PDA

View Full Version : Shingo


The Cheat
06-13-2004, 01:49 AM
Just wanted to be the first to say that

Shingo Rocks. :buttrock:

eurotrash35
06-13-2004, 01:52 AM
WOOOOOO!!!!

I was going to post the same thing! Shingo fan club #1 :supernana:

TornLabrum
06-13-2004, 01:54 AM
I was at the game tonight, and all I can say is that this is the first time I felt secure with a lead when the closer came in all year.

eurotrash35
06-13-2004, 01:57 AM
I was at the game tonight, and all I can say is that this is the first time I felt secure with a lead when the closer came in all year.
What was the crowd doing as he was coming in? Did he get a lot of support?

The Cheat
06-13-2004, 02:00 AM
What was the crowd doing as he was coming in? Did he get a lot of support?
He got a Standing O when he came running in from the dugout.

eurotrash35
06-13-2004, 02:02 AM
He got a Standing O when he came running in from the dugout.
Man, I wish I could have been there. Every game I've been to this year I've wanted to have a Shingo sighting, but it never happened. Hopefully he'll be closing games out from now on.

TornLabrum
06-13-2004, 02:02 AM
He got a Standing O when he came running in from the dugout.
It was great to be there. As soon as any group of people figured out that it was him, they spontaneously rose to their feet to cheer him. When he got the first two easy outs, the "Shin-GO, Shin-GO" chants started. Great stuff!

Thunderstruck30
06-13-2004, 02:10 AM
Great move by bench coach Harold Baines to put in the guy that should be closing every game. Shingo's the man!!!

TornLabrum
06-13-2004, 02:19 AM
Great move by bench coach Harold Baines to put in the guy that should be closing every game. Shingo's the man!!!
You know, I have a sneaky suspicion that it wasn't Harold's decision to do that. In all my years of following baseball, I can never remember any manager other than Jerry Manuel who didn't run the club from behind the scenes after being thrown out of a game.

pudge
06-13-2004, 03:30 AM
Whoever it was, I'm just glad suffering through Koch's disaster in Seattle was all worth it in the end.

lowesox
06-13-2004, 03:55 AM
Yeah. I'm starting to think Shingo deserves a decent look as the long-term closer. I think many a baseball team would be improved if Manager's gave spots based more on performance and less on past/salary.

nasox
06-13-2004, 04:16 AM
It was a pretty exciting, loud, and overall good crowd, too.

fquaye149
06-13-2004, 04:17 AM
Yeah. I'm starting to think Shingo deserves a decent look as the long-term closer. I think many a baseball team would be improved if Manager's gave spots based more on performance and less on past/salary.
Hm. That seems presumptious.


Remember, before Billy blew that west-coast trip he had a pretty good showing at closer this season.

Meanwhile, Shingo was erratic during spring training and in his first few appearances

And Damaso got railed in his first outing

So while Koch was, yes, still Koch, but surprisingly effective, who would you have had close? Or would you have taken away the spot from a steady Koch as soon as Shingo BEGAN to feel comfortable in American baseball? If you ask me, that would have been a much worse way to run a bullpen than the way Ozzie was doing it. Let's compare yours and his methods:

Ozzie's

Stick with who was the best out of the three (koch, shingo, marte . . .and this is ignoring the fact that no one really thought shingo could close until about a month ago) coming out of spring training and stay with him until it was clear he couldn't get the job done

YOURs, or rather, the NON-OZZIE

Assume Koch can't close (though he was able to rack up double digit save numbers) and go with Marte (who got ravaged at KC) or Shingo (who got ravaged in NY and in spring training). . .ORRRR go with Koch but as soon as an opportunity presents itself to replace him, DO IT, thus inspiring the impression that you have no confidence in your closer and that at the first sign of trouble he could be replaced.


PERSONALLY i think ozzie's is the better method, and has little to do with salary and more with baseball, but it is certainly open to debate.

But I think one thing we both can agree on is: I'm glad Shingo's effective and the Billy Koch we know from last year is not on the mound in the ninth inning.

Unregistered
06-13-2004, 05:11 AM
So while Koch was, yes, still Koch, but surprisingly effective, who would you have had close? Or would you have taken away the spot from a steady Koch as soon as Shingo BEGAN to feel comfortable in American baseball? If you ask me, that would have been a much worse way to run a bullpen than the way Ozzie was doing it. Let's compare yours and his methods:

Ozzie's

Stick with who was the best out of the three (koch, shingo, marte . . .and this is ignoring the fact that no one really thought shingo could close until about a month ago) coming out of spring training and stay with him until it was clear he couldn't get the job done

YOURs, or rather, the NON-OZZIE

Assume Koch can't close (though he was able to rack up double digit save numbers) and go with Marte (who got ravaged at KC) or Shingo (who got ravaged in NY and in spring training). . .ORRRR go with Koch but as soon as an opportunity presents itself to replace him, DO IT, thus inspiring the impression that you have no confidence in your closer and that at the first sign of trouble he could be replaced.
I was never convinced of Koch being "steady" by any means. He was shaky in every appearance save 1 or 2 easy innings. Anyone paying attention knew that it was just a matter of time before he really started getting shelled (as evidenced last week)
PERSONALLY i think ozzie's is the better method, and has little to do with salary and more with baseball, but it is certainly open to debate.

But I think one thing we both can agree on is: I'm glad Shingo's effective and the Billy Koch we know from last year is not on the mound in the ninth inning. Problem with that is Ozzie stating that once Koch gets "back on track" after pitching however many innings of relief (hopefully mop up duty), Ozzie plans to put him right back in the closers role. Now, I don't know if that's just media posturing, but if Ozzie DOES eventually put him back in the closers role, it would only make sense that it is because of the fact that the guy is making 6 million dollars this year (or whatever it is he's making).Shingo and Marte are BOTH 10x more reliable as closers to me than that apologizing moron.
Here's to Koch getting back the closers role... next year... with the Newark Bears. :gulp:

fquaye149
06-13-2004, 05:20 AM
I was never convinced of Koch being "steady" by any means. He was shaky in every appearance save 1 or 2 easy innings. Anyone paying attention knew that it was just a matter of time before he really started getting shelled (as evidenced last week)
Problem with that is Ozzie stating that once Koch gets "back on track" after pitching however many innings of relief (hopefully mop up duty), Ozzie plans to put him right back in the closers role. Now, I don't know if that's just media posturing, but if Ozzie DOES eventually put him back in the closers role, it would only make sense that it is because of the fact that the guy is making 6 million dollars this year (or whatever it is he's making).Shingo and Marte are BOTH 10x more reliable as closers to me than that apologizing moron.
Here's to Koch getting back the closers role... next year... with the Newark Bears. :gulp:
I agree with your points in theory. My point is, as a manager, it's hard to take away the closer position from koch unless someone EARNS it or he LOSES it. I don't think he LOST the position until the west coast trip, though I agree with the argument that Shingo EARNED it a while ago. There are, however, a few people who Still think Shingo can't be a great closer. Even I'm not convinced that hitters won't figure him out after a while

Unregistered
06-13-2004, 05:32 AM
I agree with your points in theory. My point is, as a manager, it's hard to take away the closer position from koch unless someone EARNS it or he LOSES it. I don't think he LOST the position until the west coast trip, though I agree with the argument that Shingo EARNED it a while ago. There are, however, a few people who Still think Shingo can't be a great closer. Even I'm not convinced that hitters won't figure him out after a while
Agreed. I'm just hoping Ozzie lets Shingo LOSE the closers role before handing it back to Koch after he pitches 2 scoreless innings in a blowout vs. Detroit or something...

fquaye149
06-13-2004, 05:34 AM
^True. If that does happen, I will jump on your bandwagon and call for equal treatment for unequal pay :)

Unregistered
06-13-2004, 05:37 AM
^True. If that does happen, I will jump on your bandwagon and call for equal treatment for unequal pay :)
That's the American way! :cool:

BigEdWalsh
06-13-2004, 07:56 AM
Shingo rules!!

I wasn't even nervous when he pitched the 9th and was that ever a refreshing change.
When Shingo got hit pretty well in Spring Training I chalked it up to his having alot to adjust to. When the Yankees rocked him I figured he was probably nervous as hell. But Shingo has adjusted and has shown why he was a stud closer in Japan. This guy is awesome. Finally, he got to do what he does best, close a game....and he did it with ease. Shingo! Shingo! Shingo!
:D: :supernana: :D:

Nick@Nite
06-13-2004, 08:23 AM
I'm all for Shingo doing his thing... but it's just a matter of time before hitters adjust to his off speed frisbies... which in turn he'll have to re-adjust to hitters adjustments.

Just look at what hitters are doing to Estaban's cutter this year.

Btw, the new layout looks great, but where is the spell check button?

idseer
06-13-2004, 08:46 AM
I'm all for Shingo doing his thing... but it's just a matter of time before hitters adjust to his off speed frisbies... which in turn he'll have to re-adjust to hitters adjustments.

Just look at what hitters are doing to Estaban's cutter this year.

Btw, the new layout looks great, but where is the spell check button?
i really don't see the logic in this claim. if he'd had no history before i could understand this speculation. the fact is he saved 260 games in japan and it doesn't appear many batters 'adjusted' to him ... unless you don't think the japanese people are capable of adjustments over a 10 year period?

it isn't a matter of time imo. it's a matter of talent.

Nick@Nite
06-13-2004, 09:02 AM
i really don't see the logic in this claim. if he'd had no history before i could understand this speculation. the fact is he saved 260 games in japan and it doesn't appear many batters 'adjusted' to him ... unless you don't think the japanese people are capable of adjustments over a 10 year period?

it isn't a matter of time imo. it's a matter of talent.
A batter not having success against a pitcher will make adjustments in some way, to have a successful at bat. If they don't, they'll be out of a job. Once those adjustments are made, and if the batter starts having success, word spreads quickly and it's up to the pitcher to make adjustments... Hawk mentions this all the time on the air.

There was no implying that the Japanese are beind the times.

idseer
06-13-2004, 09:14 AM
A batter not having success against a pitcher will make adjustments in some way, to have a successful at bat. If they don't, they'll be out of a job. Once those adjustments are made, and if the batter starts having success, word spreads quickly and it's up to the pitcher to make adjustments... Hawk mentions this all the time on the air.

There was no implying that the Japanese are beind the times.i made the japanese comment because when i've discussed this previously the argument was brought up that japanese baseball is unequivilent to major league ball, not to suggest you were slighting the japanese.

in any case, you didn't really deal with my remark. if the japanese couldn't 'adjust' in a career's worth of appearances .... why would you assume major leaguers will?

ps. hawk thoughts don't impress me at all.

Nick@Nite
06-13-2004, 09:21 AM
ps. hawk thoughts don't impress me at all.
Lol... duly noted! :D:

HomerCoach
06-13-2004, 09:37 AM
I can never remember any manager other than Jerry Manuel who didn't run the club from behind the scenes after being thrown out of a game. :jerry

"A rule is a rule man"

Nick@Nite
06-13-2004, 09:38 AM
i made the japanese comment because when i've discussed this previously the argument was brought up that japanese baseball is unequivilent to major league ball, not to suggest you were slighting the japanese.

in any case, you didn't really deal with my remark. if the japanese couldn't 'adjust' in a career's worth of appearances .... why would you assume major leaguers will?

ps. hawk thoughts don't impress me at all.
I fall in the category in saying that Japanese, Korean, Cuban, winter ball, etc., are not the equivalent to major league baseball... but ball players everywhere should be smart enough to make some form of an adjustment if they're not having success against a particular pitcher (or vise versa).

Right now, Shingo is having success. With all his accomplishments in Japan, he's probably smart enough to know to not change a thing until batters start making adjustments and having success, which will more than likely happen when teams get another look at him. It'll be up to Shingo how he responds when that happens.

Too me, Estaban is the perfect example. Batters have definatley adjusted to his cutter, though it doesn't reflect in his record.

SEALgep
06-13-2004, 09:46 AM
Hawk was excited as anyone last night. You could tell with every out he was pleased as punch. Good for Shingo, he pitched great. 1-2-3 seems like a fantasy, but has now hopefully become a permanent reality.

vegyrex
06-13-2004, 09:46 AM
Domo Arigato Mr. Takatsu! :smile:

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2004/04/24/JyOzXQRU.jpg

NonetheLoaiza
06-13-2004, 10:34 AM
I think if Shingo has 2 or 3 more outings the same as last night, and they have to consider putting him in the closer's role. I understand Koch is making 6+ million, cmon, Shingo could be the answer

elrod
06-13-2004, 12:43 PM
Shingo has been lights out ever since early April. Saying he wasn't ready to close is like saying Joe Nathan isn't ready to close for the Twins because he had one blown save in the first week. Ridiculous. Shingo has been ready for a while. And Koch has shown exactly what he showed last year: inability to get hitters out. His fastball is straight. His velocity is not overpowering. His command is inconsistent. And now, disturbingly, he's lost his nerve. He hasn't had "closer stuff" all year. I understand not yanking him until he blows one - and he hadn't blown one in a long time before the West Coast trip. So as for your larger point, the decision to wait until now isn't a bad one. But sadly it's hard to see how it could have played out differently. Koch has not been a major league closer since he arrived.

patbooyah
06-13-2004, 12:59 PM
Just wanted to be the first to say that

Shingo Rocks. :buttrock:


WOOOOOO!!!!

I was going to post the same thing! Shingo fan club #1 :supernana:

not so fast gentlemen. i want a little credit where credit is due. who remembers this:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1771