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jeremyb1
07-10-2004, 12:05 AM
In Shingo's last five outings, we've been ahead by more than three runs (ie a non save situation) in two of those five outings. During that same stretch we brought in Cotts with a two run lead in the 9th and watched him allow several runs putting the game out of reach. Tonight Ozzie brought in our two best relievers to pitch the 8th and 9th with a 5 (!) run lead. This has to stop or it's going to start costing us big time. You need your best relievers in during the most important situations and being up 5 runs in the 9th in not anywhere near as important as being down 1 run in the 7th.

lowesox
07-10-2004, 02:32 AM
Great post. Especially when you consider that Shingo will have to pitch in a lot more games this year then he ever has in the past. And, hopefully, those will be playoff games.

The problem is, the rest of our bullpen is so unreliable. I think that Ozzie needs one more solid righthander. A guy who's been around the block, and who's very consistent. This is a pressing need, and Williams needs to address it.

Cubbiesuck13
07-10-2004, 02:34 AM
Great post. Especially when you consider that Shingo will have to pitch in a lot more games this year then he ever has in the past. And, hopefully, those will be playoff games.

The problem is, the rest of our bullpen is so unreliable. I think that Ozzie needs one more solid righthander. A guy who's been around the block, and who's very consistent. This is a pressing need, and Williams needs to address it.
why does shingo need to pitch more innings than he has in the past?

Evman5
07-10-2004, 08:36 AM
Has anybody else noticed that Shingo has not been using his frisbee lately?
I think he only threw it once last night against Seattle. He used to throw it more often. He seems to be trying to get people out by spotting his fastball, which he has been doing pretty effectively. However, I think this has coincided with the end to his scoreless streak.

SEALgep
07-10-2004, 08:39 AM
Has anybody else noticed that Shingo has not been using his frisbee lately?
I think he only threw it once last night against Seattle. He used to throw it more often. He seems to be trying to get people out by spotting his fastball, which he has been doing pretty effectively. However, I think this has coincided with the end to his scoreless streak.Not really, he was doing that in Minnesota, while the streak was alive. I think they believe he can get guys out without it, especially with a good lead, and save the frisbee for the second half as to keep it first look for most people. That's a guess.

Blob
07-10-2004, 08:41 AM
In Shingo's last five outings, we've been ahead by more than three runs (ie a non save situation) in two of those five outings. During that same stretch we brought in Cotts with a two run lead in the 9th and watched him allow several runs putting the game out of reach. Tonight Ozzie brought in our two best relievers to pitch the 8th and 9th with a 5 (!) run lead. This has to stop or it's going to start costing us big time. You need your best relievers in during the most important situations and being up 5 runs in the 9th in not anywhere near as important as being down 1 run in the 7th.
Would you trust that lead to Mike Jackson?????

I know I wouldn't...

SEALgep
07-10-2004, 08:43 AM
In Shingo's last five outings, we've been ahead by more than three runs (ie a non save situation) in two of those five outings. During that same stretch we brought in Cotts with a two run lead in the 9th and watched him allow several runs putting the game out of reach. Tonight Ozzie brought in our two best relievers to pitch the 8th and 9th with a 5 (!) run lead. This has to stop or it's going to start costing us big time. You need your best relievers in during the most important situations and being up 5 runs in the 9th in not anywhere near as important as being down 1 run in the 7th.First off, we couldn't afford to blow the game regardless of the lead, so I don't see the problem with making sure by putting your most reliable reliever in. He hadn't been used before that much because of our blow outs. Also, pitching isn't all that different from hitting in the sense that you need to keep doing it to stay hot. All that with the fact that the All Star break right around the corner, with ample time to rest, it's good he's getting a couple more appearnaces to stay in rythym.

Evman5
07-10-2004, 08:56 AM
Not really, he was doing that in Minnesota, while the streak was alive. I think they believe he can get guys out without it, especially with a good lead, and save the frisbee for the second half as to keep it first look for most people. That's a guess.

That's what I was thinking too. I think he wants to be effective without it, so he feels that he can get people out in more than one way. However he is so much nastier when he uses the frisbee.

jeremyb1
07-10-2004, 01:06 PM
First off, we couldn't afford to blow the game regardless of the lead, so I don't see the problem with making sure by putting your most reliable reliever in. He hadn't been used before that much because of our blow outs. Also, pitching isn't all that different from hitting in the sense that you need to keep doing it to stay hot. All that with the fact that the All Star break right around the corner, with ample time to rest, it's good he's getting a couple more appearnaces to stay in rythym.

Because now that Koch is gone it's doubtful that anyone will blow a five, four, or even three run lead? It is very very hard to give up five runs in one inning. I wonder whether anyone in the pen has done that this season. Adkins may have once but otherwise I'm drawing a blank. You need to use your best relievers when the game is on the line and that's not the case when you're up four or five runs.

jeremyb1
07-10-2004, 01:09 PM
Would you trust that lead to Mike Jackson?????

I know I wouldn't...

Well I'm not talking about bringing in Marte and Takatsu in the fourth inning. Takatsu could easily still be saved for the 8th and 9th innings and Marte would never pitch earlier than the 6th assuming both of them had decent rest. The other night it was the 9th inning when Cotts came in while we were down two runs. There's absolutely no reason you coudln't bring in Marte in that situation. You wouldn't even have had to use Shingo unless we tied the game. Furthermore if we did get into a situation where we had a very close game and Marte and Shingo had been used we could always go to Politte or Cotts perhaps. Jackson isn't the third pitcher in the pen.

SEALgep
07-10-2004, 01:14 PM
Because now that Koch is gone it's doubtful that anyone will blow a five, four, or even three run lead? It is very very hard to give up five runs in one inning. I wonder whether anyone in the pen has done that this season. Adkins may have once but otherwise I'm drawing a blank. You need to use your best relievers when the game is on the line and that's not the case when you're up four or five runs.I explained the reasoning already, but even if that were the only concern, we could mention several people who have given up more than 5 runs in an inning.

SEALgep
07-10-2004, 01:17 PM
Well I'm not talking about bringing in Marte and Takatsu in the fourth inning. Takatsu could easily still be saved for the 8th and 9th innings and Marte would never pitch earlier than the 6th assuming both of them had decent rest. The other night it was the 9th inning when Cotts came in while we were down two runs. There's absolutely no reason you coudln't bring in Marte in that situation. You wouldn't even have had to use Shingo unless we tied the game. Furthermore if we did get into a situation where we had a very close game and Marte and Shingo had been used we could always go to Politte or Cotts perhaps. Jackson isn't the third pitcher in the pen.Your thinking too hard about the use of the pen. Guys need to be used on a consistent basis to stay in rythym. With the All Star break coming right around the corner, there is no reason to save people, in fact it could be counter productive. It isn't a big deal using Takatsu in that scenerio. I've see Gagne come in with a huge deficit.