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View Full Version : Frank on DL Borchard called up.


DirtyWindow
07-09-2004, 05:41 PM
just announced on WSCR

IlliniSoxFan
07-09-2004, 05:42 PM
Will Borchard be in the line-up tonight, or was he literally JUST called up? I'd love to see him make his chance worthwhile...

Deadguy
07-09-2004, 05:42 PM
just announced on WSCR
Is Borchard in the lineup tonight (RF?).

na_na_na_na
07-09-2004, 05:42 PM
Was it the 15 day DL? Hopefully Frank can be back in black by September.


On the bright side let the Joe Borchard era begin.

Jjav829
07-09-2004, 05:42 PM
Will Borchard be in the line-up tonight, or was he literally JUST called up? I'd love to see him make his chance worthwhile...
He likely won't make it in time for tonight according to ESPN.

Win1ForMe
07-09-2004, 05:44 PM
So is this mean surgery? or just prolonged rest?

DirtyWindow
07-09-2004, 05:46 PM
mags is in the lineup but he's the DH. . borchard won't make it tonight. i find it wierd that with mags on the DL for 6 weeks jamie burke gets a callup. but when frank goes down borchard comes up. if borchard was here already, he might be at least decent. but now it's a craps shoot

Deadguy
07-09-2004, 05:46 PM
So is this mean surgery? or just prolonged rest?
I better mean surgery. I don't see how prolonged rest would help this injury.

hawkjt
07-09-2004, 05:48 PM
Just heard on the radio that Frank has officially gone on the DL and Joe has been called up. Some confusion in sox management right now and evidently Kenny is upset that Frank did not communicate effectively on this health issue. Borchard will not get here in time and kenny might be pissed about that. Clear as mud.

Willie is batting 9th tonite with Maggs 3rd ,Timo leading off ,Aaron batting second. Sandy batting 8th. Uribe sitting.

idseer
07-09-2004, 05:48 PM
Was it the 15 day DL? Hopefully Frank can be back in black by September.


On the bright side let the Joe Borchard era begin.
i just hope it's better than tha last 2 borchard eras.

owensmouth
07-09-2004, 05:49 PM
mags is in the lineup but he's the DH. . borchard won't make it tonight. i find it wierd that with mags on the DL for 6 weeks jamie burke gets a callup. but when frank goes down borchard comes up. if borchard was here already, he might be at least decent. but now it's a craps shoot
Four or five weeks ago Borchard didn't deserve to be called up. Come to think of it, he probably still doesn't. Time will tell.

Deadguy
07-09-2004, 05:54 PM
Some confusion in sox management right now and evidently Kenny is upset that Frank did not communicate effectively on this health issue.
Let the smear campaign begin.....:angry:

Iguana775
07-09-2004, 05:56 PM
Willie is batting 9th tonite with Maggs 3rd ,Timo leading off ,Aaron batting second. Sandy batting 8th. Uribe sitting.
lol...might as well post the whole lineup. :cool:

harwar
07-09-2004, 06:01 PM
its all so ****ing hysterical .. :?:

rmusacch
07-09-2004, 06:07 PM
Just heard on the radio that Frank has officially gone on the DL and Joe has been called up. Some confusion in sox management right now and evidently Kenny is upset that Frank did not communicate effectively on this health issue. Borchard will not get here in time and kenny might be pissed about that. Clear as mud.

Willie is batting 9th tonite with Maggs 3rd ,Timo leading off ,Aaron batting second. Sandy batting 8th. Uribe sitting.
I find it sad that the general manager takes every opportunity to rip one of the greatest players in franchise history.

Blob
07-09-2004, 06:11 PM
I just heard, it is the 15 day disable list. They are not sure if Borchard will be around for the game tonight...


All those "bring up Joe Borchard" people better hope he does well, he's got a small chance now.:D:

gosox41
07-09-2004, 06:20 PM
Four or five weeks ago Borchard didn't deserve to be called up. Come to think of it, he probably still doesn't. Time will tell.
But Jamie Burke does?


Bob

owensmouth
07-09-2004, 06:21 PM
Just heard on the radio that Frank has officially gone on the DL and Joe has been called up. Some confusion in sox management right now and evidently Kenny is upset that Frank did not communicate effectively on this health issue. Borchard will not get here in time and kenny might be pissed about that.


Sometimes KW needs to keep his opinions to himself.

gosox41
07-09-2004, 06:21 PM
I find it sad that the general manager takes every opportunity to rip one of the greatest players in franchise history.
That's the problem with KW. This is a 100% internal matter, let it stay that way. He is a fool. And for the record, if it were up to KW, Frank wouldn't even be here right now. What a great GM.


Bob

Aidan
07-09-2004, 06:21 PM
Well, Kenny Williams said earlier in the season that Borchard wasn't called up because he was the kind of guy that needed to play everday, which he wouldn't have with our glut of outfielders. I guess that would mean with Frank out he is going to start in RF while Maggs DH's and gets 100% healthy enough to play there. Then Borchard will be our DH until Frank is healthy. Otherwise, KW was talking out of his arse. Hopefully, we will see what this kid can do considering the fact that he will probably be out starting RF next season.

owensmouth
07-09-2004, 06:26 PM
But Jamie Burke does?


Bob
Different position, and as the past couple of weeks have shown, for a different reason. Burke was brought up because of the impending trade for Garcia.

Foulke You
07-09-2004, 06:57 PM
Well, Kenny Williams said earlier in the season that Borchard wasn't called up because he was the kind of guy that needed to play everday, which he wouldn't have with our glut of outfielders. I guess that would mean with Frank out he is going to start in RF while Maggs DH's and gets 100% healthy enough to play there. Then Borchard will be our DH until Frank is healthy. Otherwise, KW was talking out of his arse. Hopefully, we will see what this kid can do considering the fact that he will probably be out starting RF next season.
Isn't Borchard's natural position CF? Perhaps Borchard will play CF and Rowand/Perez will be in RF? Borchard has the legs and the arm to play in CF, might as well see if he can handle that position.

jackbrohamer
07-09-2004, 06:58 PM
Sometimes KW needs to keep his opinions to himself.

KW's public temper tantrums over the years haven't accomplished anything except to make himself look like an ass.

maurice
07-09-2004, 06:58 PM
Yeah, Burke's really killed us with that .297 AVE.

For the upteenth time, OG didn't want to start a rookie at the time Maggs went down. Instead, he wanted to give some extra ABs to Rowand and Perez (who have combined for something like a .900 OPS and multiple clutch hits since then), and use Burke as the 25th man. KW acquieced, probably because, at the time, (1) LTP was injured, (2) Reed was getting traded to the Mariners, (3) both of them were hitting .270 on a AAA team with a very small home park, and (4) Maggs had a minor knee injury and was expected back soon.

Now that the circumstances have changed, LTP gets the call. The jury is still very much out on whether he will provide any help (though it's extremely unlikely that he'll bat .297 or post a .900 OPS). Any notion that KW is hostile to LTP (a fellow two-sport Stanford guy and KW bonus baby) is ignorant.

samram
07-09-2004, 06:59 PM
Isn't Borchard's natural position CF? Perhaps Borchard will play CF and Rowand/Perez will be in RF? Borchard has the legs and the arm to play in CF, might as well see if he can handle that position.
He's been playing RF this season for the Knights.

TommyJohn
07-09-2004, 07:01 PM
i just hope it's better than tha last 2 borchard eras.
Dave Nicholson, anyone?

Kadafi311
07-09-2004, 07:09 PM
i just hope it's better than tha last 2 borchard eras.
Heh, amen.

SEALgep
07-09-2004, 07:11 PM
But Jamie Burke does?


BobYa he does, he's been doing good for us. Haven't you been watching?

Basten
07-09-2004, 07:17 PM
i just hope it's better than tha last 2 borchard eras.
LMAO.

I've had nightmares involving Borchard's lousy pitch selection and his long, slow swing the last two stints.

Hopefully this time around he is actually, well...good.

MisterB
07-09-2004, 07:19 PM
Yeah, Burke's really killed us with that .297 AVE.

For the upteenth time, OG didn't want to start a rookie at the time Maggs went down. Instead, he wanted to give some extra ABs to Rowand and Perez (who have combined for something like a .900 OPS and multiple clutch hits since then), and use Burke as the 25th man. KW acquieced, probably because, at the time, (1) LTP was injured, (2) Reed was getting traded to the Mariners, (3) both of them were hitting .270 on a AAA team with a very small home park, and (4) Maggs had a minor knee injury and was expected back soon.
Also add:

(5) With interleague games coming up Ozzie also figured he might need more flexibility to swap out catchers on double-switches and such.

Basten
07-09-2004, 07:21 PM
Isn't Borchard's natural position CF? Perhaps Borchard will play CF and Rowand/Perez will be in RF? Borchard has the legs and the arm to play in CF, might as well see if he can handle that position.
Please tell me you're joking.

Grobber33
07-09-2004, 07:23 PM
I find it sad that the general manager takes every opportunity to rip one of the greatest players in franchise history.
Frank is the greatest HITTER on franchise history,but when you have Joe Jackson,Looie Aparicio,Carlton Fisk,Nellie Fox,and Luke Appling to name just five,,,can't call him the Greatest PLAYER the Sox have had. Bet Lip would agree with me on this.

Basten
07-09-2004, 07:27 PM
Ya he does, he's been doing good for us. Haven't you been watching?
Yeah, those two dropped relay throws in big situations were just grrreeaaat.

And that 'Close and Late' OPS of 429 is just fabulous.

JRIG
07-09-2004, 07:28 PM
Ya he does, he's been doing good for us. Haven't you been watching?After a fast start, Burke is 5 for his last 25 (.200) with 1 walk and 1 extra base hit.

In fact, 6 of his 11 hits, 2 of his 3 extra base hits, and 5 of his 6 RBI have come in 2 games in mid-June.

Deadguy
07-09-2004, 07:33 PM
Frank is the greatest HITTER on franchise history,but when you have Joe Jackson,Looie Aparicio,Carlton Fisk,Nellie Fox,and Luke Appling to name just five,,,can't call him the Greatest PLAYER the Sox have had. Bet Lip would agree with me on this.
Sabermetrics seem to make the argument that for career value, only Eddie Collins and Luke Appling are better players, with Thomas close to Appling. When you consider just time spent with the White Sox, Thomas might beat out Collins, since his best years were with Philadelphia.

Of course, we can't forget KW's fabulous career as a player for the White Sox.

JRIG
07-09-2004, 07:38 PM
Frank is the greatest HITTER on franchise history,but when you have Joe Jackson,Looie Aparicio,Carlton Fisk,Nellie Fox,and Luke Appling to name just five,,,can't call him the Greatest PLAYER the Sox have had. Bet Lip would agree with me on this.
Based on the fact that Sammy Sosa doesn't really play "defense" either, does tha mean he's not the greatest player in Chicago Cubs history?

Aidan
07-09-2004, 07:45 PM
Isn't Borchard's natural position CF? Perhaps Borchard will play CF and Rowand/Perez will be in RF? Borchard has the legs and the arm to play in CF, might as well see if he can handle that position.While Borchard does have some speed, I have read that he is better suited as a corner outfielder in the majors since he is 6'5", 220 pounds. He plays some CF for the Charlotte Knights but they usually use him as a RF. Although, he may be able to play some CF in the Cell in a pinch because our CF isn't that tough. I still see him as our starting RF next season when and if Maggs is gone.

jabrch
07-09-2004, 07:50 PM
Let the smear campaign begin.....:angry:
Poor Frank - the worlds out to get him.

jabrch
07-09-2004, 07:51 PM
I find it sad that the general manager takes every opportunity to rip one of the greatest players in franchise history.
poor poor Frank

depy48
07-09-2004, 07:58 PM
But Jamie Burke does?


Bob
burke can catch, play outfield, and can be used as an emergency first/thirdbaseman. can borchard do all that? plus ozzie wanted three catchers for the interleague games.

Basten
07-09-2004, 08:01 PM
While Borchard does have some speed, I have read that he is better suited as a corner outfielder in the majors since he is 6'5", 220 pounds. He plays some CF for the Charlotte Knights but they usually use him as a RF. Although, he may be able to play some CF in the Cell in a pinch because our CF isn't that tough. I still see him as our starting RF next season when and if Maggs is gone.
Borchard cannot play CF - when you see enough would-be lineouts go to the wall and deep fly balls - fall on the edge of the track, you'll understand.

The only way Bochard can cover ground is if you compare him to Jurassik Carl or Lance Berkman (2 years ago).

Aidan
07-09-2004, 08:05 PM
Borchard cannot play CF - when you see enough would-be lineouts go to the wall and deep fly balls - fall on the edge of the track, you'll understand.

The only way Bochard can cover ground is if you compare him to Jurassik Carl or Lance Berkman (2 years ago).I said "in a pinch" he could play some CF in the Cell since our CF isn't that tough. I also said that he is projected as a corner outfielder, specifically a RF.

By the way, "Jurassic Carl" only had 2 errors in CF for the White Sox in 66 games played. Do your homework...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=5073
The Cell's CF is alot easier to play than most park's CF.

Daver
07-09-2004, 08:11 PM
Borchard cannot play CF - when you see enough would-be lineouts go to the wall and deep fly balls - fall on the edge of the track, you'll understand.

The only way Bochard can cover ground is if you compare him to Jurassik Carl or Lance Berkman (2 years ago).
I've seen plenty of Joe in CF, and you must be watching a different player.

Aidan
07-09-2004, 08:24 PM
I've seen plenty of Joe in CF, and you must be watching a different player.Yeah, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. :rolleyes:

Basten
07-09-2004, 08:36 PM
I've seen plenty of Joe in CF, and you must be watching a different player.
I am watching the same Borchard who despite good speed is a very mediocre baserunner. The same Borchard who despite having a QB arm was out-thrown by Willie Harris in his last stint in the bigs.

And yes, the same Borchard with a below-average range and instincts in CF. That Borchard.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But Borchard is up, we'll see his mad CF skillz soon enough. :smile:

SomebodyToldMe
07-09-2004, 08:39 PM
frank is on the DL...so if he WAS the winner in the 32nd man voting, he wouldn't have been able to play.

and you guys said that paulie was a wasted vote.

Basten
07-09-2004, 08:44 PM
I said "in a pinch" he could play some CF in the Cell since our CF isn't that tough. I also said that he is projected as a corner outfielder, specifically a RF.

By the way, "Jurassic Carl" only had 2 errors in CF for the White Sox in 66 games played. Do your homework...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=5073
The Cell's CF is alot easier to play than most park's CF.
So is that how you assess a CF's (or other positions for that matter) defensive prowess/worth - by the fielding %?

I guess Biggio is a much better CF than Mark Kotsay, then.....:rolleyes:

pissonthecubs
07-09-2004, 09:54 PM
just curious, how many times has Borchard been called up? is he getting close to the limit of how many times he can be called up and then sent back down. when Frank gets back in the line up, when ever that may be, will he be sent back down or will it be ross gload?

TimoPerez
07-09-2004, 10:07 PM
Does this mean that Timo and Rowand will platoon in center?

RKMeibalane
07-09-2004, 10:11 PM
Frank is the greatest HITTER on franchise history,but when you have Joe Jackson,Looie Aparicio,Carlton Fisk,Nellie Fox,and Luke Appling to name just five,,,can't call him the Greatest PLAYER the Sox have had. Bet Lip would agree with me on this.
Let's not start this crap again. The only reason Frank is a DH is because Manuel and Guillen were/are too stupid to give him more playing time at first base.

RKMeibalane
07-09-2004, 10:14 PM
frank is on the DL...so if he WAS the winner in the 32nd man voting, he wouldn't have been able to play.

and you guys said that paulie was a wasted vote. This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. None of us who voted for Frank knew that he was hurt. Nobody outside the Sox organization knew anything until Wednesday, because Guillen and Williams were trying to keep things under wraps. How the hell were we supposed to know that this was going to happen?

Another WSI member and I were having a discussion earlier about people making stupid comments. This definitely qualifies.

SomebodyToldMe
07-09-2004, 10:23 PM
ok...if frank would have won, what would have happened? he would have been put on the dl, because he's BEEN hurt, and because of it, he wouldn't be on the all-star team anymore...and seeing how he's not on the team, we would still have one representative...it makes sense.

i'm still all P.O.ed because paulie deserved it, i guess.

OurBitchinMinny
07-09-2004, 10:28 PM
Let's not start this crap again. The only reason Frank is a DH is because Manuel and Guillen were/are too stupid to give him more playing time at first base.and he cant field worth **** and throws like a pre pubescent girl

OurBitchinMinny
07-09-2004, 10:29 PM
frank is on the DL...so if he WAS the winner in the 32nd man voting, he wouldn't have been able to play.

and you guys said that paulie was a wasted vote.
I voted for PK...He deserved it more injury or not

owensmouth
07-09-2004, 10:43 PM
One thing about this boot that Frank has to wear for the next three weeks. If it doesn't work, the Big Hurt is essentially out for the season.

Daver
07-09-2004, 10:43 PM
and he cant field worth **** and throws like a pre pubescent girl
I would be willing to bet that given the chance, you would look far worse.


No one bitched about Frank playing first for the ten years he put up all star numbers at that position.

OEO Magglio
07-09-2004, 10:54 PM
and he cant field worth **** and throws like a pre pubescent girlFrank is a solid fielder he just can't throw. Frank can hold his own at first base but if you want to live by the 3-6-3 double play, well I'll let PHG handle that one.:D:

Johnny Mostil
07-09-2004, 11:20 PM
Based on the fact that Sammy Sosa doesn't really play "defense" either, does tha mean he's not the greatest player in Chicago Cubs history?FWIW and IMHO, I don't necessarily consider Thomas the greatest player in White Sox history, but he's certainly one of the greatest (precisely as rmusacch originally claimed), and he's much closer to the title of THE greatest than Sosa is to being the greatest player in the history of that other team.

Lip Man 1
07-09-2004, 11:22 PM
I don't know what the latest info is on Frank or how accurate it is (It seems to change by the day...just ask Kenny Williams)
But on the WGN-TV sports tonight with Rich King he said Thomas will be out of action for at least three weeks with 'tendonitis and inflammation in his ankle.' (Sorry about the spelling!) He didn't say anything about a walking boot and also added that the Sox hope the rest will take care of the problem. Then he mention that Borchard is up and went to Ozzie talking about Joe.

Lip

owensmouth
07-09-2004, 11:56 PM
I don't know what the latest info is on Frank or how accurate it is (It seems to change by the day...just ask Kenny Williams)
But on the WGN-TV sports tonight with Rich King he said Thomas will be out of action for at least three weeks with 'tendonitis and inflammation in his ankle.' (Sorry about the spelling!) He didn't say anything about a walking boot and also added that the Sox hope the rest will take care of the problem. Then he mention that Borchard is up and went to Ozzie talking about Joe.

LipGot this off the article on ChicagoWhiteSox/MLB.com: "A rest period of 2-3 weeks has been prescribed for Thomas, and he will be fitted with a special brace."


http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/team_logo/18x18-cws.gif Frank Thomas / DH http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/graphics/line-up-left.gifhttp://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/etopps/ph_123245.jpg (http://www.etopps.com/promotions/landing.asp?1=141&2=155&3=www.etopps.com&5=123245)
Born: 05/27/68
Height: 6'5"
Weight: 275 lbs
Bats: R / Throws: R

More info:
Player page (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/team/cws_player_bio.jsp?frame=cws&playerid=123245)
Stats (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=123245) | Splits (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_splits.jsp?playerID=123245&statType=1)
Team Site (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=cws)
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/graphics/line-up-right.gifhttp://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/graphics/etopps-bot-cws-thomas-frank.gif (http://www.etopps.com/promotions/landing.asp?1=141&2=155&3=www.etopps.com&5=123245)
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/graphics/line-up-bottom.gif "If the time off eases the pain, then it's up to Thomas to decide if he can play on. If the answer is no, then Thomas will undergo what would most likely be season-ending surgery."










Here's the link
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20040709&content_id=793934&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

voodoochile
07-10-2004, 12:23 AM
Frank is the greatest HITTER on franchise history,but when you have Joe Jackson,Looie Aparicio,Carlton Fisk,Nellie Fox,and Luke Appling to name just five,,,can't call him the Greatest PLAYER the Sox have had. Bet Lip would agree with me on this.Les, I expect this from the rubes, but come on...

At every single postion on the baseball diamond except the pitchers mound and catcher, hitting is 80% of the reason you select the player. When it comes to positions like 1B and DH (and really can we get over the general whiney attitude that DH is NOT a true position - it is one, it's just not a defensive position) the number is closer to 99.999%.

Frank's the greatest player to ever wear a Sox uniform. Joe is automatically excluded because of his at minimum guilt by association with the 1919 team, IMO. The other players you mention are great players, but Frank is arguably the greatest right handed hitter in MLB history. He is definitely top 5 no matter what way you slice it or choose to look at it.

That's it. He's the man. People forget what I consider to be the most amazing stat from Frank's career. Early on (and it may have been from the beginning), Frank went something like 3 years and NEVER went 8 consecutive at bats without reaching base in some manner. It may even be longer. I cannot recall. I just remember that after a while it became common knowledge. It went on for another 1.5 years after people became aware of it, IIRC.

I admit, I'm as biased as they come when it comes to the big man, but I don't see how this is even a debate...:cool:

jeremyb1
07-10-2004, 01:18 AM
Let's not start this crap again. The only reason Frank is a DH is because Manuel and Guillen were/are too stupid to give him more playing time at first base.

And because he lacks the ability to throw due to a college football injury, and because he missed a season after injurying his triceps at 1B and because he's requested numerous times not to play first while Paully is on the record as preferring 1B because he feels it keeps him in the game more.

Man Soo Lee
07-10-2004, 01:36 AM
And because he lacks the ability to throw due to a college football injury, and because he missed a season after injurying his triceps at 1B and because he's requested numerous times not to play first while Paully is on the record as preferring 1B because he feels it keeps him in the game more.
And because this may be the second time in the last six years that Frank's season has ended early because of an ankle injury even without the wear and tear of playing defense regularly.

StepsInSC
07-10-2004, 01:41 AM
but Frank is arguably the greatest right handed hitter in MLB history.
THANK YOU!

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm constantly getting into arguments with friends over my opinion on this matter.

gosox41
07-10-2004, 03:34 AM
Ya he does, he's been doing good for us. Haven't you been watching?
Inm a very small number of at bats. If the Sox were so high on him he'd be catching a lot more.

I think he's hit over his head. Way over his head.


Bob

California Sox
07-10-2004, 03:43 AM
The Sox got rid of Reed and appear willing to let Maggs go because they believe in Borchard. It will be interesting to see what kind of player he'll be. I see Jeromy Burnitz as a best-case scenario, and I don't mean that as a compliment.

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2004, 03:46 AM
Yeah, Burke's really killed us with that .297 AVE.

For the upteenth time, OG didn't want to start a rookie at the time Maggs went down.OG? Man, it's hard to keep up on this board.

Nellie_Fox
07-10-2004, 03:47 AM
Frank is the greatest HITTER on franchise history,but when you have Joe Jackson,Looie Aparicio,Carlton Fisk,Nellie Fox,and Luke Appling to name just five,,,can't call him the Greatest PLAYER the Sox have had. Bet Lip would agree with me on this.I know I would.

TaylorStSox
07-10-2004, 05:19 AM
IMO, Frank, Piazza and Ramirez are the best RH hitters of this generation. Really, all of them rank among the greatest hitters of all time. I'm glad that I've watched his whole career. Frank's command of the zone is just beautiful. He knows zones, pitches, and pitchers. It's really just awesome to watch. Of those 3, he has the ugliest swing. With that said, I'd rather have him then any of the other 2.



*edit* Vlad isn't included due to longevity.

samram
07-10-2004, 08:22 AM
IMO, Frank, Piazza and Ramirez are the best RH hitters of this generation. Really, all of them rank among the greatest hitters of all time. I'm glad that I've watched his whole career. Frank's command of the zone is just beautiful. He knows zones, pitches, and pitchers. It's really just awesome to watch. Of those 3, he has the ugliest swing. With that said, I'd rather have him then any of the other 2.



*edit* Vlad isn't included due to longevity.
I think A-Rod, who's in his ninth year, should be included.

SSN721
07-10-2004, 08:45 AM
I think A-Rod, who's in his ninth year, should be included.

That I would agree with. ANd I also have to say despite being a KW fan I am very dissapointed in the way he has handled the PR of this situation. THe one thing that I never understood with KW is his apparent dislike of Frank. And I think I would also agree that he is the bestplayer in Sox history.

Realist
07-10-2004, 09:24 AM
I ain't read the rest of this thread, but the first thing I thought was, "If Borchard shows up Maggs, we've got ourselves a very pleasant and controversial dilemna". I just hope it happens.

Stay positive until we have no reason to be, Sox Fans. If ya think about it... it's all we really have. Think about it. Shoeless Joe played on the last team of our TRUE heros. Ugggh.

1. Keep busting balls, Ozzie (you prick :D: ).
2. Slow down the friggin' long balls, Coop (what is it about "pitch 'em inside" don't they understand?) -- you listening, Elo?
3. Get us Kendall, Kenny.
4. We promise to keep eating churros, Eddie Einhorn (if that REALLY is your real name).

It's only half way through the season and I wish I took Noam Chomsky more seriously. I'm so exhausted I couldn't have cared less when the Flubs swept us. Screw them and their mock "Bozo" uniforms.

True story: Some little cutie yuppie girl came in the bar that I work in 4 blocks north of the Urinal on Thursday nite and asked me if I'd wear a "Cubs" jersey if she bought if for me. I told her that even if she "bought me the matching red rubber ball nose and floppy shoes, I wouldn't wear it" (I was wearing a "Sox" t-shirt at the time).

Greg Walker has his work cut out for him with Borchard. Get him to relax and be "one with the ball", Greg. Baseball is a Zen game, not a steamroller game. See the ball.... hit the ball... See the ball.... hit the ball.... SEE THE BALL!!

Ahhh... ya gotta love Jameson. :drool:

Go Sox!!:drunken:

RKMeibalane
07-10-2004, 01:55 PM
ok...if frank would have won, what would have happened? he would have been put on the dl, because he's BEEN hurt, and because of it, he wouldn't be on the all-star team anymore...and seeing how he's not on the team, we would still have one representative...it makes sense.

i'm still all P.O.ed because paulie deserved it, i guess.
Yes, Frank has been hurt. The problem is that nobody outside of the Sox organization knew how serious the injury was. None of us knew that he was going to be placed on the disabled while the voting was going. If we had known, we would have voted for Konerko to get him into the game.

RKMeibalane
07-10-2004, 01:58 PM
And because this may be the second time in the last six years that Frank's season has ended early because of an ankle injury even without the wear and tear of playing defense regularly.
As recently as last August, Frank said that he wanted to play first base more often, yet Manuel insisted on keeping him at DH, in spite of the fact that Paul Konerko was barely a servicable player last season. And, as Daver pointed, I don't recall anyone bitching and moaning about Frank's defense in 1992. The double-standards that exist around here are sickening. I just cannot believe that people who claim to be Sox fans are so willing to shoot down the greatest player to ever wear a White Sox uniform.

Wow... just wow.

RKMeibalane
07-10-2004, 02:02 PM
And because he lacks the ability to throw due to a college football injury, and because he missed a season after injurying his triceps at 1B and because he's requested numerous times not to play first while Paully is on the record as preferring 1B because he feels it keeps him in the game more.
Oh, so let's just ignore the fact that Frank Thomas puts up MVP numbers when he's at first base. Let's conveniently overlook the fact that during Paul Konerko's best season- 2002- his numbers were only slightly better than Frank's numbers during his worst year- also 2002.

I've never seen so many people who have their priorities backwards. Frank Thomas can do more to help the Chicago White Sox win baseball games than Paul Konerko, and he can do much of this as a first baseman. But, instead of winning games, people are worried about the 3-6-3 double-play. Sad.

owensmouth
07-10-2004, 03:02 PM
Oh, so let's just ignore the fact that Frank Thomas puts up MVP numbers when he's at first base. Let's conveniently overlook the fact that during Paul Konerko's best season- 2002- his numbers were only slightly better than Frank's numbers during his worst year- also 2002.

I've never seen so many people who have their priorities backwards. Frank Thomas can do more to help the Chicago White Sox win baseball games than Paul Konerko, and he can do much of this as a first baseman. But, instead of winning games, people are worried about the 3-6-3 double-play. Sad.
What were Frank's numbers last year while playing first? What about the year before? Don't quote me numbers from ten years ago, they no longer apply. Frank is no longer 25 to 29 years old, and he doesn't hit like he used to. Giving him a glove isn't going to raise his batting average 60 points. Tell me the differences year by year, not over his career.

Deadguy
07-10-2004, 03:11 PM
And because he lacks the ability to throw due to a college football injury, and because he missed a season after injurying his triceps at 1B and because he's requested numerous times not to play first while Paully is on the record as preferring 1B because he feels it keeps him in the game more.
Jeff Bagwell can't throw a lick either, the triceps injury was a freak occurrence, and PK is a selfish prick.

OEO Magglio
07-10-2004, 03:14 PM
What were Frank's numbers last year while playing first? What about the year before? Don't quote me numbers from ten years ago, they no longer apply. Frank is no longer 25 to 29 years old, and he doesn't hit like he used to. Giving him a glove isn't going to raise his batting average 60 points. Tell me the differences year by year, not over his career (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=502,28012355,whitesoxinteractiv e.com,1).Really?? because it sure did help last year. These are his numbers playing first last year: .352 ba, .487 obp, .725 slugging, 1.2 ops. Numbers while dh'ing: .252 ba, .371 obp, .532 slugging, .9 ops.

MisterB
07-10-2004, 03:21 PM
What were Frank's numbers last year while playing first? What about the year before? Don't quote me numbers from ten years ago, they no longer apply. Frank is no longer 25 to 29 years old, and he doesn't hit like he used to. Giving him a glove isn't going to raise his batting average 60 points. Tell me the differences year by year, not over his career.
2004 (so far)
as DH: .267/.434/.538
as 1B: .400/.500/1.067

2003
as DH:.252/.371/.532
as 1B: .352/.487/.725

2002
as DH: .253/.361/.472
as 1B: .308/.444/.615

can't find 1B/DH splits for Frank from further back, but you get the idea....

OEO Magglio
07-10-2004, 03:27 PM
2004 (so far)
as DH: .267/.434/.538
as 1B: .400/.500/1.067

2003
as DH:.252/.371/.532
as 1B: .352/.487/.725

2002
as DH: .253/.361/.472
as 1B: .308/.444/.615

can't find 1B/DH splits for Frank from further back, but you get the idea....Beat you to it.:neener:

Deadguy
07-10-2004, 03:27 PM
2004 (so far)
as DH: .267/.434/.538
as 1B: .400/.500/1.067

2003
as DH:.252/.371/.532
as 1B: .352/.487/.725

2002
as DH: .253/.361/.472
as 1B: .308/.444/.615

can't find 1B/DH splits for Frank from further back, but you get the idea....
Here's the splits from farther back (1991 and 2001 are the only years where he performed better as a DH):

Stat AB AVE OBP SLG OPS
1994:
1st 351 370 494 769 1263
DH 47 234 373 447 820

1995:
1st 316 329 478 687 1163
DH 177 271 411 463 874

1996:
1st 527 349 459 626 1085
DH 0

1997:
1st 355 363 467 662 1129
DH 175 314 435 509 944

1998:
1st 53 302 406 547 953
DH 532 261 378 474 852

1999:
1st 188 346 422 553 975
DH 295 281 412 424 836

2000:
1st 113 354 432 761 1193
DH 467 321 436 587 1023

2001:
1st 9 000 100 000 100
DH 58 259 353 517 870

Jerome
07-10-2004, 04:36 PM
*** does Rowand have to do to earn the CF job? Unless we trade for Beltran, Rowand should be the starter. Platoon Timo/Borchard in right. And Frank is without a doubt the greatest player in White Sox history.

Man Soo Lee
07-10-2004, 04:47 PM
And, as Daver pointed, I don't recall anyone bitching and moaning about Frank's defense in 1992. The double-standards that exist around here are sickening. I just cannot believe that people who claim to be Sox fans are so willing to shoot down the greatest player to ever wear a White Sox uniform. My post didn't criticize his defense, use any double-standard, or attempt to "shoot down" Frank.

Frank is capable of putting up MVP-type numbers anytime he's healthy, regardless of whether he's at 1B or DH (see 2000, 2003, 2004). Despite not playing defense regularly, this will be the third year in the last six that he has missed significant time. A fourth year (2002) was likely affected by injury.

My concern is with keeping our most important offensive player in the lineup, not with turning a 3-6-3 double play once a month.

maurice
07-12-2004, 02:38 PM
OG? Man, it's hard to keep up on this board.
That's "Ozzie Guillen," for those scoring at home. Typing "OG" saves me the finger-breaking effort of typing ten extra letters. :D:

maurice
07-12-2004, 02:47 PM
The original complaint was: "Burke will kill us, so OG shouldn't play him."

The response was: "He'll be fine, barely playing as the 25th man until Maggs returns. Rowand and Perez will be adequate replacements for Maggs until then."

Now, after Burke, Rowand, and Perez have been "fine" and failed to "kill us," the new complaint is: "OG has barely played Burke, so he must not be high on him."

Nobody ever was "high on him." That's why he was the 25th man. Now that Maggs is back, all the facts are in, and the complainers lost the argument. Time to move on.

If you want to start a new argument that Alomar / Burke / Davis are a crappy catching corps and should be upgraded now that Olivo is gone, go right ahead. The argument already has been made in other threads, and I don't think anybody here opposed it.

Dadawg_77
07-12-2004, 02:48 PM
*** does Rowand have to do to earn the CF job? Unless we trade for Beltran, Rowand should be the starter. Platoon Timo/Borchard in right. And Frank is without a doubt the greatest player in White Sox history.
Hit righthanders. He struggles against them big time.

Flight #24
07-12-2004, 02:52 PM
Hit righthanders. He struggles against them big time.
FWIW, ARow's avg v. righties is up to.263. About aonth ago it was about .253. If he can get it up over .275, he's a serviceable CF, esp since he's cheap.

Dadawg_77
07-12-2004, 02:58 PM
FWIW, ARow's avg v. righties is up to.263. About aonth ago it was about .253. If he can get it up over .275, he's a serviceable CF, esp since he's cheap.
I am not saying the guy isn't a serviceable CF just serviceable isn't enough to guarantee your name in the lineup every day.