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beausox
09-23-2001, 03:14 PM
Sorry hate to doubt your loyalty but all this "I hate Jerry Manuel" talk is just ignorant. When Schueler pulled this guy out of nowhere and everyone was wondering who he was, I said nothing, I watched that first season, and even though the record was not good, I liked the man, he knew what he was doing. Last year he surprised everyone, who wasn't a White Sox fan, by leading the Sox to an AL central title. Yes we choked in the playoffs but that happens to every team. Its hard to judge how goood a team is in the course of a five game series. Jerry won the manager of the year award, which he very much deserved. This year we started off slow, it wasn't Jerry's fault, we just got outplayed, we ahve to admit that. Its not Jerry's fault he got stuck with two SS deserving to start. Its not Jerry's fault his 2 time MVP clean-up hitter got injured. Its not his fault management brought in an Ace pitcher who shot off his mouth while other teams shot up his ERA. Simas, Osuna, Wunsch got hurt. Managements solution bring in Embree, who has a 7.00 plus ERA.
We won't win the division this year, next year I think were the favorites. Cleveland still won't have good ptiching, all there veterans will be a year older, and they might lose Gonzalez and Lofton. Minnesota won'y duplicate there success again, much like we couldn't. We will still finish with a very solid record. We had a lot of bright momoments, and players (like Buerhle) to build on. The bottomline however is that once again JERRY MANUEL HAS DONE THE BEST JOB HE COULD AS THE MANAGER OF THE WHITE SOX.

Jerry_Manuel
09-23-2001, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by beausox
Sorry hate to doubt your loyalty but all this "I hate Jerry Manuel" talk is just ignorant.

No it's not Manuel's fault that Clayton was brought in but when he was hitting under .100 he should have been benched but he wasn't. Same thing for Juilo Ramirez he was hitting under .100 but yet he split time with Chris in center, when he should have been benched. People don't like him now because he is refusing to play Rowand and Crede right now. The season has been over for awhile now and since it is you have to play your prospects to see what they can do. Manuel did play Rowand for awhile but once he got hurt Singleton took the starting spot back. With the season winding down Rowand should be in center and Crede should be starting at 3rd.

KempersRS
09-23-2001, 03:38 PM
Sorry hate to doubt your loyalty but all this "I hate Jerry Manuel" talk is just ignorant.

Don't doubt my loyalty. Two things. First, I am poking fun at the whole subject of Manuel's recent stupidity. I am well aware of what he did with the team last year, but I'm angered with his clueless approach this year. I don't have strong feelings of "hate" for Jerry Manuel, I just think he is an idiot.

This year we started off slow, it wasn't Jerry's fault, we just got outplayed, we ahve to admit that.

Is this a horrible joke? Are you kidding me? We DID play poorly, but to place none of the blame on Manuel is way off. Manuel's "use April and May as extra spring training games" method of coaching threw us right into the rut!

Its not Jerry's fault he got stuck with two SS deserving to start. Its not Jerry's fault his 2 time MVP clean-up hitter got injured. Its not his fault management brought in an Ace pitcher who shot off his mouth while other teams shot up his ERA. Simas, Osuna, Wunsch got hurt. Managements solution bring in Embree, who has a 7.00 plus ERA.

Thats right, to some degree, but Jerry screwed up again when these situations were presented to him. He then showed us his second clueless approach to managing: "I'll do whatever I have to in order to make sure the players don't get mad at me." Upset about playing time? Not happy with your role on the team? Just whine about it to the press and Jerry will go hiding.

We won't win the division this year, next year I think were the favorites.

Yeah, I thought we were the favorites this year too, but injuries and JERRY hurt us. As I stated before, it doesn't look like Jerry is moving this team in the right direction. I'll come to my third observation of Jerry's coaching: "Do I know anything about building a good team?" Jerry, once again comes up huge by playing Herbert Perry, Jose Canseco, Jeff Liefer, Chris Singleton, and others over Aaron Rowand and Joe Crede. There is nothing to defend this! This is the state of being totally CLUELESS. Joe Crede is being swept under the rug, for Jeff Liefer!? How could anyone even consider making Jeff Liefer an everyday third baseman when Crede doesn't even get a chance, its a joke. Same deal with Rowand, I won't go into it any further.

The bottomline however is that once again JERRY MANUEL HAS DONE THE BEST JOB HE COULD AS THE MANAGER OF THE WHITE SOX.

Very true, he did the best job HE could. Someone else could have done it better.

LongDistanceFan
09-23-2001, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by beausox
why do you doubt our loyalty, b/c we do not endorse the whole sox and not be blind to their shortcomings. I still like Jm and think that i may a minority here, but i respect my fellow posters opinions. If you disagree with your family, does that mean that you hate them.......... no.......

beausox
09-23-2001, 08:36 PM
I never said I hated anyone, I just don't think everyone is getting a clear view on the subject. I like the things Ken Williams has done as our GM, he got Glover for nothing, got a lot of talent for JB (even without the right Barry), brought in Canseco, and didn't give up much to get Wells and Clayton. I do think though, that management should shoudler the blame for the disappointing season (by disappointing I mean not making the play-offs), once again they stuck Jerry with two SS, brought in Embree when we didn't need hium, etc. Nobody can be blamed for the injuries but we can't use that as an excuse either.

Now as far as playing Rowand and Crede. Rowand is a part of our future, Singleton is not, however you can't just go out and bench a guy who's hitting .300 and is the best defensive OFer on the team. Maybe a platoon would be more appropiate, but we still need to win these final games.

Crede should be our starting third basemen next year. Liefer will probably be relegated to a back-up 1B/3B/LF/RF/DH role which he will receive ample amount of playing time and a roll where he can be very effectice. I don't blame JM for wanting to see what Liefer can do. I think the real problem here is that Canseco wasn't traded. We all know Canseco won't be back next year, we could've have gotten something for him and then Liefer would have been the DH and Crede would have been at third.

idseer
09-23-2001, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by beausox
I like the things Ken Williams has done as our GM, he got Glover for nothing, got a lot of talent for JB (even without the right Barry), brought in Canseco, and didn't give up much to get Wells and Clayton. I do think though, that management should shoudler the blame for the disappointing season (by disappointing I mean not making the play-offs), once again they stuck Jerry with two SS, brought in Embree when we didn't need hium, etc.
Crede should be our starting third basemen next year. Liefer will probably be relegated to a back-up 1B/3B/LF/RF/DH role which he will receive ample amount of playing time and a roll where he can be very effectice. I don't blame JM for wanting to see what Liefer can do. I think the real problem here is that Canseco wasn't traded. We all know Canseco won't be back next year, we could've have gotten something for him and then Liefer would have been the DH and Crede would have been at third.

-a lot of talent for jb? he looked FOOLISH for that trade. what kind of homework he must have done boggles the mind.
-didn't give up much for wells? just our top pitcher and 10 million dollars! never mind sirota didn't pitch this year. they didn't know that.
-they didn't stick jerry with 2 ss's either. this team has one ss and one psuedo ss who actually has no position.
-liefer will be 1b/3b/lf/rf/dh? usually the role of utility man goes to someone who can actually PLAY those positions. liefer sucks at all of them other than dh .... and he AIN'T gonna be our dh!

what you did after suggesting how great jm & kw were was to admit all the stupid things they've done so far. call me mr. negative if you want, but this team will never be a true contender with jm as manager or kw as g.mgr.

LongDistanceFan
09-23-2001, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by beausox
I never said I hated anyone, I just don't think everyone is getting a clear view on the subject.

I never meant that you hated anybody, i was using an analogy of a family, any family. We are aware of their shortcomings is all i said. Now here is a question for you. Are you aware of the sox shortcomings or are you blind, b/c your are a die hard fan?

Idseer........ -they didn't stick jerry with 2 ss's either. this team has one ss and one pseudo ss who actually has no position...

ohhh that is funny, a pseudo ss????????? LMAO

Iwritecode
09-24-2001, 10:52 AM
I never said I hated anyone, I just don't think everyone is getting a clear view on the subject. I like the things Ken Williams has done as our GM, he got Glover for nothing, got a lot of talent for JB (even without the right Barry), brought in Canseco, and didn't give up much to get Wells and Clayton.

The Glover trade was good, though we didn't get anything for JB. Unless you want to count we got to see KW make a fool of himself because he got the wrong guy. Canseco was a pretty good move and getting Wells was basically a wash. Getting Clayton just screwed things up even more that they already were.

I do think though, that management should shoudler the blame for the disappointing season (by disappointing I mean not making the play-offs), once again they stuck Jerry with two SS, brought in Embree when we didn't need hium, etc. Nobody can be blamed for the injuries but we can't use that as an excuse either.

Actually they stuck Jerry with one SS and a magician. He gives the illusion that he has good defense. Nobody can be blamed for he injuries but they are the biggest single contribution to this crappy season.

Now as far as playing Rowand and Crede. Rowand is a part of our future, Singleton is not, however you can't just go out and bench a guy who's hitting .300 and is the best defensive OFer on the team. Maybe a platoon would be more appropiate, but we still need to win these final games.

If Rowand and Crede are part of the future then they should be playing now. It doesn't matter about individual stats anymore. The win-loss record doesn't even matter anymore. Spring training started right after the last series with Cleveland.

Crede should be our starting third basemen next year. Liefer will probably be relegated to a back-up 1B/3B/LF/RF/DH role which he will receive ample amount of playing time and a roll where he can be very effectice. I don't blame JM for wanting to see what Liefer can do. I think the real problem here is that Canseco wasn't traded. We all know Canseco won't be back next year, we could've have gotten something for him and then Liefer would have been the DH and Crede would have been at third.

I have no idea what to do with Liefer. He can hit a ton but can't play the field to save his life. If I'm not mistaken, Canseco can still be traded in the off-season. But Liefer can still be the DH and Crede can still play third for these final 12 games this year.

beausox
09-25-2001, 08:31 PM
I do think this team has got a few shortcomings don't get me wrong. We spent way too much money on a back-up catcher (alomar), brought in two RP we didn't need (Embree and Pulsipher) when a prospect could do just as good a job (Vining), and we didn't unload the veterans (Canseco, Perry, and Singelton) when we had the chance. We do have a lot of things goign our way though. A explosive Offense, quality young pitching with the potential to develop a rotation like the Braves had in the 90's, and in my opinion a manger and to a lesser extent a GM who are focused and have this team headed in the right direction.

LongDistanceFan
09-25-2001, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by beausox
I do think this team has got a few shortcomings don't get me wrong. We spent way too much money on a back-up catcher (alomar), brought in two RP we didn't need (Embree and Pulsipher) when a prospect could do just as good a job (Vining), and we didn't unload the veterans (Canseco, Perry, and Singelton) when we had the chance. We do have a lot of things goign our way though. A explosive Offense, quality young pitching with the potential to develop a rotation like the Braves had in the 90's, and in my opinion a manger and to a lesser extent a GM who are focused and have this team headed in the right direction. this was very good and i like your thought, however to the idea of prospects being used instead of trying to obtain someone. I rather keep the prospect in the minors to developed. Who would've thought that embree would be a wash. He has some great stuff, but having great stuff and using it is a different subject. Like an earlier posters said, imagine if we had a 500 first half........... we would be in a different situation.