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View Full Version : Who has the best 2 rotations in the American League


jabrch
06-28-2004, 12:28 PM
And specifically, once the playoffs start and teams go to 4 man rotations, then who is best?

NYY - Mussina, Vazquez, Brown (DL), Lieber, Contreras
Boston - Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wakefield, Aroyo
Minnesota - Radke, Santana, Lhose, Silva, Guerrier
Sox - Loaiza, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, Rauch
Oakland - Zito, Mulder, Hudson (DL), Harden, Redman
Anaheim - Colon, Escobar, Washburn, Lackey, Sele

I'd say Oakland is #1 both now as a 5 man (with Hudson healthy in a few weeks) and once they go to a 4 man rotation, even though Zito has been a mess all year. I'd say the Sox are next best, possibly tied with the Yanks. Boston may have the best 1/2, but they are soft after that. Minny is weak after #3. Anaheim is in real trouble with how bad Colon has been all year.

Given that we know our offense can bang with anyone out there, this rotation is also now as good as anyone (except Oakland) in the AL. This team is now built to win - this year. And the great thing is - since Seattle sent us money this year in the Garcia deal, we are clearly not done spending.

Philo-Sox-er
06-28-2004, 12:32 PM
How much money did Seattle throw into the deal? Anybody know?

Flight #24
06-28-2004, 12:34 PM
How much money did Seattle throw into the deal? Anybody know?
I saw a report somehwere that they basically picked up Ben davis contract. Not a lot of benefit there financially.

Mickster
06-28-2004, 12:36 PM
My understanding is that Seattle threw in about $700K to cover the remaining costs of Ben Davis' contract. It's not like they are sending over $6M......

markp8867
06-28-2004, 12:40 PM
And specifically, once the playoffs start and teams go to 4 man rotations, then who is best?

NYY - Mussina, Vazquez, Brown (DL), Lieber, Contreras
Boston - Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wakefield, Aroyo
Minnesota - Radke, Santana, Lhose, Silva, Guerrier
Sox - Loaiza, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, Rauch
Oakland - Zito, Mulder, Hudson (DL), Harden, Redman
Anaheim - Colon, Escobar, Washburn, Lackey, Sele

I'd say Oakland is #1 both now as a 5 man (with Hudson healthy in a few weeks) and once they go to a 4 man rotation, even though Zito has been a mess all year. I'd say the Sox are next best, possibly tied with the Yanks. Boston may have the best 1/2, but they are soft after that. Minny is weak after #3. Anaheim is in real trouble with how bad Colon has been all year.

Given that we know our offense can bang with anyone out there, this rotation is also now as good as anyone (except Oakland) in the AL. This team is now built to win - this year. And the great thing is - since Seattle sent us money this year in the Garcia deal, we are clearly not done spending.
Right now I would say the White Sox have the best rotation especially when Schoenweis is healthy again. Oakland and the Yankees are pretty close too though. Contreras has one good game and he is suddenly the greatest pitcher ever? I don't think so. He might turn it around for the rest of the season but that remains to be seen. One thing is for sure, the White Sox are in good shape as far as starting pitching goes!

fquaye149
06-28-2004, 12:45 PM
let's not go too overboard. We have the most bipolar rotation in baseball.

Sure, when our top guys are on their game they're studs, but they have some appallingly bad stretches.

I like our rotation though a lot. throw in another big time starter (ortiz) and we would have hands down the best, but right now, i'd take the a's, the angels and probably the red sox or yankees over us, though they all have their weaknesses as well.

Dadawg_77
06-28-2004, 12:46 PM
Reg and Playoffs Season

A's
Yank
Boston - The Sox' are close together, but their top is better then our top so they get the nod.
Sox
Angles
Twins.

kojak
06-28-2004, 12:50 PM
I'd say we are a solid 3rd. But what is scary is facing the Angels' starters head-to-head. Sele and Lackey both own the Sox...


Go Rangers! :cool:

nasox
06-28-2004, 12:52 PM
let's not go too overboard. We have the most bipolar rotation in baseball.

Sure, when our top guys are on their game they're studs, but they have some appallingly bad stretches.

I think that goes for any rotation in baseball, not just to ours. Every team, rotation, lineup, etc. is going to have rough spells.

HomeFish
06-28-2004, 12:52 PM
Sele and Lackey both own the Sox...


I'll give you Sele, but we beat the snot out of Lackey last time he was here.

JoseCanseco6969
06-28-2004, 12:53 PM
Sox - Loaiza, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, Rauch
.
dont count out schoenweis. he's already proved he can pitch well this season, and hopefully after his stint on the DL he can be solid at the end of that rotation.

kojak
06-28-2004, 01:06 PM
I'll give you Sele, but we beat the snot out of Lackey last time he was here.
Then what the hell was I thinking?????

:rolleyes:

TomParrish79
06-28-2004, 01:35 PM
Playoff wise, I think I would take my chances with Pedro and Schilling. Two great starters can win you the world series, just look at what Schilling and Johnson did.

jabrch
06-28-2004, 03:37 PM
Playoff wise, I think I would take my chances with Pedro and Schilling. Two great starters can win you the world series, just look at what Schilling and Johnson did.

Assuming you need a 4 man rotation, I'd take our 4 as tied with, or better than any 4 in the AL except Oakland. And given that Zito has sucked and Hudson is hurt, it isn't by such a large margin.

TaylorStSox
06-28-2004, 08:02 PM
And specifically, once the playoffs start and teams go to 4 man rotations, then who is best?

NYY - Mussina, Vazquez, Brown (DL), Lieber, Contreras
Boston - Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wakefield, Aroyo
Minnesota - Radke, Santana, Lhose, Silva, Guerrier
Sox - Loaiza, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, Rauch
Oakland - Zito, Mulder, Hudson (DL), Harden, Redman
Anaheim - Colon, Escobar, Washburn, Lackey, Sele

I'd say Oakland is #1 both now as a 5 man (with Hudson healthy in a few weeks) and once they go to a 4 man rotation, even though Zito has been a mess all year. I'd say the Sox are next best, possibly tied with the Yanks. Boston may have the best 1/2, but they are soft after that. Minny is weak after #3. Anaheim is in real trouble with how bad Colon has been all year.

Given that we know our offense can bang with anyone out there, this rotation is also now as good as anyone (except Oakland) in the AL. This team is now built to win - this year. And the great thing is - since Seattle sent us money this year in the Garcia deal, we are clearly not done spending.
Assuming everyone is healthy, I'd say we're 5th. Loaiza really isn't the pitcher from last year. Garland hasn't developed like I thought he would. Shchoney hasn't really proven anything.

MRKARNO
06-28-2004, 08:11 PM
And specifically, once the playoffs start and teams go to 4 man rotations, then who is best?

NYY - Mussina, Vazquez, Brown (DL), Lieber, Contreras
Boston - Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Wakefield, Aroyo
Minnesota - Radke, Santana, Lhose, Silva, Guerrier
Sox - Loaiza, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, Rauch
Oakland - Zito, Mulder, Hudson (DL), Harden, Redman
Anaheim - Colon, Escobar, Washburn, Lackey, Sele

I'd say Oakland is #1 both now as a 5 man (with Hudson healthy in a few weeks) and once they go to a 4 man rotation, even though Zito has been a mess all year. I'd say the Sox are next best, possibly tied with the Yanks. Boston may have the best 1/2, but they are soft after that. Minny is weak after #3. Anaheim is in real trouble with how bad Colon has been all year.

Given that we know our offense can bang with anyone out there, this rotation is also now as good as anyone (except Oakland) in the AL. This team is now built to win - this year. And the great thing is - since Seattle sent us money this year in the Garcia deal, we are clearly not done spending.
The best is Oakland. Then it gets very complicated. I would say that Boston and the White Sox are on the next tier down and the Yankees and Angels on a further tier and then the Twinkies rotation. Lots of good pitchers with inflated ERAs all around the AL: Mussina, Lowe(Though it remains to be seen whether he really should be a starter), Pedro (relatively), Zito, Buehrle, etc.

brewerfan
06-28-2004, 11:46 PM
In the Playoffs, the best rotation belongs to Boston. Actually, you CAN go to a 4 man rotation, but teams with a couple VERY good pitchers will go to a 3 man. In a 5 game series, pitcher A and 1A will each start twice, so the opponent must win 2 games from pitchers A and 1A to advance, presumably very hard to do. With that in mind, who the hell would want to face Pedro and Schilling twice each in a five game series? In a 7 game series, pitcher A gets to start 3 times. Not fun to do.

My Rankings(Playoff edition)
1. Boston. First off, a knuckler can dominate if he is on, as Wakefield proved last ALCS. Him plus Pedro and Schilling can be unbeatable.

T-2. Yanks. Vasquez is *quite* good, Vintage 1997-98 Kevin Brown also can dominate, and Mussina might be the best pitcher recently to NOT win the CY Young.

T-2. Chokeland. Hudson and Mulder, with a resurgent Zito possibly.

4. Twins. Of the last 3, I think Santana is the best starter. The Twins are almost here by default, because the Angels and White Sox don't have a true ace, unlike the first 3.

T-5. White Sox. Would move ahead of the Twins if Loiaza could pitch in 2003 form. Buehrle, although he is a great pitcher, might see problems in the playoffs, as soft tossers tend to do.

T-5. Angels. Again, if Colon could regain his form, they could move to 4th as well. I just don't see as much consistency here.

To Karno, you know damn well who this is.

MRKARNO
06-28-2004, 11:53 PM
4. Twins. Of the last 3, I think Santana is the best starter. The Twins are almost here by default, because the Angels and White Sox don't have a true ace, unlike the first 3.

T-5. White Sox. Would move ahead of the Twins if Loiaza could pitch in 2003 form. Buehrle, although he is a great pitcher, might see problems in the playoffs, as soft tossers tend to do.


While the Sox might not have a "true ace," they just acquired a player who is close to one in Freddy Garcia. And another thing, it remains to be seen whether or not June was an aberration for Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland and SChoenweis (who somehow all picked the same time to slump) or a trend.

brewerfan
06-28-2004, 11:58 PM
How about the NL? Or do you guys not care?

MRKARNO
06-28-2004, 11:59 PM
How about the NL? Or do you guys not care?
Let's worry about winning the AL first, which in itself is a tall order

StillMissOzzie
06-29-2004, 02:14 AM
Assuming you need a 4 man rotation, I'd take our 4 as tied with, or better than any 4 in the AL except Oakland. And given that Zito has sucked and Hudson is hurt, it isn't by such a large margin.
I'm not convinced that you even need a 4 man rotation in post-season play. Usually, with the travel days, your ace will go games #1, 4, and 7 if needed. That leaves you a #2 and a #3 for the other 4 games


Playoff wise, I think I would take my chances with Pedro and Schilling. Two great starters can win you the world series, just look at what Schilling and Johnson did.
But I certainly would not put Buehrle and Loaiza (or Buehrle & Garcia?) on a par with those two, so we'll need at least a 3rd starter to show up.

SMO
:gulp: