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View Full Version : Billy Koch to setup role for now ... hold yer breath though


ode to veeck
06-14-2004, 08:47 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-toni13.html

the "spend what it takes" cubtimes article also had this quote:

"He also plans to keep Billy Koch in a setup role 'until he gets back on track and gets his confidence back. As soon as he does, he'll close again,' Guillen said. 'He still throws in the 90s, and if he throws strikes, he'll be fine. It's like everyone in the big leagues -- if you don't throw strikes, you'll be crushed.' "

Should we believe him?, Like we believed JM on benching Royce two years ago? Absolutely, Ozzie's no fool and no tinkerer either. Billy ain't doing the job as a closer. I just don't like the " ... as soon as he does, he'll close again" part. Frikkin' scary it is, like when the As fans knew he would lose it when he came in that game in Oakland a few days back ...

beckett21
06-14-2004, 08:52 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-toni13.html

the "spend what it takes" cubtimes article also had this quote:

"He also plans to keep Billy Koch in a setup role 'until he gets back on track and gets his confidence back. As soon as he does, he'll close again,' Guillen said. 'He still throws in the 90s, and if he throws strikes, he'll be fine. It's like everyone in the big leagues -- if you don't throw strikes, you'll be crushed.' "

Should we believe him?, Like we believed JM on benching Royce two years ago? Absolutely, Ozzie's no fool and no tinkerer either. Billy ain't doing the job as a closer. I just don't like the " ... as soon as he does, he'll close again" part. Frikkin' scary it is, like when the As fans knew he would lose it when he came in that game in Oakland a few days back ...
I have no problem with this provided Koch is:

1) *Setting up* someone else for mop-up duty in a game we are down by 10 runs or more;

*OR*

2) *closing* the games in which we are already down by 10 runs or more.

I am more than happy to see him in these set-up/closing roles.

Other than that, stay on the bench.

jeremyb1
06-14-2004, 08:58 PM
What's ridiculous about this is that most setup situations are just as critical as closing situations. Koch can't close so we're going to start putting him into one run games in the 7th or 8th?! Hopefully this is a nice way of saying mop up duty.

Jjav829
06-14-2004, 09:00 PM
I have no problem with this provided Koch is:

1) *Setting up* someone else for mop-up duty in a game we are down by 10 runs or more;

*OR*

2) *closing* the games in which we are already down by 10 runs or more.

I am more than happy to see him in these set-up/closing roles.

Other than that, stay on the bench.I was surprised that Ozzie didn't bring him in yesterday. I guess he just wanted to get the W and go home, but that seemed like a situation where you may want to give Koch a chance.

But hey, look at it this way. At least now when Koch is blowing leads, we'll have an extra inning to try to get the runs back. :smile:

RKMeibalane
06-14-2004, 09:02 PM
But hey, look at it this way. At least now when Koch is blowing leads, we'll have an extra inning to try to get the runs back. :smile:
That must be what Ozzie is thinking.

gosox3072
06-14-2004, 09:07 PM
Id like to see koch come in as a situational pitcher where he comes in to get one guy out. He might better if he doesnt have to get 3 guys out and if ozzie can dicide who he can get out.

Then again he cant do much worse.

SoxxoS
06-14-2004, 09:09 PM
If this clown was making $800,000 rather than 5 million, this wouldn't even be up for debate. His ass would have been gone already.

It is a damn shame money is playing a role in this situation. You don't do the job, you usually don't have a job anymore. Demoting him to a teeny bit less important job is a crock of poop.

JR, KW and/or Ozzie needs to wake up and just relase him. He will do no good. Even if he does start performing a little better...NOBODY should have confidence in him come possible playoff time.

Do you want Billy Koch closing out game 7? Me neither.

Do you want Billy Koch of 2002 closing game 7? Me neither.

CyYoung5621
06-14-2004, 09:10 PM
First things first. If I was Ozzie Id say, "You better shave that nasty thing you call a beard or your never pitching again."

Beckett21 is exactly right.

Cubbiesuck13
06-14-2004, 09:10 PM
What's ridiculous about this is that most setup situations are just as critical as closing situations. Koch can't close so we're going to start putting him into one run games in the 7th or 8th?! Hopefully this is a nice way of saying mop up duty.
I have always heard that pitching in the 7th or even the 8th is nothing like pitching the 9th. I heard some pitchers would rather pitch in the 8th with a 1 run lead than the 9th with a 3 run lead. There has to be something to that. Some guys want no part of closing a game simply because of the preassure. I think that Kotch could be a very good 7th inning pitcher.

batmanZoSo
06-14-2004, 09:13 PM
What's ridiculous about this is that most setup situations are just as critical as closing situations. Koch can't close so we're going to start putting him into one run games in the 7th or 8th?! Hopefully this is a nice way of saying mop up duty.
That's true but there's something about the word "close" that gives pitchers the willies. Koch might be able to have success as a setup man. If he's eased into situations that count, I won't have a problem with it. But it's far too risky and potentially damaging to an already messed up psyche to try right now.

RedPinStripes
06-14-2004, 09:24 PM
Forget about talking about when Koch may be ready to close. We have a guy out there now who has closed his whole career. Not in MLB, but so far he fools a lot of people with that nasty **** he throws. I like the energetic little japanese closer . He could catch on real qucik with the fans too. All he has to do is close games without loading the bases and get nutty when the game is over. lol

beckett21
06-14-2004, 09:27 PM
That's true but there's something about the word "close" that gives pitchers the willies. Koch might be able to have success as a setup man.
He sucked in any and every capacity last year, IIRC.

:bkoch:

"Hey, at least I can admit that I suck!"

ND_Sox_Fan
06-14-2004, 09:28 PM
I have always heard that pitching in the 7th or even the 8th is nothing like pitching the 9th. I heard some pitchers would rather pitch in the 8th with a 1 run lead than the 9th with a 3 run lead. There has to be something to that. Some guys want no part of closing a game simply because of the preassure. I think that Kotch could be a very good 7th inning pitcher.
I am going to go with there is a difference between pitching and throwing. Koch just throws, prays it goes over the plate, and if it does - hammered. I agree with Beckett here - let him go throw when the difference is 10.

ode to veeck
06-14-2004, 09:29 PM
First things first. If I was Ozzie Id say, "You better shave that nasty thing you call a beard or your never pitching again."
LMAO! He reminds me of Goat Boy from SNL ... my family, especially our grown daughters, love to comment on how ugly that thing is ... no wonder the batters can't take him seriously!

RedPinStripes
06-14-2004, 09:36 PM
LMAO! He reminds me of Goat Boy from SNL ... my family, especially our grown daughters, love to comment on how ugly that thing is ... no wonder the batters can't take him seriously!:flameswing
"I could take billy deep, but i laugh too hard at that assclown and that thing on his chin. And remember, they dont call me slowswing for nothing. Clr, where ya at babe?"

I had to . :bandance:

TornLabrum
06-14-2004, 09:41 PM
One big difference between a set-up man and the closer seems to be (for some reason I can't comprehend) that managers won't think twice about pulling a set-up man if he sucks. On the other hand, they'll sit and watch a closer get shelled and lose the game so he doesn't lose confidence in himself. Go figure.

ode to veeck
06-14-2004, 09:48 PM
"I could take billy deep, but i laugh too hard at that assclown and that thing on his chin. And remember, they dont call me slowswing for nothing. Clr, where ya at babe?"
Good material for a future Sox-N-Roll skit during an inning break ...

OEO Magglio
06-14-2004, 10:39 PM
One big difference between a set-up man and the closer seems to be (for some reason I can't comprehend) that managers won't think twice about pulling a set-up man if he sucks. On the other hand, they'll sit and watch a closer get shelled and lose the game so he doesn't lose confidence in himself. Go figure.Good point, I didn't even think about that. I guess it's worth a shot to throw him out there in the 7th inning before damaso because there aren't many other options and then if he gets into some trouble, you could always bring damaso in to clean up his mess. This team still needs one more bullpen arm so hopefully we won't even have to worry about koch.

LongLiveFisk
06-14-2004, 10:50 PM
If this clown was making $800,000 rather than 5 million, this wouldn't even be up for debate. His ass would have been gone already.

It is a damn shame money is playing a role in this situation. You don't do the job, you usually don't have a job anymore. Demoting him to a teeny bit less important job is a crock of poop.

JR, KW and/or Ozzie needs to wake up and just relase him. He will do no good. Even if he does start performing a little better...NOBODY should have confidence in him come possible playoff time.

Do you want Billy Koch closing out game 7? Me neither.

Do you want Billy Koch of 2002 closing game 7? Me neither.
I agree completely with everything you've said here. In fact, I asked the question last week in the chatroom of whether or not the Sox should release him outright and it was a unanimous "yes". The way I figure it is, they are going to have to pay him this money either way (correct me if I'm wrong on that) and you might as well not have him hurt you any more than he already has. If not, what are you going to do, just put him in for mop-up duty when we're up or down by 8 runs? And how many times has that situation actually presented itself this year?

I must be the eternal pessimist on this one, but I just don't see this guy turning it around. If he proves me wrong, great, but I'm sure as hell not holding my breath for it.

RedPinStripes
06-14-2004, 11:00 PM
Good material for a future Sox-N-Roll skit during an inning break ...
Need to build the station again. lol
:hawk
"They gone!"

South Side
06-14-2004, 11:10 PM
I say, we just let Koch be our 5th starter and see how he does there... Killing 2 birds with one stone, no?

Irishsox1
06-14-2004, 11:51 PM
I never had faith in Koch and never will. I always knew that Koch was a problem and that it needed to be resolved, but I always thought it was going to rear its ugly head in August against the Twins. Now that the Sox have fixed the closer problem in June, the Sox can get to fixing the 5th starter problem. Confidence in the Sox is high on my end once Koch was removed from the closer position.

mdep524
06-15-2004, 03:02 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-toni13.html

the "spend what it takes" cubtimes article also had this quote:

"He also plans to keep Billy Koch in a setup role 'until he gets back on track and gets his confidence back. As soon as he does, he'll close again,' Guillen said. 'He still throws in the 90s, and if he throws strikes, he'll be fine. It's like everyone in the big leagues -- if you don't throw strikes, you'll be crushed.' "
I still don't understand WHY Billy Koch necessarily NEEDS to get the closers job back "when he gets back on track." WHY Ozzie WHY????

I am so worried about this- the insistance on proving Koch needs to pitch in big situations. IF he starts pitching marginally better (and statistically, how could he not?), everyone (read: Ozzie and KW) will start making noise late in the season (cruch time) about him getting his "closer" job back and it will be nothing but bad. :(:

Chisoxfn
06-15-2004, 03:05 AM
If Koch is throwing strikes, he's not that bad of an option. Up until the past week or so, he was limiting hitters well under .250 and I think even now hitters are hitting like .260 off him, which isn't too shabby considering.

The flaw is he walks so many guys and is always pitching behind. I'm not going to defend the guy, but if he gets his mechanics straigthened and throws strikes (don't hold your breath) then I have no problem with him having a shot at earning the job.

Hopefully Shingo or whoever becomes the closer holds the job down and does an awesome job.

The Cheat
06-15-2004, 03:14 AM
Billy Koch has been brought in and recieved two inheritted runners this year. BOTH SCORED. BEFORE ONE OUT WAS RECORDED.


That is just from memory. I can only recall one situation this year where he inheritted runners.

mdep524
06-15-2004, 03:41 AM
Billy Koch has been brought in and recieved two inheritted runners this year. BOTH SCORED. BEFORE ONE OUT WAS RECORDED.


That is just from memory. I can only recall one situation this year where he inheritted runners.
Off the top of my head, he also allowed inherited runners to score on Opening Day vs. KC. I agree though, I think Koch would do even worse in tight "set up" situations with inherited runners than he does getting a clean slate (and more margin for error) to start an inning.

All things considered, I just see Koch as a useless pitcher. In general this isn't a terrible thing. I mean, a lot of people can't pitch. Rick White, Carlos Castillo, etc. The problem is that the Sox INSIST that Koch pitch- or work on things so that he can pitch- in big situations. It's OK that he is not Eric Gagne, just release him or relegate him to mop up duty and move on with life. It's OK to admit mistakes!!

The Cheat
06-15-2004, 03:57 AM
Here's a link to Baseballporspectus.com's relievers report. The statistics may be hard to understand at first, but if you click the headings, you can get a definition for each category.

http://baseballprospectus.com/statistics/rrereport04.html (scroll down to get to the sox)

Some things that can be determined from this report:

Cliff Politte and Billy Koch have been bad. (worse than thier ERA's show) They have all been bailed out by thier Bullpen mates.

Neal Cotts has not had any help from his bullpen mates. Most of his Bequethed runners score.

Mike Jackson and Cliff Politte have been bad with other peoples inherited runners.

Neal Cotts and Damaso Marte are most often put into the toughest spots (men on base, RISP, etc)

Shingo has been underused.

White_Sock
06-15-2004, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Need to build the station again. lol
:hawk
"They gone!"Do you have an archive of the Sox-n-roll broadcasts? I never got to hear 'em, but my pops tells me they were hilarious.

SSN721
06-15-2004, 07:02 AM
The fact that Koch will be put in any position other than mop-up duty at this point really scares me. I just wish that management would just acknoledge their mistake, cut their losses, pay out his contract and bench him. I dont understand the logic in trottin him out in meaningful situations when you never know what pitcher you will get. He fooled me earlier this year. I thought he might be turning a corner and become effective again. I always hope any player on our team will flourish so I hope he regains confidence and ability again I am just rather skeptical as I am sure we all are. :(: