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View Full Version : Tonights Loss.....everything so clear


joeynach
06-23-2004, 10:39 PM
Tonights loss and our subsuquent slide into mediocricy epidimizes the problems with this organazation. Our slump and pitching problems stem from a great threat to this franchise. Tonight was not all Ozzie's fault or Buehrle's fault either. It stems from managment and what happened last year. KW made some great moves last year for us make our run. Most important Gordon and Sullivan were added. Yes we did have to give up some young talent, but that the price you pay for proven guys. BUt what you dont expect is what happened in the offseason. Those two guys which solidied our pen were let go along with everyone else because of JR's 58 mil handicap. Leaving KW to look the fool as all he could afford was Cliff "no movement fastball" politte, mike "washed up" jackson and a call up of unproven arms from the minors. Well it has caught up with us as letting those guys go really has bitten us back Mr. Reinsdorf. Are usual solid starters are now feeling the pressure as we have slumped. With no confidence in our pen since all we have is crap arms our starters are demanding to much of themselves as is Ozzie. Everytime we are crusing and then up a couple hits, or walks, or runs its like the starter has to try and be perfect from then on out becuase lord knows we dont want the pen in the game. Nevertheless that always leads to trouble. And ozzie doesn't trust the pen thats why Buehrle was left in in the 8th tonight. Its all a ripple effect from here. The guys we have or dont have changes the mentallity of our pitchers and also changes the decision making process of the manager. Becuase Ozzie as do I trust more in a late inning proven starter then the reliver whose job it should be. I would much rather have buehrle pitch in the 8th then cotts/politte/jackonson, or before Koch. Unfortunatly the indians called us out tagging Mark in the 8th forcing ozzie to make the dreadul move, but it was too late. This thing will continue to happen as long as the ones in charge make the same mistakes they have been over the last 22 years. Some people complain sox fans always blame ownership for everything the players do wrong on the field. Well i say the reason we blame ownership is becuase they put the wrong players for the job on the field becuase of there self imposed financial constraints. And that leads to losses. I seriously am starting to beleive in the failure of ownership here over anything else, is tonight not proof enough sox fans??

infohawk
06-23-2004, 11:02 PM
Joeynach, I share your frustration about our recent losing ways. I don't believe that we should jump to any conclusions yet, though. Let's see what Kenny does to fix our pitching issues. If the right deals are there, I have no doubt that he will make them. In the meantime, we are still in the first half of the season and only two games back despite our recent poor pitching. The offense has been a bright spot and shown enough consistency to be dangerous. The defense is good enough to win. If Kenny makes some moves and our pitching situation doesn't improve, then I think we hit the panic button on this season. I kind of adhere to the Billy Beane philosophy of a baseball season where he says that the first two months of the season you evaluate what you have, the second two months you determine what you need, and the final two months you charge hard for the playoffs. We still have time. Last year at this point we were way, way, way back and still managed to almost take the division. Let's just wait to see what Kenny does. We will have plenty of opportunities to panic if his moves don't work out!

joeynach
06-23-2004, 11:07 PM
Joeynach, I share your frustration about our recent losing ways. I don't believe that we should jump to any conclusions yet, though. Let's see what Kenny does to fix our pitching issues. If the right deals are there, I have no doubt that he will make them. In the meantime, we are still in the first half of the season and only two games back despite our recent poor pitching. The offense has been a bright spot and shown enough consistency to be dangerous. The defense is good enough to win. If Kenny makes some moves and our pitching situation doesn't improve, then I think we hit the panic button on this season. I kind of adhere to the Billy Beane philosophy of a baseball season where he says that the first two months of the season you evaluate what you have, the second two months you determine what you need, and the final two months you charge hard for the playoffs. We still have time. Last year at this point we were way, way, way back and still managed to almost take the division. Let's just wait to see what Kenny does. We will have plenty of opportunities to panic if his moves don't work out!
Thats a nice thought but the reality is even if KW does make some moves and add to this staff then what. Thats a gamble on this year and this year only, at least according to JR and company. They trade away our future players for a current run, thats fine make it or not. Id like to see some investment in what could be right now. But only if you maintain that effort all along and sign the guys you traded your talent away for. Which i haven't seem from this ownership yet.

Kilroy
06-23-2004, 11:17 PM
Tonights loss and our subsuquent slide into mediocricy epidimizes the problems with this organazation. Dude, don't try and blame what happened tonight on the arms in the pen, or upper management. Ozzie has not given the pitchers the best chance to succeed lately. Buehrle should have come out tonight after giving up back to back singles, at least giving whoever came in some breathing room. No, he lets Buehrle load the bases. Margin for error = 0. Garland should not have come out for the 9th Sunday, and he left Munoz twisting in the wind on Saturday while he gave up 9 runs in the 2nd. That's almost inhumane. And, Ozzie got lucky w/ Shingo last night. He was clearly gassed, but managed to tough it out. Its not that Ozzie doesn't trust the pen, its that his philosophy is that the starters are going to get the chance to work themselves out of problems, and the hook won't be coming as quickly. If he didn't trust the pen, then Buehrle pitches to Broussard. But after letting Buehrle load the bases, he may as well have left him in there. It was his mess.

I'll agree with you that the Sox needed to keep Gordon, but Sullivan appeared in 14.1 innings, and he didn't solidify **** for the Sox.

infohawk
06-23-2004, 11:18 PM
I hear what your saying. As fans I guess we just have to take it one season at a time. It's difficult to respond to a prognostication about what would happen next year if we traded away lots of talent and perhaps made it to the playoffs this year. I don't really know what JR would do with the acquired talent the following year if, say, the team played deep into the playoffs and made either the ALCS or World Series. The reason I don't know for sure is because that situation hasn't happened in such a long time. Putting together a championship-caliber baseball team is really just a calculated roll of the dice. Let's just wait and see what happens. Seriously, if the Sox fail to make the playoffs I will be one of the steadiest posters during the offseason fretting about what went wrong!

dlineguy
06-23-2004, 11:20 PM
Good posts, take a good look at the standings. This is the pinnacle of success for the White Sox this season and until ownership/GM changes are made we will NEEVVVEEERRR be real winners. Even when the team did make the playoffs, they made fools of us.
Time to root for the teams that go the extra mile to win and that is not the white sox, in lower case.
Goodbye:angry:






"I used to care, sometimes too much, but not again! I am done with this organization" Mags feels the same????

Kilroy
06-23-2004, 11:24 PM
Time to root for the teams that go the extra mile to win and that is not the white sox, in lower case.
Goodbye:angry:






"I used to care, sometimes too much, but not again! I am done with this organization" Mags feels the same????
White Sox baseball. It's not for *******. See ya.

dlineguy
06-23-2004, 11:28 PM
If being less than average is good for you then keep on spending your money. Go ahead, reinforce all that bad management behavior. By the way, go Yankees.:)

Kilroy
06-23-2004, 11:34 PM
If being less than average is good for you then keep on spending your money. Go ahead, reinforce all that bad management behavior. By the way, go Yankees.:)
If cheering for the team you think will be a winner is good for you, then by all means, go be a front-runner on the fan site of whichever team you decide to cheer, until they aren't looking like a winner.

Don't come sniffing back around here in a couple of months when the White Sox are bringing the division home. You've shown your true colors, and they're not silver and black.

dlineguy
06-23-2004, 11:38 PM
Come on, being serious. How can you trick yourself into believing this is a playoff team? You must work at the ballpark or something. Alot of surprising things must happen in your everyday life.

Kilroy
06-23-2004, 11:40 PM
Come on, being serious. How can you trick yourself into believing this is a playoff team? You must work at the ballpark or something. Alot of surprising things must happen in your everyday life.
I thought you posted your last post here in another thread.

Get going already!

IA_soxfan
06-23-2004, 11:49 PM
Come on, being serious. How can you trick yourself into believing this is a playoff team? You must work at the ballpark or something. Alot of surprising things must happen in your everyday life.
:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:

(I've been waiting to use that guy! :redneck )

FarWestChicago
06-24-2004, 12:02 AM
If cheering for the team you think will be a winner is good for you, then by all means, go be a front-runner on the fan site of whichever team you decide to cheer, until they aren't looking like a winner.

Don't come sniffing back around here in a couple of months when the White Sox are bringing the division home. You've shown your true colors, and they're not silver and black.These are his true colors:

:crossdresser

skobabe8
06-24-2004, 01:32 AM
If being less than average is good for you then keep on spending your money. Go ahead, reinforce all that bad management behavior. By the way, go Yankees.:)this guy is clueless on so many levels, and im so glad i wasnt raised with that mindset. "can't beat them? join them!" screw that. Go get some onions and be a real fan. Because thats what it takes, espeically to be a sox fan. Any moron can just jump from team to team. But if your heart is in a certain place, you're there through thick and thin. Admittedly, theres been alot more thin than thick being a sox fan, but it just makes you want it and appreciate it even more. And i wouldnt have it any other way. But I'm glad we weeded this guy out now. because someday when we do win this whole thing, he may jump back on the wagon, but he'll never feel a fraction of the joy that us diehards will.

Dineguy......HE GONE!!! :thud:

Nellie_Fox
06-24-2004, 01:38 AM
Ozzie got lucky w/ Shingo last night. He was clearly gassed, but managed to tough it out. I was thrilled to see Shingo back out there for the 10th, giving the Sox another chance. Just who did you want to see Ozzie put out there? Was there anyone who you thought could hold them for another inning? I sure couldn't think of anyone.

DSpivack
06-24-2004, 03:23 AM
this guy is clueless on so many levels, and im so glad i wasnt raised with that mindset. "can't beat them? join them!" screw that. Go get some onions and be a real fan. Because thats what it takes, espeically to be a sox fan. Any moron can just jump from team to team. But if your heart is in a certain place, you're there through thick and thin. Admittedly, theres been alot more thin than thick being a sox fan, but it just makes you want it and appreciate it even more. And i wouldnt have it any other way. But I'm glad we weeded this guy out now. because someday when we do win this whole thing, he may jump back on the wagon, but he'll never feel a fraction of the joy that us diehards will.
This reminds me of the famous Bill Veeck quote on the wsi homepage. I am a fan of the White Sox not because I want to root for a winning team all the time, nor because I think it is the cool and fashionable thing to do, nor because I want to conform, nor because I am a non-conformist. I root for the White Sox purely because that is who I am- a White Sox fan-- For better or for worse.

Bucktown
06-24-2004, 03:25 AM
Tonights loss and our subsuquent slide into mediocricy epidimizes the problems with this organazation.Spelling lesson (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=epitomizes) for the day.

joeynach
06-24-2004, 08:41 AM
Spelling lesson (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=epitomizes) for the day.
Thanks for the tip professor.

Baby Fisk
06-24-2004, 08:42 AM
If being less than average is good for you then keep on spending your money. Go ahead, reinforce all that bad management behavior. By the way, go Yankees.:)Ha, this tool is the epitome of the typical Yankee fan. Being a Yankee fan is the easiest thing in sports.

Pathetic, shallow, self-loathing, plastic, no self-esteem, bandwagoning, I-want-to-be-with-the-popular-kids, arrogant, unlikeable, jerks! Yankee fans are the biggest tools I've ever met!

joeynach
06-24-2004, 09:01 AM
Ha, this tool is the epitome of the typical Yankee fan. Being a Yankee fan is the easiest thing in sports.

Pathetic, shallow, self-loathing, plastic, no self-esteem, bandwagoning, I-want-to-be-with-the-popular-kids, arrogant, unlikeable, jerks! Yankee fans are the biggest tools I've ever met!
Sounds kind of like cub fans to me. Hey i just got to chicago well of course i'll just choose the big incumbent guy, the cubs. Becuase i dont know any better being from iowa i can't think for myself nor do i know anything about baseball, i mean im from iowa i just want to be popular here, GO CUBS!!

ma_deuce
06-24-2004, 09:07 AM
Good posts, take a good look at the standings. This is the pinnacle of success for the White Sox this season and until ownership/GM changes are made we will NEEVVVEEERRR be real winners. Even when the team did make the playoffs, they made fools of us.
Time to root for the teams that go the extra mile to win and that is not the white sox, in lower case.
Goodbye:angry:
:dtroll:

Palehose13
06-24-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally Posted by Bucktown
Spelling lesson for the day.


Sorry, but I have to go with this a little more.

Originally Posted by joeynach
Tonights loss and our subsuquent slide into mediocricy epidimizes the problems with this organazation.
subsequent
mediocrity
epitomizes
organization

IIRC, you are to write the words you spelled incorrectly 20 times. :redneck

jabrch
06-24-2004, 12:07 PM
Tonights loss and our subsuquent slide into mediocricy epidimizes the problems with this organazation.
:chickenlittle
We are 2 games out of first - and magglio has been out for almost a month, specificly a week of inter-league play that already took one bat out of our lineup in Florida and Montreal. What subsequent slide into mediocrity are you talking about?
:chickenlittle

Palehose13
06-24-2004, 12:10 PM
Good posts, take a good look at the standings. This is the pinnacle of success for the White Sox this season and until ownership/GM changes are made we will NEEVVVEEERRR be real winners. Even when the team did make the playoffs, they made fools of us.
Time to root for the teams that go the extra mile to win and that is not the white sox, in lower case.
Goodbye:angry:
"I used to care, sometimes too much, but not again! I am done with this organization" Mags feels the same????

Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
:kukoo:

Kilroy
06-24-2004, 02:11 PM
:kukoo:
I love this guy!