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kittle42
07-06-2004, 02:47 PM
For what it's worth:

George Ofman was just discussing Ordonez's contract talks at lengthe and opined that the biggest holdup may not be the number of years but, big shocker, the amount of money Uncle Jerry wants to defer. Ofman said Ordonez may take less money overall, but more up front, to play elsewhere.

SOXSINCE'70
07-06-2004, 02:51 PM
For what it's worth:

George Ofman was just discussing Ordonez's contract talks at lengthe and opined that the biggest holdup may not be the number of years but, big shocker, the amount of money Uncle Jerry wants to defer. Ofamn said Ordonez may take less money overall, but more up front, to play elsewhere.Keep in mind something else "Cubbie boy" Ofman said;just as there are players willing to take less money money to play for Crusty Dusty,there are now players who would be willing to take less to play for Ozzie.Just something to consider.:cool:

DaveIsHere
07-06-2004, 02:53 PM
Keep in mind something else "Cubbie boy" Ofman said;just as there are players willing to take lake money money to play for Crusty Dusty,there are now players who would be willing to take less to play for Ozzie.Just something to consider.:cool:WOW now we dont even need money if they will take "lake" :D:


EDIT: It did say take lake FYI

SOXSINCE'70
07-06-2004, 02:54 PM
WOW now we dont even need money if they will take "lake" :D:


EDIT: It did say take lake FYI
And I corrected it,Dave.Thanks.:D: :D:

Jerko
07-06-2004, 02:55 PM
I don't listen to a word jag-Offman says ever since his April Fools day garbage. He can go suck it along with the rest of his score co-workers. :angry:

harwar
07-06-2004, 03:01 PM
sometimes you have to read between the lines when listening to info from the cub guys.I only believe it right away when i hear it on the White Sox pre or post game shows.

jabrch
07-06-2004, 03:07 PM
If that's the case - and this is all about the difference between 50mm today and 50mm in 7 years, and the only difference is the few million it would cost Magglio to have the future value converted to present day $, then he is a greedy MF and he can get the heck out of here. I won't miss him in the slightest if, at the end of the day, it was all about money to begin with.

joeynach
07-06-2004, 03:24 PM
If that's the case - and this is all about the difference between 50mm today and 50mm in 7 years, and the only difference is the few million it would cost Magglio to have the future value converted to present day $, then he is a greedy MF and he can get the heck out of here. I won't miss him in the slightest if, at the end of the day, it was all about money to begin with.
The hold up has also been reported to be the 5th year. The sox wanted to option it and Maggs wants it guranteed. That along with the deffered money BS is enbough to derail this whole thing. But its funny in principle they have agreed to the terms. Deffered money or less years takes nothing away from the amount which he gets paid, just when. There are sometimes deffered money is great, like when your building a franchise. News to Uncle Jerry this is your 23rd year, enough with the deffered money contracts all the time. Dont jerk Maggs around. The sox owe frank something like half of his contract over the next 20 years. Granted some of that is with interest so he actually makes money, but still people have preferences. Some people prefer to take less money and the lump sum, others prefer to make the most stretched out of a periiod of time. For Maggs he wants the bulk, if not all up front. And why not that is the norm. Deffered payments are sort of a last resort, or a negioting piece in getting players the money they want. Maggs would probably sign anything between 12-14 mil for 5 years if it was not deffered. Most likely they will offer him that with deffered, make it public when he declines it and point the bad guy finger at MAggs and see we offered the $$ he wanted. Well i say no you didn't you offered probably half of that and told him he will get the other half when he is not in this country and 60 years old. Forget it. I dont know of any teams that lock up superstar players that way.

FasterThanPaulie
07-06-2004, 03:36 PM
The hold up has also been reported to be the 5th year. The sox wanted to option it and Maggs wants it guranteed. That along with the deffered money BS is enbough to derail this whole thing. But its funny in principle they have agreed to the terms. Deffered money or less years takes nothing away from the amount which he gets paid, just when. There are sometimes deffered money is great, like when your building a franchise. News to Uncle Jerry this is your 23rd year, enough with the deffered money contracts all the time. Dont jerk Maggs around. The sox owe frank something like half of his contract over the next 20 years. Granted some of that is with interest so he actually makes money, but still people have preferences. Some people prefer to take less money and the lump sum, others prefer to make the most stretched out of a periiod of time. For Maggs he wants the bulk, if not all up front. And why not that is the norm. Deffered payments are sort of a last resort, or a negioting piece in getting players the money they want. Maggs would probably sign anything between 12-14 mil for 5 years if it was not deffered. Most likely they will offer him that with deffered, make it public when he declines it and point the bad guy finger at MAggs and see we offered the $$ he wanted. Well i say no you didn't you offered probably half of that and told him he will get the other half when he is not in this country and 60 years old. Forget it. I dont know of any teams that lock up superstar players that way.I have heard that the option year is the biggest hold up. Not the money. The sox need the option year according to Kenny, because they need to have some sort of say in the deal in case of injury or performance declining. I don't have an issue with that. He will be 35/36 at the end of this deal? I think the Sox should have some kind of option at that point. I mean hell didn't Frank and even the mighty Sammy Sosa have these options in their contracts? Even a mutual option of some kind.

jabrch
07-06-2004, 03:37 PM
The hold up has also been reported to be the 5th year. The sox wanted to option it and Maggs wants it guranteed. That along with the deffered money BS is enbough to derail this whole thing. But its funny in principle they have agreed to the terms. Deffered money or less years takes nothing away from the amount which he gets paid, just when. There are sometimes deffered money is great, like when your building a franchise. News to Uncle Jerry this is your 23rd year, enough with the deffered money contracts all the time. Dont jerk Maggs around. The sox owe frank something like half of his contract over the next 20 years. Granted some of that is with interest so he actually makes money, but still people have preferences. Some people prefer to take less money and the lump sum, others prefer to make the most stretched out of a periiod of time. For Maggs he wants the bulk, if not all up front. And why not that is the norm. Deffered payments are sort of a last resort, or a negioting piece in getting players the money they want. Maggs would probably sign anything between 12-14 mil for 5 years if it was not deffered. Most likely they will offer him that with deffered, make it public when he declines it and point the bad guy finger at MAggs and see we offered the $$ he wanted. Well i say no you didn't you offered probably half of that and told him he will get the other half when he is not in this country and 60 years old. Forget it. I dont know of any teams that lock up superstar players that way.

First - the Yankees do it (Sheffield has a part of his money deferred), other teams do it. It is a financial tool to provide budgetary flexibility. That's all. I don't want to look up who else (star players) have this done, but it happens all over by teams with budgets similar to the Sox, and some with bigger budgets.

Second, the cost of 1$ deferred 1 year, in todays terms, is only about $1.04. The cost of 1mm deferred one year is 1,040,000. So for 40,000 per million, per year, Magglio can have it ALL this year if he wants it. The team however, due to MLB team debt restrictions and team financing rules, may not be able to do it.

Third, like I said before, is that if this all comes down to a few hundred grand, and JR is trying to fit it into a budget set by the 40+ owners, and Magglio refuses to move money into the back half of the deal to make it possible, then he never wanted to be here anyhow - and that money can be very well used on other players. I like Maggs. I want him to stay. But if he doesn't want to be here enough to possibly take a few hundred thoulsand less over the course of a 50mm deal, then we will be outbid - and he will leave.

Buh Bye...Have fun in NY or California. You will miss Sox fans and the Chicago media very much after dealing with either NY or LA fans/media.

Blob
07-06-2004, 03:38 PM
What's the difference if he gets the same amount each year for 5 years or if he gets more each year his contract goes on for 5 years? NOTHING!!!! He still gets the same amount of money over that time frame!

That's almost like arguing over 1 million dollars on a contract. If he wanted $13M and they wanted to pay him $12M how much difference is that 1 extra million going to make at that point? None...

If Maggs truely means what he says, that he wants to stay in Chicago, he will sign this deal.

harwar
07-06-2004, 03:50 PM
What's the difference if he gets the same amount each year for 5 years or if he gets more each year his contract goes on for 5 years? NOTHING!!!! He still gets the same amount of money over that time frame!

That's almost like arguing over 1 million dollars on a contract. If he wanted $13M and they wanted to pay him $12M how much difference is that 1 extra million going to make at that point? None...

If Maggs truely means what he says, that he wants to stay in Chicago, he will sign this deal.
I would somewhat surprised if it were Maggs calling the shots on this one.
Its the blood-sucking leetch of an agent that will "take care of everything" for him and his family.

34 Inch Stick
07-06-2004, 04:01 PM
I don't see how we blame Magglio for wanting an extra 500,000-1 million a year and not JR for not offering that amount. Who do you think has more money in his coffers.

By the way, I am of the opinion that 500,000 is a lot of money to ANYBODY.

Dadawg_77
07-06-2004, 04:01 PM
What's the difference if he gets the same amount each year for 5 years or if he gets more each year his contract goes on for 5 years? NOTHING!!!! He still gets the same amount of money over that time frame!

That's almost like arguing over 1 million dollars on a contract. If he wanted $13M and they wanted to pay him $12M how much difference is that 1 extra million going to make at that point? None...

If Maggs truely means what he says, that he wants to stay in Chicago, he will sign this deal.Net present value, the dollar I have today is worth more then the dollar I get tomorrow because of inflation.

Dadawg_77
07-06-2004, 04:02 PM
I don't see how we blame Magglio for wanting an extra 500,000-1 million a year and not JR for not offering that amount. Who do you think has more money in his coffers.

By the way, I am of the opinion that 500,000 is a lot of money to ANYBODY.
Some people are buying the PR spin the Sox are putting out there just in case Mags does leave.

jabrch
07-06-2004, 04:02 PM
What's the difference if he gets the same amount each year for 5 years or if he gets more each year his contract goes on for 5 years? NOTHING!!!! He still gets the same amount of money over that time frame!

That's almost like arguing over 1 million dollars on a contract. If he wanted $13M and they wanted to pay him $12M how much difference is that 1 extra million going to make at that point? None...

If Maggs truely means what he says, that he wants to stay in Chicago, he will sign this deal.
simply put, the difference is 3.5 - 4 cents per 1$ per year; that's all.

Malgar 12
07-06-2004, 04:23 PM
What's the difference if he gets the same amount each year for 5 years or if he gets more each year his contract goes on for 5 years? NOTHING!!!! He still gets the same amount of money over that time frame!

That's almost like arguing over 1 million dollars on a contract. If he wanted $13M and they wanted to pay him $12M how much difference is that 1 extra million going to make at that point? None...

If Maggs truely means what he says, that he wants to stay in Chicago, he will sign this deal.I agree that at a certain point it all becomes "a lot of money" either way. But anybody who's taken a finance class can tell you that there can be a big difference in the total number of $$'s because of the "time value of money". (A bird in the hand...$$ today can be invested and have a return..)The more backloaded a contract is, the less its worth. Is it worth quibbling over? Probably not, if Magglio wants to stay. But there is a difference. It can be quite a significant difference based on the rate of return and the actual numbers involved.

If this were not the case, then Uncle Jerry would just pony up the extra "$1 million", because there is no value in trying to "defer" or "backload" some of the $$$.

Flight #24
07-06-2004, 04:44 PM
Some people are buying the PR spin the Sox are putting out there just in case Mags does leave.
While others buy the player's spin that "I really wanted to stay, and would have taken less, but they just wouldn't give me a fair offer".

Mickster
07-06-2004, 05:13 PM
While others buy the player's spin that "I really wanted to stay, and would have taken less, but they just wouldn't give me a fair offer".
:duel:

Dadawg_77
07-06-2004, 05:43 PM
While others buy the player's spin that "I really wanted to stay, and would have taken less, but they just wouldn't give me a fair offer".
True, but I buy neither both are BS to me. But I see some posters already telling Mags not to let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

Flight #24
07-06-2004, 08:51 PM
For what it's worth:

George Ofman was just discussing Ordonez's contract talks at lengthe and opined that the biggest holdup may not be the number of years but, big shocker, the amount of money Uncle Jerry wants to defer. Ofman said Ordonez may take less money overall, but more up front, to play elsewhere.

They had a quote from Maggs on a little while ago saying that talks broke off today. That was his direct quote, that he wanted to stay here, but that they were too far apart, and as of today, they weren't talking anymore.

Not sure how true that is since IIRC, we've heard basically the same thing before. But that was his quote, supposedly from today's interview.

Ofman of course went on to say that while the $$$ were fine (less than 70m, something around 12/yr) - that the deferrals were making it unworkable for Maggs despite his willingness to take less than "market" to stay.

Hopefully it's all posturing. I have a hard time believing that for a couple of mil total/5 yrs that Maggs would leave his only team and a team that's showing that they'll put the resources in to build a contender. Similarly I have a hard time imagining the Sox letting him walk away for the same.

Lip Man 1
07-07-2004, 02:02 AM
I don't think it's 'posturing.' This has been going on for months. I think both sides have stated their cases for what it is going to take and both sides have basically said they are not moving from those positions.

Regardless of whether you think Maggs is worth what he is asking for, the odds are good that some other club WILL give him what he wants. Nobody can deny Maggs is a damn good player.

I think he's gone and I think it would behhove Williams to start exploring options while he still has a chance to get something for him. I don't like it but those are the facts.

Also frankly I think the fans and very possibly his teammates are tired of reading, hearing and seeing all the BS and want this done one way or another. I think it is becomming a distraction and God knows this team doesn't have the strongest makeup mentally.

Lip

kittle42
07-07-2004, 11:13 AM
I guess, given the other thread going on here, that Ofman turned out to be right.

joeynach
07-07-2004, 11:52 AM
I agree that at a certain point it all becomes "a lot of money" either way. But anybody who's taken a finance class can tell you that there can be a big difference in the total number of $$'s because of the "time value of money". (A bird in the hand...$$ today can be invested and have a return..)The more backloaded a contract is, the less its worth. Is it worth quibbling over? Probably not, if Magglio wants to stay. But there is a difference. It can be quite a significant difference based on the rate of return and the actual numbers involved.

If this were not the case, then Uncle Jerry would just pony up the extra "$1 million", because there is no value in trying to "defer" or "backload" some of the $$$.
Maggs current contract was backloaded and he didn't object. He signed a 3 year deal in 02. He got 6.5 mil in 02, 9 in 03, and now 14 in 04. Whats the problem. Did the value of the dollar he signed in 2002 change over the three seasons. NO. The inflation rate was very very low, less than 2%. So deffered money contract take on either the current rate of inflation or more to compensate the player with extra revenue for his $$ being deffered. If a 5 year deal had deffered money in it Maggs would stand to make more than whats on the paper. 12 mil would turn into 12.5 mil over the terms of payment plan. Depending on the interest rate, inflation rate, and years. So if Maggs is worried that if he signs for 12 mil now deffered and gets paid in 2012 that the value of the 12 mil would not be the same he is right. It would be more. Interest rates have been at an all time low and are only going to go up now over the next several years. That means the interest rate given to his deffered payments will be say something like 1-2 % greater than the inflation rate. So 12 million today will be payed in total to him as 12.x million or more later on. I dont really see why this is a hold up, are his agenst graduates from Robert Morris College.

jabrch
07-07-2004, 11:59 AM
Can we still get Jones and Ortiz from Atlanta? Any chance we can get Estrada somehow in the deal?

Dadawg_77
07-07-2004, 12:11 PM
Maggs current contract was backloaded and he didn't object. He signed a 3 year deal in 02. He got 6.5 mil in 02, 9 in 03, and now 14 in 04. Whats the problem. Did the value of the dollar he signed in 2002 change over the three seasons. NO. The inflation rate was very very low, less than 2%. So deffered money contract take on either the current rate of inflation or more to compensate the player with extra revenue for his $$ being deffered. If a 5 year deal had deffered money in it Maggs would stand to make more than whats on the paper. 12 mil would turn into 12.5 mil over the terms of payment plan. Depending on the interest rate, inflation rate, and years. So if Maggs is worried that if he signs for 12 mil now deffered and gets paid in 2012 that the value of the 12 mil would not be the same he is right. It would be more. Interest rates have been at an all time low and are only going to go up now over the next several years. That means the interest rate given to his deffered payments will be say something like 1-2 % greater than the inflation rate. So 12 million today will be payed in total to him as 12.x million or more later on. I dont really see why this is a hold up, are his agenst graduates from Robert Morris College.
Well you are missing the fact that Mags had four years of service time in 02, meaning there was two years of arbitration left. The way arbitration works is a fourth year player makes less then a fifth year player, thus the 6 to nine million jump, this was there to reflect jump a player would receive in arbitration. The 04 is his seventh year of service time so the Sox bought out Mags first year he could become a UFA for 14 million. The scale there reflects the increased leverage the Sox had before Mags obtained 6 years of service time and this year reflects the greater amount of leverage Mags has having more then six years of service time. Thus that contract structure is irrelevant because the situation under which it was signed doesn't exist any more.

duke of dorwood
07-07-2004, 12:15 PM
I don't listen to a word jag-Offman says ever since his April Fools day garbage. He can go suck it along with the rest of his score co-workers. :angry:
Someone agrees with me-thousands should when it comes to 67hole

Kogs35
07-07-2004, 12:21 PM
Someone agrees with me-thousands should when it comes to 67hole
i have never belived one thing from the snore crap radio 670 in 6 years. its always garbage and they will never be a sports radio station until they get rid of half the on air staff. murph i went my pants when i talk about the cubs and fred i think im a sox fan when im really not hubner need to go. boares and bernice just plain out suck. north's act needs to go. the only 2 good host over at 670 is me and z. thats it

Gammons Peter
07-07-2004, 12:43 PM
I used to be a fan of Murph when he was on evenings, but I can't listen to him anymore. Listen to his fake laugh EVERY time he introduces a guest. He'll say "hot phone ringing, hey everbody it's ..... from STAATS Inc. hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah. What the hell is so funny, it's a nervous tic that I'm sure he doesn't even realize, but it drives me crazy