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cheeses_h_rice
06-26-2004, 11:47 PM
Hope I'm not being too "PC" with this complaint, but surely I'm not the only one here who was at the game today who thought it was a bit weird and inappropriate (in this day and age, and all) that the Sox played a Japanese gong sound effect as Shingo came running in from the bullpen...? Guess I'm asking if there isn't ANY other sound effect that could be used to evoke a Japanese feel (similar to the hard rock they use when Konerko's up) rather than a stupid, irrelevant, ancient gong.

OurBitchinMinny
06-27-2004, 12:27 AM
Dont see the big deal at all. Too many PC people in this world.

MRKARNO
06-27-2004, 12:29 AM
I think you are being a little too PC. Who is going to be offended by it? I'm sure Shingo doesnt mind it. In fact I wouldnt be surprised if he likes it, but he completely zoned it out today I think I read in a quote.

cheeses_h_rice
06-27-2004, 12:35 AM
I think you are being a little too PC. Who is going to be offended by it? I'm sure Shingo doesnt mind it. In fact I wouldnt be surprised if he likes it, but he completely zoned it out today I think I read in a quote.
If I were a Japanese American, I would be offended by it. To me, it smacks of some variant of insensitivity/lack of understanding of Japanese culture.

What's next? "No tickee, no shirtee" when a Chinese player makes it to the bigs?

pearso66
06-27-2004, 12:39 AM
I really think you are being too PC. Until Shingo comes out and says it offends him, then who cares?

inta
06-27-2004, 12:39 AM
heh, i've actually been debating this with my girlfriend all day.

she's korean, and got really upset when we heard that at the game saturday.

i actually liked it, had that "for whom the bell tolls" feel to it... kinda like what they did for Ben Wallace in Detroit.

I guess it is a bit cheeky... but not as bad as "ole ole ole" or whatever they play for carlos lee...
a gong is a classical asian instrument... it's not like they played some "me chinese me play joke" song.

don't most players pick what they want to play? i mean that weird techno song they play for shingo after the gong bit is nothing i've ever heard the sox play... not even anything i've heard in the states.
maybe they transferred the sound bit from his japanese introductions?

pearso66
06-27-2004, 12:40 AM
I havnt heard it, but if they play a techno song after the gong, could it be possible that the gong is part of the song?

TomC727
06-27-2004, 12:43 AM
Hope I'm not being too "PC" with this complaint, but surely I'm not the only one here who was at the game today who thought it was a bit weird and inappropriate (in this day and age, and all) that the Sox played a Japanese gong sound effect as Shingo came running in from the bullpen...? Guess I'm asking if there isn't ANY other sound effect that could be used to evoke a Japanese feel (similar to the hard rock they use when Konerko's up) rather than a stupid, irrelevant, ancient gong.
According to your argument, then all latin music cannot be played for latin players. Your PC thing and everyone elses makes me want to puke. At least you said that you hope you weren't.

CWSGuy406
06-27-2004, 12:44 AM
The crowd got so pumped when Shingo was entering the game, I got the chills. You heard it on TV too, the noise level went a lot higher.

I bet it was awesome to be at the game.

cheeses_h_rice
06-27-2004, 12:48 AM
According to your argument, then all latin music cannot be played for latin players. Your PC thing and everyone elses makes me want to puke. At least you said that you hope you weren't.
Go ahead and puke, then; I could give a rat's ass.

If you can't discern any difference between MODERN Latin music being played when a Latin American player comes to the plate and a hokey "Kung Fu"-era gong effect when Shingo comes in from the pen, then there's no use in even arguing any further.

owensmouth
06-27-2004, 12:49 AM
Guess I'm asking if there isn't ANY other sound effect that could be used to evoke a Japanese feel .
How about 40,000 people standing up and yelling "Banzai!"

inta
06-27-2004, 12:51 AM
The crowd got so pumped when Shingo was entering the game, I got the chills. You heard it on TV too, the noise level went a lot higher.

I bet it was awesome to be at the game.
man, it was incredible...
i wish i had the game on tape or something so i could watch that bit over. everyone in my section of the UD was watching him warm up in the bullpen.

when they went out to remove damaso, and that gong started playing... the place went nuts.

goosebumps.

jeremyb1
06-27-2004, 12:52 AM
heh, i've actually been debating this with my girlfriend all day.

she's korean, and got really upset when we heard that at the game saturday

Case in point.

According to your argument, then all latin music cannot be played for latin players. Your PC thing and everyone elses makes me want to puke. At least you said that you hope you weren't.

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Latin music is actually performed and listened to in Latin American countries, hence the name. What knowledge do you have of a gong's place in Japanesse culture? Perhaps it has nothing to do with Japan and is a stereotypical, untrue and therefore offensive notion. Maybe it's a sacred cultural or religious practice in Japan and invoking it at a baseball game is offensive. There's clearly no comparison between Latin Music and a Gong and you clearly lack the background necessary for the proper context in which to determine it's offensiveness.

As far as being "PC" goes, how are you personally deeply hurt or offended by one person trying to be thoughtful and respect another's feelings? It would seem to me it's far better to air on that side than to err on the side of making a deeply offensive comment relating to one's race, gender, culture, etc. but god forbid someone makes you want to puke. Why am I not suprised by your insensitive comments in light of your GW in '04 signature?

SaltyPretzel
06-27-2004, 12:55 AM
The crowd got so pumped when Shingo was entering the game, I got the chills. You heard it on TV too, the noise level went a lot higher.

I bet it was awesome to be at the game.
I thought it was cool. It kind of had the AC/DC "Hells Bells" feel to it.

SEALgep
06-27-2004, 12:58 AM
Go ahead and puke, then; I could give a rat's ass.

If you can't discern any difference between MODERN Latin music being played when a Latin American player comes to the plate and a hokey "Kung Fu"-era gong effect when Shingo comes in from the pen, then there's no use in even arguing any further.What about Mr. Zero? They didn't even call him that in Japan he said. The marketing people called him and asked him if would be alright to use that, and he was fine with it. You could make a case that since the WWII Japanese planes were also known as Zeros, that we disrespectfully made a correlation with that too. The point is, is that Shingo was okay with it, and they asked him in advance. I assume they did for this as well, but if not, it doesn't appear he has a problem with it anyway. He knows it's not out of disrespect. He's loving pitching well here, and he gets into the crowd loving it too. Until he says something, I assume there is no problem. Keep in mind, Shingo has a good opportunity to be marketed well here in Chicago, and I'm sure he's aware of that. If he continues to pitch well, and sticks around a few years, he could do very well, and be happy doing it. Have you seen the guy smile from ear to ear? He's having a ball. This dong debate is worthless until Shingo himself states otherwise. GONG! It's Shingo time!

SaltyPretzel
06-27-2004, 01:06 AM
Go ahead and puke, then; I could give a rat's ass.
If you can't discern any difference between MODERN Latin music being played when a Latin American player comes to the plate and a hokey "Kung Fu"-era gong effect when Shingo comes in from the pen, then there's no use in even arguing any further.
:sopranos
"Whoze gotta problem with this gong?"

StillMissOzzie
06-27-2004, 01:10 AM
I thought it was cool. It kind of had the AC/DC "Hells Bells" feel to it.
To tell you the truth, I hadn't even noticed the gong sound because of the crowd noise getting pumped up when he came in. And as for the AC/DC song, there's already some closer who gets this song played when they come in. I wanna say Trevor Hoffmen, but I could be wrong.

SMO
:gulp:

SaltyPretzel
06-27-2004, 01:29 AM
I went to Seattle and they had "Ichiro Rolls" at the sushi stand . Is that insensitive too? How about the pizza stands at the Cell named after Tony LaRussa?

owensmouth
06-27-2004, 01:30 AM
I also don't see the point in making a huge deal out of the fact that he's Japanese.
Why not? I guarantee you the people in Japan do.

DSpivack
06-27-2004, 02:12 AM
They should ask him if he prefers anything first, then clear with him any ideas they have.

If he's fine with it, I don't have a problem.

StockdaleForVeep
06-27-2004, 02:26 AM
Wow...no one blatantly attacked my sig for shingo

Heres my stance....if shingo is offended, he will tell them to stop and they will. If he's not offended, shut up. Do not take it upon yourself to speak for a group of people or like that because you may be offended by something. Nobody knows if maybe shingo wanted this done for him, is it so hard to believe that maybe someone liked the idea of the stereotypical japanese gong?

Ive been debatin bringin out my japanese flag i had for my old ecw days of tajiri and whatnot, am i bad person for wantin to wave a japanese flag since i am polish? They jokingly made a team called the fightin whities to "incite" whites and make them feel how they felt, i loved it, run whitey run and im sure we all know our share of polish jokes. The only people who are truly offended are old women prob newly emmigrated from a foreign country who pass on their strict cultural beliefs forcing their siblings to believe anything other than their culture is wrong.

Manos has his lil "Jose" chant, should that be axed cuz it stereotyped latinos into a soccer style stereotype? How about hells bells, im roman catholic, can i protest because it makes reference to satan\hell? COMEON! Anyone who is too anal and has no life thinks way too hard finds something to offend them. Reminds me how the whole chief illiniwek debate started over 1 native american woman who was offended.

People being pc is probably a sign of the apocalypse

patbooyah
06-27-2004, 02:27 AM
If I were a Japanese American, I would be offended by it. To me, it smacks of some variant of insensitivity/lack of understanding of Japanese culture.

What's next? "No tickee, no shirtee" when a Chinese player makes it to the bigs?

to be fair? isn't shingo just japanese? not jap-am?


personally, i have no problem with the use of a gong because i dont think we should automatically assume shingo is ashamed of his japanese roots. the gong holds a very important place in japanese culture and i think it pays tribute to him and his heritage. he is from japan. its just another thing(like the ever dwindling ERA) that we love about him!

patbooyah
06-27-2004, 02:31 AM
Wow...no one blatantly attacked my sig for shingo


i support the gong, but was this taking it too far?:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1771

StockdaleForVeep
06-27-2004, 02:34 AM
i support the gong, but was this taking it too far?:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1771
I wanted to form my own club with batman, shingos shoguns and be dressed in authentic shogun attire(much like the laundry videogame comercial)

btw to yer post above, he is 100% japanese, born in hiroshima. Maybe all the background radiation mutated his arm into throwing so slow yet so well. Toxic avenger anyone?

infohawk
06-27-2004, 08:56 AM
I perceived the gong as indicating that it was "high noon." You know, the time of day when the gunslingers would meet on the main street of the town for the decisive shoot out. That seems appropriate symbolism for an end of game save confrontation. I could be mistaken, but I think that the gong sound is used in some other parks in similar situations. Lots of audio/video is similar throughout major league baseball. For instance, the player introduction video used by the Sox with the lightening and "Thunderstruck" soundtrack was used in a recent game I attended at Miller Park for the Brewers. The Sox are unique in that they introduce the players seperately.

In all seriousness, I think anymore we have become socially conditioned to be offended at perceived racial slights. Just a thought. GO SOX!!!

RedPinStripes
06-27-2004, 09:04 AM
If I were a Japanese American, I would be offended by it. To me, it smacks of some variant of insensitivity/lack of understanding of Japanese culture.

What's next? "No tickee, no shirtee" when a Chinese player makes it to the bigs?
That's why. The American part would be offended. If Shingo was offended by it, i doubt they'll ever do it again.

mmmmmbeeer
06-27-2004, 09:12 AM
http://home.comcast.net/~aidan.mcintyre/History_of_the_Gong.htm

Seems to me that the gong is intended to sway emotion, emotions that you physically feel, through sound...which is pretty much the goal of every other sound effect used at the game...it's just that the gong was a few thousand years before its time.

It took me about 1 minute to find this page. Before slinging accusations of racist intro sounds, perhaps you PC people ought to take the time it takes to write your post and instead research the subject. Sure the gong was used in the Kung-Fu film era (which were actually, believe it or not, films made my Japanese filmakers), but there's clearly a reason why they were used.

I'm glad none of you are looking out for my best interests.

hsnterprize
06-27-2004, 09:12 AM
The crowd got so pumped when Shingo was entering the game, I got the chills. You heard it on TV too, the noise level went a lot higher.

I bet it was awesome to be at the game.I was there...IT WAS AWESOME!!!!!

BTW, Shingo, through his translator, said the Sox PR department tried to get a hold of him to play the video and get his opinion about it before yesterday...he was so focused on the game situation when he came out he didn't see nor pay attention to the crowd noise. He did appreciate the response, though. He said he NEVER got an ovation like this in Japan.

Personally, I think it is a little PC to be offended about "gong" sound effect and Japanese techno music before Shingo's entrance. I haven't heard any Latinos complain about the Latin style music played in locker rooms after Cubs games. I haven't heard any white people complain about rock music before a white pitcher's entrance, nor blacks about hip-hop music before a black man's entrance. Can you imagine if a white person complained about negative stereotyping about white people in general when "Thunderstruck" plays before the first pitch? Ludicrous.

Next thing you know, someone will want to sue the Sox because their coffee's too hot.

jortafan
06-27-2004, 09:22 AM
don't most players pick what they want to play? i mean that weird techno song they play for shingo after the gong bit is nothing i've ever heard the sox play... not even anything i've heard in the states.
maybe they transferred the sound bit from his japanese introductions?
Admittedly, I thought it was odd because I would associate a gong more with Chinese imagery, rather than anything Japanese.

But it also seems that Shingo has no problem with it. The bit of music supposedly comes from the soundtrack to the movie Speed, with a gong mixed in.

Here's a link to a Daily Southtown story about the new entrance, along with Shingo's (limited) view on it.
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/271sd2.htm

idseer
06-27-2004, 09:27 AM
What about Mr. Zero? They didn't even call him that in Japan he said. The marketing people called him and asked him if would be alright to use that, and he was fine with it. seal, i remember having this discussion with someone not long ago. i checked out about 6 websites including a japanese baseball site and as far as i can determine they certainly DID call him mr. zero in japan. the only thing is they said it in japanese.

of the following sites the first one in particular (written in 1998) suggests he was being called that prior to him coming to the states.

http://www.baywell.ne.jp/users/drlatham/baseball/yakult/players/bullpen/takatsu.htm (hit cancel when the box asks you to download japanese characters)
"Nicknamed "Mr. Zero" because he has never surrendered an earned run in Japan Series play, Shingo Takatsu has been the Swallows most consistent closer for the last five years. "

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1748573
"TUCSON, Ariz. -- Shingo Takatsu came to the United States this offseason carrying the nickname "Mr. Zero.""

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2004/05/04/sports/pro_sports/75e1551f3b3b87ac86256e8a00008208.txt
""Mr. Zero," as he is known in his native country, showed how he became Japan's all-time saves leader during the Sox's recent 12-game homestand"

if i heard the words from his own mouth he had no such nickname there then i'll believe it. till then, i believe he had the nick before getting here.


as for the gong thing. i really think it's much ado about nothing. shingo is from hiroshima, right? now if the jumbotron showed an atomic bomb going off when he entered ... THAT would be in bad taste.

if it offends him he'll tell someone or someone on his behalf will. has anyone asked japanese folk what they think of it? are there any japanese posting here?

Tmar281
06-27-2004, 09:48 AM
''There was no nickname in Japan,'' Takatsu said. ''That happened when I got here to the States.''

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-shingo21.html

SEALgep
06-27-2004, 09:54 AM
What about other asians who hear it, it doesn't matter if they're offended? The gong sound is a historical stereotype used in movies and such to go along w/ the asian character w/ two long front teeth and a straw hat, an image that goes back to WWII anti-Japanese propaganda, where Japanese were portrayed in comic books as rat/human hybrids. It's offensive in the same sense as a person in black face is offensive to black people.You're never going to please everyone, but the fact remains that if Shingo is okay with it, what is there to be mad at. As someone pointed out, it is possible that is what he entered to in Japan. Do you know? We have a lot of wussy PC about everything people out there, and I just assume discount their opinion. Don't you think Cubs fans were offended by our commercial? Race, team, whatever, it's stupid. It's a GONG, is it really that big of a deal. It's not like the Sox are trying to demean Shingo, it's meant to market him. I'm sure he has no problem with that, and it may even pump him up.

SEALgep
06-27-2004, 09:56 AM
seal, i remember having this discussion with someone not long ago. i checked out about 6 websites including a japanese baseball site and as far as i can determine they certainly DID call him mr. zero in japan. the only thing is they said it in japanese.

of the following sites the first one in particular (written in 1998) suggests he was being called that prior to him coming to the states.

http://www.baywell.ne.jp/users/drlatham/baseball/yakult/players/bullpen/takatsu.htm (hit cancel when the box asks you to download japanese characters)
"Nicknamed "Mr. Zero" because he has never surrendered an earned run in Japan Series play, Shingo Takatsu has been the Swallows most consistent closer for the last five years. "

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1748573
"TUCSON, Ariz. -- Shingo Takatsu came to the United States this offseason carrying the nickname "Mr. Zero.""

http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2004/05/04/sports/pro_sports/75e1551f3b3b87ac86256e8a00008208.txt
""Mr. Zero," as he is known in his native country, showed how he became Japan's all-time saves leader during the Sox's recent 12-game homestand"

if i heard the words from his own mouth he had no such nickname there then i'll believe it. till then, i believe he had the nick before getting here.


as for the gong thing. i really think it's much ado about nothing. shingo is from hiroshima, right? now if the jumbotron showed an atomic bomb going off when he entered ... THAT would be in bad taste.

if it offends him he'll tell someone or someone on his behalf will. has anyone asked japanese folk what they think of it? are there any japanese posting here?LOL, I believe you about the Mr. Zero thing, the media has been giving both stories, but I'm sure they did. Atomic bomb, that was a hilarious analogy of what not to do.:D: Except of course if he turns Koch on us.:o: Just kidding.

woodenleg
06-27-2004, 09:59 AM
Personally, I think it is a little PC to be offended about "gong" sound effect and Japanese techno music before Shingo's entrance. I haven't heard any Latinos complain about the Latin style music played in locker rooms after Cubs games. I haven't heard any white people complain about rock music before a white pitcher's entrance, nor blacks about hip-hop music before a black man's entrance. Can you imagine if a white person complained about negative stereotyping about white people in general when "Thunderstruck" plays before the first pitch? Ludicrous.

It's not about being 'PC'. It's about taking the time to portray someone's culture accurately instead of relying on Western-generated stereotypes.

I think you're completely misunderstanding people's reservations. No one was objecting to the use of contemporary music. Western art forms have used the gong sound as a stand in for some kind of 'Asian-ness'. It's kind of an ignorant misunderstanding of people's culture. The use of hip-hop, salsa or rock is not a misrepresentation. Besides, Americans are generally much more familiar with these types of music than they are with traditional Asian music.

If, as someone pointed out, it was part of the song that was played, then ok. But I can understand why people would question the use of the gong, given the history of how the gong has been used.

People should look on google at some Asian and Asian-American boards - you will see complaints about the 'gong' motif. The gong thing is very cartoonish and 'Charlie Chan'.

Yorke97
06-27-2004, 10:01 AM
I think I might begin to be concerned if they had a Charlie Chan sketch, but a gong is harmless. It's like the gong show for the batters and Shingo is the host.

idseer
06-27-2004, 10:01 AM
''There was no nickname in Japan,'' Takatsu said. ''That happened when I got here to the States.''

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-shingo21.html
then please explain why he's refered to as 'mr. zero' in a 1998 article.

idseer
06-27-2004, 10:08 AM
It's not about being 'PC'. It's about taking the time to portray someone's culture accurately instead of relying on Western-generated stereotypes.

I think you're completely misunderstanding people's reservations. No one was objecting to the use of contemporary music. Western art forms have used the gong sound as a stand in for some kind of 'Asian-ness'. It's kind of an ignorant misunderstanding of people's culture. The use of hip-hop, salsa or rock is not a misrepresentation. Besides, Americans are generally much more familiar with these types of music than they are with traditional Asian music.

If, as someone pointed out, it was part of the song that was played, then ok. But I can understand why people would question the use of the gong, given the history of how the gong has been used.

People should look on google at some Asian and Asian-American boards - you will see complaints about the 'gong' motif. The gong thing is very cartoonish and 'Charlie Chan'.
the 'gong' has been a part of japanese culture for hundreds of years. there is nothing 'chalie chanish' about it at all.

http://www.csuchico.edu/upe/03-04EducationalMaterials/wadaikoYamatoEduMaterial.pdf

Tmar281
06-27-2004, 10:09 AM
then please explain why he's refered to as 'mr. zero' in a 1998 article.
i dont know he said he wasn't but maybe he just never heard anyone call him that. i just remembered reading that article so i posted it

woodenleg
06-27-2004, 10:12 AM
the 'gong' has been a part of japanese culture for hundreds of years. there is nothing 'chalie chanish' about it at all.

http://www.csuchico.edu/upe/03-04EducationalMaterials/wadaikoYamatoEduMaterial.pdf

It's about the -context-, and about how 'Western' people have misused it.

MRKARNO
06-27-2004, 10:22 AM
then please explain why he's refered to as 'mr. zero' in a 1998 article.
Maybe it wasn't a major nickname for him and he was unaware of it and some AP writer found out about it and included it when he was writing the AP article, thus leading to everyone in America finding out about it.

idseer
06-27-2004, 10:22 AM
It's about the -context-, and about how 'Western' people have misused it.
well, i disagree. it's a traditional japanese sound and it only makes sense that when you want to give a japanese 'flavor' to something, a gong fills the bill ... or that little plucked guitar-like instrument (sorry i don't know what it's called). there is no condescension in that. it's as much a cultural indicator as is a sombrero to mexico, a lei to hawaii etc.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2004, 10:25 AM
Personally I'm just glad we have a closer worthy of some "gong" sounds. :smile:

To my knowledge every Sox ballplayer gets to choose his entrance music. If Shingo gets fired up by the roar of applause he receives entering a game, hell we ought to start "gonging" more of our ballplayers.

:thumbsup:

HomeFish
06-27-2004, 10:27 AM
Hey, it could be worse. His nickname could have been "Mothra". Just imagine what they'd play for that....

havelj
06-27-2004, 10:27 AM
I was 7 rows behind the Sox dugout and that grand entrance, music, video show and gong was something I've never experienced at a baseball game and thought it was OUTSTANDING! Let's embrace it - we've finally got a player with a buzz about in this town and we should enjoy it. Also - they played 2 songs after the game - the second was "Sweet Home Chicago" and after the song finished playing after that last horn blow - they played the gong - perfect ending!

idseer
06-27-2004, 10:28 AM
Personally I'm just glad we have a closer worthy of some "gong" sounds. :smile:

To my knowledge every Sox ballplayer gets to choose his entrance music. If Shingo gets fired up by the roar of applause he receives entering a game, hell we ought to start "gonging" more of our ballplayers.

:thumbsup:
i agree some of our players should be gonged ... but i'm thinking more along the lines of chuck berris's gong! :duck:

idseer
06-27-2004, 10:31 AM
Was it condescending when the gong was used in 'Sixteen Candles' whenever Long Duc Dong made an appearance?
apples and oranges. just because they used a legitimate instrument in an outrageous scene doesn't mean all uses of the gong should be laughed at.
i refuse to let hollywood dictate my thought process.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2004, 10:31 AM
Was it condescending when the gong was used in 'Sixteen Candles' whenever Long Duc Dong made an appearance?
No. The name (and character) Long Duc Dong was condescending.

:kukoo:

Look... this is rapidly spinning out of control. If you can't keep this thread on-topic, some of you will find your posts in the Roadhouse. We're talking about entrance music for a Japanese closer.

Carry on.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2004, 10:34 AM
Hey, it could be worse. His nickname could have been "Mothra". Just imagine what they'd play for that....That's interesting. If Shingo requested "Godzilla" by Blue Oyster Cult, would that be offensive to some people, too? I guess so, right?
:?:

Daver
06-27-2004, 10:37 AM
That's interesting. If Shingo requested "Godzilla" by Blue Oyster Cult, would that be offensive to some people, too?
:?:
I'd be offended.

I can't stand BOC.


:redneck

HomeFish
06-27-2004, 10:38 AM
Well, "Godzilla" is already taken by another Japanese player, who has a double off Shingo in the Major Leagues. The next most prestigious monster is Mothra, although, to a Godzilla purist like myself, its really Rodan. Mothra is more popular among the unwashed masses, though.

jabrch
06-27-2004, 10:43 AM
Might be redundant, but I haven't read the entire thread yet.

If Jose - Jose - Jose - Jose is ok, the Dong sound must be OK. Here's the thing. If it offends SHINGO - then it's a problem. Obviously it doesn't. This is not along the lines of Tawny Kitaen and Chuck Finley. This is not meant to be a jab or an insult. I don't see it the way you do Cheeses.

If they played jewish folk music when Shawn Green came in, it wouldn't bother me - and I am jewish.

If they played a polka when Luzinski came in, it wouldn't bother me - and I am polish.

Jose - Jose - Jose - Jose bothers none of my hispanic friends.

And none of my asian friends have yet mentioned (not that it is a big topic of discussion) their dislike for the SHINGO-DONG.

You may be a bit too PC here.

harwar
06-27-2004, 10:44 AM
I spent several weeks in shimoneseki,japan and i remember that the Japanese truely love baseball,and at that time really liked all things American.
If you ever went to a game in Japan you would be surprised by all the horns and gongs and wooden noisemakers that they use.Believe me they probably love the attention that Mr.Zero is getting.
In fact lost in all the hoopla is the fact that Shingo came in a very high pressure situtation and calmly went about his work like the true professional he is.

voodoochile
06-27-2004, 10:46 AM
The only opinion that matters is Shingo's, IMO. If Shingo likes it, it stays. If not, it should go.

The rest is merely argument for the sake of argument...

MRKARNO
06-27-2004, 10:52 AM
The only opinion that matters is Shingo's, IMO. If Shingo likes it, it stays. If not, it should go.

The rest is merely argument for the sake of argument... Exactly. If Shingo doesnt care, then you shouldnt care for him. It's like those picketers outside the Treasure Island grocery stores and the Potash Supermarkets. The workers dont want to go on strike, so why are you picketing in their name?

Maybe that was a potentially inflaming analogy, but I'll run with it anyways. I'm not anti-Union.

Nick@Nite
06-27-2004, 11:49 AM
At least they're not playing "Kung Fu Fighting".

If it were me, and they played "Zorba the Greek" everytime I trotted out to the mound, I'd be laughing my ass off... all the way to the bank.

Too me, it's up to Shingo whether or not "the gong" is appropriate, imo.

doublem23
06-27-2004, 11:53 AM
Too me, it's up to Shingo whether or not "the gong" is appropriate, imo.
Why? Don't the Sox have to think about not pissing off their paying customers?

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2004, 12:00 PM
Why? Don't the Sox have to think about not pissing off their paying customers?
I'm waiting to hear a quote from Shingo clarifying his opinion on this matter. As for pissing off the paying customers, the roars of support he received yesterday would indicate precisely the opposite of your stated concern.

Nick@Nite
06-27-2004, 12:10 PM
Why? Don't the Sox have to think about not pissing off their paying customers?Yeah they do need to think that. However, it was stated earlier that Shingo was asked if he had a problem with the gong, and he said no, iirc from an earlier post.

Doesn't the marketing department get paid to figure out if something pisses off the paying customer? I'm not on that payroll.

Jerry_Manuel
06-27-2004, 12:18 PM
I'm waiting to hear a quote from Shingo clarifying his opinion on this matter.
This little bit was in the SouthTown today.

"When you hear the gong, you know it's Shingo time," Sox director of marketing Brooks Boyer said.


As Takatsu jogged in from the bullpen, the Sox showed a video of his pitching highlights set to music with a gong sounding in the background. Along the bottom of the video screen was "Mr. Zero" written in Japanese, a nickname Takatsu was supposedly given because of his run of scoreless appearances in Japanese League championship series action.

"Shingo's been pitching pretty darn good for us," Boyer said. "Knowing that he's going into the closer-by-committee role, it seemed natural to ask the question what they did in Japan when he came onto the field.

"Through his interpreter, he told us that he likes this song from the movie 'Speed,' so we took that and a gong, and the guys upstairs put together a video to go with it." "Right now, I'm just trying to do my best and work hard," Takatsu said through an interpreter. "I haven't had time to analyze myself. When I came in, I didn't have time to see (the video), but it seemed as though the fans enjoyed it."

StockdaleForVeep
06-27-2004, 12:29 PM
Might be redundant, but I haven't read the entire thread yet.

If Jose - Jose - Jose - Jose is ok, the Dong sound must be OK. Here's the thing. If it offends SHINGO - then it's a problem. Obviously it doesn't. This is not along the lines of Tawny Kitaen and Chuck Finley. This is not meant to be a jab or an insult. I don't see it the way you do Cheeses.

If they played jewish folk music when Shawn Green came in, it wouldn't bother me - and I am jewish.

If they played a polka when Luzinski came in, it wouldn't bother me - and I am polish.

Jose - Jose - Jose - Jose bothers none of my hispanic friends.

And none of my asian friends have yet mentioned (not that it is a big topic of discussion) their dislike for the SHINGO-DONG.

You may be a bit too PC here.

Polka would offend me, and i am polish..lol

whats worse is i cant even tell the difference between polish and mexican music as i walk thru my neighborhood, all sounds vaguely the same to me.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2004, 12:30 PM
This little bit was in the SouthTown today.LOL! It sounds like Mr. Takatsu is a bit confused over what the controversy might be to cause a thread like this.

Imagine that... a Japanese ballplayer who can't understand the American obsession over being politically correct. Truly there is a cultural difference, and *none* of us are in a position to say which one is better.

Now I'm waiting for someone to say they *do* know which one is better... and then it's off to the Roadhouse.

Thanks for the quote, Jerry.
:thumbsup:

hsnterprize
06-27-2004, 12:53 PM
I'm waiting to hear a quote from Shingo clarifying his opinion on this matter. As for pissing off the paying customers, the roars of support he received yesterday would indicate precisely the opposite of your stated concern. Shingo said through his translator yesterday the Sox marketing department tried to approach him about the entrance video, but couldn't reach him. Shingo says he's never received an ovation like he did yesterday, and he appreciates the fan support. He says the "fans like it" so it appears like he has no problem with it.

So I guess other than Shingo himself saying he eithe rloves it or hates it, I think he's fine with the idea. Personally, I thought it was AWESOME...another feather in the cap for Brooks...as long as Shingo keeps up his pace.

TomC727
06-27-2004, 04:29 PM
:threadsucks

I cannot believe that we are having a discussion concerning if it is PC or not to play a gong sound followed by techno music when the Sox JAPANESE closer is coming into the game. I was there Saturday. This PC thing is a bunch of crap.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2004, 04:33 PM
I cannot believe that we are having a discussion concerning if it is PC or not to play a gong sound followed by techno music when the Sox JAPANESE closer is coming into the game. I was there Saturday. This PC thing is a bunch of crap.
We're not. If you want to have that discussion, go to the Roadhouse. A thread is already started.

Personally I would advise against it. It's not a board known for deep thoughts or bringing out the best in people.

doublem23
06-27-2004, 04:41 PM
I'm waiting to hear a quote from Shingo clarifying his opinion on this matter. As for pissing off the paying customers, the roars of support he received yesterday would indicate precisely the opposite of your stated concern.
That's fine. I was more just playing devil's advocate. I was at the game on Tuesday and Shingo came in for two innings of relief and I don't remember any gong sounding.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2004, 04:46 PM
That's fine. I was more just playing devil's advocate. I was at the game on Tuesday and Shingo came in for two innings of relief and I don't remember any gong sounding.
Like I said earlier, M2, I'm just glad we have a closer the fans are excited to support.
:cool:

:bkoch:
"Hey now!"

TomC727
06-27-2004, 04:47 PM
We're not. If you want to have that discussion, go to the Roadhouse. A thread is already started.

Personally I would advise against it. It's not a board known for deep thoughts or bringing out the best in people.
Thanks, I was unaware of that. And I think I will take your advise.