PDA

View Full Version : Back to Second Place due to a missing foul pole?


Viva Magglio
06-16-2004, 10:31 PM
Luis Rivas hits one down the line that is called fair, meaning HR, but shown foul by the replays. Meanwhile, where the @#$% is the foul pole in Olympic Stadium???

You know, nothing would typify our luck more than to fall into second place with something like that!!!

CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Lip Man 1
06-16-2004, 10:44 PM
Viva:

Reminds me of last year where the Twins came back to win after the Orioles catcher dropped the third strike and supposedly final out.

or the key game with Anaheim where the runner was dead to rights, out at home to end the game only he slides, breaking Benji Molina's wrist. Molina (naturally) dropped the ball so the tying run scored but then amazingly the ball started rolling up the line towards first base, instead of going back towards the screen where the pitcher was backing up the play and Shannon Stewart came all the way around to win it.

I don't know maybe the 'baseball gods,' got pissed when baseball tried to contract them.

Lip

Viva Magglio
06-16-2004, 10:49 PM
I cannot think of a better example of why INSTANT REPLAY must be brought to MLB than the Vidro non-HR.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2004, 10:51 PM
Vidro or Rivas? or did something else happen in the game?

Lip

California Sox
06-16-2004, 10:53 PM
The Twins are the luckiest team I've ever seen. They're eight games over .500 and THEY'VE BEEN OUTSCORED!!!

Of course, if we had Nathan and they had Krotch we'd be up about 5 games on them. Well, at least Krotch only makes about 4mil more a year.

MRKARNO
06-16-2004, 10:56 PM
The Twins are the luckiest team I've ever seen. They're eight games over .500 and THEY'VE BEEN OUTSCORED!!!

Of course, if we had Nathan and they had Krotch we'd be up about 5 games on them. Well, at least Krotch only makes about 4mil more a year.
I just dont see how they can possibly keep it up if they continue to get outscored. It just doesnt happen. I dont even know how to rationalize it. It's incredible. I still cant see them winning the division though. Hopefully when they play a tougher schedule down the stretch, the better teams wont put up with their bull and they slaughter them.

Kogs35
06-16-2004, 11:11 PM
I cannot think of a better example of why INSTANT REPLAY must be brought to MLB than the Vidro non-HR.
"After reviewing the play the ball is indeed foul. by rule that is strike 2. montreal is not charged with an out when they are up to bat in the bottom of the inning"

Win1ForMe
06-16-2004, 11:22 PM
I just dont see how they can possibly keep it up if they continue to get outscored. It just doesnt happen. I dont even know how to rationalize it. It's incredible. I still cant see them winning the division though. Hopefully when they play a tougher schedule down the stretch, the better teams wont put up with their bull and they slaughter them.
Karno,

Are you finally ready to give up your "Twins are overrated" crusade? What is it going to take? Next time you print out the 'adjusted baseball standings,' you know, those of Baseball Prospectus (:rolleyes: ), you should use them as toilet paper. That's about all they're good for.

TomParrish79
06-16-2004, 11:40 PM
What kills me is that the expos cant score at all, but when we play them, they will decide to hit.


I hate the Twins, lucky bastards.

doublem23
06-16-2004, 11:43 PM
Today is June 16. We're down 1/2 game.

Come on.

kittle42
06-16-2004, 11:49 PM
I just dont see how they can possibly keep it up if they continue to get outscored. It just doesnt happen. I dont even know how to rationalize it. It's incredible. I still cant see them winning the division though. Hopefully when they play a tougher schedule down the stretch, the better teams wont put up with their bull and they slaughter them.
I agree. Didn't the same thing happen to KC last year?

beckett21
06-16-2004, 11:52 PM
Anyone who thought or thinks that this is going to be easy is sadly mistaken.

The Twins just have a knack of finding ways to win. Don't think they weren't saying the same things about us last night after the Sox comeback win.

The Twins are a very good team. No matter how much we want to say it's BS how they win games....they just keep winning. Take away Rivas' HR, they probably find another way to win tonight. If we are counting on the Expos to help us, then we may as well just pack it in.

I hate them, but I respect them. They have earned that, no matter how infuriating they are.

I do get the feeling that it is different this year however. They seem to be taking us seriously more than ever before as a force to be reckoned with. It's gonna be a dogfight, and feeling sorry for ourselves won't help at all. As long as we take care of OUR business, it shouldn't matter what they do.

All we need to worry about is us.

SoxxoS
06-16-2004, 11:54 PM
We can take solace that we are the better team, and this time there is no manager to screw this up.

StepsInSC
06-17-2004, 12:09 AM
I cannot think of a better example of why INSTANT REPLAY must be brought to MLB than the Vidro non-HR.
Ugh please tell me that was supposed to be in teal.

Baseball games are slow enough as is.

Furthermore I like the human aspect of the game...not just in baseball but in every sport. Yea it sucks that it happened in the Twins, but still....

jcirish85
06-17-2004, 12:15 AM
Today is June 16. We're down 1/2 game.

Come on.
It's June 16 and how are those lucky little @#$%$#$ still even in the race? Why doesn't this team ever lose. They always find a way to win, even if its by missed call by the ump or they have to break someones hand at home plate or control the weather at their stadium. They are way too lucky. I think I am becoming more anti-Twin than anti-Cub.

jeremyb1
06-17-2004, 12:30 AM
Karno,

Are you finally ready to give up your "Twins are overrated" crusade? What is it going to take? Next time you print out the 'adjusted baseball standings,' you know, those of Baseball Prospectus (:rolleyes: ), you should use them as toilet paper. That's about all they're good for.

Haha. I think it's hilarious because games like this lead me to believe more than ever that the Twins are overrated.

SOXintheBURGH
06-17-2004, 12:39 AM
It's June 16 and how are those lucky little @#$%$#$ still even in the race? Why doesn't this team ever lose. They always find a way to win, even if its by missed call by the ump or they have to break someones hand at home plate or control the weather at their stadium. They are way too lucky. I think I am becoming more anti-Twin than anti-Cub.

I can at least take solace that I don't have to look at Twins hats and shirts all over the country..

MRKARNO
06-17-2004, 12:49 AM
At 8-3, Juan Rincon has a lot more wins than almost every starter in the league. And I thought 10 wins was a ton from a releiver, he might get 15 (hopefully he gets 0 more. )

mdep524
06-17-2004, 01:06 AM
Ugh please tell me that was supposed to be in teal.

Baseball games are slow enough as is.

Furthermore I like the human aspect of the game...not just in baseball but in every sport. Yea it sucks that it happened in the Twins, but still....
Why not have some instant replay? Not the slow process of the NFL, but just one official who sits up in the press box and watches the game (on TV, with replays) and can overtunr black-and-white calls (mainly only fair/foul balls- NEVER balls/strikes or out/safe calls). If an ump's call is clearly wrong, the official overturns it, and all parties move on. That's not a time waster.

DSpivack
06-17-2004, 01:13 AM
Have to go with the Twins hate-but-respect line. And yes, do hate the Cubs more. The Cubs are the antithesis of Minnesota; one team just finds ways to win, the other just finds ways to lose.

The respectful hatred I feel for the Twins just makes all the more excited at the chance to dethrone the three-time NL Central Champs. Their talent might be less in the pitching department and in the hitting department, but let me bring in a football term: intangibles. You know how the 2001 Bears were so-so on offense, good at defense- yet what was their best quality? Luck. The Twins are the same way.

iftypofixit
06-17-2004, 01:22 AM
Have we already forgot the Frank Thomas homer in the first game of the Marlins series? That shouldn't have been ruled a HR and we most likely should have lost that game. These things happen and shouldn't get us upset. I do dislike the Twins and I will enjoy us beating up on them at the end of the month.

MRKARNO
06-17-2004, 01:26 AM
Have we already forgot the Frank Thomas homer in the first game of the Marlins series? That shouldn't have been ruled a HR and we most likely should have lost that game. These things happen and shouldn't get us upset. I do dislike the Twins and I will enjoy us beating up on them at the end of the month.
Frank's home mightve missed by a few inches at most if it did. Rivas's homer was foul, not in play like Frank's ball mightve been, and was 5 feet foul too.

jcirish85
06-17-2004, 01:41 AM
I can at least take solace that I don't have to look at Twins hats and shirts all over the country..yes, but you can look in the paper every day and read how the cubs blew it. then you can read how the twins somehow manage to pull out another win in remarkable fashion. then you look at the AL central and see THE CUBS ARE NOT IN THE AL CENTRAL AND THE TWINS ARE IN FIRST PLACE!.

elrod
06-17-2004, 02:54 AM
I'm more bothered by the Twins winning than the Sox losing. The Sox just lost to an ace who was dealing. Sure, we could have mustered a late rally, with or without Frank. But Pavano just beat us straight up. Might as well tip your cap and move on. But the Twins winning in ridiculous fashion night after night is just aggravating. They actually have a higher OPS after the 7th inning than they do in innings 1-6, and by a large margin. There is really no statistical reason for that. A team that hits well late in games should also hit well early - since starting pitchers are not as effective as late relievers. Minnesota leads the AL in OPS after the 7th inning. The Yankees are second. Yet the Yankees still have a higher OPS in innings 1-6 than they do in 7+. So they hit during the entire game, not just late. Other teams have a higher OPS late than early but because of bad pitching haven't converted it into late-innings wins (Royals). I can understand the mentality of the Twins, that they never give up. We're that way now too, fortunately. But if you have the ability to hit late in games, against tough late relievers, you should also have the ability to hit early, against tiring starters. Ironically, the White Sox actually had a higher OPS in innings 7+ than innings 1-6 in 2003 (and very high for the AL). Too bad we didn't convert it into wins. Was the bullpen that bad? Not really. Maybe we got a lot of runs in garbage time. The Twins sure haven't in 2004. Even their "close and late" OPS is almost identical to ours. Hmm. Maybe they ARE just lucky.

ndgt10
06-17-2004, 05:14 AM
The Twins are like a bad case of Herpes...They seem to go away, but they always come back. There is just no way of getting rid of them.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2004, 09:45 AM
The Twins are like a bad case of Herpes...They seem to go away, but they always come back. There is just no way of getting rid of them.

Best. Post. Ever.

Viva Magglio
06-17-2004, 09:55 AM
"After reviewing the play the ball is indeed foul. by rule that is strike 2. montreal is not charged with an out when they are up to bat in the bottom of the inning"
Thank you, Ed Hochuli.

Viva Magglio
06-17-2004, 09:57 AM
The Twins are like a bad case of Herpes...They seem to go away, but they always come back. There is just no way of getting rid of them.
Just beat Twinks head-to-head, like we have been doing so far (4-2).

3Peater
06-17-2004, 11:31 AM
No Frank Thomas? Konerko instead? How about neutering the offense some more!

The AL/no DH hurts the AL. How about when NL teams come to AL parks, they make the pitcher bat anyway,but allow the DH for the AL team? Ridiculous.

What's going on with Schoeneweis? 3 straight bad outings, with lots of hits. Is he in a dead arm situation? Is he just being discovered as no good?

sendimjoey
06-17-2004, 11:49 AM
Their talent might be less in the pitching department and in the hitting department, but let me bring in a football term: intangibles. You know how the 2001 Bears were so-so on offense, good at defense- yet what was their best quality? Luck. The Twins are the same way.
I wish the Twins would start playing like the 2002 Bears.

No Frank Thomas? Konerko instead? How about neutering the offense some more!

The AL/no DH hurts the AL. How about when NL teams come to AL parks, they make the pitcher bat anyway,but allow the DH for the AL team? Ridiculous.

What's going on with Schoeneweis? 3 straight bad outings, with lots of hits. Is he in a dead arm situation? Is he just being discovered as no good?
I think the National League should just get over their superiority and adopt the DH already. Who wants to see pitchers bat anyway? Who wants to see them hurt themselves either batting (Andy Pettite) or running the bases (Mark Prior, among others)? I don't have to watch Payton Manning get burned playing free safety to watch him brilliantly play quarterback, so why should I have to watch Randy Johnson swing lamely at three pitches before trudging back to the dugout? Oh, I forgot, having the pitcher bat elevates NL baseball strategy to rocket science.

As for Schoney, I agree, he isn't as sharp as he was a month ago. I think that's some of the hidden value of a fifth starter -- getting Schoney and Loiaza the occasional extra day between starts. Buehrle can handle the load, but those two guys could use a little extra rest now and then.

Blob
06-17-2004, 12:16 PM
Have we already forgot the Frank Thomas homer in the first game of the Marlins series? That shouldn't have been ruled a HR and we most likely should have lost that game. These things happen and shouldn't get us upset. I do dislike the Twins and I will enjoy us beating up on them at the end of the month.I agree...these kinds of calls go both ways all the time.

Besides the only way we can take care of the Twins is by beating them when we play them!

greenpeach
06-17-2004, 12:19 PM
Viva:

Reminds me of last year where the Twins came back to win after the Orioles catcher dropped the third strike and supposedly final out.

or the key game with Anaheim where the runner was dead to rights, out at home to end the game only he slides, breaking Benji Molina's wrist. Molina (naturally) dropped the ball so the tying run scored but then amazingly the ball started rolling up the line towards first base, instead of going back towards the screen where the pitcher was backing up the play and Shannon Stewart came all the way around to win it.

I don't know maybe the 'baseball gods,' got pissed when baseball tried to contract them.

Lip
I had no sympathy for Molina. If memory serves me right, he had the ball in plenty of time to tag the runner, but tried a swipe tag to avoid physical contact. His half-hearted attempt resulted in a broken wrist for him & a win for the Twins. He got what he deserved. The spin afterwards was that the game really didn't matter to the Angels because they were already out of playoff contention. Gee, whatever happened to integrity of the game ??

Win1ForMe
06-17-2004, 12:46 PM
Haha. I think it's hilarious because games like this lead me to believe more than ever that the Twins are overrated.
Yeah, I mean this is only the third year in a row where they're winning these types of games. But your argument makes sense.

Lip Man 1
06-17-2004, 01:00 PM
Viva:

The Sox are 4-3 against the Twins this year not 4-2, perhaps it was a typo.

Lip

Skorch
06-17-2004, 01:01 PM
The way I see it this basically neutralizes the Twins May 4th 3-4 loss to Seattle in 16 innings on two bad calls. The first bad call was Koskie being called out at the plate for the go-ahead run in the ninth (which had him so pissed the normally reserved Koskie got himself ejected). The second blown call was Randy Winn clearly being tagged out before touching home for the game-winning run. I didn't complain (much) then, because I knew we'd probably get a call our way later on in the season. Here it is. That's baseball.

SpringfldFan
06-17-2004, 01:51 PM
I would rather be in our situation, even if we were two or three games out. The Twins know how to win games with smoke and mirrors. That apparently isn't luck - somehow they know how to do it and they will continue to do it. However, that kind of gameplan doesn't cut it at crunch time against the big boys. Over the last three years they have accomplished nothing of consequence more then we have. They have one the division. Big freakin deal, I already forget who the other division winners were last year. The Sox, on the other hand - with their talent - at least have a chance of taking it all. I don't think the Twins do.

CHISOXFAN13
06-17-2004, 02:00 PM
Yeah, I mean this is only the third year in a row where they're winning these types of games. But your argument makes sense.


The fact that the Twins three hige comback wins late have come against the Mets, Blue Jays and Expos tell me thet aren't as good as their record.

Think they'll do that against their schedule in August and September?

Doubtful

3Peater
06-17-2004, 02:18 PM
I would rather be in our situation, even if we were two or three games out. The Twins know how to win games with smoke and mirrors. That apparently isn't luck - somehow they know how to do it and they will continue to do it. However, that kind of gameplan doesn't cut it at crunch time against the big boys. Over the last three years they have accomplished nothing of consequence more then we have. They have one the division. Big freakin deal, I already forget who the other division winners were last year. The Sox, on the other hand - with their talent - at least have a chance of taking it all. I don't think the Twins do.
Have accomplished nothing of consequence more than we have.

So winning the division means nothing? Mn got to the ALCS 2 years ago, which is more of consequence than the Sox.

The Twins' gameplan won at crunch time last year, too. Maybe that's why Guillen is trying to get some of the players to buy into an occasional bunt or moving a guy over in tight games.

nasox
06-17-2004, 02:23 PM
once again, win 40, lose 40

that is all

GoSox2K3
06-17-2004, 02:43 PM
Back to Second Place due to......


...the Sox getting shut out by Florida. Also remember that we pissed away a few games by bringing Koch and sticking with him despite his futility.

I'm just as infuriated as you guys over the Twins non-stop lucky breaks. But, in the end the Sox are in control of their own destiny.

ma-gaga
06-17-2004, 03:34 PM
I'm more bothered by the Twins winning than the Sox losing. The Sox just lost to an ace who was dealing. Sure, we could have mustered a late rally, with or without Frank. But Pavano just beat us straight up. Might as well tip your cap and move on. But the Twins winning in ridiculous fashion night after night is just aggravating. They actually have a higher OPS after the 7th inning than they do in innings 1-6, and by a large margin. There is really no statistical reason for that. A team that hits well late in games should also hit well early - since starting pitchers are not as effective as late relievers. Minnesota leads the AL in OPS after the 7th inning. The Yankees are second. Yet the Yankees still have a higher OPS in innings 1-6 than they do in 7+. So they hit during the entire game, not just late. Other teams have a higher OPS late than early but because of bad pitching haven't converted it into late-innings wins (Royals). I can understand the mentality of the Twins, that they never give up. We're that way now too, fortunately. But if you have the ability to hit late in games, against tough late relievers, you should also have the ability to hit early, against tiring starters. Ironically, the White Sox actually had a higher OPS in innings 7+ than innings 1-6 in 2003 (and very high for the AL). Too bad we didn't convert it into wins. Was the bullpen that bad? Not really. Maybe we got a lot of runs in garbage time. The Twins sure haven't in 2004. Even their "close and late" OPS is almost identical to ours. Hmm. Maybe they ARE just lucky.
Where do you get your wonderful splits???

Seriously. I can't find them easily at ESPN, Yahoo! has a pretty good one at their fantasy site, but I want to see them ranked by team OPS after the 7th inning...