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View Full Version : Rosenthal: Sox paid a heavy price


jeremyb1
06-28-2004, 02:27 PM
The heavy price that the White Sox paid for Mariners right-hander Freddy Garcia and catcher Ben Davis makes it vital that they retain Garcia, who is a free agent at the end of the season.


http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2525164

Flight #24
06-28-2004, 02:39 PM
http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2525164
Although nowhere does it say they overpaid.....

hold2dibber
06-28-2004, 02:40 PM
He got that right.

Iwritecode
06-28-2004, 02:56 PM
The heavy price that the White Sox paid for Mariners right-hander Freddy Garcia and catcher Ben Davis makes it vital that they retain Garcia, who is a free agent at the end of the season.


Can we get a "no **** sherlock" tag made up for Mr. Rosenthal - Master of the Obvious?

Randar68
06-28-2004, 02:59 PM
Although nowhere does it say they overpaid.....
I still think this all depends on if they sign him to a long-term deal that is good for both parties.

If they sign him in the offseason, it would cost them their first round draft pick, and presumably, a higher cost in dollars. By trading for him now, they get him for more than half the season and a playoff push, and if he leaves, the Sox get 2 draft picks.

Basically, the cost of this was:

If they sign him: (Olivo+Reed+Morse) - (1 draft pick + minus any discount you could infer from his open market value + hlaf season + possible playoffs contribution )

If they don't sign him: (Olivo+Reed+Morse) - (2 draft picks in FA compensation - half season and possible playoffs worth of production)

Put in those terms, it's a little easier to swallow for me. This organization's neglect of the catching position for the past 5+ years is catching up to them in this situation.

jeremyb1
06-28-2004, 03:15 PM
Although nowhere does it say they overpaid.....

Although nowhere did I insinuate Rosenthal ever made such a comment...

jeremyb1
06-28-2004, 03:18 PM
If they sign him in the offseason, it would cost them their first round draft pick, and presumably, a higher cost in dollars.

If they sign him: (Olivo+Reed+Morse) - (1 draft pick + minus any discount you could infer from his open market value + hlaf season + possible playoffs contribution )

The problem is we'd have to have a historic draft to end up with players of Reed and Olivos' calliber (especailly since we'd lose a late first round pick) and it'll still take at least a couple years for them to reach the majors presumably assuming Garcia leaves and if he stays it's basically impossible the late first round pick we would've lost to sign him as a free agent could come close to equaling Morse/Reed/Olivo.

Wanne
06-28-2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Put in those terms, it's a little easier to swallow for me. This organization's neglect of the catching position for the past 5+ years is catching up to them in this situation.

Randar...while I'll agree with the fact the sox neglecting the position for quite some time, I gotta say the thing that does somewhat take away a little of the sting of losing Olivo is the Sox taking Lucy in the second round. Even though he's a few years away...I still think he's gonna be a good one down the road. I know that doesn't help in the very near future...but...

Randar68
06-28-2004, 03:28 PM
The problem is we'd have to have a historic draft to end up with players of Reed and Olivos' calliber (especailly since we'd lose a late first round pick) and it'll still take at least a couple years for them to reach the majors presumably assuming Garcia leaves and if he stays it's basically impossible the late first round pick we would've lost to sign him as a free agent could come close to equaling Morse/Reed/Olivo.Well, like I said, I am more willing to look favorably upon the trade if they now sign him to an extension, as it saves them a draft pick from next year if they were to sign him in the offseason, they get a little more than half a season out of him now, and they also MAY be able to get a slightly below-market deal for him.

I'm not a fan of Morse, so I really don't care about losing him, but Olivo and Reed would be a hell of a haul from any draft, you're right about that (also neglecting the time it would take to develop those draftees into MLB-ready players.)

jabrch
06-28-2004, 03:29 PM
Although nowhere does it say they overpaid.....
#2 starters should have a high price - but I agree Flight - it wasn't a ridiculous price.

Randar68
06-28-2004, 03:30 PM
Randar...while I'll agree with the fact the sox neglecting the position for quite some time, I gotta say the thing that does somewhat take away a little of the sting of losing Olivo is the Sox taking Lucy in the second round. Even though he's a few years away...I still think he's gonna be a good one down the road. I know that doesn't help in the very near future...but...
How does that take away the sting? By the time Lucy's ready, Olivo will probably be a well-established MLB regular, if not an All-Star. The Sox had Lucy and Olivo, and Lucy hasn't seen a pitch above Rookie League. I like Lucy, but the 2 are completely independent.

A. Cavatica
06-28-2004, 08:31 PM
Plus Lucy's been seeing a lot of time at DH. Is he hurt?

Randar68
06-28-2004, 08:33 PM
Plus Lucy's been seeing a lot of time at DH. Is he hurt?
no, he has already played a full college season and he doesn't know any of the pitchers on the roster well yet. The other 2 catchers worked with these pitchers in the development leagues for 2-3 months already. they're just trying to get him consistent AB's, as he's the best positional prospect at Great Falls this year.

Mohoney
06-28-2004, 09:26 PM
I still think this all depends on if they sign him to a long-term deal that is good for both parties.

If they sign him in the offseason, it would cost them their first round draft pick, and presumably, a higher cost in dollars. By trading for him now, they get him for more than half the season and a playoff push, and if he leaves, the Sox get 2 draft picks.

Basically, the cost of this was:

If they sign him: (Olivo+Reed+Morse) - (1 draft pick + minus any discount you could infer from his open market value + hlaf season + possible playoffs contribution )

If they don't sign him: (Olivo+Reed+Morse) - (2 draft picks in FA compensation - half season and possible playoffs worth of production)

Put in those terms, it's a little easier to swallow for me. This organization's neglect of the catching position for the past 5+ years is catching up to them in this situation.

Did we overpay? Probably, but the two definite positives for me that make overpaying worthwhile are that:

(A)We got pitching while giving up NO pitching of our own. Outfield is a definite strength of our farm system, making (for me, anyway) Reed's loss easier to swallow. Plus, Wilson Valdez is probably more highly touted right now than Michael Morse, Making Morse's loss (again, I'm only speaking for myself here) easier to bear.

(B)We basically get an extra 5 or so starts from Freddy by pulling the trigger now instead of waiting for the July 31 deadline.In a division that was decided by only 4 games last year, every extra game that we can throw Garcia out there is crucial.

As for losing Olivo, I feel confident that Kenny Williams has something cooking for another catcher. If he doesn't, then hopefully Jamie Burke can continue to contribute as well as he has offensively.

Basically, I think that Kenny Williams thought that either Reed or Borchard would be the price to get that lock-down pitcher. Williams and Bavasi were able to agree on Reed.

We'll just have to wait and see.

johnny_mostil
06-28-2004, 09:53 PM
As for losing Olivo, I feel confident that Kenny Williams has something cooking for another catcher. If he doesn't, then hopefully Jamie Burke can continue to contribute as well as he has offensively.

I think it's a little much to expect. He's hitting .444.

Mohoney
06-28-2004, 11:02 PM
I think it's a little much to expect. He's hitting .444.

Come on. You know what I mean. Of course he's not going to hit .400. Anything over .250 with an OBP over .333 is gravy.

doublem23
06-28-2004, 11:05 PM
Wow... Ken Rosenthal sure is on top of things. :rolleyes:

mendozaln
06-28-2004, 11:09 PM
Did we overpay? Probably, but the two definite positives for me that make overpaying worthwhile are that...
If you think the trade is good, that's one thing. But "overpaying" is NEVER "worthwhile". That's just the definition of "overpaying", paying more than you should.