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View Full Version : Joe Borchard starting in RF today!


Aidan
07-10-2004, 04:42 PM
Joe Borchard gets his first start in RF today with Magglio as DH!

Projected Lineup:
1.) Uribe 2B
2.) Rowand CF
3.) Ordonez DH
4.) Lee LF
5.) Konerko 1B
6.) Crede 3B
7.) Borchard RF
8.) Valentin SS
9.) Burke C

I love the lineup vs. the lefty tonight.

hose
07-10-2004, 04:44 PM
:LTP

LIGHT TOWER POWER

Aidan
07-10-2004, 04:48 PM
:LTP

LIGHT TOWER POWERDoes LTP mean that or "Long-Term Project"? And is Light Tower Power a knock on Borchard or a compliment?

OzzieBall2004
07-10-2004, 04:48 PM
He was on the the Snore670 with JHood. He sounded upbeat and ready. He was really excited about getting another chance in the bigs.

On a side note, does anyone know the rule on options and how many times a player can be called up and sent down?

CWSGuy406
07-10-2004, 04:49 PM
Good luck tonight, Joe! :bandance:

HomeFish
07-10-2004, 04:51 PM
:LTP

LIGHT TOWER POWER

He looks like Ed Farmer in that picture.

MisterB
07-10-2004, 04:55 PM
He looks like Ed Farmer in that picture.No need to insult the guy...:D:

hose
07-10-2004, 04:56 PM
Does LTP mean that or "Long-Term Project"? And is Light Tower Power a knock on Borchard or a compliment?
LTP is a 5 tooler, expect a breakout starting tonight.

pudge
07-10-2004, 05:12 PM
LTP is a 5 tooler, expect a breakout starting tonight.
A five-tooler who couldn't crack the International League top ten in any major statistic.

But here's hoping you're right! :gulp:

hose
07-10-2004, 05:17 PM
A five-tooler who couldn't crack the International League top ten in any major statistic.

But here's hoping you're right! :gulp:

Stop with the negative waves Moriarity:smile:

HomeFish
07-10-2004, 05:22 PM
Which tools exactly does "five-tool player" refer to?

I know in the case of Liefer and Borchard its screwdriver, wrench, flashlight, etc., but I meant normally. I honestly don't know that one.

hose
07-10-2004, 05:25 PM
Notice how Hawk has been giving the height and weight of players lately?

May be the Florida Marlins got Hawk going.

:hawk
"Big Joe Borchard 6'5 220 is Jay 5'1 145 Marriotti's and my pick to click"

hose
07-10-2004, 05:28 PM
Which tools exactly does "five-tool player" refer to?

I know in the case of Liefer and Borchard its screwdriver, wrench, flashlight, etc., but I meant normally. I honestly don't know that one.
run
hit
throw
field
hit for power

WSox8404
07-10-2004, 05:30 PM
Good luck LTP. Man if he can only provide decent power numbers.....

SoxxoS
07-10-2004, 05:38 PM
run
hit
throw
field
hit for power
I think Borchard will play solid defense...at least as solid as Maggs in RF. I just am not convinced that he can hit the ball with any kind of consistancy. I don't care about the power as much as the contact...

Win1ForMe
07-10-2004, 05:46 PM
Just curious, but what is Borchard's better hitting side?

Aidan
07-10-2004, 05:53 PM
Just curious, but what is Borchard's better hitting side?I think it's his left side which sucks because he is facing a lefty pitcher tonight, meaning he will be batting righty.

Kadafi311
07-10-2004, 06:53 PM
I think Borchard will play solid defense...at least as solid as Maggs in RF. I just am not convinced that he can hit the ball with any kind of consistancy. I don't care about the power as much as the contact...Agreed.

Swing for contact.

Be the ball.

1,000 points of light, Joe.

Nick@Nite
07-10-2004, 07:03 PM
Good Luck Joe Borchard in your MLB debut!

fquaye149
07-10-2004, 07:07 PM
Good Luck Joe Borchard in your MLB debut!
you'd think it was for all the hoopla.

Nick@Nite
07-10-2004, 07:35 PM
you'd think it was for all the hoopla.
Just trying to keep up those positive waves.:D:

Btw, I just heard that this isn't his MLB debut... anyway, give it a rip tonight, Joe.

munchman33
07-10-2004, 11:09 PM
Just curious, but what is Borchard's better hitting side?
Borchard hits for better average from the right side and with more power from the left.

Bucktown
07-10-2004, 11:33 PM
At least now I don't have to read the posts demanding that Borchard be brought up, as if he is our savior. He is now 17 for 88 in the majors (.193).

Daver
07-10-2004, 11:45 PM
On a side note, does anyone know the rule on options and how many times a player can be called up and sent down?
A player has three option years, and can be called up or sent down any number of times in those three years. After the third year he would have to clear waivers to be sent down to the minors.

Basten
07-11-2004, 04:56 PM
run
hit
throw
field
hit for power
Run? No. Average base-runner.
Hit? No - barely mustered enough batspeed to handle an 84mph fastball off Moyer just the othe at-bat. Better from the left side, but still nothing special.
Throw? Yes.
Field? Average range in CF - being generous here. Not a tool.
Power? Yes - but without contact, power is useless.

Where is the 6th tool, patience/eye? Ah doesn't matter, he lacks that, too.


Come on Joe, prove me wrong. This one I'd love to chew some crow on, really.

Aidan
07-11-2004, 05:06 PM
Run? No. Average base-runner.
Hit? No - barely mustered enough batspeed to handle an 84mph fastball off Moyer just the othe at-bat. Better from the left side, but still nothing special.
Throw? Yes.
Field? Average range in CF - being generous here. Not a tool.
Power? Yes - but without contact, power is useless.

Where is the 6th tool, patience/eye? Ah doesn't matter, he lacks that, too.


Come on Joe, prove me wrong. This one I'd love to chew some crow on, really. Well, he got his first hit today and hit another one to deep left field off the end of his bat. We shall see about the power. He did draw a walk yesterday. He is fine in RF with a good arm. I don't ever really expect him to be a CF in the MLB. The sample size is too small to judge.

Basten
07-11-2004, 05:15 PM
Well, he got his first hit today and hit another one to deep left field off the end of his bat. We shall see about the power. He did draw a walk yesterday. He is fine in RF with a good arm. I don't ever really expect him to be a CF in the MLB. The sample size is too small to judge.He got jammed on his weak grounder through to RF and that "deep" FO was also a jam-shot off a 70 mph change-up in the zone that didn't even go THAT far.

His swing is unimpressive to say the least - just as I remember it from the last few years. Hopefully he does a lot of damage from the left side - if he could ever make quality contact, he'd be tremendeously effective. IF.

TaylorStSox
07-11-2004, 05:33 PM
He got jammed on his weak grounder through to RF and that "deep" FO was also a jam-shot off a 70 mph change-up in the zone that didn't even go THAT far.

His swing is unimpressive to say the least - just as I remember it from the last few years. Hopefully he does a lot of damage from the left side - if he could ever make quality contact, he'd be tremendeously effective. IF.

The "jam shot" off the end of the bat to left? :?:

He's had a few good swings and shown decent patience in the few AB's since he's come up. Allow him some time to adjust.

Is he gonna hit for avg.? Probably not
Is he gonna K alot? Probably
Is he gonna hit for power and bring a good glove? Probably

hawkjt
07-11-2004, 05:39 PM
Hey did you see anyone getting great swings off of Moyer in the last 5 innings. What did we get -5 hits? I just hope Moyer does not screw Joe up for the next 5 games. That guy is tough on us, period. Thank you Carlos for saving Freddy on that catch.

bigdommer
07-11-2004, 06:19 PM
Congrats to Joe! His hit and run proved to come in handy in a one run ball game. I don't think he got jammed, I think he went to the plate looking to go to right because he rolled over on his first AB. Only WSI could turn his first hit of the season into a bad thing!

I like Joe's chances better this year for a few reasons. First, he is more mature and has learned to cut down on his K's in Charlotte. Second, he has less pressure on him this year. Last year, we wanted him to play center and save a struggling offense. This year, we want him to play RF until Maggs gets healthier, and then DH until Frank gets healthy. And finally, its gotta be better coming up and playing for Ozzie than for JM.

Basten
07-11-2004, 06:28 PM
The "jam shot" off the end of the bat to left? :?:

He's had a few good swings and shown decent patience in the few AB's since he's come up. Allow him some time to adjust.

Is he gonna hit for avg.? Probably not
Is he gonna K alot? Probably
Is he gonna hit for power and bring a good glove? Probably
Ok, he will be above-average defensively in RF, but he is no Ichoro or even Cruz. He is not about to steal 20-30 bases any time soon - althought, given that Abreu is no faster than Joe and is 19 for 20 in steals this year, why the hell not?

So, what did you have in mind with "hitting for power"? 900-950 OPS? I'll take that in a heartbeat. I guess.:D:

TaylorStSox
07-11-2004, 06:34 PM
Ok, he will be above-average defensively in RF, but he is no Ichoro or even Cruz. He is not about to steal 20-30 bases any time soon - althought, given that Abreu is no faster than Joe and is 19 for 20 in steals this year, why the hell not?

So, what did you have in mind with "hitting for power"? 900-950 OPS? I'll take that in a heartbeat. I guess.:D:

I don't think his OPS will ever be alarming because he doesn't walk enough. Slugging percentage and RBI's will be the best way to evaluate him statistically IMO.

His speed won't be reflected in SB's either. He's not going to steal many bases. His value as a baserunner will be judged in being able to go 1st to 3rd and to turn singles into the occasional double.

Basten
07-11-2004, 06:59 PM
I don't think his OPS will ever be alarming because he doesn't walk enough. Slugging percentage and RBI's will be the best way to evaluate him statistically IMO.

His speed won't be reflected in SB's either. He's not going to steal many bases. His value as a baserunner will be judged in being able to go 1st to 3rd and to turn singles into the occasional double.Considering that OPS is more important than RBI total (unless he hits significantly better with RO and RISP and in 'Close and Late' situations than the league average, in which case a lower OPS would be forgiveable), I'd say yeah it's the best way to judge him.

He needs to average at least 1 walk per 10 at bats - and hopefully 1.5 or even 2.

Strike-outs I couldn't give a crap about - if Joe gives me 950 OPS and good clutch numbers, I could care less if he K's 150+ times.

TaylorStSox
07-11-2004, 07:06 PM
Considering that OPS is more important than RBI total (unless he hits significantly better with RO and RISP and in 'Close and Late' situations than the league average, in which case a lower OPS would be forgiveable), I'd say yeah it's the best way to judge him.

He needs to average at least 1 walk per 10 at bats - and hopefully 1.5 or even 2.

Strike-outs I couldn't give a crap about - if Joe gives me 950 OPS and good clutch numbers, I could care less if he K's 150+ times.

Here's where we differ. I'm not a FOBB at all. I don't really care how much he walks as long as he drives in runs. RBI's are more important that OBP for your middle of the line up guys. Which is where Joe would be ideally hitting.

doublem23
07-11-2004, 07:40 PM
Here's where we differ. I'm not a FOBB at all. I don't really care how much he walks as long as he drives in runs. RBI's are more important that OBP for your middle of the line up guys. Which is where Joe would be ideally hitting.
I don't think you have to be a FOBB to see the complete lack of logic in this post. You need guys to be on base to drive in runs. You don't need guys to be on base to get on base yourself.

TaylorStSox
07-11-2004, 07:50 PM
I don't think you have to be a FOBB to see the complete lack of logic in this post. You need guys to be on base to drive in runs. You don't need guys to be on base to get on base yourself.
You need the top of the order guys to get on base. Same thing with 7-9. Your 3-6 hitters should be your run producers. It's a fad stat right now. Next week it'll be ERA+. Then OPS.

Basten
07-11-2004, 08:12 PM
You need the top of the order guys to get on base. Same thing with 7-9. Your 3-6 hitters should be your run producers. It's a fad stat right now. Next week it'll be ERA+. Then OPS.What is a fad stat, OPS? Come on now.

The only time you look "within" OPS is when it's either unusually "light" or unusually "heavy" - as in, a player is either very clutch or very unclutch. I remember Clayton having a 550 'Close and Late' OPS and 600 OPS with RISP one year - so his already unimpressive sub-700 overall OPS was actually even less "valuable" to his team. And vice versa.

Of course for guys like Willie, a 400 OBP is preferrable to 550 Slugg because of the exrta dimension his speed brings. Borchard is not exactly slow either, so his OBP is important as well - not as important as Slug % but it HAS to be at least at the respectable levels (340+)

And, yes, patience and power are tied together - if Borchard refuses to take walks by expanding the strike-zone, and starts swinging at pitcher's pitches, that's ALL the pitchers will throw. Only bad-ball hitters like Vlad, Soriano, Nomar can survive in the bigs without a good eye or discipline - and needless to say, Joe is not one of them.

As far as ERA+.....all it does is normalizes that important stat against the league average. You could just as easily do ZoneRating+ or RC/27+ or what have you. I mean, what good is 2.00 ERA if the league average is, say, 1.00 - as opposed to the league average being 4.60 in which case 2.00 ERA is fantastic.

[/OT]

TaylorStSox
07-11-2004, 08:26 PM
What is a fad stat, OPS? Come on now.

The only time you look "within" OPS is when it's either unusually "light" or unusually "heavy" - as in, a player is either very clutch or very unclutch. I remember Clayton having a 550 'Close and Late' OPS and 600 OPS with RISP one year - so his already unimpressive sub-700 overall OPS was actually even less "valuable" to his team. And vice versa.

Of course for guys like Willie, a 400 OBP is preferrable to 550 Slugg because of the exrta dimension his speed brings. Borchard is not exactly slow either, so his OBP is important as well - not as important as Slug % but it HAS to be at least at the respectable levels (340+)

And, yes, patience and power are tied together - if Borchard refuses to take walks by expanding the strike-zone, and starts swinging at pitcher's pitches, that's ALL the pitchers will throw. Only bad-ball hitters like Vlad, Soriano, Nomar can survive in the bigs without a good eye or discipline - and needless to say, Joe is not one of them.

As far as ERA+.....all it does is normalizes that important stat against the league average. You could just as easily do ZoneRating+ or RC/27+ or what have you. I mean, what good is 2.00 ERA if the league average is, say, 1.00 - as opposed to the league average being 4.60 in which case 2.00 ERA is fantastic.

[/OT]

I agree with most of what you say. However, I want a 3-6 hitter's focus to be to drive the ball, not to just get on base. As much as I love to watch Frank work the count, there are times that I wish he'd be more aggressive. Magg's aggressiveness hitting behind him negates that somewhat though.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that LTP can get on base at a .340 clip. However, I want his primary focus to be driving the ball. Aside from the AB with the bases loaded, LTP's taken alot of pitches well. His minor stats are improving regarding K/BB ratio too.