PDA

View Full Version : Konerko's Trade Value at Peak


DickAllen72
06-29-2004, 05:20 PM
Everyone knows the fundamental rule: Buy low and sell high.

Paul Konerko has been tearing it up lately, and was the hero of our series with the Cubs. He's near the top of the league in Home Runs.

If the Sox ever want to trade him and his $8 million contract, the time is right.

Nothing against Paulie, but business is business, and unfortuneately Baseball has become more business than sport.

I wonder if, for instance, Atlanta would deal Jones and Ortiz for Konerko instead of Mags. Jones seems to be at a low point but just may be able to turn it around in a new situation. Konerko gives Atlanta a hot bat and enables them to get out of Jones big contract.

Or how about Konerko and Rauch for Benson and Kendall, then we sell Benson to the Yankees for half of Kendall's salary?

Dadawg_77
06-29-2004, 05:30 PM
Everyone knows the fundamental rule: Buy low and sell high.

Paul Konerko has been tearing it up lately, and was the hero of our series with the Cubs. He's near the top of the league in Home Runs.

If the Sox ever want to trade him and his $8 million contract, the time is right.

Nothing against Paulie, but business is business, and unfortuneately Baseball has become more business than sport.

I wonder if, for instance, Atlanta would deal Jones and Ortiz for Konerko instead of Mags. Jones seems to be at a low point but just may be able to turn it around in a new situation. Konerko gives Atlanta a hot bat and enables them to get out of Jones big contract.

Or how about Konerko and Rauch for Benson and Kendall, then we sell Benson to the Yankees for half of Kendall's salary?
Braves could do it, also Boston is in the market for a first baseman. They have anything we would want, that they would give up? I would love to see a Konerko for Youkillis and Williamson trade.

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 06:03 PM
Everyone knows the fundamental rule: Buy low and sell high.

Paul Konerko has been tearing it up lately, and was the hero of our series with the Cubs. He's near the top of the league in Home Runs.

If the Sox ever want to trade him and his $8 million contract, the time is right.

Nothing against Paulie, but business is business, and unfortuneately Baseball has become more business than sport.

I wonder if, for instance, Atlanta would deal Jones and Ortiz for Konerko instead of Mags. Jones seems to be at a low point but just may be able to turn it around in a new situation. Konerko gives Atlanta a hot bat and enables them to get out of Jones big contract.

Or how about Konerko and Rauch for Benson and Kendall, then we sell Benson to the Yankees for half of Kendall's salary?Or, if you're REALLY going for it.....

Mid to low level prospects to Pittsburgh for Kendall+cash for half his salary (which I think they were willing to do for San Diego)

Konerko+Rauch to Atlanta for Jones+Ortiz+Cruz

Then in the offseason, let Maggs go, resign Freddy+Elo, and end up with a net increase in salary of like 10-15mil.

(is there a "deep pink"-er color to reflect how pipe-dreamy that really is?)

EDIT: What the hell, since I'm ho far out there I might as well start doping.....win the WS, raise payroll to 100mil, and keep Maggs, Freddy, Garcia, Valentin.

HITMEN OF 77
06-29-2004, 06:05 PM
Let's trade the guy who bailed us out of the Cubs series, is a fan favorite and is a key to us getting to the post season. Um No!!

DaveIsHere
06-29-2004, 06:05 PM
Leave the Konk out of this


Edit-I just noted that was post 500 YYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAA
And the wife would be happy that I was fighting for Konerko on this one too

lowesox
06-29-2004, 06:08 PM
I'm all for trading a guy when his value is high, but

a) I question whether his value truly is at its peak
b) This team just lost a valuable member to its chemisty - and chemistry is very important.

Kadafi311
06-29-2004, 06:08 PM
Leave the Konk out of this
Agreed.

DickAllen72
06-29-2004, 06:11 PM
Let's trade the guy who bailed us out of the Cubs series, is a fan favorite and is a key to us getting to the post season. Um No!!

I hope Konerko continues to produce the way he has been for the rest of the season. But realistically, when was the last time Paulie produced for a whole season? Last year he was terrible until maybe mid july, was red hot, then cooled off in September when we needed him to make the playoffs. The year before, he was red hot until the all-star break then after a foot injury did nothing for the rest of the season.

I like Paulie. He seems like a good guy and he seems like he always gives 100%. He was our hero against the Cubs last weekend. he's been producing lately, and we have ridden his hot streak to 1 game out of first.

It's like owning a stock that goes way up in value. You can sell it and take your profit and invest in another good stock, or you can fall in love with that stock and hold it while it levels off or falls down.

The way to run a ML baseball club that wants to win it all is knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.

SpringfldFan
06-29-2004, 06:19 PM
The old axiom applies: "when you are going good you are never as good as you think." Mark my words, Konerko is going to wind up the season at about .270 with around 27 hrs. If that is indeed the case, I am all for trading him high. Fan favorite? I know the girlies like Konerko, but as they say in politics, he has high negatives also. I remember hearing a lot of terms like "albatross", "slug", "selfish", "one dimensional", etc. Where are all those comments now? You don't think we will ever see them again?

Nick@Nite
06-29-2004, 06:37 PM
Frank will never be an everyday 1st baseman.

PK's production has been terrific this season.

As long as Konerko doesn't get roped into another Homerun Hitting contest against Sosa during the ASG festivities, we'll have a damn good offensive combo in Paulie & Hurt at 1st base.

Mohoney
06-29-2004, 07:31 PM
:woo-woo

"Woo! Bad trade! Woo!"

HITMEN OF 77
06-29-2004, 07:36 PM
[QUOTE=SpringfldFan] Mark my words, Konerko is going to wind up the season at about .270 with around 27 hrs. QUOTE]

And that's bad production? We would take that every year from him. He will hit at least 33 hr's this year and well over 100 rbi's.

Mohoney
06-29-2004, 07:40 PM
The old axiom applies: "when you are going good you are never as good as you think." Mark my words, Konerko is going to wind up the season at about .270 with around 27 hrs. If that is indeed the case, I am all for trading him high. Fan favorite? I know the girlies like Konerko, but as they say in politics, he has high negatives also. I remember hearing a lot of terms like "albatross", "slug", "selfish", "one dimensional", etc. Where are all those comments now? You don't think we will ever see them again?

I'll take that bet. Expect at LEAST .285+ and 30+ HRs from Paulie. When Maggs comes back, Carlos Lee will hit 5th and Valentin will hit 7th and provide exponentially better protection than Valentin at 5th and Gload/Crede/Perez/whoever hits 7th that day.

He's doing pretty well considering that he had to sit half the games in NL parks and that our #7 spot isn't providing that much protection. He really doesn't get many good pitches. He really is doing a fantastic job murdering mistake pitches. So he had a slump during NL play. Big deal.

After the series he just had, anybody even ENTERTAINING thoughts of trading him is nuts, value or no.

I don't want Johnny Estrada and Andruw Jones. I want to give up farmhands, KEEP THE PARENT CLUB INTACT, and get Jason Kendall and Steve Finley and WIN NOW!

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 09:15 PM
I agree, Konerko's just having his annual hot streak. Next up: the coma.

fquaye149
06-29-2004, 09:26 PM
I agree, Konerko's just having his annual hot streak. Next up: the coma.
Maybe. although he did well last year in the second half. And he does go in cycles, so if he gets cold again soon, that means he'll have plenty of time to get hot again.

guillen4life13
06-29-2004, 10:20 PM
I've never been too big a fan of Paulie, mainly because of his affinity for grounding into double plays. He's an extremely streaky hitter, and when he's hot, he can carry the team. However, if he's cold, he brings down the team. At this point, I would not be against trading him in order to plug a need or two. Konehead will cool off. Mark my words. I say the Sox should trade him while they can so that they can get some legit talent in return. He's relatively cheap for a 1B, but I have confidence in the Sox being able to cope.

Frank is not as bad a defensive 1B as he's made out to be. He did it for a number of years, so I don't see why he can't do it again.

I wouldn't be against getting a guy with good playoff experience like Tino Martinez. Would you?

AnkleSox
06-29-2004, 10:36 PM
I think it really depends on how his relationship is with the rest of the team. There have been rumors that he's "clubhouse cancer" and what not, but when i watch the game he seems to get along with everyone.

It's not easy to tell by listening to the media or simply watching the game, but I'm sure KW knows how well he gets along with the team, and he probably will deal him if it turns out he is a big a-hole. But if everyone likes him, he should stay because the Sox don't need to lose anymore chemistry.

Tragg
06-29-2004, 10:45 PM
Everyone knows the fundamental rule: Buy low and sell high.

Paul Konerko has been tearing it up lately, and was the hero of our series with the Cubs. He's near the top of the league in Home Runs.

If the Sox ever want to trade him and his $8 million contract, the time is right.

Nothing against Paulie, but business is business, and unfortuneately Baseball has become more business than sport.

I wonder if, for instance, Atlanta would deal Jones and Ortiz for Konerko instead of Mags. Jones seems to be at a low point but just may be able to turn it around in a new situation. Konerko gives Atlanta a hot bat and enables them to get out of Jones big contract.

Or how about Konerko and Rauch for Benson and Kendall, then we sell Benson to the Yankees for half of Kendall's salary?
???? We're trying to win a WS, not a value championship. Compare Kendall's numers to Konerko's- it's a HUGE downgrade. Now lose RAcuh- for what exactly?
An injury prone fifth starter.
Kendall has 2 home runs this year- less than Olivo and the same as Sandy.
You get no bonus points for having a fair hitting catcher. It counts just as any position.
The insanity is the fixation on Kendall and his 8 Million

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 11:05 PM
Compare Kendall's numers to Konerko's- it's a HUGE downgrade.
Bull****. They're different kinds of hitters, but Kendall's on-base skills are at least as valuable as Konerko's power. In our lineup, they would be much more valuable.

OBP is arguably the most important offensive measurement. Kendall's career OBP is .386 (excellent) compared to Konerko's .344 (slightly above average).

OPS is the other candidate for most important stat. Kendall's career OPS is .805, which is not far below Konerko's .821.

You may not get bonus points for being a good-hitting catcher, but it's a lot harder to find that kind of production in a catcher. Konerko in his career is just about even with Brian Daubach: .342 OBP, .820 OPS.

DickAllen72
06-29-2004, 11:06 PM
???? We're trying to win a WS, not a value championship. Compare Kendall's numers to Konerko's- it's a HUGE downgrade. Now lose RAcuh- for what exactly?
An injury prone fifth starter.
Kendall has 2 home runs this year- less than Olivo and the same as Sandy.
You get no bonus points for having a fair hitting catcher. It counts just as any position.
The insanity is the fixation on Kendall and his 8 Million

Are you (and others responding to this thread) saying Konerko is untouchable?
The main point of my post is that if you want to trade Konerko for another player(s), NOW is the time, not when he's cold.

As to the comparison with Kendall--A good catcher is harder to find than a good first baseman, and more valuable as well. Would I trade a streaky power hitting 1Ber for a good defensive consistant .300 hitting catcher? You bet. Especially if we can get someone else to pay half his salary.

Look, I like Paulie. I hope he hits .320 with 50 home runs! He's a darn good defensive first baseman as well. But history shows us he's hot and cold. When he's hot he can carry you, when he's not he can bury you. We can either live with that and his 8million plus salary--or if we want to exchange him for something else we can do it NOW. A couple of months ago we couldn't give him away. Now we could probably get a good return for him. That's my real point.

Whitesox029
06-29-2004, 11:17 PM
Everyone knows the fundamental rule: Buy low and sell high.

Paul Konerko has been tearing it up lately, and was the hero of our series with the Cubs. He's near the top of the league in Home Runs.

If the Sox ever want to trade him and his $8 million contract, the time is right.

Nothing against Paulie, but business is business, and unfortuneately Baseball has become more business than sport.

I wonder if, for instance, Atlanta would deal Jones and Ortiz for Konerko instead of Mags. Jones seems to be at a low point but just may be able to turn it around in a new situation. Konerko gives Atlanta a hot bat and enables them to get out of Jones big contract.

Or how about Konerko and Rauch for Benson and Kendall, then we sell Benson to the Yankees for half of Kendall's salary?Trading Konerko is stupid, IMO. All of you who have already heard me post on this subject should already know this. We will have 5 legitimate starters as soon as Schoeny comes back. Why in hell do we need to trade one of our big bats (like it or not, he's one of our best players, no matter how much you guys all love to bash on him when he slumps) in order to get something we already have? Konerko is signed. It's not like he's going to run off at the end of the season and leave us empty-handed. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's what everyone said at the end of 2000 and then we ended up with that fat slob/clubhouse cancer known as David Wells because the sox didn't follow that advice. We're now tied for first, and we're the ones with the momentum. Let's slow down the trade rumors for a while, huh?

Tragg
06-29-2004, 11:20 PM
Are you (and others responding to this thread) saying Konerko is untouchable?
The main point of my post is that if you want to trade Konerko for another player(s), NOW is the time, not when he's cold.

As to the comparison with Kendall--A good catcher is harder to find than a good first baseman, and more valuable as well. Would I trade a streaky power hitting 1Ber for a good defensive consistant .300 hitting catcher? You bet. Especially if we can get someone else to pay half his salary.

Look, I like Paulie. I hope he hits .320 with 50 home runs! He's a darn good defensive first baseman as well. But history shows us he's hot and cold. When he's hot he can carry you, when he's not he can bury you. We can either live with that and his 8million plus salary--or if we want to exchange him for something else we can do it NOW. A couple of months ago we couldn't give him away. Now we could probably get a good return for him. That's my real point.He's not untouchable but trading PRODUCTIVE players is not what I think we should do.
Andruw Jones is in a 4 year offensive decline, yet we're looking at him and his 13 MM guaranteed.
Kendall is a nice hitter- not an ounce of power, but a good hitter. we gotta beat the yankees- we need power. It really doesn't matter the position it comes from- 95% of teams will have at least one offensive hole - let ours be Catcher for the simple reasonn that it's the most expensive hole to fill. How much would Kendall be worth as an outfielder? 50% of his value I'd guess.

So we put Frank at first (ooh the D), who DH's? We'll have just about the worst DH situation in the league. A 250/15 homerun guy at DH is a bigger hole than a 220 hitter at catcher.

What we NEED offensively, imo, is a lefthanded hitter. I haven't looked at Jones' splits BUT if his LH skills aren't in decline then maybe, maybe I'd go for that in some trade.

DickAllen72
06-29-2004, 11:26 PM
Actually I think Gload would be the regular 1B, with Frank playing there maybe once a week just to keep the rust off. That is, IF Konerko were to be traded.

Again, I'm not advocating "dumping" Konerko. I want top talent in return if we do trade him. I'm just saying now is when he's worth the most in trade value.

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 11:30 PM
Kendall is a nice hitter- not an ounce of power, but a good hitter. we gotta beat the yankees- we need power. It really doesn't matter the position it comes from- 95% of teams will have at least one offensive hole - let ours be Catcher for the simple reasonn that it's the most expensive hole to fill. How much would Kendall be worth as an outfielder? 50% of his value I'd guess.
We've got power. We've had power the last several years. We've had more solo homers than any team I can remember.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that power is more important than getting on base. Go, read, learn. It's not my job to educate you.

fquaye149
06-29-2004, 11:35 PM
We've got power. We've had power the last several years. We've had more solo homers than any team I can remember.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that power is more important than getting on base. Go, read, learn. It's not my job to educate you.
we have power. we dont' need more power, and we do need obp guys. you're right on all counts. but obp is only good with a meaty order - or at least people who can drive them in.

we can get kendall w/o giving up paulie, so why give him up? if we give away our power because "we have power" we won't have the power anymore.

sorry if that seems condescending, i don't mean it to be.

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 11:48 PM
obp is only good with a meaty order - or at least people who can drive them in.
But this isn't true. On-base percentage is the direct opposite of making outs. On-base percentage is the key to long rallies and big innings.

The 1982 Cardinals hit 67 homers and won the World Series. They made it back to the Series twice (hitting just 59 homers in 1987).

Tragg
06-29-2004, 11:57 PM
But this isn't true. On-base percentage is the direct opposite of making outs. On-base percentage is the key to long rallies and big innings.

The 1982 Cardinals hit 67 homers and won the World Series. They made it back to the Series twice (hitting just 59 homers in 1987).
Fine- let's trade Valentin and some prospects for him.
I agree with you about OBP (although the cards were a different era- also old era, the orioles did it with a 3 run jack)- but eventually you do have to drive them in. And a homer is more valuable than a single.

Also, I wonder how many of Kendall's BBs are intentional.

And then don't forget, what will you have left at DH? You have to look at that relatively. A half year of Perez at DH would likely kill us.

A. Cavatica
06-30-2004, 12:41 AM
Fine- let's trade Valentin and some prospects for him.
I agree with you about OBP (although the cards were a different era- also old era, the orioles did it with a 3 run jack)- but eventually you do have to drive them in. And a homer is more valuable than a single.

Also, I wonder how many of Kendall's BBs are intentional.

And then don't forget, what will you have left at DH? You have to look at that relatively. A half year of Perez at DH would likely kill us.
Pittsburgh is set at shortstop. They could really use a first baseman or a left fielder.

Until we get another lefthanded hitter, Valentin needs to play somewhere. I think our best lineup would be Uribe at short, Harris at second...and after trading PK, Valentin at first against RHP. We could pick up a platoon partner for him very cheaply. (If Ozzie wants Thomas at first, the platoon arrangement is at DH.)

Those Oriole teams always had good on-base percentages and power, hence the three run homers. Earl was right, that is the way to win ballgames.

I would doubt Kendall gets many intentional BBs. Intentional BBs are usually saved for power hitters.

OurBitchinMinny
06-30-2004, 12:46 AM
Im against trading konerko. I cant stomach watching frank play first. Id rather trade frank. But for this season you have to keep both unless someone blows you away with an offer

MRKARNO
06-30-2004, 12:46 AM
When you have Maggs, THomas, Lee, Valentin and Konerko in the middle of your lineup, you dont want to break that up. Kendall's upgrade from Alomar/Burke isnt worth the downgrade between Konerko and Gload, nor the extra 4-5 mil per and extra year

WSox8404
06-30-2004, 12:51 AM
Well I don't know if it is Konerko who will get traded, but it may very well be. However, I do know that there are more trades coming. I have a very, very close source and he said wait until July. He wouldn't go into detail about anything, but he said there are things brewing. So hang tight folks. This is going to turn interesting.

Kuzman
06-30-2004, 01:08 AM
hell lets find out where todd ritchie is and just trade him for konerko straight up.. we all know pitching is pivotal in a pennat race
:threadblows:

MRKARNO
06-30-2004, 01:27 AM
I really cant imagine very many players that we could realistically get for Paul Konerko that would help us more than Konerko. If we're going to get another starter, the player to trade is Maggs, who is not signed through 2005 like Konerko is.

gosox41
06-30-2004, 01:57 AM
Maybe. although he did well last year in the second half. And he does go in cycles, so if he gets cold again soon, that means he'll have plenty of time to get hot again.
KOnerko's hot and cold streaks tend to be long, about half a season. I hope he breaks the trend this year.


Bob

hawkjt
06-30-2004, 02:15 AM
I know all about Paulie and Jose ' historys but they are very responsible for us being in first place. Now if you want to move them for propects then that is giving up. Won't happen. Moving them for what? Jose is in the contract drive of his career and he is playing his ass off defensively and offensively. He aint going anywhere. Paulie is a hardass baseball player who wants to win. He has slumps like everyone else but what if he does not have one? He had a horrible May and he is on track for 40 hrs. and 110 Rbis. He might end up with more than that if he avoids a bad month. No folks any trades will be minor at this point to secure that right-handed bullpen help. I can live with this roster as it sits without Jackson maybe.

guillen4life13
07-01-2004, 01:00 AM
I know all about Paulie and Jose ' historys but they are very responsible for us being in first place. Now if you want to move them for propects then that is giving up. Won't happen. Moving them for what? Jose is in the contract drive of his career and he is playing his ass off defensively and offensively. He aint going anywhere. Paulie is a hardass baseball player who wants to win. He has slumps like everyone else but what if he does not have one? He had a horrible May and he is on track for 40 hrs. and 110 Rbis. He might end up with more than that if he avoids a bad month. No folks any trades will be minor at this point to secure that right-handed bullpen help. I can live with this roster as it sits without Jackson maybe.

There's a reason people call him GIDPaul. That's why I'd like to see him traded for more needed commodities.

Tragg
07-01-2004, 01:10 AM
When you have Maggs, THomas, Lee, Valentin and Konerko in the middle of your lineup, you dont want to break that up. Kendall's upgrade from Alomar/Burke isnt worth the downgrade between Konerko and Gload, nor the extra 4-5 mil per and extra year That is what I've been trying to say. Excellent.