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View Full Version : Sox looking seriously at Kendall!!!


ChiSoxTony
06-28-2004, 09:39 PM
It was reported on ESPN late last night that the we may be trading prospects for Kendall whereby the Pirates would eat a portion of his contract. Its my understanding that its a pure salary dump by the Pirates.

hose
06-28-2004, 09:41 PM
It was reported on ESPN late last night that the we may be trading prospects for Kendall whereby the Pirates would eat a portion of his contract. Its my understanding that its a pure salary dump by the Pirates.
WOW!!!!!!

Cubbiesuck13
06-28-2004, 09:42 PM
It was reported on ESPN late last night that the we may be trading prospects for Kendall whereby the Pirates would eat a portion of his contract. Its my understanding that its a pure salary dump by the Pirates.
nothing would suprise me with KW. i think that he is a great fan's GM. i like him but even if you think he sucks, you have to admit the man hates loosing. it is like having one of us be the gm doing anything we can to help the team now even if it hurts us in the long run.

whtsx1959
06-28-2004, 09:42 PM
we dont need another bat, our offense doesnt keep it close for shingo to be put in

we needed bats when krotch would be put in

ndgt10
06-28-2004, 09:43 PM
If it's just for prospects and they are going to eat some of the contract, I would be ecstatic. In fact, it gives me a hard-on just thinking about it.:D:

Cubbiesuck13
06-28-2004, 09:44 PM
If it's just for prospects and they are going to eat some of the contract, I would be ecstatic. In fact, it gives me a hard-on just thinking about it.:D:

:o:

Flight #24
06-28-2004, 09:44 PM
It was reported on ESPN late last night that the we may be trading prospects for Kendall whereby the Pirates would eat a portion of his contract. Its my understanding that its a pure salary dump by the Pirates.
Interesting. Depending on the cash involved, this could mean bye bye to Maggs in the offseason and a retooling with a focus on resigning Elo & Freddy.

Basically, we'd end up swapping Maggs+Olivo for Kendall+Borchard in the lineup. Now Borchard>Olivo IMO, and Maggs, while > Kendall is a very different type of hitter. The lineup may actually become more balanced.

Kendall seems to be a "Reed-type" of hitter (high OBP, avg, low-to-avg slg). So it's kind of like swapping in Reed for Maggs & Borchard for Olivo.

All in all, while not ideal, it's not bad. And with our pitching, I think we're still a formidable team. And for this year - makes us IMO the AL favorite.

mdep524
06-28-2004, 09:46 PM
It was reported on ESPN late last night that the we may be trading prospects for Kendall whereby the Pirates would eat a portion of his contract. Its my understanding that its a pure salary dump by the Pirates.
:bandance: :D: :bandance: :D: :bandance:

I hope this is true!!

Jjav829
06-28-2004, 09:47 PM
If it's just for prospects and they are going to eat some of the contract, I would be ecstatic. In fact, it gives me a hard-on just thinking about it.:D:If wouldn't be just any prospects. If KW was serious about this and was asking Pittsburgh to eat a significant portion of Kendall's contract, it would be a high prospect(s). Personally, I really like Kendall, but I would be hesitant to make this trade.

Flight #24
06-28-2004, 09:50 PM
If wouldn't be just any prospects. If KW was serious about this and was asking Pittsburgh to eat a significant portion of Kendall's contract, it would be a high prospect. Personally, I really like Kendall, but I would be hesitant to make this trade.

Depends. Given the difficulties they've had trying to get rid of Kendall, it could be as much as half. IIRC, they were willing to deal Brian Giles to the padres if they'd take Kendall, AND they'd pay half his contract. They ended up doing Giles for Perez+prospects, but the fact that they were willing to give up a Brian Giles AND eat Kendall's contract says they're desparate.

IIRC, he's got like $10/yr over 4 years? Tell them they can have Nanita and Baj, they give us Kendall+$16mil (making his salary $6m/yr).

dpbyron
06-28-2004, 09:51 PM
I love Kendall. He is not worth his current contract, but if we can Pittsburgh to take on his contract then I would do it in a heartbeat. This guy just hits and gets on base! :bandance: :D: :bandance:

WinningUgly!
06-28-2004, 09:56 PM
:KW

"He's the ultimate grinder, fellas."

Philo-Sox-er
06-28-2004, 09:56 PM
Besides hitting, Kendall is a solid defensive catcher too--a true grit.

JoseCanseco6969
06-28-2004, 09:57 PM
I love Kendall. He is not worth his current contract, but if we can Pittsburgh to take on his contract then I would do it in a heartbeat. This guy just hits and gets on base! :bandance: :D: :bandance:
I love this aggression! This would be perfect as long as no Sox current players or any AAA OF's are part of the deal, and they eat nearly half the salary. GO KW!!!!!!:supernana:

ChiWhiteSox1337
06-28-2004, 09:58 PM
well, the other team in town had a total highway robbery of the pirates last year and they were in the SAME DIVISION!!!! It's our turn, let's get the pirates to eat half of that contract for a few prospects. :supernana:

dpbyron
06-28-2004, 10:04 PM
well, the other team in town had a total highway robbery of the pirates last year and they were in the SAME DIVISION!!!! It's our turn, let's get the pirates to eat half of that contract for a few prospects. :supernana:
Exactly, if they eat half his contract and take a couple of mid level prospects, Kenny will be all over him IMHO.

Isn't nice to have a GM who is so proactive? Sure he misses sometimes, but at least he is trying! GO KENNY! :Rocker: :Rocker:

A. Cavatica
06-28-2004, 10:11 PM
I love this aggression! This would be perfect as long as no Sox current players or any AAA OF's are part of the deal, and they eat nearly half the salary. GO KW!!!!!!:supernana:
Heck, from our current players, they could have Ben Davis. Or Jamie Burke. Or Mike Jackson. Or Vic Darensbourg. Or Jon Adkins.

With Reed gone, they could also have their pick of our AAA outfielders. How about Andres Torres, Mario Valenzuela, Davis, and Jackson for Kendall?

Seriously, could the Pirates be persuaded to take Carlos Lee? He's allegedly a good hitter in his prime. A straight swap might do it.

gosox3072
06-28-2004, 10:15 PM
I'd like to see a trade happen here. Yet, i wouldnt give too much up unless pitt is willing to pay a HECK of a lot of kendalls contract. If this happens, is it the end of the line for Maggs tho? I would much rather see magglio in a sox uniform next year than Jason Kendall.

HomeFish
06-28-2004, 10:15 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

Flight #24
06-28-2004, 10:18 PM
I'd like to see a trade happen here. Yet, i wouldnt give too much up unless pitt is willing to pay a HECK of a lot of kendalls contract. If this happens, is it the end of the line for Maggs tho? I would much rather see magglio in a sox uniform next year than Jason Kendall.
I think the philosophy would be:

1)you get BOTH in a Sox uni this year
2)they think they're unlikely to be able to resign Maggs
3)It's more like Kendall+Elo or Maggs (although I'd like to think revenues would increase enough to let us retain BOTH Maggs & ELo)

Brian26
06-28-2004, 10:35 PM
well, the other team in town had a total highway robbery of the pirates last year and they were in the SAME DIVISION!!!! It's our turn, let's get the pirates to eat half of that contract for a few prospects. :supernana:
Yeah, I was going to say this is a welcome surprise since the Pirates usually give away their team to rival teams within their own division.

Brian26
06-28-2004, 10:36 PM
3)It's more like Kendall+Elo or Maggs (although I'd like to think revenues would increase enough to let us retain BOTH Maggs & ELo)
Wouldn't it be nice to have all 3 of them? And Garcia!:D:

Tragg
06-28-2004, 11:03 PM
nothing would suprise me with KW. i think that he is a great fan's GM. i like him but even if you think he sucks, you have to admit the man hates loosing. it is like having one of us be the gm doing anything we can to help the team now even if it hurts us in the long run.Unless they are willing to eat 1/2 of his contract for the next 3 years, I say no deal. After all, we'll be stuck with that 10MM deal for 2 or 3 more years, and unless you're the Yankees, it kills your flexibility.
Meanwhile, still a bullpen shortage and LH hitter problem.

cornball
06-28-2004, 11:05 PM
I'd like to see a trade happen here. Yet, i wouldnt give too much up unless pitt is willing to pay a HECK of a lot of kendalls contract. If this happens, is it the end of the line for Maggs tho? I would much rather see magglio in a sox uniform next year than Jason Kendall.
Thats the huge question, Maggs, Garcia, Loaiza will require serious cash next year......but as the saying goes worry about that next year.

KW will make a huge push if he thinks the Sox can will it all. I think he is starting to feel it.

RedPinStripes
06-28-2004, 11:05 PM
See ya later Burke! Go catch the prospects.

doublem23
06-28-2004, 11:09 PM
we dont need another bat, our offense doesnt keep it close for shingo to be put in

we needed bats when krotch would be put in
Unless you missed the news from yesterday, we could use another catcher.

Navaro's Talent
06-28-2004, 11:23 PM
I would like to see Kendall in a Sox uniform, but the Pirates better eat that contract up. His contract is very pricey.

Nellie Comiskey
06-28-2004, 11:35 PM
Ben Davis might be a White Sox as long as Mike Piazza was a Florida Marlin....maybe 36 - 48 hours. The Sox could package Davis along with a minor leaguer to get Kendall(and the Pirates pick up some of the contract). Now these chain-reactioned trades do make sense. :smile:

SEALgep
06-29-2004, 12:07 AM
Jason Kendall would be sweet if the Pirates eat a portion of the contract throughout it's life. He could be an ideal number two hitter for us too. Even if he didn't bat there, he's a real good contact hitter to have to get on base for our big bats. Along with his catching ability and game calling experience, we'd be in good shape IMO.

RedPinStripes
06-29-2004, 12:17 AM
The pitching staff is improved, but since it's not a Marlins type rotation with Buehrle and Loaiza not pitching like they can latlely, another bat wont hurt . Especially if Maggs is going to be moved. And if he's not moved, a good hitting catcher is never going to hurt.

If Maggs is here in a few weeks it will be like making a move and not giving anyone up. I cant stress enough how much they miss his bat especially in these NL parks where Thomas or Konerko have to sit also.

Harris=God
06-29-2004, 12:18 AM
if this trade does go through then we brobably cant resign maggs so we then sould get what we can for him like sending him to the braves.

Kadafi311
06-29-2004, 12:32 AM
I'll believe it when I see it.
I typically disagree with all of yours posts... but I'm with you on this one :D:

WSox8404
06-29-2004, 12:34 AM
if this trade does go through then we brobably cant resign maggs so we then sould get what we can for him like sending him to the braves.
Yep. Get somebody for Mags, (good relief?), and then get Kendall. He would be a superb leadoff hitter, something that the Sox really don't have. Sorry Willie, you have been struggling lately. He would make the lineup much more balanced.

jabrch
06-29-2004, 12:55 AM
I'd be so all over getting Kendall if Pitt payed half his salary. I would do that in a heartbeat. He is a prototypical #2 hitter. Imagine this...

Harris or Uribe
Kendall
Magglio
Frank
Carlos
Manos
PK
Uribe or Rowand
Joe

with a rotation of
Loaiza
Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Rauch/Diaz/Schoenweis

That says WINNER to me!

CWSGuy406
06-29-2004, 01:04 AM
I'd be so all over getting Kendall if Pitt payed half his salary. I would do that in a heartbeat. He is a prototypical #2 hitter. Imagine this...

Harris or Uribe
Kendall
Magglio
Frank
Carlos
Manos
PK
Uribe or Rowand
Joe

with a rotation of
Loaiza
Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Rauch/Diaz/Schoenweis

That says WINNER to me!
Agreed. Kendall is the high average/high OBP player we need. Not to mention he's a solid defensive catcher.

I do this deal if and only if Pitt pays for more than half of the remaining contract, and we don't give up any of Borchard/Sweeney/Anderson (I almost put Reed in there :whiner: .)

jabrch
06-29-2004, 01:08 AM
Agreed. Kendall is the high average/high OBP player we need. Not to mention he's a solid defensive catcher.

I do this deal if and only if Pitt pays for more than half of the remaining contract, and we don't give up any of Borchard/Sweeney/Anderson (I almost put Reed in there :whiner: .)

I'd give up Sweeney or Anderson even. Those guys are a long long long way away from MLB. If this gets us there NOW - you can have the crapshoots that those guys are.

milrtyme28
06-29-2004, 01:20 AM
this would be a solid pickup in my opinion - there is no question that we can use a quality catcher in the wake of the garcia deal. that said, we already have the best offense in baseball, so this move cant cost too much.

i am going to miss olivo, so i wouldnt mind a solid catcher in the lineup. alomar is great for the leadership, but his bat isnt exactly glowing and burke is still a crap shoot as far as i am concerned. if we can pick up a solid leadoff hitter / catcher and not spend it all ( as far as propects are concerned ) in the process I am all for it. a little salary participation on the pirates side of the equation wouldnt hurt either.

samram
06-29-2004, 07:11 AM
I'd give up Sweeney or Anderson even. Those guys are a long long long way away from MLB. If this gets us there NOW - you can have the crapshoots that those guys are.
I would definitely give up Sweeney. For all any of us know, he may have been a spring training flash in the pan (although, admittedly, I don't know how well he's playing this year). However, if they're willing to pick up enough of the contract, I would deal Anderson too (although not both). There will be a pretty steep price if the Sox want their franchise player with them paying a good portion of his salary. However, it shores up an important position with a very good player for 3 or 4 years, and makes the team better now, so do it.

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2004, 08:17 AM
Garcia made the Sox heavy favorites for the division. Adding Kendall would make them serious contenders for the World Series. Kendall replaces Olivo and replaces what the Sox had projected to get from Reed, for this year and for the next few years.

As for the money, going deep in the playoffs guarantees more revenues this year and in 2005 because of the certain increase in season ticket sales. Signing E-Lo, Maggs and Garcia would be tough, but with Koch already gone and Valentin gone (or back at a lower #), plus money having come here from Seattle, plus increased revenues, perhaps all three deals could get done.

In addition, this offseason Kenny could trade Carlos Lee for pitching or prospects to free up more payroll for Garcia, Maggs and E-Lo. Maggs would move to left and LTP, with his superior arm, could step in to right. Or Lee could stay with LTP starting in center, depending on the extent to which Pittsburgh picks up a portion of Kendall's contract.

Iguana775
06-29-2004, 08:19 AM
Garcia made the Sox heavy favorites for the division. Adding Kendall would make them serious contenders for the World Series. Kendall replaces Olivo and replaces what the Sox had projected to get from Reed, for this year and for the next few years.

As for the money, going deep in the playoffs guarantees more revenues this year and in 2005 because of the certain increase in season ticket sales. Signing E-Lo, Maggs and Garcia would be tough, but with Koch already gone and Valentin gone (or back at a lower #), plus money having come here from Seattle, plus increased revenues, perhaps all three deals could get done.

In addition, this offseason Kenny could trade Carlos Lee for pitching or prospects to free up more payroll for Garcia, Maggs and E-Lo. Maggs would move to left and LTP, with his superior arm, could step in to right. Or Lee could stay with LTP starting in center, depending on the extent to which Pittsburgh picks up a portion of Kendall's contract.
If the sox can do the trade w/o giving up any huge prospects, then I am all for it. Hell, I might consider borchard if they took on a lot of Kendell's salary.

wdelaney72
06-29-2004, 08:50 AM
Win now. Screw prospects, they've proved NOTHING at the MLB level.

All of this love to re-sign ELo, and he's pitching like complete crap. I'll save my cheers to lock up ELo until the end of the season and IF ONLY he gets his head of his behind.

Tekijawa
06-29-2004, 09:00 AM
I think that the Pirates should eat half of his contract and just give him two us as the previously "undiscussed" and "Unknown" half of the Kip Wells, Josh Fogg and Sean Lowe trade is completed... I know we didn't just get Todd Ritchie's services for all of that... They still have to owe us something right?

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 09:46 AM
As for the money, going deep in the playoffs guarantees more revenues this year and in 2005 because of the certain increase in season ticket sales. Signing E-Lo, Maggs and Garcia would be tough, but with Koch already gone and Valentin gone (or back at a lower #), plus money having come here from Seattle, plus increased revenues, perhaps all three deals could get done.


Payroll was at $65mil at the start of the year, IIRC. From other discussions, here's the rough #'s I've gleaned.

General increases for players under contract for 2005: roughly 8-10mil
Loss of Koch: 6mil
Loss of Valentin: 5mil
Add Kendall at lower salary (assume 5mil)

So if you assume ELo gets something on the order of 6mil, and Garcia something like 9, that's 15mil, plus the 8-10 in other increases totaling 23-25mil, then kendall, ratcheting it up tp almost 30mil. We save 11 on Koch+Val, so a net payroll increase of 17-19mil.

Now factor in a couple mil for resigning Val (which I think is a good idea -say $3mil), and 2mil on a veteran catcher and you have a net increase in the range of 22-24mil.

That's a pretty sizeable revenue increase. I think I saw someone run some numbers that an average increase of 5k fans/game would generate approx 10mil in additional revenue. So you're either talking a huge increase in attendance, or a deep playoff run. Now if you lose Maggs, it's highly doable. But I think kendall would spell the end of Maggs. Which means you do it in a heartbeat if KW's pretty sure we'll lose him anyway.

And in any case, a net swap on offense of Maggs+Olivo for Kendall+Borchard isn't as huge a reduction as you'd think. And the O actually gets more balanced.

Dadawg_77
06-29-2004, 09:47 AM
If it's just for prospects and they are going to eat some of the contract, I would be ecstatic. In fact, it gives me a hard-on just thinking about it.:D:
The better the prospects the more money Pitt will eat. That is the way baseball trade market is working these days.

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 09:50 AM
The better the prospects the more money Pitt will eat. That is the way baseball trade market is working these days.
Anyone remember what Pitt was willing to do in the Giles->San Diego deal? IIRC, they were almost willing to give them Giles AND pay half of Kendall's salary to get it off their books (but the Padres wouldn't).

That would seem to indicate that they'd take a relatively low-level prospect in return for getting half of the 42mil/4 years off of the books.

Any truth to my recollection?

jabrch
06-29-2004, 09:52 AM
Anyone remember what Pitt was willing to do in the Giles->San Diego deal? IIRC, they were almost willing to give them Giles AND pay half of Kendall's salary to get it off their books (but the Padres wouldn't).

That would seem to indicate that they'd take a relatively low-level prospect in return for getting half of the 42mil/4 years off of the books.

Any truth to my recollection?
After the Giles trade was over, Pitt was still talking to SD. They were still willing to eat half the contract for an upper-middle tier prospect. I wonder if Rauch or Diaz might be enough to get it done?

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 09:54 AM
After the Giles trade was over, Pitt was still talking to SD. They were still willing to eat half the contract for an upper-middle tier prospect. I wonder if Rauch or Diaz might be enough to get it done?
I'd tell them they get Nanita+their choice of Baj/Meaux/That guy we got from KC for Kendall+16mil (dropping his salary to $6mil/yr).

white sox bill
06-29-2004, 09:59 AM
Here another pipe dream:

We get Kendall,win it all,attendance surges such BIG time, JR sees the light of more star player,WS ring,more revenue,Chi. becoming Sox town etc. So he boosts payroll to 100 Mill.

Now wake up!

SEALgep
06-29-2004, 09:59 AM
I'd tell them they get Nanita+their choice of Baj/Meaux/That guy we got from KC for Kendall+16mil (dropping his salary to $6mil/yr).I would take Meaux out of there personally. I think he's our lefty specialist next year.

SEALgep
06-29-2004, 10:01 AM
Here another pipe dream:

We get Kendall,win it all,attendance surges such BIG time, JR sees the light of more star player,WS ring,more revenue,Chi. becoming Sox town etc. So he boosts payroll to 100 Mill.

Now wake up!We've been seeing steady increases in payroll, it's not absurd to believe we could receive another one this offseason. A $70 million payroll is not far-fetched by any means.

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 10:03 AM
We've been seeing steady increases in payroll, it's not absurd to believe we could receive another one this offseason. A $70 million payroll is not far-fetched by any means.
And I guarantee you that if one of the Chicago teams wins a WS, fans will flock to them and they'll be able to behave like a BoSox/Angels style team payroll-wise.

In other, unrelated news, Rotoworld reports:
Billy Koch gave up another run tonight. He's been scored on in five of his six outings since joining the Marlins.:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

JasonC23
06-29-2004, 10:45 AM
But...but...the Fish fans said getting Koch was a great pickup!! :D:

I'm in agreement with a lot of others here. Kendall is an on-base machine who would fit perfectly as the number 2 hitter in the Sox lineup. But I don't want whatever portion of his contract the Sox would have to pay if it means no shot at retaining Maggs.

Come on, Kenny...get Kendall while keeping Maggs and Garcia long-term, and I'll take back some of the bad things I've said about you. :bandance:

Tmar281
06-29-2004, 11:00 AM
i think if we win a couple of world series Reinsdorf might up the payroll to 80 million :D:

SOXSINCE'70
06-29-2004, 11:03 AM
I'll believe it when I see it.Remember who owns this team. Let's see if Garcia and Loaiza can be resigned first.

GoSox2K3
06-29-2004, 11:35 AM
Yeah, I was going to say this is a welcome surprise since the Pirates usually give away their team to rival teams within their own division.
Yeah, not only did did the Pirates rob us in the Todd Ritchie trade, but then last year the Pirates gift-wrapped the division to the Cubs.:angry:

Randar68
06-29-2004, 11:37 AM
Yeah, not only did did the Pirates rob us in the Todd Ritchie trade, but then last year the Pirates gift-wrapped the division to the Cubs.:angry:
Yeah, and they really ripped us off in that Marte-for-Guerrier trade...

mcfish
06-29-2004, 11:43 AM
i think if we win a couple of world series Reinsdorf might up the payroll to 80 million :D:
What does green mean? I can't decide if this statement deserves teal or pink.

GoSox2K3
06-29-2004, 11:45 AM
Yeah, and they really ripped us off in that Marte-for-Guerrier trade...
I was just joking.:cool: (but I'm still not happy at how they helped the Cubs)

owensmouth
06-29-2004, 11:46 AM
Getting Kendal would cost us at least Carlos, and probably Sweeney too. Because Carlos has two more years on his contract, the money changing would be negligible.

Randar68
06-29-2004, 11:46 AM
Getting Kendal would cost us at least Carlos, and probably Sweeney too. Because Carlos has two more years on his contract, the money changing would be negligible.
Ummmm. NO.

Tmar281
06-29-2004, 11:49 AM
What does green mean? I can't decide if this statement deserves teal or pink.
yea it didnt know which color means which so i went with green:whiner:

jabrch
06-29-2004, 11:49 AM
What does green mean? I can't decide if this statement deserves teal or pink.

C) both teal and pink

owensmouth
06-29-2004, 11:49 AM
Ummmm. NO.
Ummmm, NO what Randar?

SEALgep
06-29-2004, 11:52 AM
Ummmm, NO what Randar?No, it wouldn't cost us that, and even if that was what they would require, we wouldn't do it.

jabrch
06-29-2004, 11:55 AM
No, it wouldn't cost us that, and even if that was what they would require, we wouldn't do it.
KW would hang up the phone if Pitt wanted that much for him. Carlos? Are you kidding me? Carlos Lee from the Warthogs - maybe. Carlos Maldonado from Birmingham maybe. But Carlos Lee? Nope - not gonna happen.

owensmouth
06-29-2004, 12:06 PM
KW would hang up the phone if Pitt wanted that much for him. Carlos? Are you kidding me? Carlos Lee from the Warthogs - maybe. Carlos Maldonado from Birmingham maybe. But Carlos Lee? Nope - not gonna happen.
I agree with you. We won't do it. Kendal is on the same par as a player as Garcia. Maybe not the best in the game, but pretty darn good. He would cost us in the same vicinity that Garcia did. Kendal is still owed 34 million after this year. He is too darn expensive.

This is what I found in ESPN. com about the proposed trade between SD and the Pirates:

Associated Press
PITTSBURGH -- The long-discussed deal to send Jason Kendall (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5562) from the Pirates to San Diego fell apart Tuesday when the Padres ownership balked at picking up the remaining $42 million of the catcher's contract.



http://adsatt.espn.go.com/ad/sponsors/blank/blank-espn.gif (http://log.go.com/log?srvc=sz&a=1&drop=0&addata=1331:53574:141468:65&guid=7EB9961B-A0DC-4F5D-8AC7-B3789487AFFB&goto=)
The two sides have talked since late last week about a trade in which the Pirates would get third baseman Jeff Cirillo (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5231) and catcher Ramon Hernandez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6258) for Kendall, a San Diego native and three-time All-Star.



Padres general manager Kevin Towers said that decision not to pursue Kendall came during a meeting of the team's top executives, including owner John Moores. The Padres decided Kendall's big contract would limit their flexibility for adding a player at the trading deadline or a pitcher in free agency after next season.



"If there was a big-name pitcher available, we'd kick ourselves in the pants if we've got $20 million committed to a catcher," Towers said.



Despite the months of negotiations, Towers thinks the Kendall talks are dead for good.



The Padres did make one move Tuesday, signing center fielder Jay Payton (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5773) to a $5.5 million, two-year contract.



This is at least the fourth time since last summer the Padres and Pirates have negotiated a possible Kendall trade and, as of Monday, the two sides had a deal in principle. The Pirates were so convinced a deal was near, they had a press release announcing the trade already prepared.



The Padres initially wanted Kendall included in the Aug. 26 deal in which they acquired outfielder Brian Giles (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5543), but those talks snagged on how much of Kendall's contract the Pirates would pay.



Kendall's back-end loaded $60 million deal, signed in 2000, is worth $42 million over the next four seasons -- $8 million in 2004, $10 million in 2005, $11 million in 2006 and $13 million in 2007. Previously, the Padres wanted Pittsburgh to pay as much as $25 million.



The Pirates would have assumed the nearly $22 million owed Cirillo ($15 million) and Hernandez ($6.95 million), but the Padres ownership apparently was uncomfortable with the large amount still owed Kendall.



Until the talks suddenly fell apart late Tuesday afternoon, both teams seemed optimistic the long-in-the-making deal was finally done.

SEALgep
06-29-2004, 12:06 PM
KW would hang up the phone if Pitt wanted that much for him. Carlos? Are you kidding me? Carlos Lee from the Warthogs - maybe. Carlos Maldonado from Birmingham maybe. But Carlos Lee? Nope - not gonna happen.Not to mention that he was including Sweeney in the package, Lee's most suitable replacement in a year or two. No thought was put into that scenerio, it is completely far-fetched for someone the Pirates are trying to move and eat salary doing it.

bobj4400
06-29-2004, 12:06 PM
No, it wouldn't cost us that, and even if that was what they would require, we wouldn't do it.
They wouldnt even require that. They want to clear money. Not take on an 8 million dollar player while also picking up some of Kendall's salary. (which is the only way we would get Kendall) Anyway imo, getting Kendall would be nice, not necessary, so it would have to be a steal for KW to make the deal...

owensmouth
06-29-2004, 12:24 PM
They wouldnt even require that. They want to clear money. Not take on an 8 million dollar player while also picking up some of Kendall's salary. (which is the only way we would get Kendall) Anyway imo, getting Kendall would be nice, not necessary, so it would have to be a steal for KW to make the deal...
They were willing to take on Cirillo and Hernandes salaries (21 million) to trade off Kendal this past winter. The problem was the Padres didn't want the 42 million stillowed Kendal.

basilesox
06-29-2004, 12:39 PM
we dont need another bat, our offense doesnt keep it close for shingo to be put in

we needed bats when krotch would be put in
You have to be kidding me if you think that we couldn't use Kendall's bat to replace either Ben Davis or Jamie Burke in our lineup.

basilesox
06-29-2004, 12:41 PM
If we commit this kind of money long term to Kendall........say good bye to Mags at year end.

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2004, 01:06 PM
If we commit this kind of money long term to Kendall........say good bye to Mags at year end.

I think Maggs is an excellent player and I want him to stay with the Sox for his entire career. However, as Daver has said, Maggs is not worth what he and his agent seem to want. That money can be spent more effectively elsewhere.

Kendall replaces Olivo defensively and replaces what was expected in terms of OBP and average from Reed. Adding Kendall but subtracting Maggs in 2005 balances the lineup. Maggs' offensive output can be offset by Kendall (.300+ average) combined with expected improvement from Crede. In the field, Borchard is more than an adequate replacement for Maggs and eventually could replicate Maggs' power -- but from both sides of the plate. For 2005, though, LTP could begin by hitting eighth, with Uribe dropping to ninth to turn the order over. (Harris, Kendall, Frank, Lee, Valentin, Konerko, Crede, Borchard, Uribe)

The money saved by not signing Maggs would be spread among Kendall and re-signing Garcia and Loaiza.

habibharu
06-29-2004, 01:12 PM
I think Maggs is an excellent player and I want him to stay with the Sox for his entire career. However, as Daver has said, Maggs is not worth what he and his agent seem to want. That money can be spent more effectively elsewhere.

Kendall replaces Olivo defensively and replaces what was expected in terms of OBP and average from Reed. Adding Kendall but subtracting Maggs in 2005 balances the lineup. Maggs' offensive output can be offset by Kendall (.300+ average) combined with expected improvement from Crede. In the field, Borchard is more than an adequate replacement for Maggs and eventually could replicate Maggs' power -- but from both sides of the plate. For 2005, though, LTP could begin by hitting eighth, with Uribe dropping to ninth to turn the order over. (Harris, Kendall, Frank, Lee, Valentin, Konerko, Crede, Borchard, Uribe)

The money saved by not signing Maggs would be spread among Kendall and re-signing Garcia and Loaiza. agreed, maggs in DEFINITELY not worth 14 mil. if he wants that kind of money, he has to put up vlad numbers, or move to SS like tejada

Frater Perdurabo
06-29-2004, 01:13 PM
Payroll was at $65mil at the start of the year, IIRC. From other discussions, here's the rough #'s I've gleaned.

General increases for players under contract for 2005: roughly 8-10mil
Loss of Koch: 6mil
Loss of Valentin: 5mil
Add Kendall at lower salary (assume 5mil)

So if you assume ELo gets something on the order of 6mil, and Garcia something like 9, that's 15mil, plus the 8-10 in other increases totaling 23-25mil, then kendall, ratcheting it up tp almost 30mil. We save 11 on Koch+Val, so a net payroll increase of 17-19mil.

Now factor in a couple mil for resigning Val (which I think is a good idea -say $3mil), and 2mil on a veteran catcher and you have a net increase in the range of 22-24mil.

That's a pretty sizeable revenue increase. I think I saw someone run some numbers that an average increase of 5k fans/game would generate approx 10mil in additional revenue. So you're either talking a huge increase in attendance, or a deep playoff run. Now if you lose Maggs, it's highly doable. But I think kendall would spell the end of Maggs. Which means you do it in a heartbeat if KW's pretty sure we'll lose him anyway.

And in any case, a net swap on offense of Maggs+Olivo for Kendall+Borchard isn't as huge a reduction as you'd think. And the O actually gets more balanced.

In any case, if in June 2005 the Sox offense is struggling with Kendall but without Maggs, they can always go out and trade for another hitter. It's mush easier to get a hitter than it is to get a starting pitcher, and the Sox rotation would be set (barring injury) if they re-sign E-Lo and Garcia. E-Lo, Garcia, Buehrle, Garland is a formidable 4-man rotation, with Rauch, Diaz, Cotts or Shoe available to fill the 5th spot.

Deadguy
06-29-2004, 02:11 PM
Go for it KW. I don't know why Kendall didn't end up joing Giles in San Diego, but he'd be solid behind the plate, and a great lead off hitter who gets on base at a decent clip and makes contact consistently. As solid as our offense is, guys like Uribe and Harris are liable to fall off tremendously, and we need guys to get on for FT, Mags (when he comes back), and PK.

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 02:12 PM
They were willing to take on Cirillo and Hernandes salaries (21 million) to trade off Kendal this past winter. The problem was the Padres didn't want the 42 million stillowed Kendal.What that tells me is that the Pirates would probably be willing to take mid-low tier prospects for Kendall+$20mil cash. Cirillo and hernandez are in a wword - bad players. They take them in return because San Diego needed a way to reduce Kendall's salary (and because they dont' want them anymore).

Give them their choice of 2 of our mid tier guys, guys like Nanita & Baj. They give us Kendall, and drop his salary to $6mil/yr. Since that basically eliminates Maggs from the picture, we now have Koch(11)+Valentin(5)+Maggs-Kendall(14-6=8). Total available payroll of 24m. Give 10 to Garcia, give 6 to Elo, give 3 to Valentin. That leaves you something on the order of 5mil left if you assume a constant 65m payroll. Factor in 8-10mil in general salary increases and we have a VERY strong team with little payroll increase.

NOW factor in that with increased attendance and a playoff spot, revenues go up and Sox management puts those onto the field (historically).....go get a stud closer, another starter, whatever you want.

EDIT: I miscalculatad Koch's savings - it's 6mil, not 11. That reduces the total by 5, but its' still doable. A $10mil increase in payroll should not be that high given the expected attendance & revenue increases.

bartmanisgod
06-29-2004, 02:15 PM
.....go get a stud closer, another starter, whatever you want.

We already got a stud closer...It's SHINGO TIME! :bandance: GONG!

Paulwny
06-29-2004, 02:16 PM
Kendall actually controls his own destiny. Does he want to play for the sox? He has a "no trade clause" in his contract.

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 02:17 PM
Kendall actually controls his own destiny. Does he want to play for the sox? He has a "no trade clause" in his contract.
I would hope that moving from the armpit of MLB competitiveness-wise to a major market, WS contending team, would be incentive enough.

Deadguy
06-29-2004, 02:18 PM
What that tells me is that the Pirates would probably be willing to take mid-low tier prospects for Kendall+$20mil cash. Cirillo and hernandez are in a wword - bad players. They take them in return because San Diego needed a way to reduce Kendall's salary (and because they dont' want them anymore).

Give them their choice of 2 of our mid tier guys, guys like Nanita & Baj. They give us Kendall, and drop his salary to $6mil/yr. Since that basically eliminates Maggs from the picture, we now have Koch(11)+Valentin(5)+Maggs-Kendall(14-6=8). Total available payroll of 24m. Give 10 to Garcia, give 6 to Elo, give 3 to Valentin. That leaves you something on the order of 5mil left if you assume a constant 65m payroll. Factor in 8-10mil in general salary increases and we have a VERY strong team with little payroll increase.

NOW factor in that with increased attendance and a playoff spot, revenues go up and Sox management puts those onto the field (historically).....go get a stud closer, another starter, whatever you want.
I agree. We wouldn't have to give up much of anything to acquire Kendall. It'd parallel as basically a FA pick up. An expensive one, but one that would definitely help the club. Open up the wallet JR, and let it happen.

Rocky Soprano
06-29-2004, 02:19 PM
6MM for ELo? He is probably going to win at least 16 games this year.

He is going to want a nice raise from the 4.5MM he is making this year.

6 is too low.

Paulwny
06-29-2004, 02:21 PM
I would hope that moving from the armpit of MLB competitiveness-wise to a major market, WS contending team, would be incentive enough.
At the beginning of the season he said he was happy in Pitt, but would waive his "no trade clause" for the Padres. He's a west coast guy.

Clarkdog
06-29-2004, 02:35 PM
First, I have not seen any proof of this. Kendall's trade rumor status is not posted on ESPN MLB Insider - Rumor Central, nor has any mention of it been seen on ProSportsDaily's rumor mill. So it could be wishful thinking, but that aside....

While I would love to have Kendall - his contract is an albatross. The Sox should not have to pay for the Pirates poor deal making. We have our own misktakes to pay for.

The Pirates want to free up payroll. If the Sox do this deal they should offer no more than Ben Davis and two mid level prospects (one pitcher, one position player) and require the Pirates pickup half of Kendall's remaining deal.

Honestly, I'd rather try and get Brian Schneider from the Expos - if we are in the market for a catcher.

StepsInSC
06-29-2004, 02:36 PM
At the beginning of the season he said he was happy in Pitt, but would waive his "no trade clause" for the Padres. He's a west coast guy.
Chicago's more 'west coast' than Pittsburgh....:)

Paulwny
06-29-2004, 02:43 PM
[QUOTE=Clarkdog]First, I have not seen any proof of this. Kendall's trade rumor status is not posted on ESPN MLB Insider - Rumor Central, nor has any mention of it been seen on ProSportsDaily's rumor mill. So it could be wishful thinking, but that aside....
QUOTE]

Also, nothing about this deal in 2 pitt papers I looked at this morning.

hawkeyesrule
06-29-2004, 04:32 PM
Seriously, the trade rumors on this website are getting out of hand. Rival GM's do not get completely fleeced very often! Most of the proposed trades on here are something you would be able to pull off in a video game.

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 04:52 PM
Seriously, the trade rumors on this website are getting out of hand. Rival GM's do not get completely fleeced very often! Most of the proposed trades on here are something you would be able to pull off in a video game.
While true in general (there's a lot of wild stuff going on here!), given the reported deal that the pirates were willing to make where they sent Kendall to San Diego for Cirillo and Hernandez, I hardly think the Kendall deals we've been talking about give them less value...

Mohoney
06-29-2004, 04:52 PM
Seriously, the trade rumors on this website are getting out of hand. Rival GM's do not get completely fleeced very often! Most of the proposed trades on here are something you would be able to pull off in a video game.

I think that this would be fair:

Garland, Davis, and a lower-tier pitching prospect for Kendall and cash.

The buyers' market for catchers won't exactly be flooded. I think that this would be a nice haul for Pittsburgh. If they insist that the pitching prospect must be of higher caliber, then give them Adkins and take Davis out of the deal.

However, if Garland, Adkins, and Davis all packaged together can get Pittsburgh to pick up an UNGODLY amount of the money remaining on Kendall's deal, and it leaves us with enough financial flexibility to pull off a Steve Finley deal (who is widely rumored to be available for lesser prospects) with Arizona, then I say full speed ahead.

With Schoenweis on the DL, we slide both Rauch and Diaz into the rotation for the time being. One of them pitches their way into the rotation to permanently fill Garland's spot, the other goes to the bullpen to take Adkins' spot when Schoenweis comes back.

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 08:10 PM
Since neither the Pirates nor the Sox have a lot of spare cash, I'd like to offer them one of our good, overpaid, expendable sluggers for Kendall. The Pirates would probably be more interested in Lee, but Konerko for Kendall, even up?

fquaye149
06-29-2004, 08:17 PM
Why do you guys think we'd have to give up proven talent for kendall?

They were trying to ship him to san diego for ONE mid level prospect. If we sent him a couple decent minor leaguers, we could probably get them to take a quarter of his contract or something.

They are probably pretty interested in getting rid of that albatross. GARLAND? LEE? KONERKO? and you thoguht olivo/reed were overpaying

Mohoney
06-29-2004, 09:09 PM
Why do you guys think we'd have to give up proven talent for kendall?

They were trying to ship him to san diego for ONE mid level prospect. If we sent him a couple decent minor leaguers, we could probably get them to take a quarter of his contract or something.

They are probably pretty interested in getting rid of that albatross. GARLAND? LEE? KONERKO? and you thoguht olivo/reed were overpaying

The point is, if we offer Garland, Pittsburgh probably picks up way more than a quarter of the deal. It's about cash, and what we have to sell off to get enough cash for ownership to approve the deal.

fquaye149
06-29-2004, 09:16 PM
The point is, if we offer Garland, Pittsburgh probably picks up way more than a quarter of the deal. It's about cash, and what we have to sell off to get enough cash for ownership to approve the deal.
wow. you would honestly consider overpaying that much, huh?

Well, let's see how KW handles the situation.

owensmouth
06-29-2004, 09:24 PM
Why do you guys think we'd have to give up proven talent for kendall?

They were trying to ship him to san diego for ONE mid level prospect. If we sent him a couple decent minor leaguers, we could probably get them to take a quarter of his contract or something.

They are probably pretty interested in getting rid of that albatross. GARLAND? LEE? KONERKO? and you thoguht olivo/reed were overpaying
Wrong!!! Go back and look at my earlier post. The Padres were sending them Cirillo and Hernandez. The Pirates offered to pick up 21 million in salary, but San Diego had to pick up 42 million, Kendal's entire contract.

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 09:38 PM
wow. you would honestly consider overpaying that much, huh?
I'd like to trade Konerko or Lee because we don't have a lot of spare cash, and neither does Pittsburgh. Leaving the money aside, neither Konerko nor Lee is as good a player as Kendall, so we'd win on the talent exchange. Factor in position and we win by a lot.

Pittsburgh gets to trade their enormous salary mistake for a smaller salary mistake -- and they get back a major league hitter so it doesn't look like a total selloff.

Maybe we could throw in a prospect and pick up Mackowiak too, or maybe Pittsburgh would have to throw in a prospect to make the deal happen?

As for Garland, I wouldn't trade him, because Garland is worth what we're paying him.

psyclonis
06-29-2004, 09:41 PM
Konerko nor Lee is as good a player as KendallLMFAO

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 09:42 PM
Wrong!!! Go back and look at my earlier post. The Padres were sending them Cirillo and Hernandez. The Pirates offered to pick up 21 million in salary, but San Diego had to pick up 42 million, Kendal's entire contract.

So by my count, Pittsburgh was willing to take on 1 older, BAD player and 1 younger, bad player with potential......AND 21mil in cash to get rid of Kendall.

So if we offer them 2 young (and cheap) players with potential, I think they'd still be willing to pick up a big chunk of Kendall's deal.

You do NOT trade for Garcia just to turn around and trade Garland. Freddy's better than Jon, no doubt - but you get Garcia to give you a potentially dominant rotation and to win now. We're better off with our current O and both pitchers than adding Kendall and subtracting Garland.

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 09:44 PM
LMFAOI can back this up. Can you?

OBP is arguably the most important offensive measurement. Kendall's career OBP is .386 (excellent) compared to Konerko's .344 (slightly above average) and Lee's .337.

OPS is the other candidate for most important stat. Kendall's career OPS is .805, which is not far below Konerko's .821 and Lee's .813.

You may not get bonus points for being a good-hitting catcher, but it's a lot harder to find that kind of production in a catcher. Konerko in his career is just about even with Brian Daubach: .342 OBP, .820 OPS.

fquaye149
06-29-2004, 10:38 PM
sometimes when i read these boards, i'm very glad kenny is our gm.

Jjav829
06-29-2004, 10:53 PM
sometimes when i read these boards, i'm very glad kenny is our gm.
Kinda funny isn't it? But on the other hand, I don't know. It seems as though some people here would have been able to get Freddy Garcia for Kelly Dransfeldt straight up so that would have been interesting. :rolleyes:

A. Cavatica
06-29-2004, 10:57 PM
Dransfeldt is untouchable.

soxtalker
06-29-2004, 11:13 PM
Kinda funny isn't it? But on the other hand, I don't know. It seems as though some people here would have been able to get Freddy Garcia for Kelly Dransfeldt straight up so that would have been interesting. :rolleyes:
I can't remember anyone saying anything close to that. There was a small, but significant, percentage (about 20% last time I looked at the poll) of us that were against the trade. Most of the comments supporting that position indicated that they (and I'm in that group) thought we gave up too much and, in particular, didn't want to give up Olivo. That doesn't mean that we think that KW could have gotten Garcia for less.

Flight #24
06-29-2004, 11:16 PM
:tomatoaward

(always wanted to do one of those)

SOXintheBURGH
06-30-2004, 12:25 AM
There has not been a single word about this here in the Burgh. I really do not think this will happen. Dave Littlefield is a horrible GM, but I am not sure how much he would be willing to eat in salary. He wont be interested in Lee, as we got Jason Bay from SD in the Giles deal along with Oliver Perez. Konerko possibly.. but doubt it. We already use Craig Wilson and Daryl Ward at 1B, sometimes Randall Simon the Sausage Beater.

SEALgep
06-30-2004, 12:31 AM
There has not been a single word about this here in the Burgh. I really do not think this will happen. Dave Littlefield is a horrible GM, but I am not sure how much he would be willing to eat in salary. He wont be interested in Lee, as we got Jason Bay from SD in the Giles deal along with Oliver Perez. Konerko possibly.. but doubt it. We already use Craig Wilson and Daryl Ward at 1B, sometimes Randall Simon the Sausage Beater.It wouldn't be for a regular at all. If anything, it would be for prospects, and probably how good they were would determine how much of Kendall's contract was eaten. Make no mistake that the Pirates would be very interested in any offer that involved eliminating his contract. However, they know they have to pick up a portion of it, and that is where negotiations have caught snags before.

jabrch
06-30-2004, 07:44 AM
I don't want to make another trade that would just open a different hole. If we can get Kendall for prospects - that's great. If we are going to have to move Garland - FORGET IT. PK - FORGET IT. Carlos - FORGET IT.

Diaz - done
Rauch - done
Sweeney - done

mcfish
06-30-2004, 02:03 PM
There has not been a single word about this here in the Burgh. I really do not think this will happen. Dave Littlefield is a horrible GM, but I am not sure how much he would be willing to eat in salary. He wont be interested in Lee, as we got Jason Bay from SD in the Giles deal along with Oliver Perez. Konerko possibly.. but doubt it. We already use Craig Wilson and Daryl Ward at 1B, sometimes Randall Simon the Sausage Beater.
Randall Simon deserves to be in jail for what he did to that poor sausage last year. He is an evil, evil man who should be banned from baseball. Milwaukee's Sausage Race is one of the best traditions in sports today.

SEALgep
06-30-2004, 02:07 PM
Randall Simon deserves to be in jail for what he did to that poor sausage last year. He is an evil, evil man who should be banned from baseball. Milwaukee's Sausage Race is one of the best traditions in sports today.The teal button is under the color changing box. :rolleyes:

bartmanisgod
06-30-2004, 02:08 PM
Randall Simon deserves to be in jail for what he did to that poor sausage last year. He is an evil, evil man who should be banned from baseball. Milwaukee's Sausage Race is one of the best traditions in sports today.
Perhaps this should have been in teal! That Sausage Race got nationwide publicity for a week! I thought it was absolutly hysterical!

mcfish
06-30-2004, 03:55 PM
The teal button is under the color changing box. :rolleyes:I may have been exagerating a little, but I really do hate Randal Simon the Sausage Beater for that and I really do think the Sausage Race is a great event to have at a Brewers game (ok, maybe not the best tradition in all of sports). I was born in Milwaukee, and while I thank God everyday that my parents had the foresight to move back to Chicago when I was 7, I did still grow up a big Brewers fan. I try to go up there 5 times or so for Brewers games and the Sausage Race is always fun to watch.

Now let's go get Jason Kendall and lots of cash for a player to be named later!

Flight #24
06-30-2004, 04:14 PM
I may have been exagerating a little, but I really do hate Randal Simon the Sausage Beater for that and I really do think the Sausage Race is a great event to have at a Brewers game (ok, maybe not the best tradition in all of sports). I was born in Milwaukee, and while I thank God everyday that my parents had the foresight to move back to Chicago when I was 7, I did still grow up a big Brewers fan. I try to go up there 5 times or so for Brewers games and the Sausage Race is always fun to watch.

Now let's go get Jason Kendall and lots of cash for a player to be named later!
here's an interesting question: anyone know if there are any rules surrounding PTBNLs? How about a deal where we get Kendall+cash (half his salary), and then give them a PTBNL based on how we do: We win the WS, they can have Sweeney/Anderson. We get to ALCS, it drops to something like Nanita+Wing. Otherwise, it's something like Nanita+ some A pitcher we haven't heard of (except Randar & Daver - you guys know EVERYONE!)

I know I do deals like this in fantasy leagues....possible in the bigs?

Dadawg_77
06-30-2004, 04:15 PM
here's an interesting question: anyone know if there are any rules surrounding PTBNLs? How about a deal where we get Kendall+cash (half his salary), and then give them a PTBNL based on how we do: We win the WS, they can have Sweeney/Anderson. We get to ALCS, it drops to something like Nanita+Wing. Otherwise, it's something like Nanita+ some A pitcher we haven't heard of (except Randar & Daver - you guys know EVERYONE!)

I know I do deals like this in fantasy leagues....possible in the bigs?
Yes. You give a team a few list depending on the condtions set the team gets to pick a name of the lists.