recall any 35,000+ crowds in 2000 aside from Opener/Cubs/playoff games, though my memory is very obviously faulty.

voodoochile
07-12-2004, 11:56 AM
You're right, I keep forgetting about that. But I still don't recall any 35,000+ crowds in 2000 aside from Opener/Cubs/playoff games, though my memory is very obviously faulty.
First game back from the sweep roadtrip against NY and CLE. Monday night half price night. Colon on the mound. That's when the standing O's to greet the Sox started. It was a sellout. It was electric...

Tekijawa
07-12-2004, 12:23 PM
I heard it was because the neighborhood is safer now then in April and the upperdeck has decreaced the slope since then too. It's also a lot easier to get to the games then in april, especially with the red line taking up a whole lane, and Reinsdorf doesn't own as much of the team as he used to in april. Moronotti was right about EVERYTHING!!!

JohnBasedowYoda
07-12-2004, 12:29 PM
i love shingo's new video.... GODZILLA:dtroll: plus the gong is just awesome

Tekijawa
07-12-2004, 12:33 PM
Detroit, Cleveland, Tampa, KC, and Toronto have yet to reach 1 million in the AL...
That's because the Cubs don't have a field in Detroit, Cleveland, Tampa, KC, and Toronto... It's all because of them that people are heading to the south side after all!

Wealz
07-12-2004, 12:52 PM
One of the biggest reasons for the attendance increase I think is the "new" UD reserve seats. In previous years, those seats were among the worst bargains in sports. This year I'd argue they are among the best. $12 during the week and the view is terrific.

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 01:07 PM
One of the biggest reasons for the attendance increase I think is the "new" UD reserve seats. In previous years, those seats were among the worst bargains in sports. This year I'd argue they are among the best. $12 during the week and the view is terrific.
What has changed about the remaining UD seats? The only physical difference is the roof that now covers most of those seats. What was the change in price structure that you are suggesting?

WSox8404
07-12-2004, 01:12 PM
You're right, I keep forgetting about that. But I still don't recall any 35,000+ crowds in 2000 aside from Opener/Cubs/playoff games, though my memory is very obviously faulty.
Who will reach 400 posts first?????

Soxzilla
07-12-2004, 01:15 PM
First game back from the sweep roadtrip against NY and CLE. Monday night half price night. Colon on the mound. That's when the standing O's to greet the Sox started. It was a sellout. It was electric...
Yup, he is right because I was there.

WSox8404
07-12-2004, 01:20 PM
Who will reach 400 posts first?????
I win.

mantis1212
07-12-2004, 01:26 PM
First game back from the sweep roadtrip against NY and CLE. Monday night half price night. Colon on the mound. That's when the standing O's to greet the Sox started. It was a sellout. It was electric...
Right, except the part about Colon on the mound in 2000. Unless you mean it was for the Indians...?

Lip Man 1
07-12-2004, 01:28 PM
Attendence notes from out of Monday's Sun Times:

"The Sox' home attendance ranks eighth in the league, not 11th as reported Sunday. The team's road attendance ranks 11th in the league.

The Sox surpassed the 1 million mark at home Saturday with the fifth sellout of the season. The team has seen a 17 percent first-half increase from last season, with only Tampa Bay (30.4 percent), Detroit (26.7 percent) and Texas (22.3 percent) higher.

The Sox drew 1,939,594 last season and will try to break the 2 million mark for the first time since 1993. "

also Brian I don't think you could say the Sox were in 'contention' in 1997 and look at the Sox record during the first half of 2003 and you can see why the fans were not there. That club sleepwalked thanks to Manager Gandhi for the first two and a half months of the campaign.

Lip

WSox8404
07-12-2004, 01:28 PM
Right, except the part about Colon on the mound in 2000. Unless you mean it was for the Indians...?
Haha. Maybe he wasn't there.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2004, 02:02 PM
Attendence notes from out of Monday's Sun Times:

"The Sox' home attendance ranks eighth in the league, not 11th as reported Sunday. The team's road attendance ranks 11th in the league.

The Sox surpassed the 1 million mark at home Saturday with the fifth sellout of the season. The team has seen a 17 percent first-half increase from last season, with only Tampa Bay (30.4 percent), Detroit (26.7 percent) and Texas (22.3 percent) higher.

Consider that Tampa Bay, Detroit and Texas had nowhere to go but up (record and attendance-wise) after some downright awful seasons, and Detroit added a big-name in Ivan Rodriguez.

All told, the media ought to eat crow right now for their acceptance and perpetuation of the media-created myth that the Sox are nothing but a bad team of bad sports playing in a bad neighborhood, plagued by crime epidemic in crappy stadium that defines the laws of physics by being both empty and filled with ravenously canniballistic fans at the same time.

TommyJohn
07-12-2004, 02:20 PM
I have been really warmed by the big crowds in recent months. Last night against Seattle it was a sellout. even though it was a fireworks night, you werent seeing this stuff in the last three years. Even nonhalfprice nights, like on Wed. or Thu, the crowds are respectable.....My theory is that time heals wounds and people are starting to let go of their grudges concerning White Flag and the Strike and coming back to support the Sox!! Anyone else on the larger crowds:moron

No!! No!! What is wrong with you PATHETIC PEOPLE?? Haven't you been
listening to my show or reading my column??? How many times have I
called that place "ill-conceived, poorly designed stadium in a less-than
desirable neighborhood"? How many times have I told you how awful that
neighborhood is?? Why do you think I play up every little incident that
happens at that HELLHOLE??? Do you think I'm doing it for my health??
NO!!!!! I'm doing it to keep all of you Neanderthals from going out there,
thus ruining Satan Reinsdorf and driving your pathetic team out of my
Cubbies' town!!! I can't believe it's not working!! Well, you just wait!!!
This is only the beginning!!! I'm going to drive this team from Chicago
if it takes me my entire life!!! You have no idea who you're messing with!!!
You stupid fans will learn not to defy me!!!! This is WAR!!! Hellhole!!
Hellhole!! Hellhole!!! Big Skirt!! Big Skirt!!! Big Skirt!! Bartman!!! Bartman!!!
BARTMAN!!!



POOF! THWOCK!!! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Thump.

The attendants have straitjacketed Mr. Screamalotti and are taking him
back to his cell. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Wealz
07-12-2004, 02:33 PM
What has changed about the remaining UD seats? The only physical difference is the roof that now covers most of those seats. What was the change in price structure that you are suggesting?
Most of the current UD reserve seats were considered boxes last year and were priced at $20

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 02:55 PM
All told, the media ought to eat crow right now for their acceptance and perpetuation of the media-created myth that the Sox are nothing but a bad team of bad sports playing in a bad neighborhood, plagued by crime epidemic in crappy stadium that defines the laws of physics by being both empty and filled with ravenously canniballistic fans at the same time.
Yeah, according to the media and Cub fans, US Cellular Field is always empty - but if you go there, the only seat you will get is in the last row of the upper deck.

Even at 2003 attendance levels, the Sox accounted for about 40% of the MLB attendance in Chicago. Not bad considering the team in town drawing the other 60% benefits from a perpetual mind-numbing hype-machine, a tourist attraction ballpark, and a ton of customers with alot of disposable income who live w/in walking distance of their park.

I bet if you asked the average Chicagoan to guess what percentage of baseball attendance the Sox get in Chicago, the typical response would be 10% or less. Why wouldn't people think that? It's been drummed into our heads by the that perpetual mind-numbing hype for years.

Unfortunately, no matter how well the Sox draw this year, the media will stick with their myth. They always have an excuse to dismiss good Sox attendance: it's because of half-price night, it's because of fireworks night, it's because of kids day, it's because of some giveaway day, blah, blah, blah. It's constantly qualified that way in the press. Even if the Sox manage to average 35k for the rest of the season (which they probably won't), you know that the media will focus their attention on the 5,000 "empty blue seats" and not the 35k occupied ones.

TommyJohn
07-12-2004, 03:24 PM
They always have an excuse to dismiss good Sox attendance: it's because of half-price night, it's because of fireworks night, it's because of kids day, it's because of some giveaway day, blah, blah, blah. It's constantly qualified that way in the press.
The best I've ever seen was offered by Ron Rapaport, among others. In years
when the White Sox outdrew the Cubs it was because "Comiskey Park had more
seats than Wrigley Field." He even states as much in his WSI interview:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=11&id=348

"In the '70's there were many times the Sox outdrew the Cubs, in part because
the ballpark held more fans than Wrigley Field." (Oh no, it couldn't be because
the White Sox played better ball those years, now could it?)

MarkM2112
07-12-2004, 03:41 PM
Just out of curiosity, what IS the new capacity of USCF?

Basten
07-12-2004, 03:58 PM
Yeah, according to the media and Cub fans, US Cellular Field is always empty - but if you go there, the only seat you will get is in the last row of the upper deck.

Even at 2003 attendance levels, the Sox accounted for about 40% of the MLB attendance in Chicago. Not bad considering the team in town drawing the other 60% benefits from a perpetual mind-numbing hype-machine, a tourist attraction ballpark, and a ton of customers with alot of disposable income who live w/in walking distance of their park.

I bet if you asked the average Chicagoan to guess what percentage of baseball attendance the Sox get in Chicago, the typical response would be 10% or less. Why wouldn't people think that? It's been drummed into our heads by the that perpetual mind-numbing hype for years.

Unfortunately, no matter how well the Sox draw this year, the media will stick with their myth. They always have an excuse to dismiss good Sox attendance: it's because of half-price night, it's because of fireworks night, it's because of kids day, it's because of some giveaway day, blah, blah, blah. It's constantly qualified that way in the press. Even if the Sox manage to average 35k for the rest of the season (which they probably won't), you know that the media will focus their attention on the 5,000 "empty blue seats" and not the 35k occupied ones.
Yeah, let's instead live in a dream world where we can pretend that Half Price nights, kids days and fuzzy math attendance counting don't skew the revenue reality, and that attendance trends on the South side in the last 10 years are "no biggie" and were in fact "expected".

We're right to expect JR to add at least 5-10 mill in salary the rest of this year....and recent attendance figures HAVE been encouraging.......But let's not pretend everything is and was rosey -- Sox could barely muster 50 Mill payroll in 2003 when they hosted the All-Star Game, remember?

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 04:06 PM
Just out of curiosity, what IS the new capacity of USCF?
I think it's about 41k now, but with promotions and complimentary tickets, they seem to be maxing out at 39,500 when they have sellouts.

IIRC, the original seating capacity was around 44k and that went up to 47k after lower deck renovations and is now down to 41k after the UD renovations. If the best they can do now is about 39,500 - then I wouldn't be surprised to see the long-rumored "HR Porch" added in RF for 2005 to regain lost seating capacity.

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 04:18 PM
Yeah, let's instead live in a dream world where we can pretend that Half Price nights, kids days and fuzzy math attendance counting don't skew the revenue reality, and that attendance trends on the South side in the last 10 years are "no biggie" and were in fact "expected".
What fuzzy math? I never said anything about revenue - this thread was about fan support. We could have a whole separate thread on revenue - the good and the bad. Excuse me for trying to show that more than "Nobody" supports the Sox in Chicago! I forgot that all WSI threads were supposed to be negative.

Basten
07-12-2004, 04:29 PM
. Excuse me for trying to show that more than "Nobody" supports the Sox in Chicago!
Nobody? No.

Not enough? Yes.


See the difference?

Mickster
07-12-2004, 04:44 PM
Just out of curiosity, what IS the new capacity of USCF?
I think the official capacity is 40,600.

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 05:03 PM
Nobody? No.

Not enough? Yes.


See the difference?I stand corrected. I'm switching back into glass-is-half-empty mode now. I now realize that the Trib, Mariotti et. al are right to harp on Sox attendance. The Sox had fireworks night and kids day against Seattle, so I'm no longer happy with the crowds they had.

I'll try to think twice before being so positive about the Sox on WSI again. I always do so at my own risk.:mad:

Basten
07-12-2004, 06:48 PM
I stand corrected. I'm switching back into glass-is-half-empty mode now. I now realize that the Trib, Mariotti et. al are right to harp on Sox attendance. The Sox had fireworks night and kids day against Seattle, so I'm no longer happy with the crowds they had.

I'll try to think twice before being so positive about the Sox on WSI again. I always do so at my own risk.:mad:Hey man, there is nothing wrong with glass-is-half-full exuberance - just see my Randy Johnson comments and you'll know what I mean....

But at the same time, one simply can't rationally look at the last 10 years' worth of attendance/cash flow and do backflips - not when we expect the ever-frugal businessman JR to spend 75-80+ Mill on payroll. Sorry.

As far as WSI......Would you rather this place was over-run by Clown-town homers? Nothing wrong with criticism if it's supported by facts.

Randar68
07-12-2004, 06:56 PM
As far as WSI......Would you rather this place was over-run by Clown-town homers? Nothing wrong with criticism if it's supported by facts.
LOL. If the FOLIPS had their way, it would be the exact polar opposite of what you described. The FOLIP's are trying to turn this into "ass-clown central"

GoSox2K3
07-12-2004, 07:29 PM
Hey man, there is nothing wrong with glass-is-half-full exuberance - just see my Randy Johnson comments and you'll know what I mean....

But at the same time, one simply can't rationally look at the last 10 years' worth of attendance/cash flow and do backflips - not when we expect the ever-frugal businessman JR to spend 75-80+ Mill on payroll. Sorry.

As far as WSI......Would you rather this place was over-run by Clown-town homers? Nothing wrong with criticism if it's supported by facts.I don't mind the criticism or exchange of ideas if it isn't put in such a smartass way. Geez, I try to look on the bright side and I get this "hey in your dreamworld with fuzzy math" crap in response. All I was trying to say was that things are not as bad as generally portrayed. I never said anything about the notion that the Sox are rolling in dough or anything like that. In fact, I agree with what you are saying about the bigger picture of the Sox situation of what's happened to the franchise over the last decade. That would be an interesting separate thread to have some day.

And thanks alot Randar for calling me an ass-clown for sticking up for myself. That takes alot of class from someone who is such a WSI "high priest". I guess if you can use the a-word like that, I can say that some of you guys are real *******s.

You guys take all the fun out of posting here because there seems to be less and less civil responses about why people disagree and more sarcastic responses of the "yeah, you're a moron" tone.

After 300 something posts here, I've had it. Posting here is becoming more of a booby trap than it was when I first signed on a few years ago. And don't bother replying - I know you guys don't give a rats behind that I'm leaving.

(that and I'll probably come crawling back in a while because I can't stay away from the Sox stuff.:o: )

Basten
07-12-2004, 07:37 PM
LOL. If the FOLIPS had their way, it would be the exact polar opposite of what you described. The FOLIP's are trying to turn this into "ass-clown central"
FOLIPS?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-12-2004, 07:44 PM
I don't mind the criticism or exchange of ideas if it isn't put in such a smartass way. Geez, I try to look on the bright side and I get this "hey in your dreamworld with fuzzy math" crap in response.
Attendance is up this year and it's up without the marketing help of hosting the all-star game. There might not have been any drop-off in attendance for the current Sox to rebound from if not for a series of missteps by the front office, most infamously the scuttling of the 1994 season and the 1997 White Flag trade. Sox Fans have "repaid" the team's owner several-fold for his role in creating these blunders. I should also mention that the franchise was enjoying unprecedented success both in the box office and the standings in the early-90's, an especially critical period for the Sox because it was the first time they ever faced competition for night baseball customers in Chicago. The Cubune railroading the City of Chicago into getting lights for the Urinal did more than to threaten the viability fo the Sox franchise than I think most observers realize.

But some people simply can't deal with good news. Don't let them get you down.

voodoochile
07-13-2004, 12:15 AM
Right, except the part about Colon on the mound in 2000. Unless you mean it was for the Indians...?
Yeah, I guess I do... Too funny. I was actually picturing him pitching for the Sox, but he was definitely pitching and it was for the Tribe...:D:

I was there too...:supernana:

voodoochile
07-13-2004, 12:25 AM
FOLIPS?
Friends
Of
Lip(man)

generally people who view the Sox as "glass is way less than 1/2 full, has been that way for all of their lives and will probably remain that way until they die or JR sells the team." No amount of positive spin can convince them that .5 games up at the ASB is a good thing and they are always looking for the downside of good things that are reported...

Attendance up? It must be the fireworks...

OHMIGAWD! THE SOX USED SOMETHING NON-BASEBALL RELATED TO DRAW CUSTOMERS! FIRE ALL GUNS PORTSIDE AND RUNAWAY! RUNAWAAAAAAYYY!!!:rolleyes:

Basten
07-13-2004, 12:50 AM
Sox Fans have "repaid" the team's owner several-fold for his role in creating these blunders.ROTFLMAO.

You really do think Sox fans have "hurt" JR by staying away in droves, don't you?

The only thing the Great Boycott accomplished is it stopped the awesome momentum of the early 90's dead in its tracks, and sent the "take this city, it's yours" message North-ward.

1995-2002 was our big chance: capitalize on the early 90's success; use the Bulls dynasty to sell the Sox and SouthSide; put the franchise on the national map with great playoff success (say, a World Series or two) and make it THAT much more difficult for the Cubs to put a strangle-hold on the Casual Fan - afterall, with a possible exception of 1998, they sucked HARD in that time frame. The Chicago stage was set for Black and White......

JR and his fellow investors are hard-core businessmen who will not spend big without big attendance, ratings, merch. sales, etc -- without big revenue flow in other words. Whether this approach is right or wrong, smart or incredibly stupid is irrelevant; it's just a fact that last 25 years bear out......And without big payroll, there is no talent. And without talent, there is no sustainable success. And without such unqualified success, why would a casual fan and national media give one crap about a blue-collar team in an "undesirable" neighborhood?

By abandoning the franchise (again, no matter how justified blablablabla), many Sox fans made their choice -- their grievance with the owner mattered to them more than the TEAM which their fathers and grandfathers spent their lives rooting for. They cheated themselves out of a great experience and memories at the ballpark, and the team -- out of a bright future as far as I am concerned. Quitters.

And JR? He will die soon, what does he care? He is a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, anyway - and he sure as hell ain't losing money NO MATTER WHAT THE TEAM DOES, sweet lease and media deal and all.

So yeah, forgive me for expecting just a little bit more than 2 weeks worth of "attendance boom" that comes on the heels of a 10 year attendance/ratings/popularity drought.

I guess I am not easily impressed -- not when I expect JR to do something he's never done -- that is to fling open a purse and shell out for Randy Johnson and another bat. And he ain't doing that without BIG-TIME cash flow surge, like it or not.

The end.

Basten
07-13-2004, 12:53 AM
Friends
Of
Lip(man)

generally people who view the Sox as "glass is way less than 1/2 full, has been that way for all of their lives and will probably remain that way until they die or JR sells the team." No amount of positive spin can convince them that .5 games up at the ASB is a good thing and they are always looking for the downside of good things that are reported...

Attendance up? It must be the fireworks...

OHMIGAWD! THE SOX USED SOMETHING NON-BASEBALL RELATED TO DRAW CUSTOMERS! FIRE ALL GUNS PORTSIDE AND RUNAWAY! RUNAWAAAAAAYYY!!!:rolleyes:

LOL -- is it anything like Friends of Dorothy?

voodoochile
07-13-2004, 01:35 AM
LOL -- is it anything like Friends of Dorothy?
I don't know if that is where the reference comes from or not. I know they don't mean the same thing, not there is anything wrong with either one of them in or by themselves...:?: ... um... but I digress...

It's reference at WSI comes from the FOB. The Friends of Buddy Lee (AKA Royce "The Choice" Clayton) and the way they seemed so damned offended and indignant at the idea that Clayton wasn't better than Valentin. The debates were very heated. It got ugly and the FOB's were born... Not that there's anything wrong with that either...:bandance:

SaltyPretzel
07-13-2004, 09:11 AM
By abandoning the franchise (again, no matter how justified blablablabla), many Sox fans made their choice -- their grievance with the owner mattered to them more than the TEAM which their fathers and grandfathers spent their lives rooting for. They cheated themselves out of a great experience and memories at the ballpark, and the team -- out of a bright future as far as I am concerned. Quitters.


I boycotted the 1995 season because I felt that after years of my support, the owners and players abandoned me. I felt my self-respect was more important than my allegiance to a baseball team.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-13-2004, 09:20 AM
...You really do think Sox fans have "hurt" JR by staying away in droves, don't you?

The only thing the Great Boycott accomplished is it stopped the awesome momentum of the early 90's dead in its tracks, and sent the "take this city, it's yours" message North-ward....

... So yeah, forgive me for expecting just a little bit more than 2 weeks worth of "attendance boom" that comes on the heels of a 10 year attendance/ratings/popularity drought...
Hmm... interesting theory. I'm guessing you've emptied your wallet on behalf of the Sox? Good for you! We appreciate your support, especially since you footed the bill.

And since when is a 17 percent attendance increase across 3 months suddenly converted into a "2-week attendance boom?" It must be that New Math I've been hearing about.

Basten
07-13-2004, 09:54 AM
I boycotted the 1995 season because I felt that after years of my support, the owners and players abandoned me. I felt my self-respect was more important than my allegiance to a baseball team.
Ok I could maybe I understand 1995. Fine. But 1996-2003? Sorry, that's not boycotting the owner -- that's disowning the team. As a result of this folly, Sox were pretty much relegated to the 'small market' status over the last decade, and the city was handed to the Cubs on a silver platter. And I guarantee you, JR's cigars and women didn't taste any worse for it.

Those quitters crippled this franchise for years to come -- for instance, how did you like losing ALC in 2003 because of the hard budget constraints (JR ain't spending without fans showing up first) that allowed for Wright-Cotts-Stewart-Porzio to account for 3-4 extra losses? Just 2-3 extra Mill spent on a good 5th starter once it was clear Wright wasn't the same would have likely meant a divisional crown.

And this season, too, it's basically Randy Johnson or eating dinner. But at least we're gonna break 2 Mill, so that's, um, something. :rolleyes:




[/yes I do realize that most people on this site did not in fact quit on the team - they wouldn't be wasting time and money on this site if they did]

Basten
07-13-2004, 10:08 AM
Hmm... interesting theory. I'm guessing you've emptied your wallet on behalf of the Sox? Good for you! We appreciate your support, especially since you footed the bill.

And since when is a 17 percent attendance increase across 3 months suddenly converted into a "2-week attendance boom?" It must be that New Math I've been hearing about.
When I got a chance to, you damn right I've emptied my wallet on behalf of my favorite team, myself and my friends. Without giving it a second thought, might I add. You see, I am not about to let some greedy insincere bastard cheat me out of an authentic ballpark-going, baseball-watching, fraternizing experience. I know what's good for me and my team. I have a feeling you do, too.

17% (TV ratings increase is even higher) jump is certainly a good start, no question. But if you want such cold-hearted businessman as JR to get you your Randy Johnsons and Carlos Beltrans, a 30-40% surge is what's expected. And ideally it would be taking place in 1996, not 2004.

nasox
07-13-2004, 11:25 AM
It must be that New Math I've been hearing about.
I wonder how well you trip on the new stuff. :D:

voodoochile
07-13-2004, 11:55 AM
When I got a chance to, you damn right I've emptied my wallet on behalf of my favorite team, myself and my friends. Without giving it a second thought, might I add. You see, I am not about to let some greedy insincere bastard cheat me out of an authentic ballpark-going, baseball-watching, fraternizing experience. I know what's good for me and my team. I have a feeling you do, too.

17% (TV ratings increase is even higher) jump is certainly a good start, no question. But if you want such cold-hearted businessman as JR to get you your Randy Johnsons and Carlos Beltrans, a 30-40% surge is what's expected. And ideally it would be taking place in 1996, not 2004.
Okay, Professor, build that "Wayback machine" and we'll get right on it...

Why you griping about the last 10 years? It's over. It's done. It's JR's fault. It's that simple. Fans are back and that's because JR finally hired a GM who will go for it, building around the franchise players that are Maggs, Frank, Lee, Konerko and Buehrle. You want to excuse JR's part in the attendance crap that happened, that's your business, but the fact is, he's a major part of the problem. It isn't just him Sox fans distrust, it's the way he runs the team. Maybe you forgot that little thing called the "White Flag Trade" which not only crushed attendance for the following two years, but coined a whole new phrase for trading talent at the deadline.

JR deserves the fan's wrath and just so you know, I averaged at least 10 games a year for as far back as I can remember prior to moving to NC in February. Heck, I even had a partial ST package in 2001...

Basten
07-13-2004, 01:44 PM
Okay, Professor, build that "Wayback machine" and we'll get right on it...

Why you griping about the last 10 years? It's over. It's done. It's JR's fault. It's that simple. Fans are back and that's because JR finally hired a GM who will go for it, building around the franchise players that are Maggs, Frank, Lee, Konerko and Buehrle. You want to excuse JR's part in the attendance crap that happened, that's your business, but the fact is, he's a major part of the problem. It isn't just him Sox fans distrust, it's the way he runs the team. Maybe you forgot that little thing called the "White Flag Trade" which not only crushed attendance for the following two years, but coined a whole new phrase for trading talent at the deadline.

JR deserves the fan's wrath and just so you know, I averaged at least 10 games a year for as far back as I can remember prior to moving to NC in February. Heck, I even had a partial ST package in 2001...Yo pops, show me where I was "excusing" JR's culpability. Far from it.

By now I figured we all know what JR is and what JR isn't. Colangelo he is definately not, for better or for worse.

The "if you spend, we will come", who-blinks-first (more like catch-22) crap hasn't worked in 10 years, and real Sox fans are the ones who saw the Cubs overtake the city as the Sox slid into irrelevance in that time frame. But hey, the great multitude of boycotees certainly showed JR who is the boss. :rolleyes:

1994 Strike was his doing, but 1995 was the time for Sox fans to collectively GET OVER IT (that is, unless, um, they'd rather dwell in the past than look into the brighter future...irony) and to start attending and consuming like crazy, so JR would have no excuses not to have by far the highest payroll in ALC in 1996-1997-1998-1999 and on.......As you know, the opposite happened, culminating in an embarassingly low 50 Mill payroll in the ASG season, 2003.

"Fans are back"? We're barely gonna clear 2.0 Mill in a renovated ballpark and with a first place team on the field -- and that figure is inflated by half-price nights, kids days and assorted freebies. Let's not signal the Gread South Side Renaissance just yet, eh?

You want an 80+ Mill payroll as I assume we all do? 2.0 Mill attendance is not gonna get it done. 2.5 Mill might not, either. This season has been a small but pleasant surprise as far as ratings and attendance, but it only further underscores the travesty that was 1995-2003. Chicago was for the taking, and both JR and Sox fans totally blew it. Shame.

And you know what? If JR keeps his end of the bargain and somehow gets us a Randy Johnson, you bet there'll be a whole new slew of excuses from the many fans who don't attend games on any sort of regular basis. :smile:

Edit: there is no need to show your park-attending credentials because if you run this site, chances are you've supported this team through thick and thin, which I respect. So this isn't about you or most die-hards posting here or other boards, for that matter.

Flight #24
07-13-2004, 01:57 PM
ROTFLMAO.

You really do think Sox fans have "hurt" JR by staying away in droves, don't you?

The only thing the Great Boycott accomplished is it stopped the awesome momentum of the early 90's dead in its tracks, and sent the "take this city, it's yours" message North-ward.

1995-2002 was our big chance: capitalize on the early 90's success; use the Bulls dynasty to sell the Sox and SouthSide; put the franchise on the national map with great playoff success (say, a World Series or two) and make it THAT much more difficult for the Cubs to put a strangle-hold on the Casual Fan - afterall, with a possible exception of 1998, they sucked HARD in that time frame. The Chicago stage was set for Black and White......

JR and his fellow investors are hard-core businessmen who will not spend big without big attendance, ratings, merch. sales, etc -- without big revenue flow in other words. Whether this approach is right or wrong, smart or incredibly stupid is irrelevant; it's just a fact that last 25 years bear out......And without big payroll, there is no talent. And without talent, there is no sustainable success. And without such unqualified success, why would a casual fan and national media give one crap about a blue-collar team in an "undesirable" neighborhood?

By abandoning the franchise (again, no matter how justified blablablabla), many Sox fans made their choice -- their grievance with the owner mattered to them more than the TEAM which their fathers and grandfathers spent their lives rooting for. They cheated themselves out of a great experience and memories at the ballpark, and the team -- out of a bright future as far as I am concerned. Quitters.

And JR? He will die soon, what does he care? He is a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, anyway - and he sure as hell ain't losing money NO MATTER WHAT THE TEAM DOES, sweet lease and media deal and all.

So yeah, forgive me for expecting just a little bit more than 2 weeks worth of "attendance boom" that comes on the heels of a 10 year attendance/ratings/popularity drought.

I guess I am not easily impressed -- not when I expect JR to do something he's never done -- that is to fling open a purse and shell out for Randy Johnson and another bat. And he ain't doing that without BIG-TIME cash flow surge, like it or not.

The end.
Well put Basten. Bottom line: blame is useless, accomplishes nothing. Anyone who holds out on attending games because they're anti-JR and thinks they're somehow impacting him is fooling only themselves. Facts are that JR will not lose money. So the decision is 1)Attend games, enjoy the team and baseball experience, and help promote a higher payroll, or 2)Stay home, cheat yourself of baseball, and help ensure that payroll is lower. Contrary to what many seem to believe - there is no option 3)Stay home and force JR to sell.

And anyone that holds out when the team is obviously aggressive, willing to increase payroll, taking a serious shot at a WS - well they're just looking for excuses, they're not really interested in going.

nasox
07-13-2004, 02:05 PM
Yo pops, show me where I was "excusing" JR's culpability. Far from it.

By now I figured we all know what JR is and what JR isn't. Colangelo he is definately not, for better or for worse.

The "if you spend, we will come", who-blinks-first (more like catch-22) crap hasn't worked in 10 years, and real Sox fans are the ones who saw the Cubs overtake the city as the Sox slid into irrelevance in that time frame. But hey, the great multitude of boycotees certainly showed JR who is the boss. :rolleyes:

1994 Strike was his doing, but 1995 was the time for Sox fans to collectively GET OVER IT (that is, unless, um, they'd rather dwell in the past than look into the brighter future...irony) and to start attending and consuming like crazy, so JR would have no excuses not to have by far the highest payroll in ALC in 1996-1997-1998-1999 and on. The opposite happened, culminating in an embarassingly low 50 Mill payroll in the ASG season, 2003.

"Fans are back"? We're barely gonna clear 2.0 Mill in a renovated ballpark and with a first place team on the field -- and that figure is inflated by half-price nights, kids days and assorted freebies.

You want an 80+ Mill payroll as I assume we all do? 2.0 Mill attendance is not gonna get it done. 2.5 Mill might not, either. This season has been a small but pleasant surprise as far as ratings and attendance, but it only further underscores the travesty that was 1995-2003. Chicago was for the taking, and both JR and Sox fans totally blew it. Shame.

And you know what? If JR keeps his end of the bargain and somehow gets us a Randy Johnson, you bet there'll be a whole new slew of excuses from the many fans who don't attend games on any sort of regular basis. :smile:

Edit: there is no need to show your park-attending credentials because if you run this site, chances are you've supported this team through thick and thin. This isn't about you or most die-hards posting here, for that matter.
Look, you are beating a dead horse here, and this dead horse has already been beaten so much, it looks like ground beef from Taco Bell (maybe you could be full). This thread was created to comment on the increase of attendance that we have had this season. We are at a little over a million. We will reach 2.2 (my estimate-2 is certainly going to be attained) by the end of this year. No matter what you may think in that peanut sized brain you evidently have, an increase of 17% is still in increase. An increase of .0000001% is still an increase. So we have more attendance. Good for us. JR already approved a trade for Garcia, a pitcher that we have locked up for 3 (count em, three) more years. Why is it that he has to make two blockbuster deals for you to be happy, your highness? KW already made his move. Why should he make another one? Explain.

I see RJ as a high risk pitcher who is not worth what we would have to give up. He is old, and has a high price tag. Not worth it.

JR already kept his end of the bargain and is raising payroll (he approved a payroll raise) and by acquiring FG and signing him for three years. Done and Done. And he means done. So why ask for a double serving when we are lucky enough to get a single? Cherish what he has done as it goes against everything else JR has done before.

So you want JR to do something that he cannot do. And therefore you hi-jacked this thread to let us all know about it. But in doing that, you came off as a blowhard to me. And while we're at it, why are you sitting on the fence? Can you make up your mind? It is as if in your arguments you are in one end saying that JR is to blame, and then at the other end you are saying the fans are to blame. You sound like the MORON. Stop :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: and GET OVER IT.
If I may quote Jack Black, "Go to the Mall."
BTW, thanks for hi-jacking this thread, We really appreciate it.
What a waste of time.

Basten
07-13-2004, 02:09 PM
Bottom line: blame is useless, accomplishes nothing. Anyone who holds out on attending games because they're anti-JR and thinks they're somehow impacting him is fooling only themselves. Facts are that JR will not lose money. So the decision is 1)Attend games, enjoy the team and baseball experience, and help promote a higher payroll, or 2)Stay home, cheat yourself of baseball, and help ensure that payroll is lower. Contrary to what many seem to believe - there is no option 3)Stay home and force JR to sell.
.If Chicago were a ONE-team city, then maybe the completely avoidable 10-year drought of 1995-2003 could be semi-tolerable.

But reality is, the Sox are running out of time -- with Tribune Company finally deciding to win a World Series or two and in the process totally bury us in this town last year. That part sucks the most - and that's one of the reasons why I feel Sox' backs are now against the wall as far as overpaying for old man Randy Johnson goes -- we gotta go for it right now and in the next few years, or else.

StepsInSC
07-13-2004, 02:15 PM
Well on another note I'm estatic for baseball in general. I think this has been a great season for the sport. Attendance is up all over the league, there are very few teams who are totally out of the playoff races, and so far its been a great season all around. :gulp:

ma_deuce
07-14-2004, 09:00 AM
Attendance is up this year and it's up without the marketing help of hosting the all-star game.
...or half-price Mondays.

Deuce

bobj4400
07-14-2004, 12:43 PM
[QUOTE=voodoochile](AKA Royce "The Choice" Clayton) [QUOTE]

What is the background on the nickname "The Choice" for Clayton?

ChiSox1906
07-15-2004, 04:38 PM
Is there a link that could tell us the attendance for every single game?

onenine19
07-15-2004, 04:53 PM
Is there a link that could tell us the attendance for every single game?here's a link http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=chw

gosox41
07-17-2004, 11:51 PM
I have been really warmed by the big crowds in recent months. Last night against Seattle it was a sellout. even though it was a fireworks night, you werent seeing this stuff in the last three years. Even nonhalfprice nights, like on Wed. or Thu, the crowds are respectable.....My theory is that time heals wounds and people are starting to let go of their grudges concerning White Flag and the Strike and coming back to support the Sox!! Anyone else on the larger crowds
That is one theory. The other one is that winning draws fans.


Bob

OEO Magglio
07-17-2004, 11:53 PM
That is one theory. The other one is that winning draws fans.


BobI'll go along with your theory.