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View Full Version : Rumor I heard-no it's not a trade


gosox41
06-21-2004, 09:35 AM
I try not to buy into everything I hear. But I guess I am hoping this is true. Though it's not firsthand information, the person I heard it from claims it's reliable.

The rumor is that our buddy, Sammy, did not have an injured back. He supposedly was suspend 30 says from baseball for steroid use. Both sides felt it was in their best interest to keep it quiet.

It wouldn't surprise me for a couple of reasons:

1. I have no doubt Sammy uses steroids. His physique and power numbers would indicate something was up.

2. Sammy is dumb enough to keep cheating and can claim ignorance...see the cork bat incident.

3. Selig absolutely loves Sosa.

4. Sosa gave a press conference when he first came back about how hard he was working out while he was out. Is a cure all for a bad back pumping iron??

Take it for what you will. Personally, I hope it's true. But I'm willing to bet we don't hear anything about his mysterious back injury the rest of the year and that he's 100% recovered. Also, it may explain why Sosa was never at any of the Cub home games while he was injured. Can't sit in the dugout if you're suspended. Of course Sammy is selfish enough not to show up anyway. If you believe the corked bat rumors (where after Sosa was ejected he was in the clubhouse with the bat boy dumping about 75 bats and that he had 4 innings to do so even though the head of baseball security was in the ball park when the incident took place and it took him that long to get the corked bat) then this may have some plausibility.

Any chance someone in the media is sitting on the story?


Bob

SoxFan78
06-21-2004, 09:37 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if it was all a cover up, I don't think the Cubs would of sent Sammy to minor league re-hab. Just my opnion.

Frater Perdurabo
06-21-2004, 09:41 AM
The conspiracy theorist in me wants to believe it.

OTOH, I haven't seen a post or a media thread from Hangar in a while. Hangar, where are you?

gosox41
06-21-2004, 09:41 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if it was all a cover up, I don't think the Cubs would of sent Sammy to minor league re-hab. Just my opnion.
It's possible. But he would need to get his timing back. He did miss 30 days which is a long time anyway you look at it.


Bob

Gammons Peter
06-21-2004, 09:46 AM
Everyone should bombard the local talk shows with this question

Blob
06-21-2004, 09:53 AM
I want to believe this as well but have no reasons too.

bennyw41
06-21-2004, 09:55 AM
Aren't part of suspensions to publicly display to the league that something won't be tolerated? I would love to believe it, but I think its a little far fetched, I mean, they could of found a better excuse than sneezing.

Jerome
06-21-2004, 10:03 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if it was all a cover up, I don't think the Cubs would of sent Sammy to minor league re-hab. Just my opnion.


Remember last year, after the cork bat/toenail surgery, he didn't take rehab assignment. I think Sosa taking a rehab assignment is an excellent job by the Cubs of adding to the coverup and making sure everything goes smoothly. Besides, it gave the media another chance to lick Dusty Baker's Butt about "how Dusty convinced Sammy to take a minor leauge assignment for the good of the team."

mendozaln
06-21-2004, 10:11 AM
This is not plausible. Under the current agreement, you'd have to get caught 3 or 4 times (at least) to get that long a suspension. There's no way that's happened all in one season. Also, just to be clear, you are suggesting that this is a conspiracy all the way up, that even MLB doesn't acknowledge this internally as a suspension, right? Because players are allowed injury rehab assignments to the minors, but I don't think they're allowed suspension rehabs. So Selig would have to be conspiring in allowing the Cubs to blatantly flout the rules regarding rehab. That's a little too Eyes Wide Shut for me.

gosox41
06-21-2004, 10:12 AM
Aren't part of suspensions to publicly display to the league that something won't be tolerated? I would love to believe it, but I think its a little far fetched, I mean, they could of found a better excuse than sneezing.
Maybe the dumber or more vague the excuse the less questions will be asked. If he hurt it washing his motorcylces ala Jeff Kent it would cause a lot more media attention to think of the real story. The Trib. Is a great marketing machine.

I have my doubts. I heard this rumor. It wound't surprise me in the slightest. I hope it's true. But this can also go along the lines of Michael Jordan being suspended from b-ball for one year due to gambling. There may be no way to find out the truth.


Bob

SSN721
06-21-2004, 10:40 AM
I dont know, I would really want to beleive it. But I just dont see it, this is as juicy as the refs fixing games in the NBA conspiracy theories. I want to beleive them but I am just a little to skeptical about this. There just doesnt seem enough to back it up. I dont know, I hope I am proven wrong, I just dont see it though. We would never find out anyway, at least not from our local press. ANd even if it was true, lots of Cub fans are stupid enough that they wouldnt care, I swear he could get away with murdering children and Cub fans would justify it somehow, he is untouchable.

iftypofixit
06-21-2004, 10:54 AM
If it were true, wouldn't you think MLB/Cubs would come up with a better excuse for an injury... Sneezing and throwing out your back isn't something to just make up out of nowhere, they would try and make some better excuse.

gosox41
06-21-2004, 11:35 AM
This is not plausible. Under the current agreement, you'd have to get caught 3 or 4 times (at least) to get that long a suspension. There's no way that's happened all in one season. Also, just to be clear, you are suggesting that this is a conspiracy all the way up, that even MLB doesn't acknowledge this internally as a suspension, right? Because players are allowed injury rehab assignments to the minors, but I don't think they're allowed suspension rehabs. So Selig would have to be conspiring in allowing the Cubs to blatantly flout the rules regarding rehab. That's a little too Eyes Wide Shut for me.
Not really. It's a 30 days suspenion. The Trib. wrote an article last week about how the Cubs were 16-14 without Sosa. I'm betting they had a few off says in there..maybe even the 3 Sosa took to go down to the minors and rehab.

Also, I think the rules call for 2-3 tests before being suspended for 30 days. He took it before 2003. He took it again before the 2004 season. And if he failed it back in March, why wouldnt the test players 45-60 days later? I heard all it takes is 30 days to wash out of your system.

Would it really surprise anyone that MLB is going to suspend Sammy and hide it? Or let's put it another way. When Albert Belle got caught using a corked bat there was a period where all teams were checking bats of the other teams power hitters. It was a mind game in most cases, but MLB had to enforce the rule that only one bat can be checked a game by each team.

How come no one checked Sammy's bat after he was caught with cork? Is it that hard to psyche Sammy out? Was that really his first and only time he's done that? You don't think a shrewed, whiny manager like LaRussa would use this to his advantage if he were allowed. I find it funny how after the whole corked bat incident no one seemed to think Sammy was cheating after he got caught. Why not? Was it his consisntency in his power numbers or that innocent looking oversized face?

Bob

Irishsox1
06-21-2004, 11:37 AM
Total garbage story. According to the player association, a player can't sit out any games until the 3rd time they test positive. I believe the sneezing story, because someone who's on steroids would blow out there back sneezing.

gosox41
06-21-2004, 11:39 AM
Total garbage story. According to the player association, a player can't sit out any games until the 3rd time they test positive. I believe the sneezing story, because someone who's on steroids would blow out there back sneezing.
Sosa could have easily had 3 steroid tests.
I doubt it's true, but hope it is.


Bob

bennyw41
06-21-2004, 11:43 AM
Sosa could have easily had 3 steroid tests.
I doubt it's true, but hope it is.


Bob
Whats the point of suspending someone if no-one is taught a lesson by it?

mendozaln
06-21-2004, 11:53 AM
Not really. It's a 30 days suspenion. The Trib. wrote an article last week about how the Cubs were 16-14 without Sosa. I'm betting they had a few off says in there..maybe even the 3 Sosa took to go down to the minors and rehab.

Also, I think the rules call for 2-3 tests before being suspended for 30 days. He took it before 2003. He took it again before the 2004 season. And if he failed it back in March, why wouldnt the test players 45-60 days later? I heard all it takes is 30 days to wash out of your system.

Would it really surprise anyone that MLB is going to suspend Sammy and hide it? Or let's put it another way. When Albert Belle got caught using a corked bat there was a period where all teams were checking bats of the other teams power hitters. It was a mind game in most cases, but MLB had to enforce the rule that only one bat can be checked a game by each team.

How come no one checked Sammy's bat after he was caught with cork? Is it that hard to psyche Sammy out? Was that really his first and only time he's done that? You don't think a shrewed, whiny manager like LaRussa would use this to his advantage if he were allowed. I find it funny how after the whole corked bat incident no one seemed to think Sammy was cheating after he got caught. Why not? Was it his consisntency in his power numbers or that innocent looking oversized face?

Bob



No, no, no. This rumor is just flat-out wrong. Look, the tests conducted earlier don't count under the drug policy. Remember, they were (officially) anonymous. Now, players can be tested ONLY once this season. That means that it is impossible for any suspension penalties to be triggered this season, since the first offense just triggers some sort of warning. Plus, there have been many reports that drug testing has been implemented very slowly (eg http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1815892).

If you want to awaken the corked bat issue, okay, I agree with you on that. The worst part of that is that Sosa switched to a similar-looking bat the game before he was caught, and singled in the winning run in extra-innings. And the Cubs only won the division by a single game. I think everyone (fans, press) should have been much angrier than they were.

But this is a different accusation, and it isn't true. If Sox fans start calling in to radio shows making this accusation, it won't be the Cubs that end up looking bad.

Sox PA
06-21-2004, 12:02 PM
MLB to Penalize Players for Steroid Use

Friday, November 14, 2003
http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103034,00.html
"Starting next year, a first positive test for steroid use would result in treatment and a second in a 15-day suspension or fine of up to $10,000.

The length of penalties would increase to a 25-day suspension or fine of up to $25,000 for a third positive test, a 50-day suspension or fine of up to $50,000 for a fourth and a one-year suspension or fine of up to $100,000 for a fifth. The suspensions would be without pay."


Sosa was placed on the DL effective date 5/16/04, a Sunday.
He played in 3 minor league games 6/13, 6/14, 6/15, traveled on Wednesday, 6/16, and was put back on the roster on 6/18/04, the 34th day.
5/16/04 to 6/12/04 inclusive is 28 days (interestingly enough the standard drug/alcohol rehab program length), which means he was not available for
you guessed it, 25 games (1 game was postponed and played as a doubleheader, but the total of games missed was 25 before he went to the rehab stint in Tennessee.)

Pretty interesting, I would love to see an article on this from a major news source.

mendozaln
06-21-2004, 12:13 PM
Pretty interesting, I would love to see an article on this from a major news source.
You won't, b/c it's not true. No player can be tested more than once this season.

Sox PA
06-21-2004, 12:46 PM
You won't, b/c it's not true. No player can be tested more than once this season.

An FAQ on MLB's Drug-Testing Rules
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2634



Q. How will the steroid testing program operate in 2004?

A. The testing itself will be conducted the same way: two tests per player, between five and seven days apart, no testing during the off-season. Any player who tests positive will be placed on the "Clinical Track." He will be evaluated by the HPAC's two medical representatives, who will prescribe a course of treatment. The names of players on the Clinical Track will remain confidential. If the recommended treatment program renders the player unavailable to his club, he receives full salary for the first 30 days' absence, half pay for days 31 through 60, and no pay thereafter.

If the player cooperates and doesn't test positive again, that's the end of the matter. If he tests positive or fails to comply with his treatment program, he will be transferred to the "Administrative Track." Once on the Administrative Track, penalties start accruing:

First failure to comply with treatment: 15- to 25-day suspension, up to $10,000 fine. A player who complies with his treatment plan but subsequently tests positive for a second time is subject to a 15-day suspension and $10,000 fine. Penalties for subsequent positive tests escalate along the pattern set forth below.

Second failure to comply with treatment: 25- to 50-day suspension, up to $25,000 fine

Third failure to comply with treatment: 50-75 day suspension, up to $50,000 fine

Fourth failure to comply with treatment: Suspension of one year or more, up to $100,000 fine

Fifth or subsequent failure: Additional sanctions "consistent with the concept of progressive discipline."
In addition, while MLB won't reveal the details that led to a player's placement on the Administrative Track, it will announce that the player was suspended for violation of the drug program. (Here's the announcement (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_press_release.jsp?ymd=20040217&content_id=638144&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp) of Josh Hamilton's suspension.)


So It appears that if a player was suspended while on the administrative track, it would be announced. But, if a player is cooperating with a "plan" he could stay on the "clinical track" and might not be placed on the "administrative track." As part of a confidential plan anything is possible, including a stint on the DL.

Since gosox41 claims the source is reliable, it still may be a possibility.

HebrewHammer
06-21-2004, 12:47 PM
http://mb3.theinsiders.com/fchicagocubsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=9240.topic

Check this out, bunch of yuppie alchoholic trolls

mendozaln
06-21-2004, 01:19 PM
An FAQ on MLB's Drug-Testing Rules
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2634



Q. How will the steroid testing program operate in 2004?

A. The testing itself will be conducted the same way: two tests per player, between five and seven days apart, no testing during the off-season. Any player who tests positive will be placed on the "Clinical Track." He will be evaluated by the HPAC's two medical representatives, who will prescribe a course of treatment. The names of players on the Clinical Track will remain confidential. If the recommended treatment program renders the player unavailable to his club, he receives full salary for the first 30 days' absence, half pay for days 31 through 60, and no pay thereafter.

If the player cooperates and doesn't test positive again, that's the end of the matter. If he tests positive or fails to comply with his treatment program, he will be transferred to the "Administrative Track." Once on the Administrative Track, penalties start accruing:

First failure to comply with treatment: 15- to 25-day suspension, up to $10,000 fine. A player who complies with his treatment plan but subsequently tests positive for a second time is subject to a 15-day suspension and $10,000 fine. Penalties for subsequent positive tests escalate along the pattern set forth below.
Second failure to comply with treatment: 25- to 50-day suspension, up to $25,000 fine
Third failure to comply with treatment: 50-75 day suspension, up to $50,000 fine
Fourth failure to comply with treatment: Suspension of one year or more, up to $100,000 fine
Fifth or subsequent failure: Additional sanctions "consistent with the concept of progressive discipline."
In addition, while MLB won't reveal the details that led to a player's placement on the Administrative Track, it will announce that the player was suspended for violation of the drug program. (Here's the announcement (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_press_release.jsp?ymd=20040217&content_id=638144&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp) of Josh Hamilton's suspension.)


So It appears that if a player was suspended while on the administrative track, it would be announced. But, if a player is cooperating with a "plan" he could stay on the "clinical track" and might not be placed on the "administrative track." As part of a confidential plan anything is possible, including a stint on the DL.

Since gosox41 claims the source is reliable, it still may be a possibility.
I did have it wrong, but I still very strongly doubt that this is the case. First, this is essentially one test, the second one is only used to verify the first positive. Second, the clinical track is intended to help individuals with medical problems with drugs (addiction) -- if Sosa was addicted, we should see a HUGE change in his production, as it means he's been on the juice for many years. We'll see. And finally, the clinical period can be as long as the medical representatives recommend, so ANY Sosa absense could be explained the same way.

RichFitztightly
06-21-2004, 01:36 PM
I was mostly skimming over the posts in this thread. I'm pretty sure this is all in a joking tone, which makes it a little amusing. However, in case anybody is actually serious about this topic then that's gotta be the most rediculous thing I've heard in a while. I remember the Southtown having a play-by-play description of the sneeze and subsequent injury. This sneeze was done with witnesses present who documented the occasion.

the_valenstache
06-21-2004, 03:07 PM
This sneeze was done with witnesses present who documented the occasion.

Ah, you see, how carefully planned this sneeze is turning out to be.

In other news, Major League Baseball is trying to read our thoughts using a satellite. I can't reveal my source on that one. :D:

Sox PA
06-21-2004, 03:20 PM
I agree that it is probably doubtful that Sosa's back injury is a cover-up of a positive steroid test, but based on Sosa's history - weighed 165 with the Sox and now weighs 230, and the corked bat, I think anything is possible.

And it sure is fun speculating.:D:

Railsplitter
06-21-2004, 08:43 PM
Considering the flap over steriods, nailing as big a fish as Sosa would have had a big news conference.

Viva Magglio
06-21-2004, 08:52 PM
I'd be surprised if it were true. It's just like the rumor that Michael Jordan's first retirement from basketball was an NBA suspension for gambling. If Sosa was suspended for steroid use, it would have leaked. Things that big don't hold water.