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StepsInSC
07-07-2004, 12:31 PM
Anyone else tired of non All-Stars participating in the HR Derby? This year its Palmeiro, but he's not even on the freaking team. I don't really watch the HR Derby anymore, but it seems like it should be limited to ALL STARS.

Wasn't it just last year that Sosa was in it when he wasn't even on the AS team?

EDIT: Well I saw that supposedly Palmiero is the first non-member to participate...I guess maybe Sosa was injured last year but was still voted on or something, or my memory just sucks.

Eh, I know he has 500 homers and all but I still don't think he should be in the derby.

the_valenstache
07-07-2004, 12:39 PM
I believe the more pressing issue is non-All Stars on the All Star Team.

*cough*giambi*cough*

RKMeibalane
07-07-2004, 02:54 PM
I believe the more pressing issue is non-All Stars on the All Star Team.

*cough*giambi*cough*
I'm still holding out hope that Giambi may withdraw from the game. I never wish ill on anyone. I hope that Giambi is able to recover from his parasitic infection and finish the season strong, but he doesn't belong in the AS Game. For the second straight year, he has taken Frank's spot away from him.

DAMN YANKEES!

StockdaleForVeep
07-07-2004, 03:09 PM
Anyone else tired of non All-Stars participating in the HR Derby? This year its Palmeiro, but he's not even on the freaking team. I don't really watch the HR Derby anymore, but it seems like it should be limited to ALL STARS.

Wasn't it just last year that Sosa was in it when he wasn't even on the AS team?

EDIT: Well I saw that supposedly Palmiero is the first non-member to participate...I guess maybe Sosa was injured last year but was still voted on or something, or my memory just sucks.

Eh, I know he has 500 homers and all but I still don't think he should be in the derby.

Shouldnt a certain AL mvp from a certain chicago team be one of the non all star dingers?

RKMeibalane
07-07-2004, 03:12 PM
Shouldnt a certain AL mvp from a certain chicago team be one of the non all star dingers?
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Frank was invited to participate, but turned down the invitation. The last time he was in a home run contest, he said it messed up his swing, so he was popping everything up for the next two weeks.

kjhanson
07-07-2004, 03:13 PM
Not only is it a joke that Giambi is on the team in the first place. The fact that he is participating in the Home Run Derby is ridiculous. His 11 home runs rank 30th!! in the AL....Hell, we should've lobbied more for Uribe and his 11 homers, and maybe he would have gotten HR Derby Consideration...Doubtful. Meanwhile, Rod Barajas, Casey Blake, Rob Mackowiak and Brad Wilkerson have more homers than Giambi.

CubKilla
07-07-2004, 03:32 PM
For the second straight year, he has taken Frank's spot away from him.
What about Konerko this year? Or have you forgotten about him?

RKMeibalane
07-07-2004, 03:40 PM
What about Konerko this year? Or have you forgotten about him?
My point was based more on the fact that Frank finished second in the fan voting. Yes, Konerko deserves to be there, as well. :smile:

mcfish
07-07-2004, 03:47 PM
Is it just me or is Frank's .271 average not exactly overwhelming anyone else? 18 HR's is 3 less than PK, and PK has a .284 average. Frank always gets lots of walks, and I want him to continue to do that, but it's not as impressive as a decent average. If any first baseman from the Sox deserves to be in the game, it's PK.

Tekijawa
07-07-2004, 04:16 PM
I think the reason Raffy will be there is because they will be having all the living members of the 500 HR club there... Hurry up Mcgriff you still have a chance to go to Houston!!!

idseer
07-07-2004, 04:25 PM
there was a time when the home run derby had nothing to do with the all-star game.

http://www.jumptheshark.com/h/homerunderby.htm

SomebodyToldMe
07-07-2004, 06:12 PM
i used to watch those when they showed them on espn classic.

"TWO AWAY!"

StockdaleForVeep
07-08-2004, 03:30 AM
i used to watch those when they showed them on espn classic.

"TWO AWAY!"
Wasnt this back in the era when they were paid like indentured servants and needed the bonus derby money to live?

idseer
07-08-2004, 10:40 AM
Wasnt this back in the era when they were paid like indentured servants and needed the bonus derby money to live?wow. are YOU spoiled!

if you call being paid anywhere from $40,000 to $100,000 for 5 or 6 months playing baseball in an era where the average worker was making $7,000 to $20,000 a year an indentured servant then i think you haven't given things much thought.

fquaye149
07-08-2004, 01:21 PM
Is it just me or is Frank's .271 average not exactly overwhelming anyone else? 18 HR's is 3 less than PK, and PK has a .284 average. Frank always gets lots of walks, and I want him to continue to do that, but it's not as impressive as a decent average. If any first baseman from the Sox deserves to be in the game, it's PK.
so PK's .013 points he has on frank plus 2 HR is more impressive than his deficit in RBI'S and the almost .100 points he gives up in OBP?

I'm no SABRmetrician, but you have to give a little quarter here.

mcfish
07-08-2004, 05:09 PM
so PK's .013 points he has on frank plus 2 HR is more impressive than his deficit in RBI'S and the almost .100 points he gives up in OBP?

I'm no SABRmetrician, but you have to give a little quarter here.
Paulie has more RBI's. OBP is the only think Frank has on Paulie. Frank's been great in his career, but .270 is not All-Star material, whatever the OBP.

Plus, it's .050 in OBP - Paulie = .379, Frank = .434.
and it's .020 in Average - Paulie = a respectible .291, Frank = .271, and I expect better from Frank.

G AB R H 2B 3 HR RBI TB BB K SB C OBP SLG AVG
1. P Konerko CWS 1B 77 275 40 80 11 0 21 57 154 36 49 1 0 .379 .560 .291
2. F Thomas CWS DH 74 240 53 65 16 0 18 49 135 64 57 0 2 .434 .563 .271

fquaye149
07-08-2004, 05:15 PM
we'll see how many people throw their hat in with you on this one.

I think there's a reason people recognize frank as much better than paulie, even with paulie's red hot streak this month. and it's not because the media told them to.

mcfish
07-08-2004, 05:35 PM
we'll see how many people throw their hat in with you on this one.

I think there's a reason people recognize frank as much better than paulie, even with paulie's red hot streak this month. and it's not because the media told them to.
Frank is better than Paulie over the length of each player's career. But All-Star game selection is based on performance in the current year, not over a career. Well, actually it's based on a popularity contest, but this year's performance is what it should be based on.

Paulie has outperformed Frank so far this year. That doesn't make Frank a bad player. It means Paulie has played really well. By the end of the year, it could be the exact opposite too.

munchman33
07-08-2004, 05:39 PM
Is it just me or is Frank's .271 average not exactly overwhelming anyone else? 18 HR's is 3 less than PK, and PK has a .284 average. Frank always gets lots of walks, and I want him to continue to do that, but it's not as impressive as a decent average. If any first baseman from the Sox deserves to be in the game, it's PK.
Frank leads the league in on base percentage. Paulie's OBP is actually below league average.

Paulie's got decent numbers, but his numbers are nowhere near as good as Frank's.

SomebodyToldMe
07-08-2004, 05:39 PM
But All-Star game selection is based on performance in the current year, not over a career.

or in este's case, last year.

mcfish
07-08-2004, 05:48 PM
or in este's case, last year.
That was just a stupid pick by whoever picks pitchers (players, Torre, etc.) It should have been Shingo, Buerhle, or Paulie

mcfish
07-08-2004, 05:57 PM
Frank leads the league in on base percentage. Paulie's OBP is actually below league average.

Paulie's got decent numbers, but his numbers are nowhere near as good as Frank's.Where do you get these stats? Yes, Frank leads the AL in OBP, and is 5th overall. But Paulie is tied for 18th in the AL at .379 and is tied for #38 overall.

In almost every other category, Paulie is higher. Frank does have more doubles though. I guess that's the one that puts him over the edge.

ode to veeck
07-08-2004, 08:24 PM
For the second straight year, he has taken Frank's spot away from him.

As much as I'm a huge FOF, I can't say he's the most deserving DH or IB this year in the AL. Yeah, he's way ahead of Giambi or others on the ballot, but that ain't really saying squat.