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MRKARNO
06-20-2004, 12:06 PM
I know the Sox have looked bad lately, but here are some positive signs:

-We're first in the majors in runs scored

-We're third in the AL in runs allowed.

Eventually with Shingo and Marte at the back end of the bullpen, who wont blow our leads like Koch did, this will even out and we should take the division

thezeker
06-20-2004, 12:38 PM
That's a very good point.

Starting pitching could be our downfall. I doubt if we go the rest of the season without one of the big 4 starters going down to injury for a period of time.

That puts us in a position where we will probably need a qulaity starter and at least a capable journeyman to eat up some innings.

The future is now. If we have to trade every prospect in the organization to get a couple of quality starters, that we can keep for more than just this season, we should do it! If the rest of our prospects are equivalent to our pitching prospects good riddance.

We've got a window to the playoffs and possible farther this season. Let's hope Kenny finds a way to open that window & bring us a championship. It's his ballgame!!!

Lip Man 1
06-20-2004, 12:43 PM
The best sign for the Sox is the fact that they aren't in the A.L. East or West.


Lip

viagracat
06-20-2004, 12:51 PM
[QUOTE=thezeker]That's a very good point.

Starting pitching could be our downfall. I doubt if we go the rest of the season without one of the big 4 starters going down to injury for a period of time.

Man, I'm old enough to remember when every team had four-man rotations and pitchers routinely threw 150 or more pitches in an attempt to finish what they started. I remember reading Sandy Koufax once threw 210 some pitches in a single game, and top starters routinely threw more than 300 innings a year. Yes, the wisdom of that can be debated (Koufax was done at age 31), but there seems to be no question that although the game, salaries and kind of pitches thrown these days has changed, I also think pitchers were better-conditioned in the old days. Is it possible that a blister or sore triceps that would sideline a guy today not even would have been mentioned 30 or 40 years ago?

In other words, perhaps the starting four should try to suck it up a little more for a pennant drive. And get a fifth starter!:redneck

slugfish
06-20-2004, 01:09 PM
[QUOTE=thezeker]
I also think pitchers were better-conditioned in the old days. Is it possible that a blister or sore triceps that would sideline a guy today not even would have been mentioned 30 or 40 years ago?


There is no doubt that pitchers are better conditioned today. But with the advances of modern medicine and training techniques, baseball team now have guidlines on how to handle a pitcher's exposure. Generally most pitchers are in better shape now than ever. They are just more valuable now with their inflated payroll and limited availability from major league expansion.

The ball has been juiced as well have the hitters. Strike zones have shrunk and most importantly, the mounds have been shrunk. It should be no surprise that the majority of pitchers are tall. Height, whether from the mound or from a pitchers body is one of the biggest factors of fatigue. And if the mound is lowered, the pitcher is also effectively lowered. Throwing the ball uphill instead of down can have an incredible effect on a pitchers stamina.

Koufax would still be a hall of fame pitcher today, but his pitch count would definately suffer. And a blister would never sideline a guy with his toughness. Pitchers may be softer and more aware of their condition these days, but they are still in great shape.

Saracen
06-20-2004, 01:48 PM
It was 30 years ago this week that Nolan Ryan pitched 13 innings, 235 pitches, and lost to Luis Tiant who went 14 innings.

If guys could do it then, they can certainly suck it up now.

viagracat
06-20-2004, 02:17 PM
There is no doubt that pitchers are better conditioned today. But with the advances of modern medicine and training techniques, baseball team now have guidlines on how to handle a pitcher's exposure. Generally most pitchers are in better shape now than ever. They are just more valuable now with their inflated payroll and limited availability from major league expansion.

The ball has been juiced as well have the hitters. Strike zones have shrunk and most importantly, the mounds have been shrunk. It should be no surprise that the majority of pitchers are tall. Height, whether from the mound or from a pitchers body is one of the biggest factors of fatigue. And if the mound is lowered, the pitcher is also effectively lowered. Throwing the ball uphill instead of down can have an incredible effect on a pitchers stamina.

Koufax would still be a hall of fame pitcher today, but his pitch count would definately suffer. And a blister would never sideline a guy with his toughness. Pitchers may be softer and more aware of their condition these days, but they are still in great shape.
Good points, slugfish. Guess I'm just another of those old geezer purists that long for the game "the way it used to be", whatever that means. I liked the game before it became high-priced science.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2004, 04:31 PM
Or how about in 1963 when the Giants beat the Braves 1-0 in 16 innings on a Willie Mays home run. Both starting pitchers went the distance! Marichal and Spahn.


Lip