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View Full Version : Should KW hold off on trades?


balboner
06-25-2004, 07:18 PM
With there being a distinct possibility that the Sox could be 6 or 7 games out of first after the next few weeks, I'm beginning to think that Kenny Williams would be better off waiting on making any big trades in which we give up prospects. Instead, there's a chance that KW should be a seller instead. With Loaiza looking like last year took a lot out of his arm, I wouldn't mind seeing him be traded if the Sox are 7 or 8 games out. And then there's Maggs. It doesn't seem like he will be back. Therefore, KW really should trade him if the Sox aren't going to go all out for the pennant. He could get you 2 or 3 really good prospects.

soxtalker
06-25-2004, 07:27 PM
With there being a distinct possibility that the Sox could be 6 or 7 games out of first after the next few weeks, I'm beginning to think that Kenny Williams would be better off waiting on making any big trades in which we give up prospects. Instead, there's a chance that KW should be a seller instead. With Loaiza looking like last year took a lot out of his arm, I wouldn't mind seeing him be traded if the Sox are 7 or 8 games out. And then there's Maggs. It doesn't seem like he will be back. Therefore, KW really should trade him if the Sox aren't going to go all out for the pennant. He could get you 2 or 3 really good prospects.
You are probably going to be shouted down, as this won't sit well with most diehard Sox fans. However, you raise a good point that KW is in a tough position. If he gives away a significant fraction of the small number of prospects we have, he runs a big risk that we could fall out of it anyway. We seem to be finding more holes as the days go by. In the end, though, it doesn't fit KW's personality to throw in the towel this early. He'll work some trades to bring players here before the deadline.

mmmmmbeeer
06-25-2004, 07:32 PM
If he can't make the necessary deals within the next 4-5 days he might as well start selling. We've got a tough couple weeks ahead of us and could be well over 5 games out by the ASB if we don't plug some holes before that stretch. I think that we've got a core that could win this division, especially with our 2nd half schedule, but that core alone won't get us past the next 3-4 weeks.

joeynach
06-25-2004, 07:35 PM
If he can't make the necessary deals within the next 4-5 days he might as well start selling. We've got a tough couple weeks ahead of us and could be well over 5 games out by the ASB if we don't plug some holes before that stretch. I think that we've got a core that could win this division, especially with our 2nd half schedule, but that core alone won't get us past the next 3-4 weeks.
We and KW have to wait. We have a tough scchedule the next two weeks. If we can tread water by the break and be no more than 3 to 4 back we will be buyers. If we are 7 or 8 games back by the break, with maggs in the lineup then we will turn into sellers and trade away the season. Not doubt this team would benefet from an influx of talent in the minor leagues, but we also need a lot of hole fillers up here right now (not minor leaguers). We will just have to wait and see??

harwar
06-25-2004, 07:37 PM
Actually i'd be shocked if we're not at least 6 games back on july the 5th but it doesn't mean we can't catch the twins.They aren't the team they were last year.I say hold on to Maggs and get help,we can still use the money saved when he leaves to get someone.

bigdommer
06-25-2004, 07:39 PM
With there being a distinct possibility that the Sox could be 6 or 7 games out of first after the next few weeks, I'm beginning to think that Kenny Williams would be better off waiting on making any big trades in which we give up prospects. Instead, there's a chance that KW should be a seller instead. With Loaiza looking like last year took a lot out of his arm, I wouldn't mind seeing him be traded if the Sox are 7 or 8 games out. And then there's Maggs. It doesn't seem like he will be back. Therefore, KW really should trade him if the Sox aren't going to go all out for the pennant. He could get you 2 or 3 really good prospects.
I say trade Frank, fire Ozzie, and rename the Cell!

fuzzy_patters
06-25-2004, 07:42 PM
The fact that we could fall way behind is exactly the reason why we should make a trade soon. We need to make a trade so that we don't fall behind rather waiting around to see if we do. This team is not good enough to do much this year, but if we added another player or two it might be good enough. However, if KW waits until after the Twins beat up on us it will be too late, so he needs to do it now.

mmmmmbeeer
06-25-2004, 07:48 PM
We and KW have to wait. We have a tough scchedule the next two weeks. If we can tread water by the break and be no more than 3 to 4 back we will be buyers. If we are 7 or 8 games back by the break, with maggs in the lineup then we will turn into sellers and trade away the season. Not doubt this team would benefet from an influx of talent in the minor leagues, but we also need a lot of hole fillers up here right now (not minor leaguers). We will just have to wait and see??
That's my point though, this team as it stands could tread water in the 2nd half with an easy schedule. Right now, and over the last couple of weeks, we're in the heart of our schedule, it hasn't and won't get any tougher than RIGHT NOW. I don't know if you've been watching the games but it's pretty easy to tell that, with our current roster and injuries, the White Sox cannot compete with playoff caliber teams. That's all we're playing over the next 4 series, Cubs, Twins, Cubs, Angels. That's why we need the help NOW, not at the ASB when we've got a cake schedule ahead of us, NOW. If KW can't get it done prior to those 4 series, well, we're not going to tread anything but 3rd or 4th place. Schoe's out man, 15 days, that's almost that whole difficult stretch. Are you comfortable "treading 3-4 games back" with 3 major league starters (who have looked awful for the last month) ,2 unproven minor league starters, and a BP that resembles swiss cheese??? I don't. That's why KW needs to make deals in the next 4 days or just swallow his pride, tip his cap to the Twins or Indians, and become a seller.

The Cheat
06-25-2004, 07:57 PM
Standings don't tell the whole story.

Minnesota has played the 29th raked schedule so far.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi?sortColumn=sos

Last year we were 3 games out when KW made the Everett/Alomar deals.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2003-06-30
And we had fallen to 8 games back just after the ASB
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2003-07-17

habibharu
06-25-2004, 08:06 PM
With there being a distinct possibility that the Sox could be 6 or 7 games out of first after the next few weeks, I'm beginning to think that Kenny Williams would be better off waiting on making any big trades in which we give up prospects. Instead, there's a chance that KW should be a seller instead. With Loaiza looking like last year took a lot out of his arm, I wouldn't mind seeing him be traded if the Sox are 7 or 8 games out. And then there's Maggs. It doesn't seem like he will be back. Therefore, KW really should trade him if the Sox aren't going to go all out for the pennant. He could get you 2 or 3 really good prospects. YESSSS!!!! COMPLETELY AGREE!!!!!!!!

SoxxoS
06-25-2004, 08:56 PM
Standings don't tell the whole story.

Minnesota has played the 29th raked schedule so far.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi?sortColumn=sos

Last year we were 3 games out when KW made the Everett/Alomar deals.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2003-06-30
And we had fallen to 8 games back just after the ASB
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2003-07-17
Not to mention we have a lot of games left with Minne-sotalucky Twins.

Also, KW is not a seller. He is a glass full guy that wants to win now.

munchman33
06-25-2004, 08:59 PM
I say go for it now. Make the necessary deals. If we fall out of it, then we can always restock. And prices are higher the closer you get to the deadline.

cornball
06-25-2004, 09:08 PM
I say go for it now. Make the necessary deals. If we fall out of it, then we can always restock. And prices are higher the closer you get to the deadline.
I agree with this. You play for this year and worry about next year....next year. Prospects are just that prospects, if KW can make a deal that makes sense do it yesterday, if not dont. There has to be a time when you say lets try to win it. This division is weak.

MRKARNO
06-25-2004, 09:10 PM
Before the season started I identified June as being the hardest month of the season, so it comes as no surprise that we are scuffling now. I still think we can come out of this month 2-3 games out of first, if not closer with relative ease. We get 3 against the Twins and I think that this is really the key series to the season from here on out. If a series win for us would be big, especially heading into Wrigley. A series loss would be big too, considering how we embarassed them last time. It's going to be an interesting because with 5 against the Cubs, 3 at minny and 3 at home against Anaheim, the next 11 games can begin to define our season. I think as long as we're not 5 out, then we're in decent shape, but 5 games is the worry point for me.

Cellview22
06-25-2004, 09:44 PM
This might have already been mentioned here, but KW might be interested in aquiring Russ Ortiz from the Braves:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20040625&content_id=780129&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

Edit: nevermind, I should've looked closer. There's another thread on this.

pearso66
06-25-2004, 09:54 PM
YESSSS!!!! COMPLETELY AGREE!!!!!!!!

Weren't you the guy who was calling for KW's head because he hadnt made any trades yet, and now you want to hold off? can you pick a side?

Mohoney
06-25-2004, 10:12 PM
I'm not convinced on anything regarding Rauch's abilities after only one start, and I really want us to go get a solid starter, but what I want to know is, what makes Jon Garland's job so secure? This guy isn't showing any improvement from one season to the next. I'm starting to think that a record hovering around .500 with an ERA in the mid 4s is all we will ever get from this guy. I know he started young and was rushed to the majors before he was ready, but he's had almost 700 innings at the major league level to prove himself, or at the very least show steady improvement, and he hasn't done either of these things.

How about we give Rauch and Garland until the All Star break to prove that they both belong in our rotation. The winner stays as our 5th man, and the loser goes in the bullpen, where we desperately need help anyway.

Of course, with Schoenweis on the shelf, we need both right now anyway.

ma-gaga
06-26-2004, 09:39 AM
Before the season started I identified June as being the hardest month of the season, so it comes as no surprise that we are scuffling now. I still think we can come out of this month 2-3 games out of first, if not closer with relative ease.
...
I think as long as we're not 5 out, then we're in decent shape, but 5 games is the worry point for me.
It's too early to worry. My magic number is 5 games out AS OF AUGUST 1. Then worry.

:gulp:

The Critic
06-26-2004, 09:49 AM
Add me to the "do it now" group.
I'd rather make a move now and try to stay close than sell off if the current team can't stay close.
For all the reasons listed earlier ( Minny's light schedule so far, Sox' light schedule later this year, lots of head-to-head with them, etc ), it's much too soon to throw in the towel, IMO.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-26-2004, 09:53 AM
It's too early to worry. My magic number is 5 games out AS OF AUGUST 1. Then worry.

That's conservative. A good team can make up being 5 out even as late as Labor Day. Unfortunately our Sox have way too many holes to hope for that kind of late charge to the pennant.

Anytime we drop more than 3 back makes me nervous with this bunch, starting 4th of July. :smile:

SoxxoS
06-26-2004, 10:24 AM
That's conservative. A good team can make up being 5 out even as late as Labor Day. Unfortunately our Sox have way too many holes to hope for that kind of late charge to the pennant.

Anytime we drop more than 3 back makes me nervous with this bunch, starting 4th of July. :smile:
Not when we play Detroit for 18 and K.C. for 10 more. That is 28 games (with Ozzie, not Ghandi) that we have got to plan to go 18-10.

Minnesota has played the 2nd to worst (best) schedule.

hose
06-26-2004, 10:38 AM
The Sox have quite a few holes to fill in the bullpen and the starting staff.

Billy Koch's failure really destroyed the bullpen. If Koch could have solidified the closer role Marte and Shingo would have been a great trio. As it stands the pen is shaky at best with only Shingo and Marte are dependable.

So not only do the Sox need a starter but they also need a solid reliever and hope that Shingo can close.

Add Russ Ortiz and some bullpen help and the Sox could be pretty potent. This, assuming that Buehrle and Loiaza snap out of their funk and Maggs comes back strong.

It gets a little old with KW trying to patch up the line up with rent-a-players for prospects.