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View Full Version : *Official* 6-17-04 Sox at Marlins Postgame Thread


FarWestChicago
06-17-2004, 10:19 PM
Ugh...... http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/frown.gif

Iguana775
06-17-2004, 10:19 PM
oh joy! 1.5 games back now....:angry:

SEALgep
06-17-2004, 10:20 PM
We look like ****! You walk guys, and don't take walks, you'll lose. The Twins will tell you that too. Unbelieveable.

Cubbiesuck13
06-17-2004, 10:20 PM
how did they blow it, espn wont refresh anything for me.

California Sox
06-17-2004, 10:20 PM
Politte's got a good arm. But he walks the world. Ditto Adkins. Ditto Koch. Jackson is toast. Man, I'd kill for Gene Nelson right about now.

ndgt10
06-17-2004, 10:21 PM
God damn Politte. Why in the world does he keep throwing pitches on the outside corner. The hitter can have 5 great swings at it, and he still will throw it there. ***.

jeremyb1
06-17-2004, 10:21 PM
I'm curious what others take is on Politte's struggles. DJ accused him of nibbling too much tonight and Hawk agreed with him. However, to my eye it doens't look like he's aiming for the corners and just missing when he has control problems, it looks like he has mechanical issues and simply can't find the plate. Regardless, he pitched a lot better once Coop came out tonight. Too bad about the walk and the steal.

ndgt10
06-17-2004, 10:22 PM
We're damn lucky we didn't get swept in that series.

A.T. Money
06-17-2004, 10:22 PM
Pollite is crap. I'm tired of him aiming the ball too. He can slide his ass down to the end of the bench right next to Krotch.

whitesoxwilkes
06-17-2004, 10:22 PM
Aggrivating. Only way to describe it. We get runners on in extra innings and can't push them over. GRRRRRR. What's got me maddest though is that I don't feel like we have a pitcher we can count on in extra innings...Takatsu and Marte are good for an inning, but we run out of options after that with Politte, Jackson and Adkins.

Mickster
06-17-2004, 10:22 PM
Sometimes I just don't know what Ozzie is thinking. I felt confortable with Marte pitching the 9th and the 10th. Why no Shingo for the 11th and possibly 12th? The second they put in Politte, I knew the game was over. What is his fascination with the outside of the plate? Why not even try to run one into the batter's hands? Ugly. :(:

Nard
06-17-2004, 10:23 PM
Bunting into double plays is the reason Esty's parents split up.



Did I mention that I hate the NL?

inta
06-17-2004, 10:23 PM
pathetic.

balboner
06-17-2004, 10:24 PM
I know most people probably don't want to hear this, but I don't think Ozzie is a good major league manager. He made so many poor decisions tonight, and seems to be outmanaged on a constant basis. For all the creativity that he was supposed to bring to the team, I can't recall seeing anything new or unusual from the Sox. Rather, the Sox are the team that people are running on like crazy. An example of a terrible decision tonight was letting Frank run after he was hit by the pitch in the 9th. Instead of having Willie run for him to try and steal and get into scoring position, he left Frank in so he could eventually be caught stealing. Then, he ends up taking him out after that half of the inning. Sure, Ozzie looked like a great manager when Willie, Carlos, and Uribe were hitting. Everyone knew that they wouldnt keep up their starts. Ozzieball = 2 place by 1.5 games

Jjav829
06-17-2004, 10:25 PM
We need another bullpen arm. We're running into the same problems as last year where we could only count on Gordon and Marte. Everyone else was horrible. What a crappy game. :(:

ndgt10
06-17-2004, 10:25 PM
Don't worry, we will have a stud reliever, Garcia, and Beltran in a couple weeks.

On a side note, I believe that Curtis Leskanic was released by the Royals today. I know he's been **** this season, but hell, he can't be any worse than the guys we have in our bullpen now.

SoxxoS
06-17-2004, 10:25 PM
THE MOST STUBBORN MANAGEMENT, EVER!

I could say, with confidence, that everyone knew we were going to lose that game as soon as Politte came in. I said it in the "In-game" thread. It was a no-brainer.

We have a major right handed bullpen weakness on our hands. Major. Mike Jackson, Cliff Politte, and Billy Botch CAN NOT be a part of a championship team...

I ask you. Would any of you have confidence giving the ball to ANY 3 of those clowns listed above...in a playoff series? I have confidence in Adkins, Marte and Shingo. That's it. MAYBE Cotts, but that is pushing the envelope.

Interleague play really f's our world up...but last I checked, we have to play interleague if we make it to the "Ultimate Goal." So KW better figure something our. We need 2 righty arms in the pen and a starter.

I am just pissed that the Twins keep winning, with that team they have. It is unreal. I will just take solace that they play a tough schedule, which includes the Yankees (who own them like no other team in baseball) down the stretch. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Cubbiesuck13
06-17-2004, 10:27 PM
I know most people probably don't want to hear this, but I don't think Ozzie is a good major league manager. He made so many poor decisions tonight, and seems to be outmanaged on a constant basis. For all the creativity that he was supposed to bring to the team, I can't recall seeing anything new or unusual from the Sox. Rather, the Sox are the team that people are running on like crazy. An example of a terrible decision tonight was letting Frank run after he was hit by the pitch in the 9th. Instead of having Willie run for him to try and steal and get into scoring position, he left Frank in so he could eventually be caught stealing. Then, he ends up taking him out after that half of the inning. Sure, Ozzie looked like a great manager when Willie, Carlos, and Uribe were hitting. Everyone knew that they wouldnt keep up their starts. Ozzieball = 2 place by 1.5 games
don't worry about it, you will think that he is a good manager once we start winning. the same thing happens every loss. and then goes away when we win again. it's kinda sad really

ndgt10
06-17-2004, 10:27 PM
I know most people probably don't want to hear this, but I don't think Ozzie is a good major league manager. He made so many poor decisions tonight, and seems to be outmanaged on a constant basis. For all the creativity that he was supposed to bring to the team, I can't recall seeing anything new or unusual from the Sox. Rather, the Sox are the team that people are running on like crazy. An example of a terrible decision tonight was letting Frank run after he was hit by the pitch in the 9th. Instead of having Willie run for him to try and steal and get into scoring position, he left Frank in so he could eventually be caught stealing. Then, he ends up taking him out after that half of the inning. Sure, Ozzie looked like a great manager when Willie, Carlos, and Uribe were hitting. Everyone knew that they wouldnt keep up their starts. Ozzieball = 2 place by 1.5 games
To become a good manager, you have manage. Give the guy a break, it's his first half season.

chisoxfan79
06-17-2004, 10:27 PM
why do the bats go dead on the road?:bandance:

balboner
06-17-2004, 10:28 PM
The point about Shingo pitching instead of Cliff is a great point. McKeon had no problem pitching Benitez for two innings in a non-save situation. Was there any doubt that Politte would walk Castillo?

ndgt10
06-17-2004, 10:29 PM
Curtis Leskanic.

jeremyb1
06-17-2004, 10:29 PM
God damn Politte. Why in the world does he keep throwing pitches on the outside corner. The hitter can have 5 great swings at it, and he still will throw it there. ***.

That's similar to what Hawk and DJ said but do you really think Politte is calling the location of his pitches? That'd seem like it comes from the catcher or the dugout. It's not like Burke was setting up inside and Politte was defying him and throwing outside.

I have two thoughts on this series. First of all, the offense has been terrible with the exception of late Tuesday. Aside from that we scored one run the entire series. The Marlins starters are good but their pen isn't particularly good and certainly lacks depth. We were really lucky to get Beckett out of the game and then we looked just as helpless against a parade of relievers with ERAs over five. Ridiculous. Some of this can be blamed on playing without two of our best three hitters but probably not all of it.

Second, it's easy to get upset about being 1.5 games back but let's gain some perspective here. The Twins just required two comebacks and a home run that should've been foul to avoid being swept by a team that's 20-44. We on the other hand are playing the defending champions with the second best record in the NL. We should've expected to lose ground during this series. Some of the descrepencies in the difficulty of scheduling won't even out because of interleague play (what we gain in fun and attendance during the Cubs series we'll lose in W-L record) but in general we've played an infinately more difficult schedule than the Twins. They'll either have to start playing better or we'll have to fall back from our early pace for them to have a shot at the division. If each team keeps on playing as it has thus far for the rest of the season the schedule of the rest of the way will allow us to anihilate the Twins in the central.

bluestar
06-17-2004, 10:31 PM
I know most people probably don't want to hear this, but I don't think Ozzie is a good major league manager. He made so many poor decisions tonight, and seems to be outmanaged on a constant basis. For all the creativity that he was supposed to bring to the team, I can't recall seeing anything new or unusual from the Sox. Rather, the Sox are the team that people are running on like crazy. An example of a terrible decision tonight was letting Frank run after he was hit by the pitch in the 9th. Instead of having Willie run for him to try and steal and get into scoring position, he left Frank in so he could eventually be caught stealing. Then, he ends up taking him out after that half of the inning. Sure, Ozzie looked like a great manager when Willie, Carlos, and Uribe were hitting. Everyone knew that they wouldnt keep up their starts. Ozzieball = 2 place by 1.5 games
I have to agree with you. There have been several curious moves throughout the season, but as long as they win, the questionable moves are easy to overlook. I'm willing to cut Ozzie some slack, but sometimes it seems like he doesn't learn from his mistakes (like letting Loaiza attempt to bunt a SECOND time).

ma-gaga
06-17-2004, 10:32 PM
Like I said on the game thread, the Expos suck. I can't believe how bad their situation is. They've scored 191 runs. Thats terrible... The W.Sox COULD lap them this year...

yuck. On a related not one of my fantasy baseball teams has Vidro, Cabrero, Wilkerson and Endy Chavez all in my starting lineup. I'm in fourth place (16 teams) thanks to my Cardinals (Pujols and Rolen).

:dtroll: <--- what a great tag! I think I have to incorporate it into my signature...

Cubbiesuck13
06-17-2004, 10:32 PM
The point about Shingo pitching instead of Cliff is a great point. McKeon had no problem pitching Benitez for two innings in a non-save situation. Was there any doubt that Politte would walk Castillo?
I can honestly say that the Oz did not know that Politte would give up the winnning run.

What would you have said if Shingo pitches and gives it up? or if he got out of the inning and we get a run and have to bring in kotch, or politte, or jackson and they gave up the game? you and people saying what you are saying would rip him for bringing shingo in too early. The Oz is right, you can't be afraid to loose a game and when you do he is going to take the heat.

TaylorStSox
06-17-2004, 10:34 PM
I'm curious what others take is on Politte's struggles. DJ accused him of nibbling too much tonight and Hawk agreed with him. However, to my eye it doens't look like he's aiming for the corners and just missing when he has control problems, it looks like he has mechanical issues and simply can't find the plate. Regardless, he pitched a lot better once Coop came out tonight. Too bad about the walk and the steal.

I think it's confidence. He doesn't seem to want to attack batters. He doesn't have faith in his slider. He won't throw it inside. If he started that slider in, it would jam just about everybody. It has enough movement to still catch the corner. It's all mental.

jeremyb1
06-17-2004, 10:34 PM
I think it's confidence. He doesn't seem to want to attack batters. He doesn't have faith in his slider. He won't throw it inside. If he started that slider in, it would jam just about everybody. It has enough movement to still catch the corner. It's all mental.

Yeah it just seems to me like he misses a ton and consistently in the same spot when he's off so I think it's mechanical.

MRKARNO
06-17-2004, 10:37 PM
Thank you for the much needed dose of rational optimism. When people tell me "Oh the Sox will be better, just wait" or "Ozzie will have them back" that just doesnt quite do it for me. Your posts are always well thought out and make sense. I genuinely felt better after reading your post.

TaylorStSox
06-17-2004, 10:37 PM
Our offense hasn't been terrible. We faced one of the strongest pitching staffs in baseball. A staff that was strong enough to win the World Series. We hung in the games. These things happen in a long season.

Ozzie wasn't the problem either. It's execution. Guys didn't get it done. We almost took 2 of 3 from the world champions. I'm not that upset.

ma-gaga
06-17-2004, 10:40 PM
Second, it's easy to get upset about being 1.5 games back but let's gain some perspective here. The Twins just required two comebacks and a home run that should've been foul to avoid being swept by a team that's 20-44. We on the other hand are playing the defending champions with the second best record in the NL. We should've expected to lose ground during this series. Some of the descrepencies in the difficulty of scheduling won't even out because of interleague play (what we gain in fun and attendance during the Cubs series we'll lose in W-L record) but in general we've played an infinately more difficult schedule than the Twins. They'll either have to start playing better or we'll have to fall back from our early pace for them to have a shot at the division. If each team keeps on playing as it has thus far for the rest of the season the schedule of the rest of the way will allow us to anihilate the Twins in the central.
I thought that FWC had installed a spell checker... :cool:

I agree, the Twins have been sleepwalking, but 6th inning 'rallies' just don't faze me or count as miraculous. The Twins have something like 24 of their 36 wins are the come from behind variery. They easily lead the league in the ever important "trailing after 8 innings" category with 6 wins. They are sick, and they are doing it to everyone, from Oakland to Montreal. I don't know how much of it is "luck" anymore.

The head to heads will decide the division. 4-3 right now.

TaylorStSox
06-17-2004, 10:40 PM
Yeah it just seems to me like he misses a ton and consistently in the same spot when he's off so I think it's mechanical.
I know what you're getting at and I don't see it. His approach is off. He only throws to one side of the plate. He doesn't have the confidence to throw inside.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2004, 10:41 PM
I'm not going to put this debacle on the pitching. One run in nine innings, with this Sox offense, should be a guaranteed win. To be shut out in one game and to score just one run in another game is a disgrace. Even with Maggs out of the lineup the Sox have too much firepower to be this impotent, especially on the road.

I fear that Uribe and Harris are falling back to earth. Crede seems to be improving, but he doesn't hit at the top of the lineup. Despite his streak, Lee seems to be on the verge of an extended slump.

While the Sox need to make a move for another quality starting pitcher, they also need to get a left-handed hitter who can play CF with some speed. Steve Finley fits the bill perfectly, and his World Series experience is a definite plus. He would balance out the lineup nicely.

Kenny needs to make a move to arrest this slump that, IMHO, began on the West Coast. The Sox missed a golden opportunity to build a bigger lead on the Twins when they were tanking against the Rays. Now the Twins are turning it around and the Sox are starting to slump. I fear that the Sox might fall several games back in the race and the Twins will continue to "defy expectations" and win.

Time to make a move, Kenny. There is no time to lose. (In fairness, I acknowledge that he may very well be trying but other teams aren't biting on what KW wants to offer). In any case, if he can't make a deal very soon, at the very least he needs to call up Reed or LTP to get some left-handed pop into the lineup.

jeremyb1
06-17-2004, 10:41 PM
I can honestly say that the Oz did not know that Politte would give up the winnning run.

What would you have said if Shingo pitches and gives it up? or if he got out of the inning and we get a run and have to bring in kotch, or politte, or jackson and they gave up the game? you and people saying what you are saying would rip him for bringing shingo in too early. The Oz is right, you can't be afraid to loose a game and when you do he is going to take the heat.

Well there's two issues with how to manage a pen in a game like this. The first is that the condition of the pen obviously comes into play. Marte pitched two innings and we have no off day so he's obviously unavailable. Would you do the same with Shingo leaving our pen incredibly vulnerable for the next game? I'm inclined to say yes because we're certain this game is close whereas tommorow night's score could be 10-1 (especially with our offense). However, there's always the possiblity that you use both guys and lose and then play a close game tommorow and have the pen blow it so that's a very tough call.

As far as simply which pitchers should be thrown in which situations to win the game, when the game is tied the most effective bullpen usage is going to be to use your best reliver for as long as possible and then when he's done put in your next best reliver for as long as possible then your next best and so on and so forth. The reason for this is that once you allow the other team to score you're in a lot of trouble (or even worse when you're on the road, the game is over unless you've scored in the top half of the inning). Therefore the name of the game is to prevent yourself from losing for as long as possible. It'd be better to go ahead with Shingo in and then have Politte screw up later in the game. Maybe Shingo goes two innings we score a run and Politte comes up and gives up a run to tie. That way we still haven't lost. Even if Politte gives up two runs and we lose we still had a much better chance of winning in that situation since we were able to take the lead.

jeremyb1
06-17-2004, 10:43 PM
I agree, the Twins have been sleepwalking, but 6th inning 'rallies' just don't faze me or count as miraculous. The Twins have something like 24 of their 36 wins are the come from behind variery. They easily lead the league in the ever important "trailing after 8 innings" category with 6 wins. They are sick, and they are doing it to everyone, from Oakland to Montreal. I don't know how much of it is "luck" anymore.

The head to heads will decide the division. 4-3 right now.

Nah because if the Twins of today that play close games and are losing going into the late innings against the dreadful Expos were to play the Yankees they'd be down 6 runs in the ninth and they're not going to come back from that type of deficit with any consistency.

MRKARNO
06-17-2004, 10:43 PM
Our offense hasn't been terrible. We faced one of the strongest pitching staffs in baseball. A staff that was strong enough to win the World Series. We hung in the games. These things happen in a long season.

Ozzie wasn't the problem either. It's execution. Guys didn't get it done. We almost took 2 of 3 from the world champions. I'm not that upset.
This is also a good point. Burnett? Unhittable. Pavano? Untouchable. Beckett? Impossbily dominant. Marlins bullpen in relief of Beckett? We had our chance here and blew it though.
I will only fault the team for not getting it done against the unimpressive Marlins bullpen in the third game. First two guys we saw had ERA's in the high 6's (or at least have that now). The third was a guy with a 5 ERA....in AAA. Then Benitez came on and I really cant fault the sox for not being able to get to him again.

What I'm more upset about is the other events that happened outside this game (Twins winning again, Cubs winning again, Houston losing again.)

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2004, 10:44 PM
We almost took 2 of 3 from the world champions.
The Sox also just avoided being swept. A different call on Frank's homer on Tuesday night and the Sox would have been swept. Not good. This offense needs to pick it up.

Mickster
06-17-2004, 10:45 PM
I can honestly say that the Oz did not know that Politte would give up the winnning run.

What would you have said if Shingo pitches and gives it up? or if he got out of the inning and we get a run and have to bring in kotch, or politte, or jackson and they gave up the game? you and people saying what you are saying would rip him for bringing shingo in too early. The Oz is right, you can't be afraid to loose a game and when you do he is going to take the heat.
First off, McKeon puts in Benitez to pitch 2 innings. While I have honestly no idea of the pitch count for him, I'd venture to guess it was prob. 35 or more for his 2 innings of work.

Shingo has gone 1 2/3 before, has very low pitch count innings and has been on FIRE lately. Go with the hot hand, no? You know going into the bottom of an inning when you didn't score that the only way to win the game is to hold them. Putting Shingo in the treditional "closer" role when we have a lead is fine if you have the lead. You have to hold them in order to have the chance to win. Shingo should have been put in. Just my opinion.

jeremyb1
06-17-2004, 10:45 PM
I know what you're getting at and I don't see it. His approach is off. He only throws to one side of the plate. He doesn't have the confidence to throw inside.

As I said elsewhere, I doubt Politte is calling the location of his pitches. A guy that nibbles ussually just misses because he's not aiming to catch enough plate and therefore if he's off ever so slightly he'll miss. Politte is missing by six inches in two different directions most of the time. It seems as though he could aim for the middle of the plate and wouldn't throw a strike so I don't see what where he's aiming has to do with it. That's based on my personal observations though, maybe someone else thinks he's not missing that much.

TaylorStSox
06-17-2004, 10:47 PM
The Sox also just avoided being swept. A different call on Frank's homer on Tuesday night and the Sox would have been swept. Not good. This offense needs to pick it up.
Agreed. We did face the best staff we've seen this year though. Bar none. Nobody compares with these guys.

I actually like our chances against a staff like this vs. Oakland though. Florida's staff is full of power pitchers. In the long run, we kill power pitchers.

Cubbiesuck13
06-17-2004, 10:47 PM
Well there's two issues with how to manage a pen in a game like this. The first is that the condition of the pen obviously comes into play. Marte pitched two innings and we have no off day so he's obviously unavailable. Would you do the same with Shingo leaving our pen incredibly vulnerable for the next game? I'm inclined to say yes because we're certain this game is close whereas tommorow night's score could be 10-1 (especially with our offense). However, there's always the possiblity that you use both guys and lose and then play a close game tommorow and have the pen blow it so that's a very tough call.

As far as simply which pitchers should be thrown in which situations to win the game, when the game is tied the most effective bullpen usage is going to be to use your best reliver for as long as possible and then when he's done put in your next best reliver for as long as possible then your next best and so on and so forth. The reason for this is that once you allow the other team to score you're in a lot of trouble (or even worse when you're on the road, the game is over unless you've scored in the top half of the inning). Therefore the name of the game is to prevent yourself from losing for as long as possible. It'd be better to go ahead with Shingo in and then have Politte screw up later in the game. Maybe Shingo goes two innings we score a run and Politte comes up and gives up a run to tie. That way we still haven't lost. Even if Politte gives up two runs and we lose we still had a much better chance of winning in that situation since we were able to take the lead.
I guess that is why there are different managers out there. I would think that Pollite, who has been able to put a 1-2-3 inning together before, could do that again. I would save my 'closer' (even tho not offically, but perhaps now that Kotch may be gone) for me to have the lead.

greenpeach
06-17-2004, 10:47 PM
Our offense hasn't been terrible. We faced one of the strongest pitching staffs in baseball. A staff that was strong enough to win the World Series. We hung in the games. These things happen in a long season.

Ozzie wasn't the problem either. It's execution. Guys didn't get it done. We almost took 2 of 3 from the world champions. I'm not that upset.
In addition, let's not forget that we're still missing Maggs & in a National League park we can't use our DH. NL teams have a big advantage over the AL when they're playing at home.

TaylorStSox
06-17-2004, 10:48 PM
As I said elsewhere, I doubt Politte is calling the location of his pitches. A guy that nibbles ussually just misses because he's not aiming to catch enough plate and therefore if he's off ever so slightly he'll miss. Politte is missing by six inches in two different directions most of the time. It seems as though he could aim for the middle of the plate and wouldn't throw a strike so I don't see what where he's aiming has to do with it. That's based on my personal observations though, maybe someone else thinks he's not missing that much.
lol. You don't "aim" pitches. I'm kidding. I know what you're saying though.

Again, with an arm like that, he should be neither "aiming" or "nibbling." He should be attacking and using that slider to get guys out.

Viva Magglio
06-17-2004, 10:52 PM
Great!!! Now we're 1 out of first. We keep losing, and Minnesota keeps winning. I am not ready to push the panic button (yet), but I am getting increasingly angry at how we have been playing over the last two weeks. Tonight's loss was yet another one that should have been a win, and the wins we have managed to acheive over the past two weeks could just have easily been losses (expect for the blowout win over Atlanta last Sunday, probably). If we do not right the ship fast, 2004 will simply be a rerun of 2001, 2002, and 2003. Don't think that Montreal will be a walk in the park for us. Sure, the Expos laid down on their backsides like cheap prostitues for Minnesota, but it would be so us to provide opportunities for Montreal to rebound from their slump. If we don't win at least two out of three, engage the panic button.

TaylorStSox
06-17-2004, 10:58 PM
:prozac Interesting post.

Lip Man 1
06-17-2004, 11:21 PM
Just a few comments:


As far as the offense remember the Sox not only are missing Ordonez but unless you start moving guys all over the field they are also without a second big gun when games are in N.L. parks (either Thomas or Konerko sits...). That is a tremendous handicapp. I know Konerko can't really play 3rd base but how about right field? In the short term he can't be any worse offensively then Gload, Perez and Rowand. All he has to do is make the average plays and it would be a big upgrade.

I agree with those who have concerns about the bullpen. It has been inconsistent all season overall. Pollitte has been walking a number of guys all season long not just tonight. Obviously that's not a good thing for a relief guy who comes into tight games.

I hope they can recover nicely in Montreal but one thing to remember before saying the Sox can get a sweep is who is going opposite the Sox 5th starter Saturday. If it's someone like Livan Hernandez that could make things very dicey.

Finally I think Sox fans nor the Sox themselves should rely on Minnesota's schedule getting 'tougher' as a crutch. One never knows what teams will be on fire, have key injuries or just be in a slump two months from now. Minnesota has a very late three game series with New York, but if the Yanks have already clinched a post season spot (does anybody doubt this?) they many not be playing their regulars...giving them rest before the playoffs. That could dramatically change things. The Sox can not rely on other teams to help them out. That's a tough position to be in.

Lip

elrod
06-17-2004, 11:24 PM
The Twins will win 88 games. You can book it. The question is how many games will the Sox win.

FarWestChicago
06-17-2004, 11:24 PM
I know Konerko can't really play 3rd base but how about right field? In the short term he can't be any worse offensively then Gload, Perez and Rowand. All he has to do is make the average plays and it would be a big upgrade.Lay off the booze, Lip. Do you have any conception of how slow Wheels is? There are 360 pound offensive linemen in the NFL faster than him. My god, every ball would be a potential triple. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif

SoxxoS
06-17-2004, 11:26 PM
Lay off the booze, Lip. Do you have any conception of how slow Wheels is? There are 360 pound offensive linemen in the NFL faster than him. My god, every ball would be a potential triple. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif
Absolutely. If you are going to stick him anywhere, it would be third base.

owensmouth
06-17-2004, 11:31 PM
If there is anything positive to say about being 1 1/2 games back of the Twins, it's this: we have the same number of losses. The Twins have played (and won) three more games than we have.

flo-B-flo
06-17-2004, 11:31 PM
Great!!! Now we're 1 out of first. We keep losing, and Minnesota keeps winning. I am not ready to push the panic button (yet), but I am getting increasingly angry at how we have been playing over the last two weeks. Tonight's loss was yet another one that should have been a win, and the wins we have managed to acheive over the past two weeks could just have easily been losses (expect for the blowout win over Atlanta last Sunday, probably). If we do not right the ship fast, 2004 will simply be a rerun of 2001, 2002, and 2003. Don't think that Montreal will be a walk in the park for us. Sure, the Expos laid down on their backsides like cheap prostitues for Minnesota, but it would be so us to provide opportunities for Montreal to rebound from their slump. If we don't win at least two out of three, engage the panic button.
We got em' right where we want em'! Overall: The Sox are playing great. We'll win our share of these heartbreakers. GO-GO SOX!!

kcsportscaster
06-17-2004, 11:49 PM
Caught the game on mlb.tv from my home near Mobile, AL, with Hawk and D-J, and the Sox blew it more with their lost chances offensively than they did bringing in Politte in the 11th, especially the second time Loaiza bunted when he bunted into that double play. However, what was wrong with NOT bringing in Shingo in the 11th, especially when McKeon brtought Benitez in with a non-save situation???? The Sox MUST sweep the Expos over the weekend. I repeat, MUST sweep the Expos, especially since they are easily the worst team in baseball. They should have taken two of the games from the Twinkies, but in typical Expos fashion, they pissed away late leads, not counting the foul ball "home Run" Wednesday night. Oh, and one more thing: THANK YOU MARLINS FOR MAKING THE LOSS A BIT EASIER TO STOMACH BY TAKING KOCH OFF OUR HANDS!!!!


Later on,

Ken

Cubbiesuck13
06-17-2004, 11:51 PM
Caught the game on mlb.tv from my home near Mobile, AL, with Hawk and D-J, and the Sox blew it more with their lost chances offensively than they did bringing in Politte in the 11th, especially the second time Loaiza bunted when he bunted into that double play. However, what was wrong with NOT bringing in Shingo in the 11th, especially when McKeon brtought Benitez in with a non-save situation???? The Sox MUST sweep the Expos over the weekend. I repeat, MUST sweep the Expos, especially since they are easily the worst team in baseball. They should have taken two of the games from the Twinkies, but in typical Expos fashion, they pissed away late leads, not counting the foul ball "home Run" Wednesday night. Oh, and one more thing: THANK YOU MARLINS FOR MAKING THE LOSS A BIT EASIER TO STOMACH BY TAKING KOCH OFF OUR HANDS!!!!


Later on,

Ken
What news station do you work for? I lived in bama for a while that is why i am curius.

OurBitchinMinny
06-18-2004, 12:10 AM
What news station do you work for? I lived in bama for a while that is why i am curius.
My God the expos suck. If that group of no count baseball players doesnt lay down for the sox like they did for the twins I will be pissed. Nothing less than a sweep is acceptable, unless the brewers sweep the twins....which isnt real likely

kcsportscaster
06-18-2004, 12:10 AM
To answer the last person's question, I live in Baldwin County, Alabama, but I actually work for WCOA Radio in Pensacola, Florida, an hour away, as a sports and news anchor and reporter and studio engineer. I am actually looking to leave that station for a better situation, but I haven't had the best of luck with landing anything in the two years I have been looking and sending packages all over the country. I'll gladly spare the details!!!!

Later on,

Ken

Cubbiesuck13
06-18-2004, 12:12 AM
My God the expos suck. If that group of no count baseball players doesnt lay down for the sox like they did for the twins I will be pissed. Nothing less than a sweep is acceptable, unless the brewers sweep the twins....which isnt real likely
i think i have been taken out of context! :?: did you mean to quote someone else? it's funny, i used to live in MN too. not kidding. hastings. ever here of it?

doublem23
06-18-2004, 12:21 AM
Absolutely. If you are going to stick him anywhere, it would be third base.
Oh dear no... We're going to play the Expos, the last thing we need is to sacrifice defense for some more offensive punch.

Dadawg_77
06-18-2004, 02:03 AM
Lay off the booze, Lip. Do you have any conception of how slow Wheels is? There are 360 pound offensive linemen in the NFL faster than him. My god, every ball would be a potential triple. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif
You know the O is bad when sober man can even think about this for a second.

Dadawg_77
06-18-2004, 02:07 AM
You how they say a manger can cost five games a season, well tonight was one of those nights. This fault for this one lands squarely in Ozzie's lap. Too much stupid small ball cost us big time as three rallies were killed by it. If we don't bunt or hit and run this game, will score at least four runs after Beckett leaves the game. That was the Sox's golden opportunity, but they pissed it away.

soxrme
06-18-2004, 07:51 AM
I believe that the move OZ should have made was to pinch hit for Loaiza in the 7th. We could have had Marte pitch the 7th and 8th. In the NL situation you have to go for runs when you can late in the game. Also on that damn wheel play the baserunner on 2nd has a good chance to steal third. If your going to let them pull that play then put some pressure on them. Bad game for us, lets go to Montreal and get a win:wink:

Billy Koch to bad it didn't work out. KW better have another move in mind.

rmusacch
06-18-2004, 12:57 PM
Politte's got a good arm. But he walks the world. Ditto Adkins. Ditto Koch. Jackson is toast. Man, I'd kill for Gene Nelson right about now.
Do you mean Jeff Nelson? He is nearing the end of his career. He is sidelined right now with knee and elbow injuries.

SoxxoS
06-18-2004, 01:19 PM
Oh dear no... We're going to play the Expos, the last thing we need is to sacrifice defense for some more offensive punch.
It looks like we are catching their starters at the right time, I want no part of Hernandez. Day is solid (and someone I would LOVE for KW to get). He will probably shut our ass down on Sunday. I am not proposing Konerko plays third, but it would be a better option than the outfield.

ode to veeck
06-18-2004, 01:24 PM
West Wrote
Lay off the booze, Lip. Do you have any conception of how slow Wheels is? There are 360 pound offensive linemen in the NFL faster than him. My god, every ball would be a potential triple.
I'd wager that even West would beat Paulie in a 20 yard dash (shorter race gives Paulie a chance to)

FarWestChicago
06-18-2004, 01:25 PM
I'd wager that even West would beat Paulie in a 20 yard dash (shorter race gives Paulie a chance to)LOL, I would have crushed Wheels at his age. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

ode to veeck
06-18-2004, 01:27 PM
To answer the last person's question, I live in Baldwin County, Alabama, but I actually work for WCOA Radio in Pensacola, Florida, an hour away, as a sports and news anchor and reporter and studio engineer. I am actually looking to leave that station for a better situation, but I haven't had the best of luck with landing anything in the two years I have been looking and sending packages all over the country. I'll gladly spare the details!!!!

Later on,

Ken
Write to all the Chicago stations and lie to them, telling them you are a rabid foaming at the mouth Cubs fan, then talk about nothing but the Sox once you get on the airwaves

ode to veeck
06-18-2004, 01:31 PM
Reading the papers this morning here in Chicago and on the web, I have to ask the similar question thats been posted here already, why not put Shingo in there in the 11th after Marte did the job for 2 innings. Also, I am convinced he should be the closer at this point (I was dubious before), and that woulda been the logical point to bring in the closer. Even with the score tied, you should expect to be able to get up to 2 innings if needed (& if the Sox couldn't score by then, well didn't deserve to win)

Make Shingo the Closer OZZIE!!

PaleHoseGeorge
06-18-2004, 01:33 PM
Absolutely. If you are going to stick him [Konerko]anywhere, it would be third base.
Hey wait a minute! He can't turn the 3-6-3 double play over there. We need his stellar defense at the first sack. Nobody impersonates a tree trunk quite like "Wheels" Konerko!

:)

delben91
06-18-2004, 01:34 PM
Reading the papers this morning here in Chicago and on the web, I have to ask the similar question thats been posted here already, why not put Shingo in there in the 11th after Marte did the job for 2 innings. Also, I am convinced he should be the closer at this point (I was dubious before), and that woulda been the logical point to bring in the closer. Even with the score tied, you should expect to be able to get up to 2 innings if needed (& if the Sox couldn't score by then, well didn't deserve to win)

Make Shingo the Closer OZZIE!!

I may be wrong on this...but wasn't the pitcher's spot in the order due up first in the bottom half of the inning. I say this just because Ozzie may have gone with Politte knowing that if he put in Shingo he'd only be able to pitch the one inning and if the Sox didn't score, he'd have to go to Politte or Jackson thereafter. Just a thought, and I could be wrong.

mdep524
06-18-2004, 01:42 PM
In three games vs. top tier starting pitchers the Sox scored ONE run off Burnett, Pavano and Beckett COMBINED.

Does anyone else see a problem with this? As in, when the homerun ball isn't working the Sox have to get something else going. I really hope KW moves Konerko or Lee and gets a Beltran or Steve Finley type- or maybe just Jeremy Reed- to give this offense some versatility.
Let's go get 'em in Montreal!

PaleHoseGeorge
06-18-2004, 01:51 PM
In three games vs. top tier starting pitchers the Sox scored ONE run off Burnett, Pavano and Beckett COMBINED.

Does anyone else see a problem with this? As in, when the homerun ball isn't working the Sox have to get something else going. I really hope KW moves Konerko or Lee and gets a Beltran or Steve Finley type- or maybe just Jeremy Reed- to give this offense some versatility.
Let's go get 'em in Montreal!
Frank missed one of those games, and Magglio missed all three. One is hurt and is definitely coming back. The other is getting benched only because of the stupidity of the manager, apparently unaware that his predecessor lost his job for making exactly the same mistake... playing inferior ballplayers simply to keep 'em sharp and stroke their ego. I agree it is a concern, but I'm not panicking yet.

Having said that, trading away one of our lesser hitters that is always looking dead-red to cream the ball (Lee, Konerko, or Valentin) makes a lot of sense. It's been a problem of this ballclub's line up for a long time.

SoxxoS
06-18-2004, 01:54 PM
Having said that, trading away one of our lesser hitters that is always looking dead-red to cream the ball (Lee, Konerko, or Valentin) makes a lot of sense. It's been a problem of this ballclub's line up for a long time.
I don't think all 3 of those guys try to cream the ball...Valentin's average is the best it's been in a long time...Lee has only 6 homers and we all know about the hitting streak...and Konerko's average and OBP don't indicate that he is swinging for the fences...

Good pitching beats good hitting every time. We just ran into 3 very, very good pitchers. If you (not you PHG, but everyone) watched the games, you saw that those guys were on. Big time. I am more concerned about not getting to the bullpen in yesterday's game. At least we did get to Benitez in the first game.