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View Full Version : Are people disregarding matchups?


jeremyb1
06-22-2004, 03:48 PM
I know people are upset about the losing but can we try to look at the bigger perspective here? Sabathia is second in the AL in ERA and went up against Schoeneweis who had a 4.3 ERA coming into the game and admittedly played over his head in the early going. Did people honestly believe we should win that game? Now tonight Loaiza one of our top pitchers is going up against Elarton who has an ERA near 10 and was just waived by the Rockies. If we lose that's a problem but even the best teams lose 60 games so let's not expect to win every game with our fourth and fifth starters around or score 6 or 7 runs against the best pitchers in the game just because we have a good offense. You have to look at these games in context. In the Expos series the only really big blow was losing the second game and the blame there falls on Ozzie in my opinion. In the rubber match we had two pretty evenly matched pitchers going. It'd be nice to win but you can't win them all you need to win the games you're supposed to win (like tonights game, the second game of the Expos series) not the tough matchups. Just because we're losing doesn't mean every loss is unacceptable.

delben91
06-22-2004, 03:51 PM
I know people are upset about the losing but can we try to look at the bigger perspective here? Sabathia is second in the AL in ERA and went up against Schoeneweis who had a 4.3 ERA coming into the game and admittedly played over his head in the early going. Did people honestly believe we should win that game? Now tonight Loaiza one of our top pitchers is going up against Elarton who has an ERA near 10 and was just waived by the Rockies. If we lose that's a problem but even the best teams lose 60 games so let's not expect to win every game with our fourth and fifth starters around or score 6 or 7 runs against the best pitchers in the game just because we have a good offense. You have to look at these games in context. In the Expos series the only really big blow was losing the second game and the blame there falls on Ozzie in my opinion. In the rubber match we had two pretty evenly matched pitchers going. It'd be nice to win but you can't win them all you need to win the games you're supposed to win (like tonights game, the second game of the Expos series) not the tough matchups. Just because we're losing doesn't mean every loss is unacceptable.


That makes a lot of sense, and I agree with you jeremy. Should the Sox lose again tonight I don't think I'll be dropping in on WSI tomorrow...if it survives the strife that would ensue.

fledgedrallycap
06-22-2004, 03:54 PM
It won't get much better agaist the Cub, if I remember right the following should be expected:

Garland vs. Prior
Schoenwies vs. Zambrano
Loaiza vs. Maddox

Now, Prior has been relatively normal in his 3 of 4 starts; and Maddox doesn't scare me much. However, the second game could get nasty...

Frater Perdurabo
06-22-2004, 04:10 PM
I never expected this year's Sox to win 110 games, or even 100 games. But I do want them to win the division and they might need to win 90 games to do that.

We can't expect them to win every game against good pitchers, but if we want them to get to the playoffs and then win a series or two, then they must be able to beat good, if not great, pitching.

Maybe this is just another way to say that the team needs to be re-loaded on the fly. This offensive mix is not working. It hasn't been able to get to the playoffs each of the past three seasons. Even if it did, it would be another three and out in the first round, like what happened in 2000.

mdep524
06-22-2004, 04:37 PM
I know people are upset about the losing but can we try to look at the bigger perspective here? Sabathia is second in the AL in ERA and went up against Schoeneweis who had a 4.3 ERA coming into the game and admittedly played over his head in the early going. Did people honestly believe we should win that game? Now tonight Loaiza one of our top pitchers is going up against Elarton who has an ERA near 10 and was just waived by the Rockies. If we lose that's a problem but even the best teams lose 60 games so let's not expect to win every game with our fourth and fifth starters around or score 6 or 7 runs against the best pitchers in the game just because we have a good offense. You have to look at these games in context. In the Expos series the only really big blow was losing the second game and the blame there falls on Ozzie in my opinion. In the rubber match we had two pretty evenly matched pitchers going. It'd be nice to win but you can't win them all you need to win the games you're supposed to win (like tonights game, the second game of the Expos series) not the tough matchups. Just because we're losing doesn't mean every loss is unacceptable.
Sorry Jeremy, but this just sounds like excuses to me. Though I do agree that not every loss is unacceptable. If every game were just determined by match ups, how could Mark Buehrle lose to Alex Graman back in April?

Yet again I agree with Frater, the heart of the Sox offense needs to be tweaked to get a new mix.

infohawk
06-22-2004, 05:26 PM
Jeremy, I couldn't agree with you more. All games are not truly equal. On occasion a team will prevail against a starter who is significantly better than their own, but usually that has more to do with the better starter having a bad outing. I've always thought that the only way to beat a top-flight starter who is pitching well is to run up their pitch count and get them out of the game while there are still three or four innings left.

We need to win tonight's ballgame because the advantage flips our way.

jeremyb1
06-22-2004, 06:17 PM
If every game were just determined by match ups, how could Mark Buehrle lose to Alex Graman back in April?

That's my point. Those are the games that should be upsetting, not the games like last night. Now obviously if we never when a game with a matchup favoring the other club we're in a lot of trouble because there are going to be some games when our best pitchers don't have it but we've put up runs against some good pitchers this season, just not recently and missing Maggs and Frank/Paully for the NL interleague games probably have a good deal to do with that.

jeremyb1
06-22-2004, 06:18 PM
It won't get much better agaist the Cub, if I remember right the following should be expected:

I agree. We're paying big time for our Cubs rivalry since it strongly impacts our strength of schedule compared to the Twins.

ma-gaga
06-22-2004, 06:45 PM
I agree. We're paying big time for our Cubs rivalry since it strongly impacts our strength of schedule compared to the Twins.
Why? I thought the difference with the "rivalry series" is Milwaukee vs Cubs.

The Cubs at 39-30 isn't THAT much better than Milwaukee's 35-31. It's just 2.5 games. And we know that any team that is 2.5 games ahead of another is CLEARLY superior.

spanishwhite
06-22-2004, 07:34 PM
That's my point. Those are the games that should be upsetting, not the games like last night. Now obviously if we never when a game with a matchup favoring the other club we're in a lot of trouble because there are going to be some games when our best pitchers don't have it but we've put up runs against some good pitchers this season, just not recently and missing Maggs and Frank/Paully for the NL interleague games probably have a good deal to do with that.
what is upsetting is that both pitchers were getting squeezed early on and it took a hissy fit by CC to fix the umps strike zone. Indians capitalized and we didnt. it is also upsetting to see Schoeneweiss get blunders by Uribe and konerko and get pulled early(in my estimation) when he has been struggling of late. Show has to be thinking, if I were to whine to the ump, maybe I would have gotten some calls and had eight scoreless innings under my belt.

All that being said its just annoying to lose to Indians, Twins, or Cubs. Its also upsetting to listen to Rick Sutcliffe kiss Indian ass and talk down about the sox.