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View Full Version : More Willie Harris please...


Kilroy
07-09-2004, 12:52 AM
Willie scoring from first on Timo's basehit was the play of the game. He also came to the plate in his PH at-bat with a plan and made something happen. Ozzie needs to get him on the field one way or another, and when he gets on base, he needs to run.

lowesox
07-09-2004, 01:08 AM
I agree he needs to run more. I wonder how many SBs he'd have if he ran as frequently as guys like Carl Crawford do?

I really wouldn't mind him getting thrown out. I love agressive ball.

JDub35
07-09-2004, 01:10 AM
I agree, but until today he hasn't had many good at bats. That was excellent of Willie to come off the bench and be clutch today! Im hoping this comeback win can get things turned around before the All-Star break! :bandance:

BainesHOF
07-09-2004, 01:28 AM
You must be joking.

Harris is a fast guy who doesn't use his speed so he might as well run like Konerko in most cases.

Uribe needs to play six days a week at second base.

JDub35
07-09-2004, 01:40 AM
You must be joking.

Harris is a fast guy who doesn't use his speed so he might as well run like Konerko in most cases.

Uribe needs to play six days a week at second base.
This is true, Willie isn't the greatest baserunner. Hes very bad at judging his lead as well as his jump. If he could get that down, he would be an excellent base stealer.

Blueprint1
07-09-2004, 03:25 AM
Harris can't hit. You can't walk or hit you cant steal anything.

Kilroy
07-09-2004, 09:04 AM
Harris can't hit. You can't walk or hit you cant steal anything.
Strange. He sure looked like he could hit in April, May, and a good part of June. Seems as tho he started to struggle when his PT became more spotty because Aaron and Uribe and Valentin were playing well, so they started platooning them. While Crede dropped down well below the Mendoza line and still played every day.

I'd rather see the Sox putting the pressure on the other team with people running than waiting around for big hits. Rowand, Harris, Valentin and Lee all should be looking to steal when the situation allows for it, but right now, no one is looking to steal. The way the Angels played against us is how I want to see us play.

Palehose13
07-09-2004, 10:06 AM
Agreed! We need more Willie Harris!

Unfortunately, I understand that with Rowand "hot" recently it was hard to find a spot for him. Still with Magglio out I would have put Rowand in RF and Harris in CF. I would much rather have Harris in the line up and on the field than Gload!

Dadawg_77
07-09-2004, 10:06 AM
Harris can't hit. You can't walk or hit you cant steal anything.
The problem is the guy you want to play six days a week, can't either.

Dadawg_77
07-09-2004, 10:09 AM
I think Harris should start at second over Uribe. Ozzie fell in love with Uribe when he was hot, not a bad move, but now that Juan is colder then a polar bear's toe nail, he is still in love with him, that is a mistake. Harris seems to play better when he gets constisant at bats. Thus with Uribe month plus slump, I think Harris should play at least half the week at second.

mcfish
07-09-2004, 10:36 AM
Agreed! We need more Willie Harris!

Unfortunately, I understand that with Rowand "hot" recently it was hard to find a spot for him. Still with Magglio out I would have put Rowand in RF and Harris in CF. I would much rather have Harris in the line up and on the field than Gload!
Timo in right. Not Gload or Harris.

Until Harris shows that he is willing to run when he actually makes it to first base, he is mostly useless to the Sox. He has only 9 steals this year in 11 attempts. Aaron has that many steals. I would love for Willie to be useful to us, but with his slump and inability to run on the basepaths. he's not.

Also, any talk of Harris should play over Uribe because of a pinch hit single yesterday must be forgetting that Uribe happened to be the one to get the game winning single.

Palehose13
07-09-2004, 10:40 AM
Timo in right. Not Gload or Harris.

Ok, but I still think Harris should have seen more PT the past few weeks. A platoon of Perez/Harris/Rowand in CF/RF would have been fine with me. Anything to keep Gload where he should be...on the bench waiting to PH.

Terminated
07-09-2004, 11:48 AM
I do miss seeing Willie, but he needs to try to steal. I believe Aaron Rowand has as many stolen bases as Harris does. I donít know, but Willie needs some advice from Valentin. Iíve noticed Jose knows whether the pitcher will try to attempt to get the ball at 1st base or throw it to the catcher and that is why heís been successful when it comes to stealing bases.

JRIG
07-09-2004, 12:20 PM
Yes. With the offense struggling, what we need most in the lineup is a guy who is 4 for his last 44 and has 2 extra base hits since May 11, a span of 129 at bats.

Willie is best utilized after somebody else gets on first base. Pinch running should be his official position.

Wealz
07-09-2004, 12:34 PM
Willie scoring from first on Timo's basehit was the play of the game. He also came to the plate in his PH at-bat with a plan and made something happen. Ozzie needs to get him on the field one way or another, and when he gets on base, he needs to run.
As long as Willie Harris doesn't have a bat in his hands when he's on the field I like this idea.

34 Inch Stick
07-09-2004, 12:35 PM
I think Harris should start at second over Uribe. Ozzie fell in love with Uribe when he was hot, not a bad move, but now that Juan is colder then a polar bear's toe nail, he is still in love with him, that is a mistake. Harris seems to play better when he gets constisant at bats. Thus with Uribe month plus slump, I think Harris should play at least half the week at second.
Anyone else noticing a pattern of preference on the part of Ozzie for Spanish speaking players over non Spanish speaking players. He did the same thing with Diaz over Rauch when Rauch clearly had a superior performance and is the more veteran of the two. I may be wrong though because Gload gets playing time and he is an absolute defensive liability.

space_monkey
07-09-2004, 01:18 PM
Anyone else noticing a pattern of preference on the part of Ozzie for Spanish speaking players over non Spanish speaking players. He did the same thing with Diaz over Rauch when Rauch clearly had a superior performance and is the more veteran of the two. I may be wrong though because Gload gets playing time and he is an absolute defensive liability.rauch also screwed up when he left early in that game

space_monkey
07-09-2004, 01:27 PM
You must be joking.

Harris is a fast guy who doesn't use his speed so he might as well run like Konerko in most cases.

Uribe needs to play six days a week at second base.

Willie: .270/.347 in 222 ABs

Juan: .280/.334 in 296 ABs

CubKilla
07-09-2004, 01:31 PM
He also came to the plate in his PH at-bat with a plan and made something happen.
I wouldn't call swinging at the first-pitch a plan.

And, as other posters have pointed out, he's the only player in baseball who can score from 1B on a 3-2 single that's momentarily bobbled who cannot steal 2B. :angry:

mcfish
07-09-2004, 01:34 PM
Willie: .270/.347 in 222 ABs

Juan: .280/.334 in 296 ABsHarris still doesn't use his speed, so he still might as well be Paulie.

Willie: 9 SB / 2 CS
Juan: 7 SB / 4 CS

On Tuesday, Willie got on base twice and never even took a large lead. He loses a lot of value with his unwillingness to run.

space_monkey
07-09-2004, 01:37 PM
Harris still doesn't use his speed, so he still might as well be Paulie.

Willie: 9 SB / 2 CS
Juan: 7 SB / 4 CS

On Tuesday, Willie got on base twice and never even took a large lead. He loses a lot of value with his unwillingness to run.I totally agree that willie has to utilize his speed way more often, perhaps even to the point of being over aggressive. Im just trying to show that while everyone one is busy bashing willie, hes at least putting up comparable numbers to uribe, who seems to have a solid base of support here, despite his recent cold streak, which coincides somewhat with willie's

Troupis
07-09-2004, 01:58 PM
The only justification I can see to play Willie Harris this month is to increase his trade potential, but since winning is more impotrant, Uribe is a clear cut choice for a number of reasons.

#1 - Extra Base Hits:The statistics don't lie here. Uribe has 34 extra base hits to Willie's 9; including 11 homeruns to Willie's zero. Might as well put Rey Ordonez in if we want that power, oh wait, Diaz took care of making even Rey better in that category. Willie can steal all he wants but getting 2 extra steals to Uribe but 25 less extra base hits means Uribe is getting a lot further along the base paths. Which is why URIBE HAS 143 TOTAL BASES OVER DOUBLE WILLIE'S 70. Which is why...

2 - Slugging Percentage: Willie: .315 (how many MLB players have a higher avg. than that? ouch) to Juan's .483.

#3 - Wearing Down Pitchers: Although Willie has more walks (something Uribe can be taught to do or given the sign to do) Uribe's ugly swing does in fact foul off lots of pitches.

#4 - Defense: Does anyone recall why Kenny Williams brought Uribe over, for his soft glove. Juan has shown great range for someone who has to cover basically the whole right side with Konerko's range.

I would really like to see Willie relegated to pinch hitting (bunting) and pinch running.

What would make me happier is if he were traded ala Ray Durham. We couldn't get shafted more than we were with Ray and many teams would gladly take a speedy player like Willie for a relief pitcher with closer stuff.

Dadawg_77
07-09-2004, 02:19 PM
Harris still doesn't use his speed, so he still might as well be Paulie.

Willie: 9 SB / 2 CS
Juan: 7 SB / 4 CS

On Tuesday, Willie got on base twice and never even took a large lead. He loses a lot of value with his unwillingness to run.
I amy be one of the few here, but I like the fact he doesn't steal much.

mcfish
07-09-2004, 02:23 PM
I amy be one of the few here, but I like the fact he doesn't steal much.
Then what value do you think he brings to the team?

His fielding is fine, but not better than Juan. His hitting is inconsistent at best. He constantly attempts to bunt his way on base, but I honestly don't remember if it has ever worked. He isn't even all that great a bunter - and he's really bad when he fails at bunting twice and has to try to swing with 2 strikes.

Dadawg_77
07-09-2004, 02:23 PM
The only justification I can see to play Willie Harris this month is to increase his trade potential, but since winning is more impotrant, Uribe is a clear cut choice for a number of reasons.

#1 - Extra Base Hits:The statistics don't lie here. Uribe has 34 extra base hits to Willie's 9; including 11 homeruns to Willie's zero. Might as well put Rey Ordonez in if we want that power, oh wait, Diaz took care of making even Rey better in that category. Willie can steal all he wants but getting 2 extra steals to Uribe but 25 less extra base hits means Uribe is getting a lot further along the base paths. Which is why URIBE HAS 143 TOTAL BASES OVER DOUBLE WILLIE'S 70. Which is why...

2 - Slugging Percentage: Willie: .315 (how many MLB players have a higher avg. than that? ouch) to Juan's .483.

#3 - Wearing Down Pitchers: Although Willie has more walks (something Uribe can be taught to do or given the sign to do) Uribe's ugly swing does in fact foul off lots of pitches.

#4 - Defense: Does anyone recall why Kenny Williams brought Uribe over, for his soft glove. Juan has shown great range for someone who has to cover basically the whole right side with Konerko's range.

I would really like to see Willie relegated to pinch hitting (bunting) and pinch running.

What would make me happier is if he were traded ala Ray Durham. We couldn't get shafted more than we were with Ray and many teams would gladly take a speedy player like Willie for a relief pitcher with closer stuff.
Well I disagree what you lose in pop you will gain more in OPB with Harris.

Kilroy
07-09-2004, 02:49 PM
I wouldn't call swinging at the first-pitch a plan.

And, as other posters have pointed out, he's the only player in baseball who can score from 1B on a 3-2 single that's momentarily bobbled who cannot steal 2B. :angry:Why wouldn't you call that a plan? Knowing that you'll probably see 1st pitch fastball and deciding that if its there you're going to try to turn on it? That's just as much of a plan as anything else.

Willie can steal, as his 9 of 11 shows. But he has to start running again. He's been thinking too much and being tentative.

Harris hit over .400 in May, and wasn't too shabby in April either. He's come down since then, but it's not going back up if he's not playing. All I'm really saying is that I want personell on the field that make this team more dangerous, and some of the players that are out there each day to be more agressive on the basepaths.

JRIG
07-09-2004, 03:02 PM
Harris hit over .400 in May, and wasn't too shabby in April either.
I guess that depends on your definition of "not too shabby." Willie "hit" .254/.299/.324 in April, which is pretty horrible to me.

OzzieBall2004
07-09-2004, 04:31 PM
You must be joking.

Harris is a fast guy who doesn't use his speed so he might as well run like Konerko in most cases.



Thats completely ridiculous. He's a young guy who doesnt want to get picked off, he's building confidence, every player goes through that. He's much more valuable staying at first and scoring (like he did yesterday from first), then getting picked off.
Im just as anxious for him to get it together as anybody else, but to give up on a 26 year old speedster who falls right behind our big guns (Frank, PK, Maggs, and Carlos) in on base perecentage is ridiculous.

Basten
07-09-2004, 05:36 PM
Harris still doesn't use his speed, so he still might as well be Paulie.

Willie: 9 SB / 2 CS
Juan: 7 SB / 4 CS

On Tuesday, Willie got on base twice and never even took a large lead. He loses a lot of value with his unwillingness to run.
Those are deceptive/incomple numbers.

Willie and Uribe have 2 pick-offs each. So in reality, Willi is 9 for 13 (mediocre) and Uribe is 7 for 13 (bad).

Then again, I'd rather see Willie not run than to constantly run into outs as Alex Sanchez has been doing this year. Those outs are too precious with Thomas-Ordonez coming up.

mcfish
07-09-2004, 05:43 PM
Thats completely ridiculous. He's a young guy who doesnt want to get picked off, he's building confidence, every player goes through that. He's much more valuable staying at first and scoring (like he did yesterday from first), then getting picked off.
Im just as anxious for him to get it together as anybody else, but to give up on a 26 year old speedster who falls right behind our big guns (Frank, PK, Maggs, and Carlos) in on base perecentage is ridiculous.Yes, it was really amazing that Willie scored on a 2 out 3-2 count single where Guerrero bobbled the ball.

It's great that he scored, but it wasn't an amazing feat or anything. And that situation is not going to happen every time he's at first. He's much more likely to score from 2nd base.

I didn't say we should give up on him, I said that he's not useful if he doesn't have confidence on the basepaths. His only reason to be on the team is as a speedster, and he won't use his speed.

mcfish
07-09-2004, 05:49 PM
Those are deceptive/incomple numbers.

Willie and Uribe have 2 pick-offs each. So in reality, Willi is 9 for 13 (mediocre) and Uribe is 7 for 13 (bad).

Then again, I'd rather see Willie not run than to constantly run into outs as Alex Sanchez has been doing this year. Those outs are too precious with Thomas-Ordonez coming up.
The difference is, Willie is the team speedster, Uribe is not. For Willie to have only 11 stealing attempts on the year is terrible. Uribe on the other hand not only knows how to hit an extra base hit, but he isn't expected to be stealing regularly.

Blueprint1
07-09-2004, 06:25 PM
They both are not that great but I know that Wille cannot hit. I know that Uribe can get an extra base hit sometimes.

CWSGuy406
07-09-2004, 06:31 PM
The only justification I can see to play Willie Harris this month is to increase his trade potential, but since winning is more impotrant, Uribe is a clear cut choice for a number of reasons.

#1 - Extra Base Hits:The statistics don't lie here. Uribe has 34 extra base hits to Willie's 9; including 11 homeruns to Willie's zero. Might as well put Rey Ordonez in if we want that power, oh wait, Diaz took care of making even Rey better in that category. Willie can steal all he wants but getting 2 extra steals to Uribe but 25 less extra base hits means Uribe is getting a lot further along the base paths. Which is why URIBE HAS 143 TOTAL BASES OVER DOUBLE WILLIE'S 70. Which is why...

2 - Slugging Percentage: Willie: .315 (how many MLB players have a higher avg. than that? ouch) to Juan's .483.

#3 - Wearing Down Pitchers: Although Willie has more walks (something Uribe can be taught to do or given the sign to do) Uribe's ugly swing does in fact foul off lots of pitches.

#4 - Defense: Does anyone recall why Kenny Williams brought Uribe over, for his soft glove. Juan has shown great range for someone who has to cover basically the whole right side with Konerko's range.

I would really like to see Willie relegated to pinch hitting (bunting) and pinch running.

What would make me happier is if he were traded ala Ray Durham. We couldn't get shafted more than we were with Ray and many teams would gladly take a speedy player like Willie for a relief pitcher with closer stuff.
What does hitting homeruns have to do with Willie Harris? Honestly, I could care less if Harris doesn't hit a homer all year. And - HArris does wear down pitchers. The problem with Harris is when he waits and waits and waits for a pitch, that he becomes buried in the count (1-2, 0-2) and he ends up swinging at a crappy pitch.

Harris is a patient hitter, but he also needs to find is pitch and hit it, whether it be the first pitch or the fifth pitch. IMO, if Harris is playing close to every day, he could put up a .270-.290 avg with a .340-.370 OBP.

As for the stealing, I don't want Harris stealing just for the sake of stealing. He should run in the right situations. Harris also needs to realize that his speed alone makes up a lot for his lack of a good jump. That being said, anytime he gets a real good jump, he is going to be very hard to be thrown out, regardless if the throw is perfect.

Basten
07-09-2004, 07:11 PM
The difference is, Willie is the team speedster, Uribe is not. For Willie to have only 11 stealing attempts on the year is terrible. Uribe on the other hand not only knows how to hit an extra base hit, but he isn't expected to be stealing regularly.
What does Uribe's extra base pop have to do with his terrible 7 for 13 SB ratio?

With Frank, Ordonez hitting behind you in a hitter's paradise USCF, if you can't muster 70% success steal rate (80% if you include plays where a runner advances on a bounce in the dirt/off a catcher's chest protector and is not credited with a steal), then don't bother running.

Wealz
07-09-2004, 08:30 PM
Uribe, Valentin, and Rowand are all better, more productive than Harris and thankfully so. Harris is fortunate to have a roster spot and unless he somehow miraculously becomes an adequate defensive catcher between now and the end of the year, he doesn't deserve to be close to the lineup.

Cowch44
07-09-2004, 09:18 PM
A lot of you guys are really down on Willie, but would you rather have Dransdfelt, Graffy, or Steve Sax in the lineup?
:bandance:Go Willie!:bandance:

space_monkey
07-09-2004, 09:41 PM
Go Willie Go