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Wealz
07-08-2004, 02:50 PM
Rowand is the biggest success story for White Sox player development in the Kenny Williams era. He's gone from being a marginal corner OF prospect to a solid starting CF.

Win1ForMe
07-08-2004, 02:53 PM
Yep, his .258/.287/.427 splits against RHP are awesome.

OurBitchinMinny
07-08-2004, 02:53 PM
Hes playing well right now, but its only been a good month. he was awful the first 2 months. He is still hittng under .200 w/ RISP. He is NOT the long term answer IMO. Oh and Loaiza sucks!!!!!

The Cheat
07-08-2004, 02:56 PM
Yep, his .258/.287/.427 splits against RHP are awesome.
And lots here would love Andruw Jones.

Gumshoe
07-08-2004, 03:03 PM
Hes playing well right now, but its only been a good month. he was awful the first 2 months. He is still hittng under .200 w/ RISP. He is NOT the long term answer IMO. Oh and Loaiza sucks!!!!!
I love it that on this board people break down people's months to try to break the particular person down. The OP said that Rowand is producing, which is true. 2 hits today and he's hitting above .300. I don't care WHEN, how, etc. He has produced for the Chicago White Sox offensively and defensively. Did his hits this past month count less than in April? No.

It's like what people do to Konerko. He hit low in teh first half of seasons traditionally and then really really high in the 2nd half. What, is he supposed to hit .380 the whole year? I just don't understand. Averages are averages for a reason. Rowand has been producing, just leave it at that.

Give the guy a real chance to hit RHP, every day, that's all "FOC" has been wanting. He's 2-3 so far today against a good Righty, Sele.

Let's focus on what matters, not stupid splits all the time, when our guys are above .300

G

Uncle_Patrick
07-08-2004, 03:05 PM
I think Rowand is underrated by a lot of people, but, and I hate to say it, he's not the answer to the White Sox center field problem. His defense is adequate but his offense is erratic. He has trouble hitting when it counts, and that's definitely no good. He has good speed and a great arm, but seems to make a lot of plays harder than they need to be. I like him on our bench, though.

And, btw, Loiza is sucking something fierce lately.

mcfish
07-08-2004, 03:07 PM
Let's focus on what matters, not stupid splits all the time, when our guys are above .300

G
Let's take whatever we can get when a guy's over .300. We never have anyone over .300 except Maggs. Nobody else on this team can do it for a whole season - hopefully Aaron and Maggs will.

Randar68
07-08-2004, 03:15 PM
Give the guy a real chance to hit RHP, every day, that's all "FOC" has been wanting. He's 2-3 so far today against a good Righty, Sele.

You got it for almost 2 months, and he was mediocre. He get's put in a platoon situation where he plays semi-regularly, but mostly in favorable match-ups, and he does well.

SHOCKING

He's a platoon player, that's what he does.

RKMeibalane
07-08-2004, 03:19 PM
Rowand has definitely improved since he first came up, but he's not a starting center fielder by any stretch of the imagination. He has played well this season, but he also had a stretch last season where he played well. I like Aaron, but he is not the long-term answer in center field.

Wealz
07-08-2004, 03:36 PM
Rowand has definitely improved since he first came up, but he's not a starting center fielder by any stretch of the imagination. He has played well this season, but he also had a stretch last season where he played well. I like Aaron, but he is not the long-term answer in center field.
Rowand's slugging percentage against righties is ~.470. Carlos Lee's is ~.450. Not bad when you consider Lee makes $6,000,000 more than Rowand.

maggliofan10
07-08-2004, 03:40 PM
The problem a lot of our players have is that they don't play every day. It's not really their fault if they don't have a high batting average. Playing every other day and having an average over .300? right. not going to happen. We need a solid set of players. Not a rotation of outfielders and this crap. It messes them up!

OurBitchinMinny
07-08-2004, 04:39 PM
I love it that on this board people break down people's months to try to break the particular person down. The OP said that Rowand is producing, which is true. 2 hits today and he's hitting above .300. I don't care WHEN, how, etc. He has produced for the Chicago White Sox offensively and defensively. Did his hits this past month count less than in April? No.

It's like what people do to Konerko. He hit low in teh first half of seasons traditionally and then really really high in the 2nd half. What, is he supposed to hit .380 the whole year? I just don't understand. Averages are averages for a reason. Rowand has been producing, just leave it at that.

Give the guy a real chance to hit RHP, every day, that's all "FOC" has been wanting. He's 2-3 so far today against a good Righty, Sele.

Let's focus on what matters, not stupid splits all the time, when our guys are above .300

G
So its not important that he cant hit w/RISP consistently? He is a fourth outfielder on a playoff team. What the hell has he done in his career to justify anything other than that? And he is not exactly torii hunter or cameron with the glove out there. And Im happy he had a good month, but a good month does not make up for a career of bad months.

maurice
07-08-2004, 05:13 PM
This season: .301 AVE, .344 OBP, .526 SLG, 196 ABs
Career: .279 AVE, .330 OBP, .442 SLG, 773 ABs

Those are some pretty darn respectible numbers.

His AVE with RISP this season (39 ABs) is not a very persuasive argument against him, particularly since, in the previous three seasons (127 ABs), his AVE with RISP was .323.

BTW, while your looking at splits, note that it's incorrect to say that he's been good with the stick only one month this year and bad the rest. Acutally, he was only bad one month (April) and good the rest.

Cubbiesuck13
07-08-2004, 05:36 PM
So its not important that he cant hit w/RISP consistently? He is a fourth outfielder on a playoff team. What the hell has he done in his career to justify anything other than that? And he is not exactly torii hunter or cameron with the glove out there. And Im happy he had a good month, but a good month does not make up for a career of bad months.
any stat heads out there know the comparrisons with the other starting CFers in the AL? and defensively there are not a lot of guys comparable with hunter and cameron.

Dub25
07-08-2004, 05:41 PM
Maybe Ross Gload can teach Aaron how to take correct angles to the ball.

SomebodyToldMe
07-08-2004, 05:45 PM
i'm a rowand fan...have been for a while.

and i'm serious.


rowand rocks.

depy48
07-08-2004, 06:51 PM
i was on the fence with rowand for a while there, now i'm full pledged on the rowand band wagon, (is there a rowand bandwagon?). the way he has been hitting, espcially in big sitautions, like today, has impressed me, especially for a guy who has been dubbed "play against lefties only." so he can hit right handed batting. his fielding and arm have never been a problem in my mind. i'd like to see him get more pt.
:D:

cbrownson13
07-08-2004, 07:23 PM
I agree, Rowand has quickly developed into one of my favorite players on the Sox. He plays hard and has been hitting the ball pretty well lately. I saw on the CF scoreboard today that in his last 40 some games he is hitting .375

lowesox
07-08-2004, 07:30 PM
I can't believe how many of you dislike Rowand. He plays as hard or harder than any other player on this team - and his numbers are good.

He's been a very big part of this team.

Jerome
07-08-2004, 07:33 PM
Who cares about Rowand's defense? Is it that bad that it has cost us games? There are very few Beltrans, Hunters, and Camerons. Defense=Overrated. If Rowand can hit, he should start. Today's performance warranted a start. Somebody tell me an instance where Rowand's defense made the Sox lose a game. Joe Crede plays a great D at third. Wouldn't most of us rather see Uribe at third instead, even if it means sacrificing some defense?

idseer
07-08-2004, 08:04 PM
I can't believe how many of you dislike Rowand. He plays as hard or harder than any other player on this team - and his numbers are good.

He's been a very big part of this team.
the problem there is there are those who made up their minds on aaron a long time ago and, by god, they're sticking to their guns! :rolleyes:

Paulwny
07-08-2004, 08:34 PM
I can't believe how many of you dislike Rowand. He plays as hard or harder than any other player on this team - and his numbers are good.

He's been a very big part of this team.
Again, people using dislike. I DON"T dislike Rowand, I never met him. I agree he's a very hard worker, but I still don't believe he's an every day player.
I'm not going into another long argument, I'll continue to watch Randar bang his head against a wall. :rolleyes:

Randar68
07-08-2004, 09:50 PM
Again, people using dislike. I DON"T dislike Rowand, I never met him. I agree he's a very hard worker, but I still don't believe he's an every day player.
I'm not going into another long argument, I'll continue to watch Randar bang his head against a wall. :rolleyes:For some people, everything is black and white. I wish I lived in that simple world. Saying he's a platoon player and that his defense in CF is barely adequate becomes hate, dislike, vendetta, etc etc.

It's called small-mindedness.

Rowand is a try-hard player who is a 4th OF'er on a playoff team. That's the only point I've ever tried to make. Some people just don't have a clue how to relate what they read on the internet to real life.

And to the guy who asked if he's cost us games with his defense? yes, he has. Oakland, and earlier misplays in the field lead to runs in close games.

thepaulbowski
07-09-2004, 07:19 AM
For some people, everything is black and white. I wish I lived in that simple world. Saying he's a platoon player and that his defense in CF is barely adequate becomes hate, dislike, vendetta, etc etc.

It's called small-mindedness.

Rowand is a try-hard player who is a 4th OF'er on a playoff team. That's the only point I've ever tried to make. Some people just don't have a clue how to relate what they read on the internet to real life.

And to the guy who asked if he's cost us games with his defense? yes, he has. Oakland, and earlier misplays in the field lead to runs in close games.
Exactly...I want this guy on my team, but as a 4th outfieder and a guy who can fill in when others are hurt. He's everthing you look for in a player, that comes off the bench. He's the outfield version of Tony G.

Randar68
07-09-2004, 10:54 AM
Exactly...I want this guy on my team, but as a 4th outfieder and a guy who can fill in when others are hurt. He's everthing you look for in a player, that comes off the bench. He's the outfield version of Tony G.
Yep, and too many people have this irrational "Back-up QB Complex" in this town. Maybe it's a football carry-over?

thepaulbowski
07-09-2004, 11:26 AM
Yep, and too many people have this irrational "Back-up QB Complex" in this town. Maybe it's a football carry-over?
Jim Miller would be one helluva center fielder.:tongue:

Wealz
07-09-2004, 11:29 AM
Exactly...I want this guy on my team, but as a 4th outfieder and a guy who can fill in when others are hurt. He's everthing you look for in a player, that comes off the bench. He's the outfield version of Tony G.
Well, Graffinino had the most AB's (290) of his career to date at the age Rowand is now (26) and produced the following: .211/.275/.318. If he shows the same improvement as Graffinino has after the age of 26, he'll be in an All-Star game or two.

At the very least, Rowand's performance this year underscores that Williams signing Carlos Lee for $14 million was a big mistake and one that could cost him Ordonez.

Randar68
07-09-2004, 11:30 AM
Well, Graffinino had the most AB's (290) of his career to date at the age Rowand is now (26) and produced the following: .211/.275/.318. If he shows the same improvement as Graffinino has after the age of 26, he'll be in an All-Star game or two.

At the very least, Rowand's performance this year underscores that Williams signing Carlos Lee for $14 million was a big mistake and one that could cost him Ordonez.
:whoflungpoo

oeo
07-09-2004, 12:07 PM
When Maggs goes back into right when he's healthy enough, I would rather have Timo out in center, and leading off. I feel more comfortable with him not only on defense, but offense also.

Randar68
07-09-2004, 12:17 PM
When Maggs goes back into right when he's healthy enough, I would rather have Timo out in center, and leading off. I feel more comfortable with him not only on defense, but offense also.
I've got no problem with Platooning Timo and Rowand, they're a good platoon pair based on their splits.

Wealz
07-09-2004, 12:20 PM
When Maggs goes back into right when he's healthy enough, I would rather have Timo out in center, and leading off. I feel more comfortable with him not only on defense, but offense also.
Or you could platoon Perez and Lee in left, playing Rowand every day in center.

Randar68
07-09-2004, 12:21 PM
Or you could platoon Perez and Lee in left, playing Rowand every day in center.

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Mrs. Rowand, settle-down.

Wealz
07-09-2004, 12:24 PM
:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Mrs. Rowand, settle-down.
Damn, you are funny.

Randar68
07-09-2004, 12:26 PM
Damn, you are funny.
"Your logic doesn't cut it"

:dtroll:

thepaulbowski
07-09-2004, 01:51 PM
:whoflungpoo
:rolling:

thepaulbowski
07-09-2004, 01:52 PM
Or you could platoon Perez and Lee in left, playing Rowand every day in center.

Uhhh...no.

Blueprint1
07-09-2004, 04:08 PM
Anyone else just tired of this debate. I have posted about it i would say about 100 times. Yes i think Rowand should be in centerfield every day. Yes there are others that say he is a AAAA player. Yes there are a whole bunch of better center fielders in the league. I don't agree with the debate that Timo should play. You know what we have discussed this too much. I AM DONE.

Basten
07-09-2004, 04:10 PM
For some people, everything is black and white. I wish I lived in that simple world. Saying he's a platoon player and that his defense in CF is barely adequate becomes hate, dislike, vendetta, etc etc.

It's called small-mindedness.

Rowand is a try-hard player who is a 4th OF'er on a playoff team. That's the only point I've ever tried to make. Some people just don't have a clue how to relate what they read on the internet to real life.

And to the guy who asked if he's cost us games with his defense? yes, he has. Oakland, and earlier misplays in the field lead to runs in close games.What?

1. While not a Gold Glover, Rowand has an above average range and a well-above average arm in CF. That he gives 100% on each and every play play sometimes allows him to reach a ball that a more talented but also more complacent fielder (includes Andruw and Edmonds on certain days, or even Beltran less frequently) would not.

2. For a guy who was projected to be a corner OF in the bigs, and one who's had his share of problems in 2001 and 2002......Aaron has made a remarkable adjustment in the last couple of years. Better reads, better jumps, better routes - none of that breaking-the-wrong-way/drifting-with-the-ball silliness from the earlier days with the Sox. Carlos Lee gets all the credit for goign from a horrible fielder (1999-2000) all the way to an average one (2003), but Aaron is the guy who made the biggest and quickest improvement - at a position noone even expected him to play well at.....To claim that he anything less than an above average defensive CF in 2003-2004 would be preposterous.

3. Which is not to say that Aaron has been flawless out there - no, he still tries to do too much (Vladimir Guerreritis) on certain plays and it ends up misfiring. Strangely enough, most of these sins have come while he was playing RF, not CF - and most of them were of "giving up extra base" variety and not of more serious "giving up extra out" one.

4. Randar points out the game in Oakland where Aron's aggressiveness caught up with him and bobbled the ball, wow - did you know that Jones, Hunter, Cameron, Beltran and Kotsay all had moments where not only they gave up an extra base, but also misplayed the ball (Andruw and Hunter did it against us in fact) from an easy out into a double/triple?

5. And while we're remebering the bad plays, will we also remember Aaron getting a flawless jump and tracking Gerut's liner all the way into the RCF wall and thereby basically saving the game and Rauch's behind? Or him saving a game another way - with his arm (check out his assist ratio in 2003) preventing the runners from tagging up or taking the extra base? No, I didn't think so - a biased mind only functions one way. Irony.

6. Would we prefer Rowand pull some tricks out of Griffey's, Andruw's and Edmonds's books and either breaking the wrong way before the camera has a chance to pan or slowing down right before the speed burst - all that effort just to make a "spectacular" catch and end up on Sportcenter? When was the last time Aaron had to resort to such cheap tricks?

7. Yes, Aaron made a terrible mistake that basically wiped out the 1st half of 2003. And yes, he is much better against LHP. But he also has shown ability to hit RHP fairly decently when given a chance to start. As soon as he would go 2 for 4 one game, but then after a 1 for 4 game he'd find himself on the bench. Some players can be jerked around like that, but many can't - and Aaron appears to be in the latter category.

8. His RISP production? Up until this year he's been coming though in those situations well - even when he wasn't hitting in other situations. So, he is clearly NOT a Clayton-esque choker. Same thing is happening with Carlos Lee - he is hitting .140 w. RISP after excellent success in the past. I fully expect both to rebound to the decent .280-300 levels by year's end.

9. Which is not to say that Aaron has a "slump"-proof swing or possesses an overwhelming talent. No, he too gets in trouble when he starts pulling-n-elevating the pitch; with his short, quick stroke and upper body strenght, the ball jumps off his bat to RCF-CF when he's going right. He's been using a more all-field approach the last 2 months, and his OPS soared.

10. For anyone to arrogantly proclaim Borchard a superior player to Rowand, one must have a special propensity to delude oneself. Rowand has a quicker bat, much more range in CF, better arm (Borchard has the most overhyped arm I've ever seen - not enough arm speed or technique to fully utilize his natural strenght), runs bases better, can actually lay a bunt down once in while.......Why Borchard has been given a pass the last 3 years as he struggled in a AAA bandbox, all the while Aaron's every mistake at the ML level has been scutinized I have no idea.


Recaping: good defense; very solid on the pads; 800-825 OPS potential (say, 950 vs LHP, 750 vrs RHP); low salary; is still young and hard-working enough, which may allow him to overachieve from time to time in one or more areas of the game. Yeah, let's take this guy for granted some more. :rolleyes:

Basten
07-09-2004, 04:28 PM
Btw....

Timo Perez? Is a bad defensive player and every time they switch CF positions, the contrast between Rowand and Timo is startling - Rowand gets better jumps, has more speed, a stronger arm and doesn't have Timo's disgusting showboating habits.

Willie? Average in CF on his best day. A poor man's Corey Patterson.

Why should either of them start over Rowand again?

Daver
07-09-2004, 04:40 PM
Btw....

Timo Perez? Is a bad defensive player and every time they switch CF positions, the contrast between Rowand and Timo is startling - Rowand gets better jumps, has more speed, a stronger arm and doesn't have Timo's disgusting showboating habits.

Willie? Average in CF on his best day. A poor man's Corey Patterson.

Why should either of them start over Rowand again?

I never realized Aaron had this many relatives that posted here.

OEO Magglio
07-09-2004, 04:44 PM
Or you could platoon Perez and Lee in left, playing Rowand every day in center.Wow, that's probably the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever said on this board, I'll just leave it at that.

Mohoney
07-09-2004, 05:21 PM
And lots here would love Andruw Jones.

Not me. I want Steve Finley.

Basten
07-09-2004, 05:21 PM
I never realized Aaron had this many relatives that posted here.
:?:

gosox41
07-09-2004, 05:22 PM
Rowand is the biggest success story for White Sox player development in the Kenny Williams era. He's gone from being a marginal corner OF prospect to a solid starting CF.
Says a lot about the KW era.


Bob

gobears1987
07-09-2004, 07:32 PM
He bats over .300, what more do you want? He is better than Jones and makes amazing catches. He is still not at his full potential and will be a player to keep a good eye on for years.

Wealz
07-09-2004, 07:34 PM
Says a lot about the KW era.


Bob
Agreed.

Basten
07-09-2004, 08:05 PM
He bats over .300, what more do you want? .
When it comes to Rowand? Anything short of 900 OPS, 30 SB and a Gold Glove would be uncivilized.

When it comes to Willie or Borchard? Remarkably little.

pissonthecubs
07-09-2004, 08:14 PM
Or you could platoon Perez and Lee in left, playing Rowand every day in center.
wow, very stupid idea, just my opinion. lets leave Lee in left and Rowand in center. Timo looks much better on the bench. let him pinch run here and there.

SoxBoy14
07-09-2004, 08:17 PM
wow, very stupid idea, just my opinion. lets leave Lee in left and Rowand in center. Timo looks much better on the bench. let him pinch run here and there.
Timo may not be the best defensive player out there, but he can hit the ball. I say keep him at DH until Frank comes back. Or rotate him with Rowand.

Wealz
07-09-2004, 08:19 PM
wow, very stupid idea, just my opinion. lets leave Lee in left and Rowand in center. Timo looks much better on the bench. let him pinch run here and there.
Point was Lee has seemed to escape criticism. For a $6.5M LF'er he is an offensive liabillity.

A. Cavatica
07-09-2004, 08:37 PM
I've been a consistent Rowand fan, but I refuse to crow about his recent performance.

See, I agree with Randar that the improvement in his performance coincides with seeing fewer RHP: on a real contender, he would be a fourth outfielder or a platoon regular. We disagree on his defense, and on whether Aaron is a weakness that needs to be addressed.

I don't care how he looks and what routes he takes. I care about his results, and his results have been damn good by every defensive statistic anyone's produced. Statistically, he's good in CF. Even after subtracting some style points, he's adequate (and I use the term without the "barely" that Randar grudgingly adds).

Is Rowand a weakness? He's the third best outfielder on the team. If we'd given Reed a shot, Rowand would now be the fourth best, but currently he's better than Timo, better than Willie, and better than Gload or Burke or LTP. (When we had Everett, he was better than Everett.) The third best outfielder is not a weakness. Now, Burke in the outfield: that's a weakness.

Rowand should be getting all the available CF at-bats against LHP, and a good chunk of the at-bats against RHP, with the balance going to Timo. Borchard can get his at-bats in right field.

Basten
07-09-2004, 09:44 PM
Point was Lee has seemed to escape criticism. For a $6.5M LF'er he is an offensive liabillity.
Yes, he has been a mild disappointment this season, but certainly not a liability - and you know, he's about to bust out. Plus he has that big talent and is 2 years younger than Sammy was when he "took it to the next level"

Having said that....Carlos will be 29 next year and I believe will be making 9 Mill a year. Given his average defense and unspectacular baserunning, I want to see 900+ OPS. Come on Caballo, you can do it.:bandance:

gobears1987
07-09-2004, 09:48 PM
Caballo is doing fine, 5 rbi's tonight and 3 HRs in the last 2 games

Basten
07-09-2004, 09:49 PM
I've been a consistent Rowand fan, but I refuse to crow about his recent performance.

See, I agree with Randar that the improvement in his performance coincides with seeing fewer RHP: on a real contender, he would be a fourth outfielder or a platoon regular. We disagree on his defense, and on whether Aaron is a weakness that needs to be addressed.

I don't care how he looks and what routes he takes. I care about his results, and his results have been damn good by every defensive statistic anyone's produced. Statistically, he's good in CF. Even after subtracting some style points, he's adequate (and I use the term without the "barely" that Randar grudgingly adds).

Is Rowand a weakness? He's the third best outfielder on the team. If we'd given Reed a shot, Rowand would now be the fourth best, but currently he's better than Timo, better than Willie, and better than Gload or Burke or LTP. (When we had Everett, he was better than Everett.) The third best outfielder is not a weakness. Now, Burke in the outfield: that's a weakness.

Rowand should be getting all the available CF at-bats against LHP, and a good chunk of the at-bats against RHP, with the balance going to Timo. Borchard can get his at-bats in right field.Tonight he goes 1 for 4 with a long single and 2 line-outs to Ichiro. Could have just as easily been 3 for 4. Seeing him drive the ball to RF is a real good sign. He also effortlessly tracked down that deep fly ball to RCF to end the game - no, it wasn't a particularly tough play, but I've seen many times both Willie and Timo totally misplay it into a "double". These things shouldn't be taken for granted.

And you know what? If Crash is our biggest concern, then start printing World Series right effin' now. :gulp:

WSox8404
07-09-2004, 10:24 PM
Carlos is just fine. He does a decent job in the outfield and seems to throw quite a few runners out even though he has a below average arm. And when he hits, he hits. I would say that 9 million is good for a player with his capabilities because I still don't think he has reached his prime.

Randar68
07-10-2004, 01:54 PM
He is better than Jones and makes amazing catches. He is still not at his full potential and will be a player to keep a good eye on for years.
oMG! Someone save me from the stupidity.

idseer
07-10-2004, 04:25 PM
oMG! Someone save me from the stupidity.
no one can save you from that.

Basten
07-11-2004, 04:41 PM
no one can save you from that.No, Rowand is not Andruw Jones, although if he starts utilizing LF-CF more often, he'd come close to Andruw's offensive production, that's for sure. Not nearly as many HR, but more singles and doubles and many fewer GIDP. He is a better baserunner this year as well.

Has anyone been watching Andruw play defense this year? My god, talk about a drop-off - lackaidaisical with his jumps AND less closing speed because of the extra weight and rumored ailing knees. Still very good, but no longer "the best CF of the last 30 years" good.

The way Aaron has played CF in 2003-2004, the gap between the two defensively has narrowed. That ball by Winn he almost caught as he crashed into the wall? Neither Willie, Borchard or Timo come close. Anybody remember that LCF drive by Devanon off Rauch that broke the game open? Very similar drive - too bad Timo WASN'T EVEN IN THE REPLAY PICTURE when the ball landed - and Aaron is the one who is "barely adequate to play CF"? Huh?

I do think Aaron's aggressiveness can get the best of him (as it did at least twice on charge plays when he was in RF) - today instead of pulling up and playing it safe on Boone's single he tried to get it and it almost bounced over his head. Then again, there ISN'T an OF in the game who hasn't paid a dear price for trying to make a risky play at least a couple of times this year. I know Andruw Jones and Torri Hunter did that against us.

But overall, Aaron is AT WORST an above average defensive CF - and mind you, I was among those ripped his D. in 2002 and thought his future was RF.

Aaron, Carlos and Jose have improved their D. since 2002, for sure.

doublem23
07-11-2004, 04:46 PM
These threads never fail to provide a smile. Rowand better than Andruw Jones. :roflmao:

jeremyb1
07-11-2004, 05:01 PM
These threads never fail to provide a smile. Rowand better than Andruw Jones. :roflmao:

And ammo. The next time Rowand goes 0 for 4 you can bet there'll be a thread started talking about how insane the fans of crash are for comparing him to Jones when it's a guy with 88 posts.

bigdommer
07-11-2004, 05:33 PM
Carlos is just fine. He does a decent job in the outfield and seems to throw quite a few runners out even though he has a below average arm. And when he hits, he hits. I would say that 9 million is good for a player with his capabilities because I still don't think he has reached his prime.
I agree. His offensive numbers this year are solid, and he had a slow start and only now is starting to hit for power. Not only has he not reached his prime, but he is getting better every day. Even today, when he didn't hit, he saved a run out in LF.

Also, he scares the opposition more than almost anyone else is the Sox order. I know an advanced scout from an AL team, and he says they prepare more for Carlos than anyone else because he will hit good and bad pitches alike. He can take a nasty slider on the outer half to right for a single, and he can take a hanger out of the zone out of the ballpark. Other teams know where to pitch Frank and Paulie, but those guys are patient enough to wait. Carlos will swing and hit every type of pitch in every zone.

Basten
07-11-2004, 06:06 PM
Also, he scares the opposition more than almost anyone else is the Sox order. I know an advanced scout from an AL team, and he says they prepare more for Carlos than anyone else because he will hit good and bad pitches alike. He can take a nasty slider on the outer half to right for a single, and he can take a hanger out of the zone out of the ballpark. Other teams know where to pitch Frank and Paulie, but those guys are patient enough to wait. Carlos will swing and hit every type of pitch in every zone.
Given that Frank put up monster numbers (almost 1100 OPS) from mid-June of 2003 to mid-June 2004, I find it REEEAAAALLLYYY hard to believe that Carlos was the more feared hitter. If anything, they walked Frank many a time, to get to Carlos.