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View Full Version : Worried about developments with Maggs talks?


gobears1987
07-09-2004, 10:37 PM
Alot of people are alarmed by KW comments and the break off to talks with Maggs' agent. I might add that both sides are playing PR. This is like poker. There is a good chance that the move being made is a bluff, KW is trying to get Maggs to fold for a cheaper contract while Maggs is bluffing to act like he is leaving when he may have no intentions to do so.

But, maybe it isn't a bluff, that's negotiations for you. In short, don't panic. I say odds are we get Maggs back.

mealfred13
07-09-2004, 11:01 PM
Alot of people are alarmed by KW comments and the break off to talks with Maggs' agent. I might add that both sides are playing PR. This is like poker. There is a good chance that the move being made is a bluff, KW is trying to get Maggs to fold for a cheaper contract while Maggs is bluffing to act like he is leaving when he may have no intentions to do so.

But, maybe it isn't a bluff, that's negotiations for you. In short, don't panic. I say odds are we get Maggs back.
It's too bad that baseball's gotten to a point where you have to play games with people to keep them on your team. What ever happened to honesty and giving people their due....

Kilroy
07-09-2004, 11:47 PM
It's too bad that baseball's gotten to a point where you have to play games with people to keep them on your team. What ever happened to honesty and giving people their due....
That's where the rub is. Maggs thinks he's due more than the Sox do, just like I agree with them, and you seem to think that Maggs should get what he wants. When that happens, the manuvering starts...

nasox
07-10-2004, 12:51 AM
iT's to tough to tell with contract negotiations, especially with such a big name player.

maggliofan10
07-10-2004, 12:59 AM
thank you gobears someone finally agrees with me. I've been saying that in the chat for a while. I think he is just testing the market and seeing what other teams will give him so he doesn't get robbed or so he thinks. He probably is trying to get the most money that he can out of KW and JR.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2004, 01:52 AM
Based on Williams' comments to ESPN during the Angels game it may be a plan that's backfired.

Lip

doublem23
07-10-2004, 04:19 AM
It's too bad that baseball's gotten to a point where you have to play games with people to keep them on your team. What ever happened to honesty and giving people their due....
The offers the Sox have been reportedly offering Magglio have been more than what he's due. If he wants to go out and chase Vladimir Guerrero-type money, he's got a real surprise coming his way.

Magglio Ordonez is not worth $15 million a year. That's a traveshamockery.

owensmouth
07-10-2004, 09:38 AM
The offers the Sox have been reportedly offering Magglio have been more than what he's due. If he wants to go out and chase Vladimir Guerrero-type money, he's got a real surprise coming his way.

Magglio Ordonez is not worth $15 million a year. That's a traveshamockery.
Maybe not to the White Sox or to you, but to a team like the Dodgers? He'd be a good investment.

Blob
07-10-2004, 09:38 AM
The offers the Sox have been reportedly offering Magglio have been more than what he's due. If he wants to go out and chase Vladimir Guerrero-type money, he's got a real surprise coming his way.

Magglio Ordonez is not worth $15 million a year. That's a traveshamockery.
I agree but, there are some teams that seem to have an endless money supply...that is what sucks.

In my heart though, I can not believe he will leave Chicago.

Evman5
07-10-2004, 09:49 AM
One thing that I do not understand is why we sign players to escalating contracts. I forgot what Maggs original extension was but I think it started at like 9 million. THe problem I see with these contracts is that in the final year the salary peaks and a player does not want to take a pay cut. In magglio's situation, he now feels that anything under 14 million a year would be disrespectful because he would be taking a paycut. I understand that Maggs is an allstar and some teams would be willing to give him what wants. I guess I am extending this to any player we sign. With the New Garcia deal we sign him to 3 years 27 mil nad the final year is 11 mil. Lets say he continues to put up his career numbers and we want to sign him to an extension. I don't think he will take less than 11 mil per year. SO why do we sign guys to these escalating contracts?:?:

Malgar 12
07-10-2004, 10:17 AM
One thing that I do not understand is why we sign players to escalating contracts. I forgot what Maggs original extension was but I think it started at like 9 million. THe problem I see with these contracts is that in the final year the salary peaks and a player does not want to take a pay cut. In magglio's situation, he now feels that anything under 14 million a year would be disrespectful because he would be taking a paycut. I understand that Maggs is an allstar and some teams would be willing to give him what wants. I guess I am extending this to any player we sign. With the New Garcia deal we sign him to 3 years 27 mil nad the final year is 11 mil. Lets say he continues to put up his career numbers and we want to sign him to an extension. I don't think he will take less than 11 mil per year. SO why do we sign guys to these escalating contracts?:?:
Because you save money by backloading a contract. Garcia gets 8,9,10, if you discount that back, Im sure the net present value is less than 9,9,9. So they both appear like $27 million dollar contracts, but they're not actually worth the same. Also it only makes sense that as a player puts in more service time, he deserves more money. Unfortunately sometimes the player gets worse as time goes by not better! Like Jamie Navarro, of course he was crap from the very beginning.:D:

idseer
07-10-2004, 10:38 AM
It's too bad that baseball's gotten to a point where you have to play games with people to keep them on your team. What ever happened to honesty and giving people their due....
:rolling:

Blob
07-10-2004, 10:43 AM
One thing that I do not understand is why we sign players to escalating contracts. I forgot what Maggs original extension was but I think it started at like 9 million. THe problem I see with these contracts is that in the final year the salary peaks and a player does not want to take a pay cut. In magglio's situation, he now feels that anything under 14 million a year would be disrespectful because he would be taking a paycut. I understand that Maggs is an allstar and some teams would be willing to give him what wants. I guess I am extending this to any player we sign. With the New Garcia deal we sign him to 3 years 27 mil nad the final year is 11 mil. Lets say he continues to put up his career numbers and we want to sign him to an extension. I don't think he will take less than 11 mil per year. SO why do we sign guys to these escalating contracts?:?:
Don't forget, one of the problems is that the Sox want an "out" clause in his last year of the contract. Meaning, if we don't think he's worth his last years pay, we can dump him.

jabrch
07-10-2004, 10:50 AM
The offers the Sox have been reportedly offering Magglio have been more than what he's due. If he wants to go out and chase Vladimir Guerrero-type money, he's got a real surprise coming his way.

Magglio Ordonez is not worth $15 million a year. That's a traveshamockery.
Ivan Rodriguez wasn't worth a 4 year deal. Maddux wasn't worth 8mm per. etc. etc. There will be a team willing to give Magglio 15mm per. The Mets are a likely candidate - as are the Dodgers and the Giants. Magglio is going to have a choice between more money elsewhere, of staying here and being a part of what we have. His call. Money, or the Sox.

Frankly, I won't blame him if he leaves. I won't shed a tear - but I won't blame him.

pearso66
07-10-2004, 10:51 AM
Don't forget, one of the problems is that the Sox want an "out" clause in his last year of the contract. Meaning, if we don't think he's worth his last years pay, we can dump him.
Well that might be the case, but I think its more in case he gets injured, or severly declines. I dont know if he can put up the type of numbers frank did, when he turns 35. Even Vlads contract has an option for the 5th year.

Mickster
07-10-2004, 10:53 AM
Well that might be the case, but I think its more in case he gets injured, or severly declines. I dont know if he can put up the type of numbers frank did, when he turns 35. Even Vlads contract has an option for the 5th year.
Vlad has an option for the 6th year, not the 5th.

pearso66
07-10-2004, 10:54 AM
My fault, I thought he only had a 5 year deal. I must have misread earlier.

Mickster
07-10-2004, 11:03 AM
Vlad:

Guerrero gets a $5 million signing bonus, $10 million this year, $11.5 million in 2005, $12.5 million in 2006, $13.5 million in 2007 and $14.5 million in 2008. The Angels have a $15 million option for 2009 with a $3 million buyout.

34 Inch Stick
07-10-2004, 01:22 PM
This Borchard call up is going to play significantly into the Sox negotiating. If Borchard takes off in the next 4 weeks, there is no doubt that the Sox will stick hard on the negotiations. In fact they may pull the offer entirely, thinking the 14 million may be spread around to keep other areas strong.

If he does poorly they know they will have to enter the market over the winter. Is there anyone who is going to give them the production to compensate for Maggs' loss while being paid significantly less?

Of course the closer it gets to the end of the season the less likely Maggs is to not test the market.

Flight #24
07-10-2004, 02:08 PM
Don't forget, one of the problems is that the Sox want an "out" clause in his last year of the contract. Meaning, if we don't think he's worth his last years pay, we can dump him.
Kenny's quote said that while they want "protection", it's also "nothing that takes away from the overall dollars", i.e. a deferral. Given MLB rules on deferrals, that means a max of 2 years. That's a minimal loss for Maggs. So if the $$ are right and he's balking over the deferral, he's looking for an excuse to leave and bust the bank (which is his right).