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View Full Version : Why Shingo in the 8th?


hawkjt
07-05-2004, 05:48 PM
Don't you save the closer for the ninth? He is a one inning guy and he should have been held out until the ninth. If you dont score in the ninth he never gets in but you lose anyway. Marte is the set-up guy and he is much more likely to walk a guy with bases-loaded than Shingo. Even bringing in Marte is suspect as he and Cotts both struggle with control against leftys because of their drop -down sidearm style. They walk many more leftys who supposedly they should be able to get out easier. I had a bad feeling when Shingo came out in the eighth. Ozzie is a rookie and it shows.

Kogs35
07-05-2004, 06:07 PM
Don't you save the closer for the ninth? He is a one inning guy and he should have been held out until the ninth. If you dont score in the ninth he never gets in but you lose anyway. Marte is the set-up guy and he is much more likely to walk a guy with bases-loaded than Shingo. Even bringing in Marte is suspect as he and Cotts both struggle with control against leftys because of their drop -down sidearm style. They walk many more leftys who supposedly they should be able to get out easier. I had a bad feeling when Shingo came out in the eighth. Ozzie is a rookie and it shows.
shingo pitched in the 8th because it was a 1-0 game and they had the chance to come back. marte can also close. dont forget about that. rivera comes in during the 8th sometimes as well as folke,benites,smoltz,k-rod, and many more.

Voice of Reason
07-05-2004, 06:09 PM
Don't you save the closer for the ninth? He is a one inning guy and he should have been held out until the ninth. If you dont score in the ninth he never gets in but you lose anyway. Marte is the set-up guy and he is much more likely to walk a guy with bases-loaded than Shingo. Even bringing in Marte is suspect as he and Cotts both struggle with control against leftys because of their drop -down sidearm style. They walk many more leftys who supposedly they should be able to get out easier. I had a bad feeling when Shingo came out in the eighth. Ozzie is a rookie and it shows.
He brought in Shingo because he wanted his best pitcher in to keep us in a game we were only trailing by one. Makes sense to me.

space_monkey
07-05-2004, 06:25 PM
Don't you save the closer for the ninth? He is a one inning guy and he should have been held out until the ninth. If you dont score in the ninth he never gets in but you lose anyway. Marte is the set-up guy and he is much more likely to walk a guy with bases-loaded than Shingo. Even bringing in Marte is suspect as he and Cotts both struggle with control against leftys because of their drop -down sidearm style. They walk many more leftys who supposedly they should be able to get out easier. I had a bad feeling when Shingo came out in the eighth. Ozzie is a rookie and it shows.While I would almost rather have shingo stick it out for better or for worse in the ninth there, one must remember that marte destroys lefties. right now they are hitting a very robust .102 against him. Hes walked around the same number of lefites and righties, but a little surprisingly, he has seen fewer left handed hitters, so I suppose control may have been an issue. I guess Ozzie cant call em perfect every time, as we all probably know. Of course,hes still DA MAN (Ozzie)

PaleHoseGeorge
07-05-2004, 06:28 PM
While I would almost rather have shingo stick it out for better or for worse in the ninth there, one must remember that marte destroys lefties. right now they are hitting a very robust .102 against him. Hes walked around the same number of lefites and righties, but a little surprisingly, he has seen fewer left handed hitters, so I suppose control may have been an issue. I guess Ozzie cant call em perfect every time, as we all probably know. Of course,hes still DA MAN (Ozzie)
LOL, Space_Monkey. Is this a reference to the old John Prine song? :rolleyes:

WinningUgly!
07-05-2004, 06:40 PM
Don't you save the closer for the ninth? He is a one inning guy and he should have been held out until the ninth. If you dont score in the ninth he never gets in but you lose anyway. Marte is the set-up guy and he is much more likely to walk a guy with bases-loaded than Shingo. Even bringing in Marte is suspect as he and Cotts both struggle with control against leftys because of their drop -down sidearm style. They walk many more leftys who supposedly they should be able to get out easier. I had a bad feeling when Shingo came out in the eighth. Ozzie is a rookie and it shows.
Ozzie brought Shingo into the game in the 8th, because he is our best RP & the lead had to be kept at only one run! What good would it have done to allow them to increase the lead they already had? We ended up with our best power hitters batting in the 9th inning, only down one run & Lee tied it up. I don't know why it's such a big deal that Shingo pitched 2 innings. If Marte would've been able to finish off Walker, after having him down 0-2, we probably wouldn't even be talking about this.

jenmcm76
07-05-2004, 06:44 PM
When they brought in Shingo, it appeared that the 8th would be the last inning for the Cubs batters (though we all hoped it wouldn't be). It didn't make much sense to save him for the 9th when it didn't look like we'd get that far in the game.

idseer
07-05-2004, 07:21 PM
hawkjt makes a very good point imo. it's rule of thumb that you don't bring in your closer unless you have a lead. you'll never see rivera or gagne or any other closer brought in a run down ..... unless there are unusual circumstances.

you have to make up your mind who your closer is, and i believe that oz STILL does not see shingo as his closer. it's still an experiment with him and i think that's a mistake. give him the job until he loses it.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-05-2004, 07:31 PM
hawkjt makes a very good point imo. it's rule of thumb that you don't bring in your closer unless you have a lead. you'll never see rivera or gagne or any other closer brought in a run down ..... unless there are unusual circumstances.

you have to make up your mind who your closer is, and i believe that oz STILL does not see shingo as his closer. it's still an experiment with him and i think that's a mistake. give him the job until he loses it.
I agree. Takatsu mixes speeds and I'm afraid hitters wise up to his stuff pretty quick. Lord knows they can get around on it. He has been very consistent and (to my recollection) hasn't had a bad outing as closer until last night when Ozzie made him pitch the eighth and the ninth, too.

Compared to all the heart attack closers we've had in the past (Koch, Foulke, Howry, Hernandez, Thigpen), Takatsu leaves my ticker relatively stress-free. He deserves the job until he proves incapable of doing it well.

SEALgep
07-05-2004, 08:39 PM
hawkjt makes a very good point imo. it's rule of thumb that you don't bring in your closer unless you have a lead. you'll never see rivera or gagne or any other closer brought in a run down ..... unless there are unusual circumstances.

you have to make up your mind who your closer is, and i believe that oz STILL does not see shingo as his closer. it's still an experiment with him and i think that's a mistake. give him the job until he loses it.That's not true. Those guys have come into games when they're team was behind. There's nothing wrong with it. In a 1-0 game that has high significance, and with other options to close it out, sometimes it's better to do so. This wasn't a bad move.

SEALgep
07-05-2004, 08:41 PM
I agree. Takatsu mixes speeds and I'm afraid hitters wise up to his stuff pretty quick. Lord knows they can get around on it. He has been very consistent and (to my recollection) hasn't had a bad outing as closer until last night when Ozzie made him pitch the eighth and the ninth, too.

Compared to all the heart attack closers we've had in the past (Koch, Foulke, Howry, Hernandez, Thigpen), Takatsu leaves my ticker relatively stress-free. He deserves the job until he proves incapable of doing it well.Nobody figured Takatsu out. He didn't throw strikes, which is why he didn't have success last night. It was one game, and every other outing he was throwing strikes, which is why he is successful.

WinningUgly!
07-05-2004, 08:44 PM
That's not true. Those guys have come into games when they're team was behind. There's nothing wrong with it. In a 1-0 game that has high significance, and with other options to close it out, sometimes it's better to do so. This wasn't a bad move.
I agree. I can remember 2 or 3 times, from this year alone, that Joe Torre has brought Mariano Rivera into tight games, while the Yankees were either tied or trailing by a run or two.

Cuck the Fubs
07-05-2004, 09:27 PM
Shingo just has a control issue.........he's human. Either way Ozzie would get roasted, I thought it was a good move.

fuzzy_patters
07-06-2004, 12:57 AM
I think you guys are missing one thing. The Sox had tonight off, and Shingo had not pitched since Wednesday. If Ozzie had not used him on Sunday, Shingo would have gone a minimum of 6 games without pitching, and there is no guarantee that tomorrow's game will have a save situation, either. Ozzie had to pitch him to keep him in a regular rhythm. As for bringing him in in the eighth, we were trailing on the road so Ozzie did not know there would be a bottom half of the ninth for sure.