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View Full Version : Andruw Jones?- surely this can't be true...


Tragg
06-27-2004, 10:45 AM
"The Sox reportedly are talking about acquiring Jones to fill their need for a center fielder and sending Ordonez to the Braves, who are desperate for a power-hitting outfielder. Even if that means renting him for half a season, as they would with Ordonez, who is eligible for free agency after the World Series."

So we want to saddle ourselves with Jones for $12-$14 mill for the next 3.5 years? A JOnes who the author kindly describes as an "inconsistent talent". Maggs will command about that money.

If we can spend $12-$15 mill on a player, let it be Maggs.

Let us not bail Schuerholtz out of his mistakes by carrying them on our back.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-chris27.html

SEALgep
06-27-2004, 10:49 AM
I have no desire to acquire Jones and his salary. I would assume just use the money more appropriately if Maggs walks then to give it to Jones who was given that contract in a bull market. We could do a lot with that money next year, and this move doesn't make us better this year. It's a no brainer to me, but we'll see.

DaveIsHere
06-27-2004, 10:49 AM
icky icky icky!!!:?:

Tragg
06-27-2004, 11:47 AM
It may be blasphemy but I have no problem trading Magglio if it helps us- we can't sign him (or perhaps it is more accurate to say he won't sign with us if the reports are true that he turned down $12 mill- if he did, that isn't loyalty).

But Jones would exacerbate problems.

Find a team with excess starters. I can think of one, but we would never trade Ordonez to them (and for good reason).

pilotsjs89
06-27-2004, 11:48 AM
--

hose
06-27-2004, 11:51 AM
Actually on ESPN 1000 on gamenight last night they were saying that there was an almost completed deal that would send Andruw Jones and Russ Ortiz to the Sox for Magglio. The contract details just need to be worked out. The broadcasters seemed to think that the Sox would make out like bandits in this deal. Agree?:)If Atlanta is willing to eat some of Jones's contract

Brian26
06-27-2004, 11:51 AM
The problem isn't really that difficult to understand.

If you trade Ordonez to get rid of the contract for the time being, you're going to expect young, talented players in return who aren't making big money yet.

If you trade Ordonez to try to improve the team for the stretch run (which really is an interesting thought, as you probably hurt your team more than help it by trading Mags in any situation), you're going to expect talented guys in return who are probably already making as much as Mags.

I'd much rather keep Mags for the stretch run. If we lose him after the season, at least we get nice draft picks in return. If we can add payroll by trading some minor league guys to pick up a starter, let's go that route.

SoxFan76
06-27-2004, 11:52 AM
Jones AND Ortiz sounds a little better. They should throw in a minor leaguer or some cash with that. Magglio may not be a Vlad, but he is so consistent, and a lot of teams would love that kind of consistent production.

Magglio for AJones straight up would be a great deal for Atlanta. Throw in Ortiz, I like that trade for the Sox.

Philo-Sox-er
06-27-2004, 11:52 AM
Do we bring up Reed/LTP to play RF?


Batting Order:

Harris
Uribe
Thomas
Lee
Jones
Konerko
Reed/LTP
Crede
Olivo/Alomar

Rotation:
Loaiza
Buehrle
Garland
Ortiz
Shoenwies

Not sure...

Brian26
06-27-2004, 11:53 AM
Actually on ESPN 1000 on gamenight last night they were saying that there was an almost completed deal that would send Andruw Jones and Russ Ortiz to the Sox for Magglio. The contract details just need to be worked out. The broadcasters seemed to think that the Sox would make out like bandits in this deal.
Wow. I'm surprised this deal is so close to happening.

MRKARNO
06-27-2004, 11:54 AM
Wow. I'm surprised this deal is so close to happening. :KW

"When was the last time that ther media told you about one of my deals 4 days beforehand? You know I like to fly under the radar. Maggs is not going to be traded and if you here a rumor that he is, then you know it's false. You don't even have to try to confirm it."

Brian26
06-27-2004, 11:54 AM
Magglio for AJones straight up would be a great deal for Atlanta. Throw in Ortiz, I like that trade for the Sox.
How about Borchard and Rauch for Jones and Ortiz?

Brian26
06-27-2004, 11:56 AM
"When was the last time that the media told you about one of my deals 4 days beforehand?"
Good point. :D:

RedPinStripes
06-27-2004, 11:58 AM
I'm not sure on Andrew Jones. Great defensive player, but his .240 average isnt selling me.

jabrch
06-27-2004, 11:59 AM
I sure hope we get Atlanta to eat some of Andruw Jones' contract in this deal.

I do like Ortiz and think he'd look good in the middle of our rotation, I just don't know that Jones is the answer. Although, 2 years ago, one would say he was on the short list of the best young OF in the game.

It would sure be nice to have a great defensive CF here along with another decent starter. I'll give KW the benefit of the doubt here. He knows a lot more about the game than I do. If he thinks this will win us a division, I guess I have no choice but to go with it?

I can bitch all I want, but that won't change things.

Brian26
06-27-2004, 12:01 PM
Jones seems like a really nice defensive player, but a .240 average is going to kill us with the subtraction of Ordonez.

Tragg
06-27-2004, 12:01 PM
If you trade Ordonez to try to improve the team for the stretch run (which really is an interesting thought, as you probably hurt your team more than help it by trading Mags in any situation), you're going to expect talented guys in return who are probably already making as much as Mags.

I'd much rather keep Mags for the stretch run. If we lose him after the season, at least we get nice draft picks in return. If we can add payroll by trading some minor league guys to pick up a starter, let's go that route.
And in Jones' case, for 3.5 more years.

Williams, and his predecessor, have "undervalued" (I hate to use that Beane word) OBP- JOnes' has been medicore if not poor for 3 of the last 4 years. And also, Ortiz' numbers suggest that he's nothing close to a top of the rotation starter.
Pointless trade IMO.

Win1ForMe
06-27-2004, 12:15 PM
Jones seems like a really nice defensive player, but a .240 average is going to kill us with the subtraction of Ordonez.
I think Jones, batting in front of Frank and playing at USCF, could hit 25 HRs rest of the way. He's a great fastball hitter.

I wouldn't be opposed to getting Everett back from the Expos, although not sure how much salary we'd be taking on at that point.

Soxfest
06-27-2004, 12:34 PM
I would make this deal in a minute, Maggs is history anyway and the Sox have not had a CF like A.Jones in years, but again this makes KW the LIAR he is, he said 2 weeks ago Maggs would not be traded. Ortiz is the cherry on top.

JB98
06-27-2004, 12:53 PM
I would make this deal in a minute, Maggs is history anyway and the Sox have not had a CF like A.Jones in years, but again this makes KW the LIAR he is, he said 2 weeks ago Maggs would not be traded. Ortiz is the cherry on top.
A. Jones is an automatic out in the Atlanta batting order. He's having the worst season of his enigmatic career, and he's been moved down to the seventh spot in the lineup. Just because he is a big media name does not mean we should acquire him. Ortiz is nothing special. I don't think he's any better than Loaiza. We are going to give up our best player for this? You have to be kidding me. I don't care if we lose Magglio in the offseason. I'm worried about 2004, and we will not win this year if we trade Magglio. Screw the future. We all could be dead by 2005.

WinningUgly!
06-27-2004, 01:16 PM
If the deal really is Maggs for Ortiz & Jones, KW has to do it. Jones is struggling a little at the plate this year, but Damn he'd look good in CF for us! His average numbers over the last 4 seasons: BA-.274 HR-35 RBI-104. Tough to beat those numbers for a CFer. It never hurts to add a gold glover to the outfield, either. Andruw has won the last 6 NL CF GGs.

I still have a hard time believing the Braves would be willing to do this. Especially with Maggs currently on the DL.

jabrch
06-27-2004, 01:22 PM
If the deal really is Maggs for Ortiz & Jones, KW has to do it. Jones is struggling a little at the plate this year, but Damn he'd look good in CF for us! His average numbers over the last 4 seasons: BA-.274 HR-35 RBI-104. Tough to beat those numbers for a CFer. It never hurts to add a gold glover to the outfield, either. Andruw has won the last 6 NL CF GGs.

I still have a hard time believing the Braves would be willing to do this. Especially with Maggs currently on the DL.
And Jones would likely get to hit between Frank and Carlos. That's a heck of a better spot than hitting between Julio Franco and Charles Thomas. (Incidentally, if you combine Julio Franco and Charles Thomas, you could get Franco Thomas - but that's a far cry from Frank Thomas, huh?)

I'd do it - If Magglio turns down a last ditch - 4/48 offer, this deal helps us a lot today - and is better for us in the future.

WSox8404
06-27-2004, 01:29 PM
I would make the deal too, but I don't know if its going to happen soon. Rooney and Levine were saying that Mags can be out until the break. Atlanta would at least need to see if Mags was playing good again when he finally becomes healthy again. This deal may very well happen, but just not in the next month.

sox_fan_forever
06-27-2004, 01:34 PM
As much as I like Maggs I'm all for trading him if we can get something that's really going to help us. I'm just not sure that Ortiz and Jones are the answer, but I'd love to be wrong if this ends up happening.

jeremyb1
06-27-2004, 01:39 PM
And in Jones' case, for 3.5 more years.

Williams, and his predecessor, have "undervalued" (I hate to use that Beane word) OBP- JOnes' has been medicore if not poor for 3 of the last 4 years. And also, Ortiz' numbers suggest that he's nothing close to a top of the rotation starter.
Pointless trade IMO.

Jones OBP was .366 two seasons ago so I disagree somewhat. It was also .338 last season which is average to slightly above average. I feel like this deal would be more of a no brainer if Jones wasn't getting paid quite so much. I'd rather put that money towards Beltran than Jones. However, that's probably a pipe dream. The reality is that while Jones isn't as good offensively as Maggs he's every bit as valuable as Maggs offensively since he plays a more position of less offensive strength. Not only is Jones a CF, he's an outstanding one. He'll win you a couple games a season with his defense. Also he's younger at 27 than Maggs at 29. Although Jones has struggled recently, theoretically he should be entering his prime while Maggs should be exiting his.

Ortiz is a free agent after this season and I wouldn't keep him past that. He's not all that great, he'd simply add good depth in the rotation the rest of the way.

I'm not a huge fan of this deal if we're giving up Rauch and/or top pitching prospects.

CWSGuy406
06-27-2004, 01:52 PM
And in Jones' case, for 3.5 more years.

Williams, and his predecessor, have "undervalued" (I hate to use that Beane word) OBP- JOnes' has been medicore if not poor for 3 of the last 4 years. And also, Ortiz' numbers suggest that he's nothing close to a top of the rotation starter.
Pointless trade IMO.
I agree with you exactly, Tragg.

Ortiz would put up a 4.25+ ERA in the AL/at the Cell. Jones is hitting .240 this year, doesn't walk much, and he's only had one .300+ season. Only one.

This trade would suck. Jones might be a big name, but he isn't what this team needs. Insert Drew's name instead of Jones' and we'll start talking, but not Jones...

Philo-Sox-er
06-27-2004, 01:56 PM
But Drew can't stay healthy. Only twice has he played 135 games. He's had 3 seasons where he played just over a hundred games.


He'd make a great DH...

CWSGuy406
06-27-2004, 02:03 PM
But Drew can't stay healthy. Only twice has he played 135 games. He's had 3 seasons where he played just over a hundred games.


He'd make a great DH...
I'd put him in right and keep him there, as opposed to a place where he'd more likely get injured, CF. Drew is exactly what this team needs, high average, high OBP guy. Not to mention he's a lefty.

Philo-Sox-er
06-27-2004, 02:05 PM
I'd put him in right and keep him there, as opposed to a place where he'd more likely get injured, CF. Drew is exactly what this team needs, high average, high OBP guy. Not to mention he's a lefty.
I agree in that I think Drew would be awesome here...especially as a lefty power hitter. But he has always been a RF and that has not prevented him from chronic injury problems.

I'd say trade Konerko for Drew, make Drew the DH and put Frank back at 1st where he produces more anyway.

Maybe this could be a mega trade!

Rex Hudler
06-27-2004, 02:20 PM
I agree with you exactly, Tragg.

Ortiz would put up a 4.25+ ERA in the AL/at the Cell. Jones is hitting .240 this year, doesn't walk much, and he's only had one .300+ season. Only one.

This trade would suck. Jones might be a big name, but he isn't what this team needs. Insert Drew's name instead of Jones' and we'll start talking, but not Jones...
I disagree. I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Jones is a premier defensive CF and his batting average is the only stat that is really down. His walk rate is actually higher than Maggs, at least this season. His OBP is almost 100 points higher than his average. He has power and speed and would fit very nicely amongst the other bats in this lineup.

Ortiz may not be a #1, but he'd fit in right with Loaiza and Buehrle or just behind them, giving the rotation some much needed depth.

I am not convinced this trade would be made, but if it is, it probably includes Rauch and another Minor Leaguer for those two. You have to remember that you can't and won't get full value for a "half-season rental" like Maggs. But to get a big-time talent like Jones would be huge for the Sox. Strong defense up the middle helps win championships and Jones would give you that and much more.

As long as the Minor League player is not Reed, Borchard, Anderson or Sweeney, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on this deal.

jabrch
06-27-2004, 02:22 PM
Drew is a FA next year. If we want him, we can have him. Frankly, I have no interest. This guy is ALWAYS hurt. I'd rather have Jones than Drew.