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Philo-Sox-er
06-13-2004, 10:31 AM
Last night, after Frank hit his second home run, I saw him in a way I haven't seen in a log time. He was having fun, playing baseball and being on a team. The other teammates, too, were having fun. I like what I see!

RKMeibalane
06-13-2004, 10:35 AM
Last night, after Frank hit his second home run, I saw him in a way I haven't seen in a log time. He was having fun, playing baseball and being on a team. The other teammates, too, were having fun. I like what I see!
It's been this way for the entire season. The players are having more fun than they have in years, and Ozzie is the reason why. He has brought new energy to the clubhouse, and he has earned the respect of his players. It's much easier to play for someone you respect than it is to play for someone you don't. I think that's the biggest difference between this season's team and the Sox teams seen in the past few seasons.

SoxFan76
06-13-2004, 10:40 AM
Last night, after Frank hit his second home run, I saw him in a way I haven't seen in a log time. He was having fun, playing baseball and being on a team. The other teammates, too, were having fun. I like what I see!
I saw the Sportscenter highlights, and Frank looked like a little kid. He was playing for the camera and everything. Great to see.

jabrch
06-13-2004, 10:49 AM
It must have taken a terrible GM and a cheap owner to hire such a lousy manager.

Brian26
06-13-2004, 11:13 AM
Last night, after Frank hit his second home run, I saw him in a way I haven't seen in a log time. He was having fun, playing baseball and being on a team. The other teammates, too, were having fun. I like what I see!
I only caught the last 2 1/2 innings of the game, but that was really a magical moment. Seeing Frank and Willie playing to the camera was really great.

mmmmmbeeer
06-13-2004, 11:23 AM
I only caught the last 2 1/2 innings of the game, but that was really a magical moment. Seeing Frank and Willie playing to the camera was really great.
yeah, I've noticed that Willie and Frank get along really well. I've also noticed that Willie has become EXTREMELY selective at the plate compared to last season and the earlier part of this season. Ya think Big Frank might be dropping some knowledge on the little man, being the leader that he's so often been criticized for not being?

i think from a psychological point of view, last night's win was huge. Big crowd, a win, but most importantly Shingo. I really think that the entire team got some sense of relief (no pun intended) knowing that they could relax a bit with a 2 run lead in the 9th. As fans we've known that closer was one of three main problems with this team. If we're excited about possibly finding a patch for one of those holes, I'd imagine that the actual team is ecstatic, quite a boost of confidence going into today's game.

chunk
06-13-2004, 12:37 PM
I only caught the last 2 1/2 innings of the game, but that was really a magical moment. Seeing Frank and Willie playing to the camera was really great.
I didn't see the game, what were they doing?

RKMeibalane
06-13-2004, 12:41 PM
I didn't see the game, what were they doing?
After Frank's second home run, he came back into the dugout and shouted a greeting for his mother to the camera. He said, "That's for my momma back in Columbus!" A few moments later, Willie walked up to the camera and said, "No, my momma!" It was hilarious.

thezeker
06-13-2004, 12:47 PM
It must have taken a terrible GM and a cheap owner to hire such a lousy manager.
Thank You!!!
So many of KW and JR's moves were criticized before this season began.

Harris, Ozzie, & Shingo to name a few!!

Maybe just maybe thet are learning from their mistakes and they do have a plan to bring us a championship.

We criticize when things go wrong. It's only right to give them credit when they make good moves and Ozzie particularly looks like a BRILLIANT move!!!!!!!!

jamteh
06-13-2004, 08:59 PM
Agreed. I think Ozzie's done a heck of a job so far. He's made some mistakes here and there, but, overall, he's done and outstanding job. Now it's time for KW to step up to the plate and bring us a stud pitcher.

mike squires
06-13-2004, 10:14 PM
I don't know how many times this year I've seen Big Frank with a smile on his face when he DID NOT know the camera is on him...

woodenleg
06-13-2004, 10:39 PM
yeah, I've noticed that Willie and Frank get along really well. I've also noticed that Willie has become EXTREMELY selective at the plate compared to last season and the earlier part of this season. Ya think Big Frank might be dropping some knowledge on the little man, being the leader that he's so often been criticized for not being?

i think from a psychological point of view, last night's win was huge. Big crowd, a win, but most importantly Shingo. I really think that the entire team got some sense of relief (no pun intended) knowing that they could relax a bit with a 2 run lead in the 9th. As fans we've known that closer was one of three main problems with this team. If we're excited about possibly finding a patch for one of those holes, I'd imagine that the actual team is ecstatic, quite a boost of confidence going into today's game.

Yeah, in an interview, Willie said that Frank & Maggs were giving him advice.

Vernam
06-13-2004, 11:08 PM
I only caught the last 2 1/2 innings of the game, but that was really a magical moment. Seeing Frank and Willie playing to the camera was really great.I have to admit to having thought Frank was a big part of the team's troubles the past couple of years, and not just 'cause his numbers were down. There clearly was a toxic atmosphere around the Sox, and people tended to point at him. In retrospect, though, I really wonder if Manuel wasn't scapegoating Frank. He seemed to pick fights w/ the big guy, as a way to prove he was in charge. The media clearly played up the fact that Frank wasn't a leader, wasn't a good teammate, etc. Ozzie's arrival seems to have made clear that, if the clubhouse was toxic and lacked leadership, that started with Manuel.

But from the day he reported to spring training this year -- when, basically, he could have taken a free shot at Ozzie and did nothing of the sort -- Frank has shown he wants to be on the Sox, wants to win a championship here, wants to go into the HoF as a Sox. Either he's undergone a miraculous transformation, or he was never such a bad guy all along. And some people (including me) maybe owe him an apology.

Of course, BA .299, 16 HR, OBP .463, and SLG .631 tends to adjust all our attitudes. :gulp:

VC

RKMeibalane
06-13-2004, 11:20 PM
I have to admit to having thought Frank was a big part of the team's troubles the past couple of years, and not just 'cause his numbers were down. There clearly was a toxic atmosphere around the Sox, and people tended to point at him. In retrospect, though, I really wonder if Manuel wasn't scapegoating Frank. He seemed to pick fights w/ the big guy, as a way to prove he was in charge. The media clearly played up the fact that Frank wasn't a leader, wasn't a good teammate, etc. Ozzie's arrival seems to have made clear that, if the clubhouse was toxic and lacked leadership, that started with Manuel.

But from the day he reported to spring training this year -- when, basically, he could have taken a free shot at Ozzie and did nothing of the sort -- Frank has shown he wants to be on the Sox, wants to win a championship here, wants to go into the HoF as a Sox. Either he's undergone a miraculous transformation, or he was never such a bad guy all along. And some people (including me) maybe owe him an apology.

Of course, BA of .299, 16 HR, OBP .463, and SLG .631 tends to adjust all our attitudes. :gulp:

VC
I think Manuel was a major source of problems with this team over the past few seasons. His run-ins with Frank were the most prominent example of the tension in the Sox clubhouse, but JM had problems with other players, as well. Jose Valentin stated several times last season that Manuel's constant tinkering was hurting the team. It was also obvious that Manuel had no clue how to handle a pitching staff.

Everything has changed now that Ozzie is in charge. Frank is happy, and the rest of the team is having fun playing. That wasn't the case last season. Too many times in 2003, the Sox seemed to be "going through the motions." It was almost as if they didn't want to play, and I think a lot of this apathy can be traced back to Jerry Manuel.

elrod
06-13-2004, 11:48 PM
I think Ozzie is doing a superb job. But how many people thought Manuel was a great manager in 2000? I know I did. Did Manuel go from being a great, quiet motivator to an apathetic loser or was he the same guy in 2000 as he was in 2001-2003? Did he wear out his welcome or did the players just fail on their own account? I think Ozzie has made the clubhouse atmosphere much better, especially after a loss. It's great to hear how Ozzie tells the guys just to move on after a bad loss so they don't fall flat. After the Koch blown save in Oakland they went up to Seattle and took care of Garcia. After the second blown save they came home and put six runs up on the Phillies in the first inning. Last year, either of those games could have led to a collective funk (think July 4). So I think Ozzie has done a great job. But Manuel seemed to have done a similar job in 2000. They just kept rolling, getting late-inning wins. And when they lost they would bounce right back. No long slumps, even as the starting pitching got hurt down the stretch. I wonder how much of it is Ozzie, how much of it is the departure of Manuel, and how much of it is something else.

owensmouth
06-14-2004, 03:08 AM
Do you remember when Manuel met the team wearing a bellhop's outfit? It was in Detroit while JM was serving his punishment for the fight. Back then Jerry seemed to be in sync with the players.

The past couple of years he just seemed to be a lump on one end of the bench.

I have had my doubts about all the bull"""" I read about Frank's bad attitude. Much of it was, I think, just someone trying to sell papers. I also believe that Frank has finally overcome the injury that he suffered in 2001. It took him two years and a lot of hard work.

TheBull19
06-14-2004, 05:32 AM
. But how many people thought Manuel was a great manager in 2000? I know I did. Did Manuel go from being a great, quiet motivator to an apathetic loser or was he the same guy in 2000 as he was in 2001-2003? Did he wear out his welcome or did the players just fail on their own account?
Any manager who constantly criticizes individual players to the media is a bum. I didn't have any problem w/ him after 2000, I have to admit, but in retrospect - the reason the sox were so good that year was because Thomas put his pimp hat on, all the young hitters came into their own and we had pretty good pitching. All Manuel did was wreck that pretty good pitching staff and watch all his talented hitters rake.

SSN721
06-14-2004, 06:18 AM
I think it is great to see the chemistry of the team this year. They definitely looked changed. Especially Franks jovial attitude, it seems like everytime he is caught randomly with a camera from afar or close in the dugout he is always smiling and joking around with someone. The relationship that he and Willie seemed to have developed is great too. It is paying off big time as it was commented before, Willie is definintely much more selective at the plate and is really seeing the ball better and drawing walks when he is not hitting. I guess we wont know til next year if it is just a change in leadership and one year wonder or if it is actually Ozzies style on its own that will sustain this attitude. I am leaning more toward Ozzies style but I guess that is just based on optimisn more than anything else. :cool:

Dadawg_77
06-14-2004, 11:01 AM
One thing JM may have taken some of his style for Felipe Alou, who is known for being aloof in the clubhouse, while Ozzie is anything but aloof. I would take JM handling of game situations with Ozzie's clubhouse personalities if one could combine the two. The Sox are taking too many stupid risks currently in my taste. And as one person remind us, most of us were calling Jerry a great hire in June 2000, then again anything could have been better then guy he replaced.

rahulsekhar
06-14-2004, 11:09 AM
I think Ozzie is doing a superb job. But how many people thought Manuel was a great manager in 2000? I know I did. Did Manuel go from being a great, quiet motivator to an apathetic loser or was he the same guy in 2000 as he was in 2001-2003? Did he wear out his welcome or did the players just fail on their own account? I think Ozzie has made the clubhouse atmosphere much better, especially after a loss. It's great to hear how Ozzie tells the guys just to move on after a bad loss so they don't fall flat. After the Koch blown save in Oakland they went up to Seattle and took care of Garcia. After the second blown save they came home and put six runs up on the Phillies in the first inning. Last year, either of those games could have led to a collective funk (think July 4). So I think Ozzie has done a great job. But Manuel seemed to have done a similar job in 2000. They just kept rolling, getting late-inning wins. And when they lost they would bounce right back. No long slumps, even as the starting pitching got hurt down the stretch. I wonder how much of it is Ozzie, how much of it is the departure of Manuel, and how much of it is something else.

Or was 2000 the result of a somewhat fluky half-year when everyting fell intoplace. Personally, I dont' believe Manuel was ever the manager he was made out to be by the media. Same with Dick Jauron who IIRC was the 2001 NFL coach of the year, but was basically a chump who couldn't recognize and address glaring deficiencies in game planning of his assistants.

The fact that the Sox came out of nowhere to win in 2K (despite being .500 in the 2d half) gave manuel that COY award, and that then kept him afloat much longer than he should have been. Someone put it best in another thread - "It's interesting to note that the onyl years when Frank wasn't Frank were when he was with Jerry". Before 1998, Frank was not considered moody, temperamental, or a bad teammate. The worst that could be said about him was that he followed his own stats a lot, but not to the detrmient of the team. Then along cam Jerry and for whatever reason made Frank his whipping boy and decided he needed to poke at him a lot - exactly the wrong approach with a guy like Frank.

IMO - if we have a manager who let's Frank alone for the past 7 years, we're in the middle of a big national discussion as to whether Frank's the greatest hitter of all time. But because of Manuel, it's only a debate as to whether he's a first ballot HOFer.

FarWestChicago
06-14-2004, 12:33 PM
I would take JM handling of game situations...OK, you're taking your hatred of KW too far now. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif