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View Full Version : Top Pick Josh Fields signs today...


Randar68
06-16-2004, 04:14 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040616soxfields,1,63572.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

As expected...

mcfish
06-16-2004, 04:17 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040616soxfields,1,63572.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

As expected...
I was just going to start a thread on this because I heard it on ESPN 1000. They said he would be sent to "High A Winston-Salem." Here's a link to the story on whitesox.com:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_press_release.jsp?ymd=20040616&content_id=772027&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp

Iguana775
06-16-2004, 04:18 PM
Sweet!

Now why can't the NFL picks sign this fast!!?? lol

Fungo
06-16-2004, 04:33 PM
Nice. Donny Lucy as well.


Who do you guys like in the CWS? I've always been somewhat of a fan of LSU baseball, but I think I'm leaning towards Arkansas.

owensmouth
06-16-2004, 04:33 PM
Anyone know if the terms include the catchy little phrase "No More Football"?

Randar68
06-16-2004, 04:36 PM
Anyone know if the terms include the catchy little phrase "No More Football"?
Terms have not been released, but he's not much of an NFL prospect at only 6'2" tall.

SEALgep
06-16-2004, 04:38 PM
Terms have not been released, but he's not much of an NFL prospect at only 6'2" tall.He's said before that he plans to focus solely on baseball.

Randar68
06-16-2004, 04:40 PM
He's said before that he plans to focus solely on baseball.
Yes, that is also true (but every football player that turns pro in baseball says that, so it's not worth much on its own)

knocko94
06-16-2004, 04:41 PM
Terms have not been released, but he's not much of an NFL prospect at only 6'2" tall.

Rex Grossman is only 6'1''. Is he a NFL prospect?

Randar68
06-16-2004, 04:43 PM
Rex Grossman is only 6'1''. Is he a NFL prospect?
I'm no NFL guru, so take it for what it's worth. He's just not thought to have much pro potential at QB in football. Height has been one reason given over and over.

If you want to be a smart-ass, pick smarter battles.

Jjav829
06-16-2004, 04:46 PM
I'm no NFL guru, so take it for what it's worth. He's just not thought to have much pro potential at QB in football. Height has been one reason given over and over.

If you want to be a smart-ass, pick smarter battles.
If he wanted to go to the NFL, I doubt height would stop him. Hopefully he is fully committed to baseball and not Drew Henson-ish.

knocko94
06-16-2004, 04:47 PM
I'm just saying if he ever really had a chance in the NFL, his height would not be a huge detriment because there are plenty of qbs that aren't 6'4".

Dadawg_77
06-16-2004, 04:48 PM
Sweet!

Now why can't the NFL picks sign this fast!!?? lol
NFL picks have tons of more leverage then baseball picks and much shorter career span.

Dadawg_77
06-16-2004, 04:49 PM
If he wanted to go to the NFL, I doubt height would stop him. Hopefully he is fully committed to baseball and not Drew Henson-ish.
Well Henson was fully committer to baseball till he realized he wasn't go to make it. If Fields can't cut it, does it really doesn't matter if he goes back to football?

MRKARNO
06-16-2004, 04:51 PM
Well Henson was fully committer to baseball till he realized he wasn't go to make it. If Fields can't cut it, does it really doesn't matter if he goes back to football?
Henson was a much better QB than Fields. I doubt Fields would be a high draft pick with any chance of starting if he entered the NFL Draft, unlike Henson who would have been a pretty high pick. Fields knows he's a much better baseball player than football played which is why he entered the baseball draft.

jabrch
06-16-2004, 04:54 PM
Kudos to the scouting department and to KW for getting so many of these guys signed so quickly. This draft is looking better and better every day as these guys sign. Next thing is to see them in Sox affiliate's uniforms!

rdivaldi
06-16-2004, 04:55 PM
Have to give the White Sox props for signing picks this year. They've done a great job, I think that's something like 23 signed, including all 1st, 2nd rounders and all of the sandwich picks.

Here's hoping some of these guys turn into great players...:gulp:

soxrme
06-16-2004, 04:56 PM
Could this be the young 3rd baseman the Royals are looking for??:cool:

Randar68
06-16-2004, 05:05 PM
Could this be the young 3rd baseman the Royals are looking for??:cool:
Players cannot be traded until 12 months from when they sign.

wilburaga
06-16-2004, 05:11 PM
The Sox have thus doubled the Josh Fields count in our minor league system. The 2004 1st rounder joins the pride of Hungry Horse, Montana, the 2001 23rd round righty hurler, as the only two Josh Fields in our system.

KW may be tempted to balance the books for the Berry/Barry fiasco by doing a Josh Fields bait and switch in trade negotiations.


W

jabrch
06-16-2004, 05:14 PM
Players cannot be traded until 12 months from when they sign.

So we can trade Billy Koch whenever we want?

mendozaln
06-16-2004, 05:39 PM
The Sox have thus doubled the Josh Fields count in our minor league system. The 2004 1st rounder joins the pride of Hungry Horse, Montana, the 2001 23rd round righty hurler, as the only two Josh Fields in our system.
Two Josh Fields, two Carlos Lees... No doubt about it, KW's building a bizarro team. Now where's he going to find another Jeff Bajenaru? :smile:

doublem23
06-16-2004, 05:44 PM
Rex Grossman is only 6'1''. Is he a NFL prospect?
Fingers crossed. :)

gogo59
06-16-2004, 05:50 PM
Anyone have news about Wes Whisler? I believe he's the only other of the top 9 unsigned so far.

Also, I wonder if putting Fields at W-S means Andy Gonzales goes back for another half-year at Low A. Too bad. The Sox were high on him at one point, and he started this year strong offensively. But he's cooled off in the past month or two and moved from SS to 3B. I assume he's #3 on the depth charts at 3B now with the addition of Fields.

maurice
06-16-2004, 06:00 PM
I wonder if putting Fields at W-S means Andy Gonzales goes back for another half-year at Low A. I think they'll move Gonzalez to 2B for W-S.

They can always move Lopez back to 2B and Gonzalez back to SS, but it looks like they prefer Lopez at SS.

A. Cavatica
06-16-2004, 08:45 PM
Just thinking about the bias against short quarterbacks...Doug Flutie was a hell of a QB, but he was dogged by that everywhere he went. Did any football GMs read Moneyball?

Champ Summers
06-16-2004, 08:58 PM
I'm hoping for Joe Borchard part 2. Why? Joe Borchard part one is going to be a great player...

HomerCoach
06-16-2004, 09:06 PM
I'm hoping for Joe Borchard part 2. Why? Joe Borchard part one is going to be a great player...
is that supposed to be in teal, or are you insane?:dunno:

Daver
06-16-2004, 09:10 PM
is that supposed to be in teal, or are you insane?:dunno:
What, exactly, are you basing your insanity diagnosis on?

Soxfest
06-16-2004, 09:10 PM
I can see Crede gone in a deal, I like the Fields deal

A. Cavatica
06-16-2004, 09:15 PM
What, exactly, are you basing your insanity diagnosis on?
I'm guessing it's Borchard's advanced age for a "prospect" and his low on-base percentage. I suppose he might be a great player if you consider Rob Deer a great player.

SoxxoS
06-16-2004, 09:33 PM
I'm guessing it's Borchard's advanced age for a "prospect" and his low on-base percentage. I suppose he might be a great player if you consider Rob Deer a great player.
I'll take Adam Dunn.

SoxxoS
06-16-2004, 09:45 PM
Terms have not been released, but he's not much of an NFL prospect at only 6'2" tall.
I think he was a pretty good NFL prospect if he would have solely concentrated on football. 6'2" is a fine size for an NFL QB, although not ideal. It is when you get to the 5 foot 10's and 11's where they are usually unable to perform.

He had good numbers, good size, and an excellent arm. One could argue he was just a tad below Borchard as a football prospect (As Borchard wasn't a 1st rounder as widely believed). I would think he would be a 5-6th round choice. Pretty good in the grand scheme of things.

But a no-brainer compared to a 1st round baseball pick.

A. Cavatica
06-16-2004, 09:48 PM
I'll take Adam Dunn.Adam Dunn was a legitimate big league hitter at 21. There's no comparison between the two.

SoxxoS
06-16-2004, 10:11 PM
Adam Dunn was a legitimate big league hitter at 21. There's no comparison between the two.
Age is not a factor in Dunn's case, as he has actually digressed from his rookie year. Age doesn't mean anything if you don't improve.

A. Cavatica
06-16-2004, 10:37 PM
Age is not a factor in Dunn's case, as he has actually digressed from his rookie year. Age doesn't mean anything if you don't improve.That's the stupidest post of the week, and not just because you meant to say "regressed".

For the record, Dunn's career OPS is .884, which is pretty damn good. His OPS this season is 1.007, which is terrific. I think he's over that regression thing.

Most players who break in with authority at 21 become great players. Most players who break in at 25 or older don't. Not all players' careers trend this way, but Bill James wrote that if he could only use one statistic to predict whether a player would improve, he'd choose age.

Borchard's a year older than Dunn and has 3 career home runs to Dunn's 90. Like I said, there's no comparison.

HomerCoach
06-16-2004, 10:49 PM
What, exactly, are you basing your insanity diagnosis on?
Not a diagnosis, just a question. I will never be in a position to "diagnose"...I'm an idiot! But I'm wondering how "sane" anyone can be to say that a 25 year old minor leaguer batting .282 will be a "great player." No malicious intent, just a futile attempt at humor. :tongue: Forgive me Daver :worship:

SoxxoS
06-16-2004, 11:49 PM
That's the stupidest post of the week, and not just because you meant to say "regressed".

For the record, Dunn's career OPS is .884, which is pretty damn good. His OPS this season is 1.007, which is terrific. I think he's over that regression thing.

Most players who break in with authority at 21 become great players. Most players who break in at 25 or older don't. Not all players' careers trend this way, but Bill James wrote that if he could only use one statistic to predict whether a player would improve, he'd choose age.

Borchard's a year older than Dunn and has 3 career home runs to Dunn's 90. Like I said, there's no comparison.Sorry, English major.

Keep in mind I am not a Borchard supporter, and I don't think he is going to be very good. I said I would take Adam Dunn because Adam Dunn is the player I would like to see Joe Borchard to be.

Let's break down your brilliant post.

Last I checked, the baseball season wasn't over. So that 1.007 OPS about 25 games before the all-star break really doesn't prove anything. Also, take into account that Dunn is a 1st half hitter. He must be over the regression.

The age thing is obvious. The younger the players show their talent and get to the big leagues, the better they obviously are. But if you are comparing raw tools, Borchard has all that Dunn has. At least, that is what John Sickles thought: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1371704

I thought we were talking about who Joe Borchard could mirror in the majors, so comparing homers doesn't make much sense as Joe Borchard hasn't played in the majors nearly as much. It is obvious Dunn has produced much more at a big league level, but that isn't what we are comparing, are we?

And we know that Bill James is the be-all/end-all in baseball. Borchard should just hang it up if that is what Bill James said. After all, there can't be an exception to the rule, especially with a guy that started his career late and had injury problems.

Once again, let me repeat that I would take Adam Dunn, b/c he is obviously a player that everyone would love to see Joe Borchard emulate.

gosox3072
06-17-2004, 02:21 AM
Are we having a debate on wether we would want adam dunn or joe borchard? If we are this might be the stupidest arguement EVER!

Adam Dunn-Legitamate star NOW
Joe Borchard-Could be a star

There is no comparison, Adam Dunn is WAY better.

delben91
06-17-2004, 08:10 AM
Anyone have news about Wes Whisler? I believe he's the only other of the top 9 unsigned so far.

Also, I wonder if putting Fields at W-S means Andy Gonzales goes back for another half-year at Low A. Too bad. The Sox were high on him at one point, and he started this year strong offensively. But he's cooled off in the past month or two and moved from SS to 3B. I assume he's #3 on the depth charts at 3B now with the addition of Fields.

I read in the Tribune that the Sox have signed 10 of their top 12 picks. Among the holdouts were a player whose high school graduation hadn't occured yet, and a player whose team was still playing in the College World Series. Would Whisler be the latter player?

SoxxoS
06-17-2004, 10:27 AM
Are we having a debate on wether we would want adam dunn or joe borchard? If we are this might be the stupidest arguement EVER!

Adam Dunn-Legitamate star NOW
Joe Borchard-Could be a star

There is no comparison, Adam Dunn is WAY better.
Reread the thread. I stated I would like for Joe Borchard to be Adam Dunn. They we constantly compared coming up through the minors, so some people think that Borchard can be Dunn-like. Do I think he will be? No. But he does have the tools to be.

SEALgep
06-17-2004, 10:36 AM
I read in the Sun-Times that the Sox have signed 10 of their top 12 picks. Among the holdouts were a player whose high school graduation hadn't occured yet, and a player whose team was still playing in the College World Series. Would Whisler be the latter player?Whisler hasn't signed yet I don't think. The college player is Adam Ricks of the University of Miami. I think there may be three that haven't signed yet, but still pretty impressive. Especially if we get those three as well.

Randar68
06-17-2004, 11:43 AM
Most players who break in at 25 or older don't.

*COUGH* Maggs *COUGH*

Borchard was 21, when drafted out of college and more raw than your average college draft pick due to the 2-sport issue. Do you guys really know the time-requirements to play D1 football let alone to play baseball too? 25 is old for a HS-drafted player, but Borchard was only slightly more refined than a HS player coming out of the draft, despite being a beast physically. Patience is the key, and having nagging injuries for the past 2 years (still not clear if this is a bad trend or just a freak run of bad luck)

Not all players' careers trend this way, but Bill James wrote that if he could only use one statistic to predict whether a player would improve, he'd choose age.

Ahh yes, applying a large-numbers idea to a single sample. Great plan

Randar68
06-17-2004, 11:47 AM
I read in the Sun-Times that the Sox have signed 10 of their top 12 picks. Among the holdouts were a player whose high school graduation hadn't occured yet, and a player whose team was still playing in the College World Series. Would Whisler be the latter player?Of the top 10-round picks, here who has signed and hasn't from BA with an update added by me. (Signed players in bold)

Josh Fields 3b Oklahoma State U. (bonus reported at $1,550,000)
Tyler Lumsden lhp Clemson U.
Gio Gonzalez lhp Monsignor Pace HS, Miami FL
Wes Whisler lhp UCLA
Donny Lucy c Stanford U.
Ray Liotta lhp Gulf Coast (Fla.) CC FL
Grant Hansen rhp Oklahoma City U.
Lucas Harrell rhp Ozark (Mo.) HS
Brandon Allen of Montgomery (Texas) HS
Adam Russell rhp Ohio U.
Tim Murphey lhp Glacock County HS, Gibson, Ga.
Nick Lemon rhp Brigham Young U.
Ryan McCarthy 3b UCLA
Adam Ricks 2b U. of MiamiFL

delben91
06-17-2004, 12:01 PM
Of the top 10-round picks, here who has signed and hasn't from BA with an update added by me. (Signed players in bold)

Josh Fields 3b Oklahoma State U. (bonus reported at $1,550,000)
Tyler Lumsden lhp Clemson U.
Gio Gonzalez lhp Monsignor Pace HS, Miami FL
Wes Whisler lhp UCLA
Donny Lucy c Stanford U.
Ray Liotta lhp Gulf Coast (Fla.) CC FL
Grant Hansen rhp Oklahoma City U.
Lucas Harrell rhp Ozark (Mo.) HS
Brandon Allen of Montgomery (Texas) HS
Adam Russell rhp Ohio U.
Tim Murphey lhp Glacock County HS, Gibson, Ga.
Nick Lemon rhp Brigham Young U.
Ryan McCarthy 3b UCLA
Adam Ricks 2b U. of MiamiFL


Well, then not surprisingly, DeLuca of the Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca17.htm) could use a little help.

The Sox have signed 12 of their top 14 picks and 27 overall.

As can the Tribune. (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040616soxbits,1,5968686.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

The Sox announced the signing of their top pick in last week's amateur draft, Oklahoma State third baseman Josh Fields. The Sox have signed 12 of their top 14 picks, with one playing in the College World Series and the other finishing up high school.

3Pete
06-17-2004, 12:15 PM
Borchard is nothing, never will be. Wasted draft pick. Get Reed up here.

Randar68
06-17-2004, 12:19 PM
Well, then not surprisingly, DeLuca of the Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca17.htm) could use a little help.



As can the Tribune. (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-040616soxbits,1,5968686.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)
12 of 14 may be true, as many non-1st rounders aren't announced or made public right-away, but none of the unsigned players is in HS, making you wonder who the heck they talked to.

Randar68
06-17-2004, 12:20 PM
Borchard is nothing, never will be. Wasted draft pick. Get Reed up here.
How profound.

:troll

Randar68
06-17-2004, 12:32 PM
Of the top 10-round picks, here who has signed and hasn't from BA with an update added by me. (Signed players in bold)

Josh Fields 3b Oklahoma State U. (bonus reported at $1,550,000)
Tyler Lumsden lhp Clemson U.
Gio Gonzalez lhp Monsignor Pace HS, Miami FL
Wes Whisler lhp UCLA
Donny Lucy c Stanford U.
Ray Liotta lhp Gulf Coast (Fla.) CC FL
Grant Hansen rhp Oklahoma City U.
Lucas Harrell rhp Ozark (Mo.) HS
Brandon Allen of Montgomery (Texas) HS
Adam Russell rhp Ohio U.
Tim Murphey lhp Glacock County HS, Gibson, Ga.
Nick Lemon rhp Brigham Young U.
Ryan McCarthy 3b UCLA
Adam Ricks 2b U. of MiamiFL
To update this, Adam Russell has signed and will report to Great Falls as well. Whisler may also have signed and is waiting for school to finish before reporting.

MarkEdward
06-17-2004, 01:28 PM
Just thinking about the bias against short quarterbacks...Doug Flutie was a hell of a QB, but he was dogged by that everywhere he went. Did any football GMs read Moneyball?
Here's an article on stats and how NFL coaches are using them:
http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2487784

And here's a site that takes a stathead-type look at football:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/

A. Cavatica
06-17-2004, 10:35 PM
Sorry, English major.

Keep in mind I am not a Borchard supporter, and I don't think he is going to be very good. I said I would take Adam Dunn because Adam Dunn is the player I would like to see Joe Borchard to be.

The age thing is obvious. The younger the players show their talent and get to the big leagues, the better they obviously are. But if you are comparing raw tools, Borchard has all that Dunn has. At least, that is what John Sickles thought: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1371704

I thought we were talking about who Joe Borchard could mirror in the majors, so comparing homers doesn't make much sense as Joe Borchard hasn't played in the majors nearly as much. It is obvious Dunn has produced much more at a big league level, but that isn't what we are comparing, are we?

And we know that Bill James is the be-all/end-all in baseball. Borchard should just hang it up if that is what Bill James said. After all, there can't be an exception to the rule, especially with a guy that started his career late and had injury problems.

Once again, let me repeat that I would take Adam Dunn, b/c he is obviously a player that everyone would love to see Joe Borchard emulate.

OK, let's clear this up. I think we agree on several points.

1. We remember the 2002 article where Sickels cited Dunn as a best-case scenario for Borchard. However, Sickels predicted that Dunn would be better, because Dunn had already experienced success in the majors (as opposed to AA ball), is a year younger, walks more, and did not have a broken foot.

2. Both players are now two years older.

3. Neither player has made a great leap forward since the article was written. Both players regressed for a while, but are back to where they had been.

4. A player who comes up earlier generally has a longer career and a higher peak, but exceptions can occur.

5. We would both take Dunn over Borchard "because Adam Dunn is the player [we] would like to see Joe Borchard to be".

However, you still seem to hold out some hope that Borchard could become as good as Dunn. That's just not going to happen. Borchard's 25 now. He took a long time getting over his injury, had trouble adjusting to AAA pitching, and hasn't improved his walk rate. There are no signs that he will be one of those rare exceptions.

Borchard's zenith is probably going to fall short of Dunn's nadir. Even though Dunn batted .215 last season, he walked 74 times and hit 27 home runs, for an .819 OPS. I would be pleasantly surprised to see Borchard match that.