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View Full Version : Miguel a "problem" calling games?


LASOXFAN
06-27-2004, 11:59 PM
According to Tim Kurkjian, KW told him that Olivo was having trouble calling games and that he only caught Loiza and Garland because of this.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/motion/showcase/index?videos=1830545

Anyone else aware of this problem?

Oh, and Garcia is 4-1 against the Twins with a 3.69 ERA.

Irishsox1
06-28-2004, 12:03 AM
I remember a game earlier this year when Hawk critizied Miguel for placement and pitch calling, but it wasn't a "slam", it was more saying that he had to call more pitchs inside more to certain hitters. Other than that, KW comments were news to me.

HomeFish
06-28-2004, 12:04 AM
I wasn't aware Olivo called games. I thought the bench did it for him.

TaylorStSox
06-28-2004, 12:04 AM
Miguel didn't call his own games. However, he was 2 years removed from AA. He's still learning. He was just learning on the ML level.

daveeym
06-28-2004, 12:06 AM
I remember a game earlier this year when Hawk critizied Miguel for placement and pitch calling, but it wasn't a "slam", it was more saying that he had to call more pitchs inside more to certain hitters. Other than that, KW comments were news to me.
Hawk and DJ were saying the same thing today, they tried to actually blame Loiza for it more than Miggy particularly after scammies 2nd homer.

TornLabrum
06-28-2004, 12:07 AM
I wasn't aware Olivo called games. I thought the bench did it for him.
A few days ago one of the broadcasters was talking about how some managers micromanage and want to control every tiny aspect of the game. The obvious implication is that Ozzie is not one of them. That being the case, I would assume that he lets his catchers call their own games, pretty much like the catcher when he came up did.

I can also see the criticism on pitch selection if it was Olivo who called for all of those change-ups that Garland has given up homers on.

mantis1212
06-28-2004, 12:13 AM
The quote was the they "had concerns about his pitch-calling ability". This doesn't mean that he was calling them the games. Right now he's not, but eventually they were hoping he could do it without Sandy's assistance

Brian26
06-28-2004, 12:16 AM
I remember a game earlier this year when Hawk critizied Miguel for placement and pitch calling, but it wasn't a "slam", it was more saying that he had to call more pitchs inside more to certain hitters. Other than that, KW comments were news to me.
The one time this sticks out in my mind was earlier in the year when Cotts gave up a dinger after having 2 strikes on a guy and then throwing a changeup. Can't remember who that was against...it was back in April or early May.

bluestar
06-28-2004, 12:19 AM
The one time this sticks out in my mind was earlier in the year when Cotts gave up a dinger after having 2 strikes on a guy and then throwing a changeup. Can't remember who that was against...it was back in April or early May.
Sandy was catching that game, if it is the same one I am thinking of.

nasox
06-28-2004, 12:25 AM
The one time this sticks out in my mind was earlier in the year when Cotts gave up a dinger after having 2 strikes on a guy and then throwing a changeup. Can't remember who that was against...it was back in April or early May.
I think it was against Tampa but I am probably wrong.

WhiteSox = Life
06-28-2004, 12:32 AM
The one time this sticks out in my mind was earlier in the year when Cotts gave up a dinger after having 2 strikes on a guy and then throwing a changeup. Can't remember who that was against...it was back in April or early May.
Ooh, ooh! I'm gonna try Josh Phelps of the Toronto Blue Jays!

StockdaleForVeep
06-28-2004, 12:35 AM
Managers do call the games but catchers do call specific pitches\where to throw them. Reason why sandy is even with this club still is because he's a brilliant mind behind the blate. I wish we could perform a brain transplant and put sandys brain in olivos body.

Olivo also had alot of throwing errors to consider in.

South Side
06-28-2004, 12:44 AM
Managers do call the games but catchers do call specific pitches\where to throw them. Reason why sandy is even with this club still is because he's a brilliant mind behind the blate. I wish we could perform a brain transplant and put sandys brain in olivos body.

Olivo also had alot of throwing errors to consider in.

I wouldn't exactly consider his arm a problem. The few throwing errors he did have were minuscule compared to the throws that were right on and got men out (case in point- today with Patterson). He has a cannon and you can't deny that.

jeremyb1
06-28-2004, 01:24 AM
Catcher's game calling is one of the most overrated phenomenons in all of baseball. There have been a number of studies look at Catcher's ERA and they all failed to discover a relationship between a catcher's game calling and pitchers' performance. If that's so important why not get no hit, no field catchers that know a ton about pitching? Furthermore is Ben Davis or Burke any better?

MRKARNO
06-28-2004, 01:34 AM
Catcher's game calling is one of the most overrated phenomenons in all of baseball. There have been a number of studies look at Catcher's ERA and they all failed to discover a relationship between a catcher's game calling and pitchers' performance. If that's so important why not get no hit, no field catchers that know a ton about pitching? Furthermore is Ben Davis or Burke any better?
Look at my post on Miguel Olivo being overvalued. The fact remains that there is a strong correlation between having a veteran catcher and making and having success in the playoffs. Billy Beane himself admits something to the effect of "My **** doesnt work in the playoffs." Well, having a Veteran does work.

jeremyb1
06-28-2004, 02:03 AM
Look at my post on Miguel Olivo being overvalued. The fact remains that there is a strong correlation between having a veteran catcher and making and having success in the playoffs. Billy Beane himself admits something to the effect of "My **** doesnt work in the playoffs." Well, having a Veteran does work.

Dude I don't want to offend you but I think your research on having veteran catchers is a joke. First of all the sample size is unreasonably small since you're only looking at the playoff teams from one season. Secondly, you didn't even look at the teams that didn't make the playoffs. For all we know their catchers could be even older especially since catchers tend to mature late and hence there aren't many 24 year old backstops in the game. I don't see any way that your examination covers any stone BP's study on gamecalling left unturned and it clearly lacks the same reliance on the scientific method.

MRKARNO
06-28-2004, 02:07 AM
Dude I don't want to offend you but I think your research on having veteran catchers is a joke. First of all the sample size is unreasonably small since you're only looking at the playoff teams from one season. Secondly, you didn't even look at the teams that didn't make the playoffs. For all we know their catchers could be even older especially since catchers tend to mature late and hence there aren't many 24 year old backstops in the game. I don't see any way that your examination covers any stone BP's study on gamecalling left unturned and it clearly lacks the same reliance on the scientific method.
I can't provide the exact stat, but I remember when Mauer was named starting catcher for the Twins that a lot of people were throwing around that stat that in the era of the Wild Card and 3 divisions that a very very small percentage of playoff teams had a catcher under 27 years of age. You could look it up if you refuse to accept my word on it

jeremyb1
06-28-2004, 02:10 AM
I can't provide the exact stat, but I remember when Mauer was named starting catcher for the Twins that a lot of people were throwing around that stat that in the era of the Wild Card and 3 divisions that a very very small percentage of playoff teams had a catcher under 27 years of age. You could look it up if you refuse to accept my word on it

Well my point though is very few teams have starting catchers under 27 period so the mere number of playoff teams with catchers under 27 is pretty meaningless.